Meeting:Docs IRC log 20080806

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stickster <meeting> 06 Aug 15:07
stickster Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary. 06 Aug 15:08
stickster Let's talk about wiki gardening 06 Aug 15:08
--- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening 06 Aug 15:08
* quaid pulls in just in time 06 Aug 15:08
stickster woo-hoo! 06 Aug 15:08
quaid I like whatever stickster just recommended :) 06 Aug 15:08
* Sparks would like a backup just in case 06 Aug 15:08
quaid <meeting> 06 Aug 15:09
quaid (to make it easier to find the start in the log) 06 Aug 15:09
quaid oh, sorry! 06 Aug 15:09
ianweller stickster already did that lol 06 Aug 15:09
* quaid looks at his buffer and moves on 06 Aug 15:09
ianweller now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.> 06 Aug 15:09
quaid yeah, now I messed it up 06 Aug 15:09
stickster 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so 06 Aug 15:09
stickster It's a recursive meeting 06 Aug 15:09
quaid ok, so ... 06 Aug 15:09
quaid just to speak for a moment about page naming ... 06 Aug 15:10
quaid well ... 06 Aug 15:10
quaid I'm stuck mentally; 06 Aug 15:10
quaid I see where we need to go to, but 06 Aug 15:10
quaid i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :) 06 Aug 15:10
quaid ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely 06 Aug 15:11
quaid so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ... 06 Aug 15:11
quaid anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so. 06 Aug 15:11
stickster Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise 06 Aug 15:11
* ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema 06 Aug 15:11
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure 06 Aug 15:12
quaid ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that 06 Aug 15:12
* stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list 06 Aug 15:12
quaid in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way 06 Aug 15:12
quaid ok, so, yeah 06 Aug 15:13
stickster quaid: +1 06 Aug 15:13
quaid just wanted to remind people to work on that too 06 Aug 15:13
stickster yeppers 06 Aug 15:13
* stickster steals mizmo-ism 06 Aug 15:13
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ? 06 Aug 15:13
* quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on 06 Aug 15:14
quaid ok, there we go; and 06 Aug 15:14
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 06 Aug 15:15
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks 06 Aug 15:15
zodbot (at fedoraproject.org) 06 Aug 15:15
quaid darnit, sorry, that was what I meant 06 Aug 15:15
quaid ok, until :30 06 Aug 15:15
quaid we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list 06 Aug 15:16
* quaid has the edit on that page 06 Aug 15:16
quaid then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing. 06 Aug 15:16
quaid sound OK? 06 Aug 15:16
stickster cool beans 06 Aug 15:16
ianweller sure 06 Aug 15:16
* quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme 06 Aug 15:16
quaid ok, open for task ideas 06 Aug 15:17
quaid what does the wiki need gardened? 06 Aug 15:17
ianweller what zodbot needs is a snarfer that transforms Wiki links with double brackets into urls 06 Aug 15:17
stickster * Reorg of packaging policy * 06 Aug 15:17
ianweller  ;) 06 Aug 15:17
abadger1999 stickster: +1 06 Aug 15:17
quaid * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo) 06 Aug 15:18
stickster * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: * 06 Aug 15:18
* ke4qqq is late 06 Aug 15:18
quaid * moving meeting minutes to Meeting: 06 Aug 15:18
quaid ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first 06 Aug 15:19
quaid working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them. 06 Aug 15:19
quaid * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages 06 Aug 15:19
* quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :) 06 Aug 15:19
stickster wow, major pruning there ;-) 06 Aug 15:19
stickster * Find/prune orphans and dead links * 06 Aug 15:20
ianweller * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done * 06 Aug 15:21
quaid yeah, that one 06 Aug 15:21
stickster yum 06 Aug 15:22
stickster yum install icecreamcake 06 Aug 15:22
stickster Any more? 06 Aug 15:23
quaid disambiguation needs? 06 Aug 15:23
ianweller steal mediawiki's templates for that? 06 Aug 15:24
quaid * categorize all doc pages properly 06 Aug 15:24
quaid * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting 06 Aug 15:24
quaid * set policy ofwhat is obsolete 06 Aug 15:25
quaid N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2 06 Aug 15:25
* quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :) 06 Aug 15:25
ianweller yes, the latter +1 06 Aug 15:26
stickster quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading" 06 Aug 15:26
quaid yep 06 Aug 15:27
stickster And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy 06 Aug 15:27
* quaid adds N+1 to that :D 06 Aug 15:27
quaid stickster: b i n g o 06 Aug 15:28
stickster We try never to think ahead. 06 Aug 15:28
quaid ok, saving an update to that page 06 Aug 15:29
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks 06 Aug 15:29
zodbot (at fedoraproject.org) 06 Aug 15:29
quaid seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone? 06 Aug 15:29
quaid let's give this a few more minutes 06 Aug 15:29
* quaid reorganizes the order a bit 06 Aug 15:29
quaid ok, if that's it on the task ideas 06 Aug 15:32
* quaid updates the org of that page 06 Aug 15:32
stickster I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews. 06 Aug 15:33
quaid ok, but page naming has to come first 06 Aug 15:34
quaid right? 06 Aug 15:35
ianweller agreed with both statements 06 Aug 15:35
* wonderer1 late to SORRY 06 Aug 15:36
quaid np 06 Aug 15:36
quaid stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming 06 Aug 15:36
stickster quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing. 06 Aug 15:37
* stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light 06 Aug 15:37
quaid ok, so 06 Aug 15:38
quaid any other thoughts on the priority there? 06 Aug 15:38
quaid now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks 06 Aug 15:39
