| Sparks
| <meeting id="Docs Project">
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
|
| Sparks
| Roll call!
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| quaid
| let the boy change the topic at least :)
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *radsy is here
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *quaid esta aqui
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *jjmcd here
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *Sparks is here
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| *glezos είναι εδώ
| Apr 01 20:00
|
| glezos
| if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm
| Apr 01 20:01
|
| here.
|
| quaid
| wordplay!
| Apr 01 20:01
|
| jjmcd
| glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you
| Apr 01 20:01
|
| my story about greek
|
| *Sparks er her
| Apr 01 20:01
|
| jjmcd
| --
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| Sparks
| glezos: Everything looks greek to me at
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| this hour
|
| *Renault has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| 3.1b3/20090327190841]")
|
| *joat says "me too!"
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| *ryanlerch
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting
|
| Sparks
| Okay... I see one of my stars on board
| Apr 01 20:02
|
| so let's go harass him.
|
| Sparks
| Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them!
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
|
| jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| joat juhp jwb
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Okay, let me have it!
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| jjmcd
| OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| *rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2)
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| has joined #fedora-meeting
|
| jjmcd
| ok'
| Apr 01 20:03
|
| *RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo")
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| jjmcd
| Oh
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| jjmcd
| When you said.... never mind
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| jjmcd
| 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| changes, might drop:
|
| jjmcd
| Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| tools
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be
| Apr 01 20:04
|
| jjmcd
| 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| limited content:
|
| jjmcd
| Entertainment, Live, Security
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| jjmcd
| 3) NEED CONTENT:
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| jjmcd
| Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| servers
|
| jjmcd
| 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert:
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| jjmcd
| Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| jjmcd
| (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| could use more content)
|
| jjmcd
| Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| jjmcd
| The more help we can get the less we will have
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| to drop, but basically
|
| jjmcd
| we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we
| Apr 01 20:05
|
| can make the pot
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| the pot?
|
| jjmcd
| We know how to make the pot
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| Sparks
| cool
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| jjmcd
| We think we can then use the result
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| jjmcd
| That second part hasn't been proven, but
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| jjmcd
| stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| problem
|
| Sparks
| And you are going with that?
| Apr 01 20:06
|
| Sparks
| :)
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| jjmcd
| yes
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| Sparks
| So what do you need from me/Docs?
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| quaid
| right, it's no worse than what we've done in the
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| past
|
| rudi
| There are a few strings in the po files for the
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section
|
| titles
|
| jjmcd
| We could use some hands to research servers,
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| networking
|
| jjmcd
| and do some of the remaining conversions
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| jjmcd
| without the py tools it is basically cut and
| Apr 01 20:07
|
| paste
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools?
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| jjmcd
| yeah
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| Sparks
| Okay, I think there have been some
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest
|
| jjmcd
| the ones that need some library or another and
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| don't work anymore
|
| *stickster_afk is now known as stickster
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| jjmcd
| I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now,
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| although not yet in the repo?
|
| jjmcd
| Seems like there was something broken
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| *quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions
| Apr 01 20:08
|
| for a bit?
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Yeah, that's coming up
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Of course we can merge the
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| topics...
|
| jjmcd
| cut/paste probably would take a total of a
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| couple of hours
|
| *quaid should wait :)
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| jjmcd
| but if someone does that I can research the
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| missing pieces
|
| Sparks
| Okay... who can step up for some last
| Apr 01 20:09
|
| minute research and converting?
|
| Sparks
| The first ten people get a piece of
| Apr 01 20:10
|
| cherry pie (I baked yesterday).
|
| stickster
| quaid: Are you guys talking about the
| Apr 01 20:10
|
| problems with mw-render?
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: I can try to get some additional
| Apr 01 20:10
|
| information on NetworkManager.
|
| stickster
| quaid: Are you guys talking about the
| Apr 01 20:10
|
| problems with mw-render?
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: ^^
| Apr 01 20:10
|
| jjmcd
| That would be a help
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| quaid
| stickster: yes
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| jjmcd
| yes
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| stickster
| I think you can download the odfpy07
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally
|
| jjmcd
| but over the past few weeks we've gotten most
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| dome by hand
|
| quaid
| that's what I'm talking 'bout!
