I18N/Meetings/2007-11-29

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I18N project Features Meeting for F9 2007-11-29 Minutes

Agenda

  • Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters
  • IM Desktop integration
  • Fonts
  • Thai fonts and support
  • new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts
  • additional fonts for current languages
  • Other proposals

Log

15:00:22 ---	juhp has changed the topic to: Fedora I18N project Features Meeting start | Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule
15:01:19 <juhp>	ok, welcome to the I18N project Features meeting!
15:04:37 *	warren always thinks "zombo.com" whenever he sees "welcome"
15:05:01 <juhp>	hey warren!
15:05:11 -->	keimoto_co (i=keimoto@nat/redhat/x-e4419f3a828a7375) has joined #fedora-meeting
15:05:34 <juhp>	hi tagoh3, pravins, keimoto_co
15:05:49 <keimoto_co>	juhp☺ ih
15:05:49 <warren>	I wasn't planning on being here, but I guess I'll stick around
15:05:51 <tagoh3>	warren: hmm, no flash plugins is installed here ;)
15:05:54 <warren>	is there an agenda list?
15:06:07 <warren>	tagoh3, zombo.com is so awesome that it is worth installing flash plugin
15:06:21 <tagoh3>	aha
15:06:28 <pravins>	hi juhp
15:06:44 <juhp>	warren: agenda - well we have some potential features but no other agenda than that
15:07:12 <juhp>	posted on fedora-i18n list - I didn't get round to putting the meeting details in the wiki...
15:07:29 -->	dychen_ (i=dingyich@nat/redhat/x-a5e2e9625c7a0847) has joined #fedora-meeting
15:07:42 <juhp>	Some of the current possible features we are considering include:
15:07:42 <juhp>	- Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters
15:07:42 <juhp>	- IM Desktop integration
15:07:42 <juhp>	- Fonts
15:07:42 <juhp>	  - Thai fonts and support
15:07:42 <juhp>	  - new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts
15:07:43 <juhp>	  - additional fonts for current languages
15:07:43 <juhp>	Other suggestions and proposals are most welcome.
15:08:00 <juhp>	hi dychen_
15:08:11 <dychen_>	Hi juhp
15:08:25 <warren>	suggestion: Package <non-Free but free Japanese font> for <non-free repo>
15:08:37 <paragn>	hi
15:08:40 <warren>	but this is off-topic
15:09:21 >warren<	for livna?
15:10:17 <pravins>	yes we will definitely get some additional fonts for indic scripts
15:10:44 <pravins>	which are under GPL
15:12:44 <juhp>	that is good
15:14:14 <keimoto_co>	waiting for the wqy heiti into fedora also :)
15:14:30 <juhp>	keimoto_co: it is already there no?
15:14:41 <keimoto_co>	f9?
15:14:49 <juhp>	and f8 and f7 iirc
15:15:08 <juhp>	it was added after f8 was released afaicr
15:15:19 <keimoto_co>	oic
15:15:41 -->	phuang_office (n=phuang@211.103.237.35) has joined #fedora-meeting
15:15:50 <juhp>	or am I confusing with another font..
15:16:12 <keimoto_co>	I got a enhancement request for a filename encoding converter dev.
15:16:23 -->	huzheng (n=huzheng@211.103.237.35) has joined #fedora-meeting
15:16:40 <juhp>	keimoto_co: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/wqy-zenhei-fonts
15:16:58 <juhp>	keimoto_co: oh?
15:17:33 *	keimoto_co 's gonna try. (off-topic)
15:17:47 <juhp>	anyway shall we start with the features on the list so far - there were not many more suggestions posted to the list
15:18:33 <keimoto_co>	let's
15:19:05 <juhp>	* Handwriting recognition for Chinese characters
15:19:45 <juhp>	dychen_ has been working on this for a while and has some nice code would should be released soon
15:20:36 <juhp>	so a lot of the work has already been done but I think it would be nice to list it in the features to give more attention to it
15:20:56 <dychen_>	One of the problems is the name of it.
