From Fedora Project Wiki
| stickster | <meeting> | 06 Aug 15:07 |
|---|---|---|
| stickster | Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary. | 06 Aug 15:08 |
| stickster | Let's talk about wiki gardening | 06 Aug 15:08 |
| --- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening | 06 Aug 15:08 | |
| * quaid pulls in just in time | 06 Aug 15:08 | |
| stickster | woo-hoo! | 06 Aug 15:08 |
| quaid | I like whatever stickster just recommended :) | 06 Aug 15:08 |
| * Sparks would like a backup just in case | 06 Aug 15:08 | |
| quaid | <meeting> | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| quaid | (to make it easier to find the start in the log) | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| quaid | oh, sorry! | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| ianweller | stickster already did that lol | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| * quaid looks at his buffer and moves on | 06 Aug 15:09 | |
| ianweller | now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.> | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| quaid | yeah, now I messed it up | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| stickster | 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| stickster | It's a recursive meeting | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| quaid | ok, so ... | 06 Aug 15:09 |
| quaid | just to speak for a moment about page naming ... | 06 Aug 15:10 |
| quaid | well ... | 06 Aug 15:10 |
| quaid | I'm stuck mentally; | 06 Aug 15:10 |
| quaid | I see where we need to go to, but | 06 Aug 15:10 |
| quaid | i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :) | 06 Aug 15:10 |
| quaid | ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely | 06 Aug 15:11 |
| quaid | so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ... | 06 Aug 15:11 |
| quaid | anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so. | 06 Aug 15:11 |
| stickster | Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise | 06 Aug 15:11 |
| * ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema | 06 Aug 15:11 | |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure | 06 Aug 15:12 |
| quaid | ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that | 06 Aug 15:12 |
| * stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list | 06 Aug 15:12 | |
| quaid | in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way | 06 Aug 15:12 |
| quaid | ok, so, yeah | 06 Aug 15:13 |
| stickster | quaid: +1 | 06 Aug 15:13 |
| quaid | just wanted to remind people to work on that too | 06 Aug 15:13 |
| stickster | yeppers | 06 Aug 15:13 |
| * stickster steals mizmo-ism | 06 Aug 15:13 | |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ? | 06 Aug 15:13 |
| * quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on | 06 Aug 15:14 | |
| quaid | ok, there we go; and | 06 Aug 15:14 |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks | 06 Aug 15:15 |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks | 06 Aug 15:15 |
| zodbot | (at fedoraproject.org) | 06 Aug 15:15 |
| quaid | darnit, sorry, that was what I meant | 06 Aug 15:15 |
| quaid | ok, until :30 | 06 Aug 15:15 |
| quaid | we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list | 06 Aug 15:16 |
| * quaid has the edit on that page | 06 Aug 15:16 | |
| quaid | then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing. | 06 Aug 15:16 |
| quaid | sound OK? | 06 Aug 15:16 |
| stickster | cool beans | 06 Aug 15:16 |
| ianweller | sure | 06 Aug 15:16 |
| * quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme | 06 Aug 15:16 | |
| quaid | ok, open for task ideas | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| quaid | what does the wiki need gardened? | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| ianweller | what zodbot needs is a snarfer that transforms Wiki links with double brackets into urls | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| stickster | * Reorg of packaging policy * | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| ianweller | ;) | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| abadger1999 | stickster: +1 | 06 Aug 15:17 |
| quaid | * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo) | 06 Aug 15:18 |
| stickster | * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: * | 06 Aug 15:18 |
| * ke4qqq is late | 06 Aug 15:18 | |
| quaid | * moving meeting minutes to Meeting: | 06 Aug 15:18 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first | 06 Aug 15:19 |
| quaid | working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them. | 06 Aug 15:19 |
| quaid | * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages | 06 Aug 15:19 |
| * quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :) | 06 Aug 15:19 | |
| stickster | wow, major pruning there ;-) | 06 Aug 15:19 |
| stickster | * Find/prune orphans and dead links * | 06 Aug 15:20 |
| ianweller | * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done * | 06 Aug 15:21 |
| quaid | yeah, that one | 06 Aug 15:21 |