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| jjmcd
| so rather than spend time trying to make the
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| tool work
|
| joat
| when's it needed by?
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| jjmcd
| Tomorrow
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| Sparks
| at noon
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| jjmcd
| and most of the conversion is done
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow
|
| grease
|
| jjmcd
| thanks to Ryan
| Apr 01 20:11
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: is that noon EDT?
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| joat
| ouch...
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| jjmcd
| I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| time for pits, git branches etc
|
| jjmcd
| pots I mean
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| Sparks
| pots or pits
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| jjmcd
| We still need a strategy for l10n
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| quaid
| I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al,
| Apr 01 20:12
|
| fwiw
|
| jjmcd
| to see a clean one pot system while not loosing
| Apr 01 20:13
|
| our 30~ pots
|
| jjmcd
| but I don't see that as a big problem
| Apr 01 20:13
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the
|
| other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know.
|
| jjmcd
| Yep I think that's it
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| quaid
| that's more like a tactic, in my book :)
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| stickster
| The 'master' branch will retain
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| everything in a normal Publican fashion
|
| jjmcd
| that was my thought, assuming tx can use an
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| arbitrary branch
|
| stickster
| quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| that's what was asked for
|
| quaid
| we need to interact with an admin of
| Apr 01 20:14
|
| translate.fedoraproject.org
|
| quaid
| although theoretically we could grow knowledge
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| of how to add modules within our group, if we want
|
| stickster
| I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| be able to help there.
|
| rudi
| So are we planning to have L10N create one big
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| po per language?
|
| jjmcd
| yep
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| jjmcd
| Then we will merge those strings into the
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| individual pos
|
| quaid
| and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican?
| Apr 01 20:15
|
| jjmcd
| exactly
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| quaid
| ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge.
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| jjmcd
| Apparently there is some tool
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| Sparks
| slice and dice
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| rudi
| That will be an non-trivial task for the Install
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| guide with ~700 po files
|
| quaid
| only if it requires manual intervention?
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| jjmcd
| bash is my friend
| Apr 01 20:16
|
| *laubersm
| Apr 01 20:17
|
| (n=laubersm@72-255-35-203.client.stsn.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: yes, msgmerge
| Apr 01 20:17
|
| jjmcd
| I'm happy to see so many people raise their
| Apr 01 20:17
|
| hands to help
|
| *quaid loves to play in bash
| Apr 01 20:17
|
| *jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| quaid
| where is the list?
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| stickster
| quaid: See above ^^^^
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| jjmcd
| We got good content, but the conversion will be
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| a bit of a pain
|
| *laubersm pops in to try to catch up
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| stickster
| 'round 00:04
| Apr 01 20:18
|
| jjmcd
| http://fpaste.org/paste/7653
| Apr 01 20:19
|
| jjmcd
| laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| we're talking about
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Is there anything we can
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific?
|
| stickster
| Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| higher up the stack.
|
| stickster
| Typically those involve things like
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas
|
| Sparks
| stickster: Ahhh.. Okay
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| jjmcd
| I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm
| Apr 01 20:20
|
| not so sure there really is anything
|
| jjmcd
| OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes
| Apr 01 20:21
|
| Sparks
| Okay... let's come back to this at the
| Apr 01 20:22
|
| end to get the volunteers.
|
| Sparks
| any other questions about the Release
| Apr 01 20:22
|
| notes?
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 20:22
|
| Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet
|
| quaid
| ok, this was mine
| Apr 01 20:23
|
| Sparks
| Okay... not sure what this is but I'm
| Apr 01 20:23
|
| pretty sure I didn't put it up
|
| Sparks
| Oh good...
| Apr 01 20:23
|
| Sparks
| Go quaid
| Apr 01 20:23
|
| quaid
| a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have
| Apr 01 20:23
|
| some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and
|
| or the one page Beta notes
|
| quaid
| I'm sure it's on their beat
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| *inode0 has quit ("Leaving.")
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| quaid
| and that is where it *should* be, right?
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| quaid
| they right one source, etc.
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| quaid
| but how do the rest of us know what needs early
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc.
|
| quaid
| other than combing features, etc.
