| Sparks
| <meeting id="Docs Project">
| 02:00
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting -
| 02:00
|
| Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
|
| Sparks
| Roll Call!
| 02:00
|
| * Sparks is here
| 02:00
|
| * zoglesby is here
| 02:00
|
| -!- jjmcd [n=jjmcd@75-134-169-186.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #Fedora-meeting
| 02:01
|
| * rudi is here
| 02:02
|
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster
| 02:02
|
| * jjmcd .
| 02:03
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: Can you handle the log for tonight?
| 02:04
|
| zoglesby
| I don't have logs...
| 02:04
|
| zoglesby
| I can scroll and copy and paste
| 02:05
|
| zoglesby
| unless someone can tell me how to log in irssi real fast
| 02:05
|
| -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk
| 02:05
|
| -!- adamw [n=AdamW@redhat/adamw] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
| 02:06
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: No, that's how you do it, I think.
| 02:06
|
| Sparks
| Anyone else for the Docs Meeting?
| 02:06
|
| -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster
| 02:06
|
| zoglesby
| Sparks: I can do it then
| 02:06
|
| * Sparks wonders where everyone is tonight.
| 02:07
|
| jjmcd
| Watching the Wings?
| 02:08
|
| Sparks
| Maybe...
| 02:08
|
| Sparks
| Well, let's get started..
| 02:08
|
| * stickster is sorry he's late
| 02:08
|
| stickster
| I can handle logs if needed.
| 02:08
|
| Sparks
| stickster: Be a backup... I think zoglesby needs to practice... :)
| 02:09
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - FAD SELF 2009 <-- ke4qqq
| 02:09
|
| zoglesby
| ill do it, but I thought irssi had a log function
| 02:09
|
| * stickster is apparently at the mercy of LAG
| 02:09
|
| stickster
| Will do
| 02:09
|
| Sparks
| Well... I don't know where ke4qqq is but I'll talk a little about FAD.
| 02:09
|
| stickster
| It does, IIRC
| 02:09
|
| Sparks
| SELF @ Clemson on Jun 13. The day after we will have a Docs FAD.
| 02:10
|
| stickster
| /RAWLOG open <filename>
| 02:10
|
| Sparks
| We will be looking heavily at F12 processes and how to improve them.
| 02:10
|
| stickster
| Yay!
| 02:11
|
| Sparks
| If you plan on attending please sign up at
| 02:11
|
| https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF_2009
|
| * stickster will be there too, flight is not until ~5:30 or 6:00pm
| 02:11
|
| Sparks
| Cool
| 02:11
|
| Sparks
| Does anyone have any questions about SELF or the FAD?
| 02:11
|
| zoglesby
| is there going to be a conf call number?
| 02:11
|
| jjmcd
| 2008?
| 02:12
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, I think so
| 02:12
|
| * ke4qqq is here
| 02:12
|
| ke4qqq
| but late
| 02:12
|
| -!- adamw [n=AdamW@S010600226b8aa2ea.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:12
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: Anything to add?
| 02:12
|
| -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:12
|
| stickster
| Who's responsible for setting up the call stuff?
| 02:13
|
| stickster
| i.e. hardare
| 02:13
|
| ke4qqq
| nothing here - you covered most of it
| 02:13
|
| stickster
| *hardware, even
| 02:13
|
| ke4qqq
| stickster: I am
| 02:13
|
| stickster
| Do you need anything that I can help provide?
| 02:13
|
| ke4qqq
| ianweller is also bringing his
| 02:13
|
| ke4qqq
| yourself
| 02:13
|
| ke4qqq
| and that's it
| 02:13
|
| stickster
| :-) done!
| 02:13
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the
| 02:13
|
| connection]
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else?
| 02:14
|
| ke4qqq
| eof from me
| 02:14
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: I'm assuming you'll send out an email or put something on the wiki about how
| 02:14
|
| to remotely attend.
|
| ke4qqq
| yeah I need to remmeber the conf number for docs
| 02:14
|
| ke4qqq
| but yes we'll do that
| 02:15
|
| Sparks
| 2008
| 02:15
|
| -!- jsmith [n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:15
|
| ke4qqq
| in the next day or so
| 02:15
|
| Sparks
| Cool
| 02:15
|
| Sparks
| Okay, moving on...
| 02:15
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on
| 02:15
|
| CC license discussion. <--quaid
|
| Sparks
| Last week we started discussing changing our licensing from OPL to CC-BY-SA.
| 02:15
|
| Sparks
| I don't think quaid is with us tonight, though, so I don't know what the status is.
| 02:15
|
| Sparks
| Does anyone have any questions about the change?
| 02:16
|
| stickster
| Were we waiting for something to be resolved regarding compatibility with internal
| 02:16
|
| RH teams?