stickster 3 and 5 at the top 06 Aug 15:39
stickster 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies 06 Aug 15:39
quaid ah, we need to note that somewhow 06 Aug 15:40
quaid should we make two categories here? 06 Aug 15:40
quaid "olders and newbsters" 06 Aug 15:40
quaid stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order? 06 Aug 15:41
stickster quaid: Sorry, that was priority 06 Aug 15:41
stickster Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough 06 Aug 15:41
stickster 8 and 10 are easier. 06 Aug 15:42
quaid so, two questions: 06 Aug 15:42
quaid i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me) 06 Aug 15:42
stickster Is this a task list? 06 Aug 15:42
stickster If so, then sort by priority. 06 Aug 15:42
quaid ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2 06 Aug 15:42
quaid well, we could have two lists that sort by priority 06 Aug 15:43
quaid just adjust the page nesting to have two sections 06 Aug 15:43
stickster Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks 06 Aug 15:43
quaid or just note the difficulty in the section 06 Aug 15:43
* quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second 06 Aug 15:43
wonderer1 to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside... 06 Aug 15:43
* stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice 06 Aug 15:44
stickster I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks. 06 Aug 15:44
quaid well, we may not get assignment on them all 06 Aug 15:44
quaid stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them? 06 Aug 15:45
stickster too true 06 Aug 15:45
quaid I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board 06 Aug 15:45
wonderer1 and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ? 06 Aug 15:45
zodbot (at fedoraproject.org) 06 Aug 15:45
stickster domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min 06 Aug 15:46
* wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min. 06 Aug 15:47
stickster back 06 Aug 15:47
wonderer1 how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured? 06 Aug 15:48
stickster ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with? 06 Aug 15:48
* quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls 06 Aug 15:49
* ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs 06 Aug 15:49
ke4qqq ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy 06 Aug 15:49
ke4qqq errr talking to myself... 06 Aug 15:49
quaid right, we need to work up the steps a bit 06 Aug 15:50
quaid e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page 06 Aug 15:50
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks 06 Aug 15:50
zodbot (at fedoraproject.org) 06 Aug 15:50
quaid ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority 06 Aug 15:50
* quaid removes tertiary sections 06 Aug 15:51
stickster That looks good on a tty at least :-) 06 Aug 15:51
quaid quadenary! 06 Aug 15:51
stickster Anyone else care to comment? 06 Aug 15:52
quaid ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments 06 Aug 15:53
ke4qqq one quick comment 06 Aug 15:53
* wonderer1 would go for Find and prune orphans and dead links 06 Aug 15:53
quaid wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task. 06 Aug 15:54
ke4qqq It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc. 06 Aug 15:54
stickster ke4qqq: Wow, good point. 06 Aug 15:54
ke4qqq that may exist but I haven't seen it 06 Aug 15:54
quaid is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure? 06 Aug 15:54
quaid should that be, that is 06 Aug 15:54
wonderer1 quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?! 06 Aug 15:55
quaid or do we need a stand-alone page for that? 06 Aug 15:55
stickster Example_wiki_page 06 Aug 15:55
stickster But yes. 06 Aug 15:55
quaid wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc. 06 Aug 15:55
* quaid adds the page structure task 06 Aug 15:55
stickster wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions 06 Aug 15:56
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages 06 Aug 15:56
stickster wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there 06 Aug 15:56
quaid 1 06 Aug 15:56
wonderer1 stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-) 06 Aug 15:57
stickster ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-) 06 Aug 15:57
ke4qqq I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing 06 Aug 15:57
quaid ke4qqq: of course! 06 Aug 15:57
ke4qqq as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are. 06 Aug 15:57
stickster ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres. 06 Aug 15:57
quaid just a catalystis needed, as usual 06 Aug 15:57
stickster *carpenters 06 Aug 15:57
quaid wonderer1: what is your FAS user name? 06 Aug 15:58
wonderer1 wonderer 06 Aug 15:58
quaid  :D 06 Aug 15:58
* stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes 06 Aug 15:58
wonderer1 without the "1" :-) 06 Aug 15:58
stickster What about other task assignments? 06 Aug 15:58
quaid I've got the page naming 06 Aug 15:59
stickster quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week 06 Aug 15:59
stickster ha, jinx 06 Aug 15:59
stickster I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff 06 Aug 15:59
quaid hmm 06 Aug 15:59
stickster probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f 06 Aug 15:59
quaid I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help? 06 Aug 15:59
stickster Sure would be nice 06 Aug 16:00
stickster Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-) 06 Aug 16:00
* stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand 06 Aug 16:00
stickster Is someone in this channel directly following us? 06 Aug 16:01
Sparks stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us 06 Aug 16:01
stickster Sparks: You're alive! 06 Aug 16:01
stickster  ;-) 06 Aug 16:01
quaid whoops, time to wrap up 06 Aug 16:02
quaid yep, FAMSco or somebody :) 06 Aug 16:02
quaid anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs 06 Aug 16:02
fugolini take you time :) 06 Aug 16:02
stickster fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours! 06 Aug 16:02
fugolini feel free to finish 06 Aug 16:02
quaid </meeting> 06 Aug 16:02
quaid </meeting> 06 Aug 16:02

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