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| quaid
| so I wondered what to do?
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| quaid
| at the least, give beat writers a way to flag
| Apr 01 20:24
|
| their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview
|
| ...
|
| *jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing
| Apr 01 20:25
|
| guys
|
| *k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined
| Apr 01 20:25
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| *Sparks has an idea
| Apr 01 20:25
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| ... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be
|
| covered with one set of instructions for beat writers?
|
| *izaac has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| reset by peer))
|
| *quaid has no plan fwiw
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| Sparks
| Okay... Just an idea...
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| quaid
| just that we have a system we can build on, etc.
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| *quaid listens
| Apr 01 20:26
|
| Sparks
| If each beat is its own page...
| Apr 01 20:27
|
| Sparks
| they can be marked with a category...
| Apr 01 20:27
|
| Sparks
| and then we can use those categories to
| Apr 01 20:27
|
| create the docs...
|
| Sparks
| so when they are ready for their item to
| Apr 01 20:27
|
| be included they just add the appropriate cat.
|
| Sparks
| <eof>
| Apr 01 20:27
|
| quaid
| aren't they in a category or two already?
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| Sparks
| Maybe...
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| quaid
| ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| beat Beta content]] for example
|
| Sparks
| yes
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| *quaid sees that some are not in a category,
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| *ick* :D
|
| Sparks
| So we would see when something got added
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| to that cat.
|
| quaid
| right, that sources it
| Apr 01 20:28
|
| jjmcd
| The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| over 100 changes
|
| Sparks
| This is being done for something but I
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| don't remember what it is
|
| quaid
| if they want to consider something as a talking
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i
|
| suppose.
|
| Sparks
| And they shouldn't add the cat until
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| they are DONE... finished... no more editing.
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| mark specific content ...
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| quaid
| Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example
| Apr 01 20:29
|
| Sparks
| Well............
| Apr 01 20:30
|
| Sparks
| yeah
| Apr 01 20:30
|
| quaid
| and we need to churn discussion before beats are
| Apr 01 20:30
|
| done; Paul and marketing
|
| quaid
| have been talking up stuff that are mainly
| Apr 01 20:30
|
| quaid
| in feature pages.
| Apr 01 20:30
|
| jjmcd
| That discussion mostly on dev-list?
| Apr 01 20:31
|
| quaid
| no, I mean Marketing
| Apr 01 20:31
|
| quaid
| to the press, blogs, talking points, etc.
| Apr 01 20:31
|
| *stickster points out that Marketing concentrates
| Apr 01 20:31
|
| on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be
|
| built around them
|
| jjmcd
| mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool
| Apr 01 20:31
|
| stuff that ain't on the feature pages
|
| quaid
| stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a
| Apr 01 20:32
|
| way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without
|
| having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does
|
| it?
|
| stickster
| What do you mean, have beat writers
| Apr 01 20:32
|
| suggest stories to Marketing?
|
| quaid
| a beat writer may know about a technical change
| Apr 01 20:33
|
| that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature
|
| *k0k has quit ("Saliendo")
| Apr 01 20:33
|
| quaid
| and since Docs
| Apr 01 20:33
|
| quaid
| does the release announcements
| Apr 01 20:33
|
| quaid
| and does it on more than just the talking points
| Apr 01 20:33
|
| for the Alpha ... PR
|
| quaid
| it helps if we know some of that too, right?
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| jjmcd
| There are many groups of features that would be
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing
|
| guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground
|
| quaid
| well, we can collect it without using it.
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: The point of the Marketing
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| talking points is to reach the widest possible audience
|
| jjmcd
| Yes, so it is different from the talking points
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| stickster
| quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a
| Apr 01 20:34
|
| technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to
|
| qualify
|
| stickster
| Maybe an example would help
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| quaid
| however, we have niche audiences that could get
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| niche release focuse; e.g. software developers
|
| jjmcd
| exctly
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| jjmcd
| Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| designers
|
| jjmcd
| there are a lot of goodies for hams
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| stickster
| quaid: And that's the purpose of the
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| reorganized release notes, right?
|
| quaid
| heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I
| Apr 01 20:35
|
| know about it?
|
| stickster
| i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New
| Apr 01 20:36
|
| for SysAdmins," etc.
|
| quaid
| stickster: right, and having a beat writer call
| Apr 01 20:36
|
| out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful
|
| jjmcd
| But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal?
| Apr 01 20:36
|
| stickster
| I think it's important for us not to
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still
|
| unsteady on its feet
|
| quaid
| stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get
|
| marketing attention"
|
| stickster
| quaid: Good point.