15:20:57 <juhp>	we're hoping it will have better accuracy than tomoe
15:21:11 <juhp>	dychen_: right - still need a name for it :)
15:21:33 <juhp>	but guess the name is not needed for the feature proposal but anyway
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15:22:11 <juhp>	dychen_: are you happy to write a feature proposal for it?
15:22:39 <dychen_>	Sure
15:23:17 <juhp>	dychen_: ok cool
15:23:37 <dychen_>	Are there any template or guideline  for me to follow?
15:23:51 <juhp>	probably good to look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/FeatureList for that
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15:25:42 <dychen_>	Thanks juhp.
15:26:55 <juhp>	* IM Desktop integration
15:27:09 <dychen_>	I'll finish it before next team meeting.
15:27:53 <juhp>	great
15:28:16 <juhp>	dychen_: probably you can make a draft page first before submitting it
15:28:38 <warren>	IM Desktop integration, we really need a full wiki page describing the proposed changes
15:28:43 <warren>	this effects more than just i18n
15:29:03 <warren>	we have less than 2 months until F9 Alpha
15:29:26 <tagoh3>	warren: right. good idea
15:29:52 <warren>	juhp, tagoh3: either of your blogs on fedora planet?
15:30:01 <juhp>	warren: mine is
15:30:08 <warren>	juhp, tagoh3: rest of the development community has to hear stuff from you, so they know you exist =)
15:30:28 <warren>	juhp, tagoh3: post occasional summaries of stuff going on
15:30:45 <juhp>	warren: yes I have been neglecting my blog recently
15:30:47 <tagoh3>	warren: no, I'm not there.
15:30:59 <warren>	I gotta sleep
15:31:09 <warren>	really need the IM Desktop Integration stuff on a wiki page
15:31:12 <juhp>	yes so this is going to be quite a bit of work and it has not started yet
15:31:24 <juhp>	warren: yes that would be good
15:31:26 <warren>	I realize it is important work to be done
15:31:31 <juhp>	right
15:31:32 <warren>	juhp, saw the Features process?
15:31:36 <juhp>	yes
15:31:41 <warren>	juhp, each feature for F9 has its own page
15:31:47 <juhp>	I mentioned some links above...
15:31:48 <warren>	good place to start
15:31:50 <juhp>	nod
15:31:57 <warren>	oh, I see =)
15:31:59 <warren>	ok good night
15:32:20 <juhp>	and I agree completely that this is really the feature on our list that really needs a feature page if it is going to happen
15:32:29 <juhp>	ok see you warren
15:33:25 <tagoh3>	I'll make a draft for that
15:33:49 <keimoto_co>	what does IM Desktop integration consists of?
15:34:48 <juhp>	tagoh3: great
15:35:02 <tagoh3>	keimoto_co: one of possible features that contains is, to enable/disable IM without restarting the desktop say.
15:35:31 <keimoto_co>	scim-restart does better than last year
15:36:01 <juhp>	keimoto_co: scim-restart is a very bad hack...
15:36:23 <juhp>	we can probably get rid of it after this anyway
15:36:42 <juhp>	well we should probably get rid of it anyway ;-)
15:36:43 <tagoh3>	also you won't need to restart the desktop if you change your preferrable IM on im-chooser say.
15:37:00 <juhp>	tagoh3: right
15:37:18 <juhp>	tagoh3: I was just wondering about IM control on the app level
15:37:36 <juhp>	wonder if it would be possible to start IM just for one application
15:37:59 <juhp>	(IM == input method, btw for other listening in and confusing:)
15:38:02 <juhp>	others
15:38:10 <tagoh3>	juhp: good point - it could be the part of this feature. but need the different implementation for that
15:38:29 <juhp>	right maybe that would be done later or as an enhancement
15:38:34 <juhp>	hmm
15:39:17 <juhp>	tagoh3: do you want to briefly recap on the design/implementation ideas?