| stickster | yum | 06 Aug 15:22 |
| stickster | yum install icecreamcake | 06 Aug 15:22 |
| stickster | Any more? | 06 Aug 15:23 |
| quaid | disambiguation needs? | 06 Aug 15:23 |
| ianweller | steal mediawiki's templates for that? | 06 Aug 15:24 |
| quaid | * categorize all doc pages properly | 06 Aug 15:24 |
| quaid | * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting | 06 Aug 15:24 |
| quaid | * set policy ofwhat is obsolete | 06 Aug 15:25 |
| quaid | N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2 | 06 Aug 15:25 |
| * quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :) | 06 Aug 15:25 | |
| ianweller | yes, the latter +1 | 06 Aug 15:26 |
| stickster | quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading" | 06 Aug 15:26 |
| quaid | yep | 06 Aug 15:27 |
| stickster | And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy | 06 Aug 15:27 |
| * quaid adds N+1 to that :D | 06 Aug 15:27 | |
| quaid | stickster: b i n g o | 06 Aug 15:28 |
| stickster | We try never to think ahead. | 06 Aug 15:28 |
| quaid | ok, saving an update to that page | 06 Aug 15:29 |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks | 06 Aug 15:29 |
| zodbot | (at fedoraproject.org) | 06 Aug 15:29 |
| quaid | seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone? | 06 Aug 15:29 |
| quaid | let's give this a few more minutes | 06 Aug 15:29 |
| * quaid reorganizes the order a bit | 06 Aug 15:29 | |
| quaid | ok, if that's it on the task ideas | 06 Aug 15:32 |
| * quaid updates the org of that page | 06 Aug 15:32 | |
| stickster | I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews. | 06 Aug 15:33 |
| quaid | ok, but page naming has to come first | 06 Aug 15:34 |
| quaid | right? | 06 Aug 15:35 |
| ianweller | agreed with both statements | 06 Aug 15:35 |
| * wonderer1 late to SORRY | 06 Aug 15:36 | |
| quaid | np | 06 Aug 15:36 |
| quaid | stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming | 06 Aug 15:36 |
| stickster | quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing. | 06 Aug 15:37 |
| * stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light | 06 Aug 15:37 | |
| quaid | ok, so | 06 Aug 15:38 |
| quaid | any other thoughts on the priority there? | 06 Aug 15:38 |
| quaid | now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks | 06 Aug 15:39 |
| stickster | 3 and 5 at the top | 06 Aug 15:39 |
| stickster | 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies | 06 Aug 15:39 |
| quaid | ah, we need to note that somewhow | 06 Aug 15:40 |
| quaid | should we make two categories here? | 06 Aug 15:40 |
| quaid | "olders and newbsters" | 06 Aug 15:40 |
| quaid | stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order? | 06 Aug 15:41 |
| stickster | quaid: Sorry, that was priority | 06 Aug 15:41 |
| stickster | Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough | 06 Aug 15:41 |
| stickster | 8 and 10 are easier. | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| quaid | so, two questions: | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| quaid | i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me) | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| stickster | Is this a task list? | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| stickster | If so, then sort by priority. | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| quaid | ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2 | 06 Aug 15:42 |
| quaid | well, we could have two lists that sort by priority | 06 Aug 15:43 |
| quaid | just adjust the page nesting to have two sections | 06 Aug 15:43 |
| stickster | Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks | 06 Aug 15:43 |
| quaid | or just note the difficulty in the section | 06 Aug 15:43 |
| * quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second | 06 Aug 15:43 | |
| wonderer1 | to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside... | 06 Aug 15:43 |
| * stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice | 06 Aug 15:44 | |
| stickster | I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks. | 06 Aug 15:44 |
| quaid | well, we may not get assignment on them all | 06 Aug 15:44 |
| quaid | stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them? | 06 Aug 15:45 |
| stickster | too true | 06 Aug 15:45 |
| quaid | I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board | 06 Aug 15:45 |
| wonderer1 | and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ? | 06 Aug 15:45 |
| zodbot | (at fedoraproject.org) | 06 Aug 15:45 |
| stickster | domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min | 06 Aug 15:46 |
| * wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min. | 06 Aug 15:47 | |
| stickster | back | 06 Aug 15:47 |
| wonderer1 | how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured? | 06 Aug 15:48 |
| stickster | ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with? | 06 Aug 15:48 |
| * quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls | 06 Aug 15:49 | |
| * ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs | 06 Aug 15:49 | |
| ke4qqq | ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy | 06 Aug 15:49 |
| ke4qqq | errr talking to myself... | 06 Aug 15:49 |
| quaid | right, we need to work up the steps a bit | 06 Aug 15:50 |
| quaid | e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page | 06 Aug 15:50 |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks | 06 Aug 15:50 |
| zodbot | (at fedoraproject.org) | 06 Aug 15:50 |
| quaid | ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority | 06 Aug 15:50 |
| * quaid removes tertiary sections | 06 Aug 15:51 | |
| stickster | That looks good on a tty at least :-) | 06 Aug 15:51 |
| quaid | quadenary! | 06 Aug 15:51 |
| stickster | Anyone else care to comment? | 06 Aug 15:52 |
| quaid | ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments | 06 Aug 15:53 |
| ke4qqq | one quick comment | 06 Aug 15:53 |
| * wonderer1 would go for Find and prune orphans and dead links | 06 Aug 15:53 | |
| quaid | wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task. | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| ke4qqq | It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc. | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: Wow, good point. | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| ke4qqq | that may exist but I haven't seen it | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| quaid | is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure? | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| quaid | should that be, that is | 06 Aug 15:54 |
| wonderer1 | quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?! | 06 Aug 15:55 |
| quaid | or do we need a stand-alone page for that? | 06 Aug 15:55 |
| stickster | Example_wiki_page | 06 Aug 15:55 |
| stickster | But yes. | 06 Aug 15:55 |
| quaid | wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc. | 06 Aug 15:55 |
| * quaid adds the page structure task | 06 Aug 15:55 | |
| stickster | wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions | 06 Aug 15:56 |
| quaid | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages | 06 Aug 15:56 |
| stickster | wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there | 06 Aug 15:56 |
| quaid | 1 | 06 Aug 15:56 |
| wonderer1 | stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-) | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-) | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| ke4qqq | I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| quaid | ke4qqq: of course! | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| ke4qqq | as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are. | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| stickster | ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres. | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| quaid | just a catalystis needed, as usual | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| stickster | *carpenters | 06 Aug 15:57 |
| quaid | wonderer1: what is your FAS user name? | 06 Aug 15:58 |
| wonderer1 | wonderer | 06 Aug 15:58 |
| quaid | :D | 06 Aug 15:58 |
| * stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes | 06 Aug 15:58 | |
| wonderer1 | without the "1" :-) | 06 Aug 15:58 |
| stickster | What about other task assignments? | 06 Aug 15:58 |
| quaid | I've got the page naming | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| stickster | quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| stickster | ha, jinx | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| stickster | I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| quaid | hmm | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| stickster | probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| quaid | I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help? | 06 Aug 15:59 |
| stickster | Sure would be nice | 06 Aug 16:00 |
| stickster | Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-) | 06 Aug 16:00 |
| * stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand | 06 Aug 16:00 | |
| stickster | Is someone in this channel directly following us? | 06 Aug 16:01 |
| Sparks | stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us | 06 Aug 16:01 |
| stickster | Sparks: You're alive! | 06 Aug 16:01 |
| stickster | ;-) | 06 Aug 16:01 |
| quaid | whoops, time to wrap up | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| quaid | yep, FAMSco or somebody :) | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| quaid | anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| fugolini | take you time :) | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| stickster | fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours! | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| fugolini | feel free to finish | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 06 Aug 16:02 |
| quaid | </meeting> | 06 Aug 16:02 |
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