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| quaid
| but we can collect that info via categories
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| quaid
| to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| quaid
| I think the final announcement needs to continue
| Apr 01 20:37
|
| the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have
|
| established.
|
| jjmcd
| Yes I agree
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| quaid
| ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| list
|
| quaid
| to create a set of categories for the beats to
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| use as a workflow/transition state flags
|
| *jsmith
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| (n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| jjmcd
| But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be
|
| interested in just another Linux release
|
| *zwu|gone is now known as zwu
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| quaid
| and we can publicize those for the Preview
| Apr 01 20:38
|
| Release
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as
| Apr 01 20:39
|
| we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier
|
| jjmcd
| Perhaps we should have some "cool for this
| Apr 01 20:39
|
| audience" wiki pages
|
| *Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the
| Apr 01 20:40
|
| hour and spot needs to go eat...
|
| Sparks
| quaid: So you have a plan?
| Apr 01 20:40
|
| *quaid is done with his task taken
| Apr 01 20:40
|
| Sparks
| :)
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| quaid
| I think we got it, yeah
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| Sparks
| anything else?
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| quaid
| thx
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| quaid
| eoitem
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?"
|
| quaid
| thx for hanging spot :D
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| spot
| so... let me make a few points quickly here
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| spot
| I have given this a LOT of thought over the last
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| day or so
|
| spot
| especially after learning about the limitations
| Apr 01 20:41
|
| of our build/errata tools and RPM
|
| spot
| my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is
| Apr 01 20:42
|
| this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages
|
| spot
| thats 2104 reviews.
| Apr 01 20:42
|
| Sparks
| wow
| Apr 01 20:42
|
| stickster
| That's scary.
| Apr 01 20:42
|
| jsmith
| A plethora!
| Apr 01 20:42
|
| spot
| i honestly don't think it scales without a
| Apr 01 20:43
|
| concerted effort
|
| spot
| now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock
| Apr 01 20:43
|
| them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly
|
| spot
| as is, we approved the other two items that were
| Apr 01 20:43
|
| on FPC's agenda on tuesday
|
| spot
| * permitting desktop files inline
| Apr 01 20:43
|
| spot
| * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs
| Apr 01 20:44
|
| Project determines it is necessary
|
| spot
| so, once FESCo ratifies those items
| Apr 01 20:44
|
| spot
| (which they should do on Friday, hopefully)
| Apr 01 20:44
|
| quaid
| should we have $who there?
| Apr 01 20:44
|
| spot
| there would be nothing preventing you guys from
| Apr 01 20:45
|
| filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages
|
| spot
| the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb
| Apr 01 20:45
|
| the review requests
|
| *stickster shudders to see other packager
| Apr 01 20:46
|
| reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing
|
| of review approvals
|
| spot
| i really wish there was a way to make the lang
| Apr 01 20:46
|
| packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike
|
| hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible
|
| *Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the
| Apr 01 20:46
|
| bombing
|
| spot
| the only thing i would suggest is this
| Apr 01 20:46
|
| spot
| Write a simplified template for doing publican
| Apr 01 20:47
|
| based doc reviews
|
| spot
| also, write a review checklist
| Apr 01 20:47
|
| spot
| and publicize the hell out of it
| Apr 01 20:47
|
| spot
| so that you have an example "good spec" and a
| Apr 01 20:47
|
| checklist
|
| spot
| i'd be happy to sanity check both
| Apr 01 20:47
|
| spot
| then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| jjmcd
| ;)
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| quaid
| isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| can be directly and minimally reviewed?
|
| Sparks
| We'll definitely be checking in with you
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| so we are all in sync.