|
| Sparks
| kinda
| 02:16
|
| * stickster not sure what quaid is meant to answer, and would be happy to send some email
| 02:16
|
| around to check on stuff
|
| Sparks
| I think we were waiting to make sure everything was okay
| 02:17
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:17
|
| Sparks
| quaid said he was going to run with it within the RH community.
| 02:17
|
| ke4qqq
| I think we were also waiting on which specific version of cc-by-sa RH Legal was going
| 02:17
|
| to bless
|
| stickster
| k
| 02:17
|
| stickster
| Yeah, I'm sure there was some further Legal review required in there.
| 02:17
|
| Sparks
| yeah... okay, anything else?
| 02:18
|
| * stickster stands back and lets everyone do their thang
| 02:18
|
| Sparks
| okay, moving on...
| 02:18
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <--
| 02:18
|
| ryanlerch & jjmcd
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: So what's the status on the RN?
| 02:18
|
| jjmcd
| We got an update today I think, still need to check more to be sure it isn't there in
| 02:18
|
| different words
|
| jjmcd
| but all on docs.fp.o
| 02:18
|
| Sparks
| excellent.
| 02:19
|
| jjmcd
| If change only en-US will make it to docs.fp.o for release
| 02:19
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, I saw the update come through earlier.
| 02:19
|
| jjmcd
| but rest will get through on an update
| 02:19
|
| jjmcd
| we are now in a position where we can easily produce an update rpm
| 02:19
|
| Sparks
| Have you already pushed the RPM up?
| 02:19
|
| jjmcd
| from like a week ago
| 02:19
|
| stickster
| That's the standard GA one, right?
| 02:20
|
| stickster
| 11.0.0-2?
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| 11.0.1 I thinlk
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| 11.0.1 I think
| 02:20
|
| stickster
| Ooo
| 02:20
|
| stickster
| That's the zero day? Includes L10n?
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| yes
| 02:20
|
| stickster
| Wow, bonzer
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| but if we have a REAL zero day
| 02:20
|
| jjmcd
| I've also been working on linking to reduce space
| 02:21
|
| jjmcd
| Recognized some odd things with yelp, still not sure whats going on there
| 02:21
|
| jjmcd
| yelp documentation seems to be lacking
| 02:21
|
| jjmcd
| We're not seeing icons in note, tip, etc
| 02:22
|
| jjmcd
| But that appears to be yelp's to do, all we do is say, e.g. <tip>
| 02:22
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: You and I probably need to collaborate on that so I can help you keep your
| 02:22
|
| hair
|
| jjmcd
| Works fine on 10, not on 11. But I'm not 100% certain that I've found all of yelp's
| 02:23
|
| tentacles
|
| jjmcd
| stickster, sounds like a plan
| 02:23
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Anything else?
| 02:23
|
| jjmcd
| No
| 02:23
|
| Sparks
| anyone?
| 02:23
|
| -!- Cheshirc [n=Sam@unaffiliated/cheshirc] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:23
|
| zodbot
| Announcement from my owner (stickster): FESCo nominee town hall meeting at 0200 UTC
| 02:24
|
| (~100 minutes from now) -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls
|
| stickster
| Me realizes "need" is a lot of assumption, maybe "could" is better :-)
| 02:24
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the
| 02:24
|
| connection]
|
| jjmcd
| '-)
| 02:24
|
| Sparks
| Okay, moving on...
| 02:24
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release
| 02:24
|
| Announcement <-- Sparks
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:24
|
| Sparks
| Thanks to everyone who helped out with the Announcement.
| 02:24
|
| Sparks
| It has been tweaked, pounded, deleted, restored, and edited.
| 02:25
|
| Sparks
| I think we are done with it. :) There are links to the RNs and to the Installation
| 02:25
|
| Guide at the bottom so it's good for us.
|
| jjmcd
| I just wish you guys could hear George Dobbs, G3RJV, talk.
| 02:25
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Freq?
| 02:25
|
| -!- joat [n=joat@ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:25
|
| jjmcd
| He's a British minister and sounds just like that
| 02:25
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 02:25
|
| jjmcd
| FDIM ;-)
| 02:26
|
| joat
| whew!
| 02:26
|
| Sparks
| Does anyone have any questions or comments on the Announcement?
| 02:26
|
| Sparks
| Okay, moving on...
| 02:26
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide
| 02:27
|
| <-- ke4qqq & rudi
|
| stickster
| Did anyone let the translators know that they could run with it and abandon the
| 02:27
|
| top part at will?
|
| * stickster can't remember whether he remembered to fire something off on that or not.
| 02:27
|
| -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@pool-96-252-14-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:27
|
| Sparks
| Ummm... not from this office
| 02:27
|
| jsmith
| I thought it was at the list...