15:40:37 <tagoh3>	juhp: sure, if necessary
15:40:39 <juhp>	I think we need to talk to upstream (freedesktop/gtk/qt) about it too
15:41:33 <juhp>	I wonder XIM too if something can be done there
15:41:36 <juhp>	about
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15:42:50 <tagoh3>	juhp: about XIM, I can't say sure thing so far.
15:43:27 <juhp>	tagoh3: hmm yeah would need some kind of bridging server?
15:44:04 <tagoh3>	juhp: maybe
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15:45:17 <juhp>	anyway I think this is a pretty important feature so I guess we should start on it soon
15:45:49 <juhp>	as warren pointed out f9 alpha is not that far off
15:46:11 <juhp>	I like to offer any assistance I can with it
15:46:14 <tagoh3>	anyway, the point to do this is, to make a facility to change the IM settings on demand at the toolkit side, with xsettings or gconf or whatever. and put the management daemon to control IM/configuration for toolkit etc
15:46:29 <juhp>	right
15:47:08 <juhp>	tagoh3: do you think it makes sense to do it first for gtk/gnome and then extend to kde or is it better just to target both from the beginning?
15:47:51 <tagoh3>	juhp: if the resource is limited, yes, sounds reasonable.
15:48:19 <juhp>	right doing gtk first might be more realistic
15:48:45 <juhp>	ok thanks
15:48:58 <juhp>	anything else on that, or shall we move on?
15:50:30 <juhp>	ok
15:51:03 <juhp>	we have various things related to:
15:51:06 <juhp>	* Fonts
15:51:31 <juhp>	some of them might be features but not necessarily all
15:51:46 <juhp>	in the mail there was:
15:51:49 <juhp>	  - Thai fonts and support
15:51:49 <juhp>	  - new default Japanese font: VLGothic-fonts
15:51:49 <juhp>	  - additional fonts for current languages
15:51:59 <juhp>	pravins: mentioned more Indic fonts?
15:52:11 <juhp>	for new fonts it is postly a matter of packaging
15:52:12 <pravins>	yes
15:52:42 <pravins>	no it might require maintenance also
15:53:00 <juhp>	so those probably need not appear as features as long as someone is taking care of packaging them and getting them reviewed and accepted
15:53:18 <juhp>	pravins: sure - but maintainence is not part of the features per se :)
15:53:38 <juhp>	pravins: do you know who is going to submit those fonts to fedora?
15:54:02 <juhp>	one of our big gaps currently on fonts is Thai
15:54:27 <pravins>	not yet
15:54:32 <juhp>	so I am really hoping we can clear any legal issue and get one or more Thai fonts added to the distro
15:54:34 <pravins>	but i can do that :)
15:54:44 <juhp>	pravins: ok - great!
15:54:52 <juhp>	pravins: what is the name of the font?
15:54:58 <pravins>	samyak
15:55:02 <juhp>	aha
15:55:06 <pravins>	http://sarovar.org/project/memberlist.php?group_id=461
15:55:37 <juhp>	(but I feel a bit hesitant to propose the thai fonts as a feature at least until we are clear on the legal side:)
15:55:52 <juhp>	pravins: which script(s) does it cover?
15:56:14 <juhp>	aha see some familiar names there :)
15:57:20 <juhp>	http://sarovar.org/projects/samyak/
15:57:36 <pravins>	five indic scripts
15:57:49 <pravins>	i will look towards this & get back to u
15:57:50 <pravins>	:)
15:58:19 <juhp>	great
15:59:00 <juhp>	pravins: please feel free to go ahead and package/submit it for/to fedora
15:59:19 <juhp>	tagoh3: there is also the new Japanese default
15:59:33 <juhp>	I think not too many changes needed for that
15:59:41 <juhp>	maybe just anaconda?
15:59:53 <juhp>	I already updated comps-f9
16:00:28 <juhp>	so rawhide should be using it already perhaps
16:00:46 <tagoh3>	and the dependency in fonts-japanese
16:00:50 <juhp>	ah yes
16:00:56 <tagoh3>	some configuration changes may be necessary
16:01:23 <juhp>	ah reminds me we are thinking of getting rid of all the meta-packages for f9
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16:01:37 <juhp>	tagoh3: ok right
16:02:51 <juhp>	any more thoughts on fonts
16:03:06 <juhp>	or other potential fonts features?