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Supposed to
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| quaid
| that is, once the base of what it does is
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| approved or fixed or whathaveyou ...
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| it should be too difficult to review.
|
| spot
| quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| average person is going to see
|
| "HolyCrap-Documentation_Everywhere-OMG_WTF-1.0-ja"
|
| spot
| and they aren't going to want to review it.
| Apr 01 20:48
|
| quaid
| are we considering the multiple language SRPMS
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| because:
|
| quaid
| a) Publican only supports that and we have no
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| choice
|
| quaid
| b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| 20 MB and growing ...)
|
| spot
| quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| just a single lang subpackage
|
| quaid
| c) Publican could be made to support something
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen
|
| Sparks
| d) all of the above
| Apr 01 20:49
|
| spot
| so, if that is important to you, your only real
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| option is to separate out by lang
|
| quaid
| ah
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| spot
| i tried literally for several hours to find
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| another way
|
| quaid
| so if i want to update the French release notes
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| spot
| there just isn't one
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| stickster
| quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| mistaken about that one
|
| quaid
| right now I need to push a whole package
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| quaid
| and with subpackages, i would have to update
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| the base and all the subs?
|
| quaid
| but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| can update them individually.
|
| stickster
| quaid: Right.
| Apr 01 20:50
|
| quaid
| ok
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| stickster
| At least, spot and f13 both say that's
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| how it works.
|
| stickster
| (which to me means bankworthy)
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| quaid
| so
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| quaid
| if (b) is the way, we think it's right and
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| Publican is pushing us in the right direction ...
|
| quaid
| then doesn't our decision fall from that
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| realization?
|
| spot
| well, again, the question is:
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| spot
| how realistic is your need to push single lang
| Apr 01 20:51
|
| subpackages separately?
|
| rudi
| Packaged up I don't know how big it would be,
| Apr 01 20:52
|
| but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in
|
| each language is up to 600 MB here
|
| jjmcd
| We have a ways to go before we get to
| Apr 01 20:52
|
| "thousands", but not as far as we would like
|
| spot
| if it is a real need, then its a need.
| Apr 01 20:52
|
| glezos
| stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to
| Apr 01 20:52
|
| provide any help requested.
|
| quaid
| rudi: hot diggity!
| Apr 01 20:52
|
| stickster
| It's a real need in my experience, IFF.
| Apr 01 20:53
|
| we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web
|
| to RPM.
|
| quaid
| (user guide + install guide + release notes +
| Apr 01 20:53
|
| security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can
|
| expect
|
| spot
| stickster: okay then. your only option is lang
| Apr 01 20:53
|
| separated packages.
|
| quaid
| so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once
| Apr 01 20:53
|
| spot
| your biggest hurdle will be getting them
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| reviewed
|
| glezos
| stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks.
|
| stickster
| glezos: For much the same reasons
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| stickster
| Look, Docs is blazing a trail!
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| quaid
| we need a few sponsors in
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| stickster
| wooo
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| quaid
| Docs
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| *quaid looks at ke4qqq
| Apr 01 20:54
|
| spot
| you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review.
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| spot
| just sponsored.
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| quaid
| ok
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| spot
| and if you're low on that front, let me know
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| quaid
| I don't want the review process in our way.
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| spot
| i can almost certainly sponsor some folks
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| stickster
| I'm sponsored
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| *quaid will sign up
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| stickster
| I maintain some packages already
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| *Sparks would like to be
| Apr 01 20:55
|
| stickster
| What would be *most* helpful is for
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| someoneNotMe() to write the template review.
|
| quaid
| Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting!
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| *izaac (n=izaac@fedora/izaac) has joined
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| Sparks
| If we could manage it all in house, that
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo
|
| stickster
| If the template's there, I can commit to
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| a mess o' reviews.
|
| *Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster
| Apr 01 20:56
|
| for review
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Yeah!
| Apr 01 20:57
|
| *spot hates to run, but is there anything else
| Apr 01 20:57
|
| you need from me? :)
|
| Sparks
| spot: What does it take to knight us?
| Apr 01 20:57
|
| spot
| Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just
| Apr 01 20:57
|
| need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding
|
| of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines
|
| spot
| usually, i do that with a new package review
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| *Sparks has had his package in review since
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| DECEMBER!
|
| spot
| Sparks: email me the bz
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| spot
| i will look at it tomorrow
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| Sparks
| spot: I will but you'll hate it.