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16:04:40 <juhp>	* Other features ideas
16:05:08 <juhp>	ok I think those were the main ideas brought up prior to this meeting
16:05:18 <juhp>	any other ideas?
16:06:03 <juhp>	keimoto_co: you mentioned something about filename conversion?
16:06:09 <keimoto_co>	yes
16:06:10 <juhp>	what was that?
16:06:23 *	keimoto_co get the bugzilla URL.
16:07:00 <keimoto_co>	okay, there is not initially requested on fedora.
16:07:31 <keimoto_co>	anyways, the request is about a tool for converting the filename in one encoding to another.
16:07:38 <juhp>	keimoto_co: so it is a convmv bug?
16:07:49 <juhp>	hm
16:08:00 <keimoto_co>	e.g. in XP, filenames are in big5 for Trad Chinese but not unicode.
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16:08:14 >keimoto_co<	what is the bz no?
16:08:26 <juhp>	keimoto_co: I think convmv can handle that
16:08:36 <keimoto_co>	someone wants the system-wide one-click solution might be
16:08:50 <juhp>	or is it a gui request?
16:10:06 <juhp>	anyway
16:10:21 <keimoto_co>	need to clarify w/ reporter then
16:10:30 <juhp>	there are a few ideas floating around but I am not sure if anyone is going to work on them
16:10:33 <juhp>	like:
16:11:50 <juhp>	- ATK support for SCIM
16:12:13 <juhp>	- On-screen keyboard
16:12:17 <tagoh3>	keimoto_co: you can change the mount option from the property dialog of the drive icon on nautilus, to have "iocharset=big5" say.
16:12:52 <tagoh3>	if he/she don't want to convert the filenames actually
16:12:58 <juhp>	ah yeah
16:13:14 <keimoto_co>	tagoh3☺ thx for info
16:13:47 <keimoto_co>	juhp☺ gok is on-screen keyboard, but not so multi-lang. :)
16:13:52 <juhp>	anyone have anything else?
16:14:15 <juhp>	keimoto_co: yeah gok seems targeted at a11y
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16:16:42 <juhp>	pravins, paragn, phuang_office: anything you want to bring up?
16:17:14 <juhp>	and huzheng
16:17:26 <juhp>	or did I miss anyone else?
16:17:59 <huzheng>	no
16:18:06 <paragn>	I guess major thing fro indic is to get more and more fonts available in Fedora and have them working properly with upstream pango
16:18:16 <juhp>	aha
16:18:45 <juhp>	paragn: new coverage or alternative fonts?
16:18:54 <paragn>	both
16:18:56 <juhp>	ok
16:19:37 <juhp>	paragn: is there a danger that alternative fonts might be incompatible (conflict) under pango say?
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16:20:16 <paragn>	we already have Malayalam issue going on
16:20:25 <juhp>	I suppose better Qt Indic support might make a good a feature?
16:20:28 <juhp>	paragn: nod
16:21:13 <juhp>	paragn: do we need a feature for that you think?
16:21:48 <paragn>	juhp, qt comes with own scripting tools so I guess its support is good for indic
16:22:32 <paragn>	I mean its not needed to depend on pango like gnome used to
16:23:07 <juhp>	right, but currently there are quite a lot of problems I think - hopefully it will improve
16:23:26 <juhp>	ok last call - anything else?
16:23:38 <paragn>	sure we will look at them :)
16:24:23 <juhp>	otherwise let's close the meeting in a few minutes
16:24:27 <pravins>	juhp, nothing from my side
16:24:36 <juhp>	ok thanks
16:24:53 <paragn>	juhp, thanks
16:25:52 <tagoh3>	juhp: thanks
16:27:54 <juhp>	ok thanks for the meeting to everyone who participated :)
16:28:50 <juhp>	I will (try to) upload the log to the wiki
16:29:31 <juhp>	* meeting closed