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| Sparks
| :)
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else for spot?
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| spot
| is it mono? java?
| Apr 01 20:58
|
| jjmcd
| Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| spot
| fortran77?
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| Sparks
| spot: Security-Guide
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| quaid
| Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| ratifies to get it approved, right?
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Kinda...
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| quaid
| he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| Sparks
| Ok
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| Sparks
| Thanks spot! Go have some supper.
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| spot
| thanks guys, good luck.
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| quaid
| so update the bug with the ratified guidelines
| Apr 01 20:59
|
| as a tickler :)
|
| quaid
| thx Sparks
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| quaid
| spot I mean!
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| *spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| foxhole
|
| Sparks
| spot: Yeah, that's probably needed.
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| Sparks
| Okay, so anything else on the topic?
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| quaid
| Docs_team++
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| Sparks
| Okay... next up is...
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 21:00
|
| Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter
|
| Sparks
| Wow, is this thing old...
| Apr 01 21:01
|
| jjmcd
| stable - better word
| Apr 01 21:01
|
| *leitz
| Apr 01 21:01
|
| (n=leitz@adsl-21-134-243.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
|
| *lfoppiano has quit ("Ex-Chat")
| Apr 01 21:01
|
| Sparks
|
| Apr 01 21:01
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Ha!
| Apr 01 21:02
|
| Sparks
| Oh, it's stable... and buggy
| Apr 01 21:02
|
| Sparks
| So I'm not going to get into it tonight
| Apr 01 21:02
|
| but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll
|
| come back to it next week.
|
| Sparks
| Questions? Comments? Crude remarks?
| Apr 01 21:02
|
| quaid
| mmm, tasty cruft
| Apr 01 21:03
|
| Sparks
| Okay... next up is...
| Apr 01 21:03
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 21:03
|
| CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight?
| Apr 01 21:03
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: ???
| Apr 01 21:04
|
| Sparks
| Okay, he might not be here tonight. I
| Apr 01 21:05
|
| know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules
|
| packaged.
|
| Sparks
| If anyone has some spare time I'm sure
| Apr 01 21:05
|
| he could use you to work on packaging.
|
| Sparks
| Questions? Comments?
| Apr 01 21:05
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 21:05
|
| DocsProject wiki pages changes
|
| Sparks
| Okay, so I archived some pages today
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past.
|
| jjmcd
| You're erasing our history???
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: What tasks are pending for the
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| wiki?
|
| *danielsmw gasps
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| erasing.
|
| Sparks
| gees
| Apr 01 21:06
|
| *Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :)
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| *danielsmw gasps again
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| jjmcd
| That guy is nothing but trouble
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| Sparks
| Have we stayed up past everyone's bed
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| time?
|
| *Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| Open Discussion
|
| jjmcd
| I saw laubersm come in
| Apr 01 21:07
|
| Sparks
| Okay... It's late... does anyone have
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| anything they want to talk about?
|
| *glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys
|
| working on Docs today.
|
| danielsmw
| Oh, I have something to say
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| stickster
| It's better to burn out than to fade
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| away!
|
| *laubersm is on pda = slow typing
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| danielsmw
| A while ago I made a compat package to
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| make mw-render work again
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: yikes
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| danielsmw
| but i'm not getting sponsored because i
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| basically do no other packaging
|
| quaid
| glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| carpenter
|
| danielsmw
| anyone else want to take it and submit?
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| glezos
| quaid, what can we do to change it?
| Apr 01 21:08
|
| *inode0 (n=inode0@fedora/inode0) has joined
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| quaid
| glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :)
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| Sparks
| danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| you have a bz ticket #?
|
| glezos
| oh -- it's just wiki pages then.
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| quaid
| danielsmw: I think you should get to be the
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| packager
|
| danielsmw
| Sparks: yeah, hold on
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| danielsmw
| quaid: a good idea as well
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| quaid
| glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something,
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| stuff that's decentralized
|
| danielsmw
| Sparks: 491946
| Apr 01 21:09
|
| Sparks
| .bug 491946
| Apr 01 21:10
|
| buggbot
| Bug
| Apr 01 21:10
|
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low,
|
| ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
|
| zodbot
| Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request:
| Apr 01 21:10
|
| odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy -
|
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946
|
| buggbot
| Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody,
| Apr 01 21:10
|
| NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
|
| Sparks
| stickster: you said you could review
| Apr 01 21:11
|
| packages?
|
| Sparks
| :)
| Apr 01 21:11
|
| quaid
| how about abadger1999 or spot
| Apr 01 21:11
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, spot!
| Apr 01 21:11
|
| Sparks
| danielsmw: It took my package a while to
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to
|
| do it.
|
| abadger1999
| k. I'll take it.
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| Sparks
| Now that's service right there.
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| quaid
| yeah, we can do better reviewing within this
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| team
|
| abadger1999
| Are we sure that the package can't be
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| ported to the current version of odfpy?
|
| danielsmw
| lol
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| quaid
| and call in favors once it's ready to get
| Apr 01 21:12
|
| sponsorship
|
| Sparks
| quaid: +1
| Apr 01 21:13
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: Did you have anything for us
| Apr 01 21:14
|
| tonight?
|
| laubersm
| no
| Apr 01 21:14
|
| jjmcd
| laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion?
| Apr 01 21:14
|
| Sparks
| laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a
| Apr 01 21:14
|
| chance to get in there with all the background noise going on.
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to
| Apr 01 21:15
|
| appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point.
|
| quaid
| is there an active Release notes tasks list?
| Apr 01 21:15
|
| jjmcd
| I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I
| Apr 01 21:15
|
| guess
|
| jjmcd
| But I see things disappearing from the list as
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| we speak
|
| quaid
| yes plz
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| quaid
| ah, your list
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| quaid
| we just need on of the usual status with tracker
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns
|
| jjmcd
| yes, what I fpasted is basically the short
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| version
|
| *laubersm is teaching this on the road... will
| Apr 01 21:16
|
| check list tomorrow
|
| jjmcd
| I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the
| Apr 01 21:17
|
| list may look different
|
| laubersm
| rn due thur? time in edt?
| Apr 01 21:17
|
| jjmcd
| Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to
| Apr 01 21:17
|
| prepare the pots
|
| jjmcd
| 2359Z that is
| Apr 01 21:18
|
| *warren has quit ("Leaving")
| Apr 01 21:18
|
| jjmcd
| so 19L59 EDT
| Apr 01 21:18
|
| *laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help
| Apr 01 21:18
|
| jjmcd
| No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| how to tear the big POs apart
|
| *zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection)
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| quaid
| I didn't see any more pushback or request for
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| more time
|
| quaid
| but we'll likely see new content for the final
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| notes
|
| quaid
| that might have been in this time, possibly
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| maybe
|
| jjmcd
| quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| better the quality
|
| quaid
| righto
| Apr 01 21:19
|
| rudi
| Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the
| Apr 01 21:20
|
| point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem
|
| for L10N?
|
| *Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
| Apr 01 21:20
|
| jjmcd
| Transifex only can deal with one
| Apr 01 21:20
|
| jjmcd
| Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ......
| Apr 01 21:21
|
| rudi
| But I've seen translators committing
| Apr 01 21:21
|
| translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one
|
| po file in the directories in question
|
| quaid
| via Tx?
| Apr 01 21:22
|
| rudi
| Yep
| Apr 01 21:22
|
| quaid
| well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it
| Apr 01 21:22
|
| today, I still had gaps in my brain about it.
|
| rudi
| Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we
| Apr 01 21:23
|
| can talk about that after the meeting anyway
|
| quaid
| I got that the web interface doesn't have a way
| Apr 01 21:23
|
| to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT
|
| files
|
| quaid
| k
| Apr 01 21:23
|
| Sparks
| Anything else?
| Apr 01 21:23
|
| Sparks
| 5
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| 4
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| 3
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| 2
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| 1
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| Thanks everyone for coming!
| Apr 01 21:24
|
| Sparks
| </meeting>
| Apr 01 21:24
|