| 02:27
|
| -!- ldimaggi_ is now known as ldimaggi_home
| 02:27
|
| jsmith
| s/at the/on the/
| 02:27
|
| jjmcd
| I thouhgt I saw something on l10n
| 02:27
|
| rudi
| stickster
| 02:27
|
| * stickster is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest and doesn't recall
| 02:27
|
| rudi
| Ooops - I see you were commenting on the last topic, NM
| 02:28
|
| rudi
| Install Guide is in translation - Italian now nearly complete
| 02:28
|
| jjmcd
| rudi, thanks for helping Claudia
| 02:29
|
| rudi
| Whole stack of changes and revisions to make after release :)
| 02:29
|
| stickster
| Sparks: I don't see it on fedora-trans-list, could you send something out?
| 02:29
|
| rudi
| jjmcd - NP. I like to lie in wait for new translators ;)
| 02:29
|
| Sparks
| stickster: yeah, I will
| 02:29
|
| stickster
| disco
| 02:29
|
| * stickster notes that the top part is only (barely, arguably) funny in English and
| 02:30
|
| translators are free to come up with their own material.
|
| Sparks
| rudi and ke4qqq: Can we get the final draft of HTML and PDFs up on docs.fp.o no later
| 02:30
|
| than Sunday?
|
| rudi
| Sparks - NP
| 02:30
|
| rudi
| Already good to go.
| 02:31
|
| Sparks
| rudi: Cool. When you figure out where the PDF is going please let Admin know so they
| 02:31
|
| can add it to the cache list.
|
| Sparks
| rudi: Excellent.
| 02:31
|
| rudi
| NP
| 02:31
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else for the Installation Guide?
| 02:31
|
| rudi
| Nope :)
| 02:32
|
| stickster
| Thank you for working on that, guys
| 02:32
|
| Sparks
| Okay... Now I need to bring up a topic that... well, is a little scary.
| 02:33
|
| Sparks
| If you are sensitive to that kind of stuff, you should look away.
| 02:33
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Fedora 12... Only 152 days
| 02:33
|
| to GA... <-- Sparks
|
| Sparks
| Yes... Only 152 days until Fedora 12 is released.
| 02:33
|
| Sparks
| and yes, we need to be looking at this now.
| 02:33
|
| * jjmcd thought he cold wait until FUDcon to kick off F12 RN's
| 02:34
|
| stickster
| Yay F12! Last key on the keyboard!
| 02:34
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Actually the RNs for F12 are already started!
| 02:34
|
| -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:34
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah I saw that
| 02:34
|
| Sparks
| stickster: What happens with F13? Are we skipping it for superstitious reasons?
| 02:34
|
| stickster
| Nope, it's going to be named either "Keating" or "Eamon"
| 02:35
|
| rudi
| Sparks - the USAF did :)
| 02:35
|
| stickster
| Wait, that might not work.
| 02:35
|
| jjmcd
| That will certainly be cornfusing on IRC
| 02:35
|
| stickster
| Oops, I forgot about the whole voting thing :-)
| 02:35
|
| Sparks
| stickster: Oh we can make that happen.
| 02:35
|
| rudi
| How about F13 Stealth :)
| 02:35
|
| stickster
| When f13's IRC starts buzzing him 24/7 I'm going to laugh, and laugh...
| 02:36
|
| Sparks
| Oh that is good...
| 02:36
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, he's going to have to change
| 02:36
|
| zoglesby
| Sparks: what would you like to mention about this? Or just trying to wake us up and
| 02:36
|
| get ready?
|
| stickster
| I remember when he was a different nick, we'll see if he goes back to it. More
| 02:36
|
| deponent sayeth not.
|
| jjmcd
| I figured maybe that was his retirement release
| 02:36
|
| Sparks
| So here's the real scary part...
| 02:37
|
| Sparks
| http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-summary-tasks.html
| 02:37
|
| Sparks
| And here are things I want to work on...
| 02:37
|
| Sparks
| Docs_decisions_for_F12 <-- we'll be working on this during FAD and we'll have answers
| 02:37
|
| then
|
| Sparks
| The Release Notes will be done in Publican
| 02:38
|
| stickster
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12
| 02:38
|
| jjmcd
| uitstekend!
| 02:38
|
| Sparks
| as well as all the guides...
| 02:38
|
| Sparks
| Okay, you can stop laughing now... I know we've said that every release for the past
| 02:38
|
| few... but I'm serious now... kinda
|
| -!- collier_s [n=collier_@cpe-70-112-140-13.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:38
|
| Sparks
| Release Notes will be done early and will be available by Oct 15 (not including
| 02:39
|
| zero-day) <-- this one is for jjmcd
|
| jjmcd
| With no alpha, are beta rn's going to be in n languages
| 02:39
|
| Sparks
| We are going to have to get this stuff squared away. We got "lucky" by F11 being
| 02:39
|
| pushed.
|
| * stickster thinks it's vital that the team center on one toolset.
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| And not just us... folks were still providing changes.
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| not good
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| stickster: yes!
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| There will be no zero-day changes
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| Okay... maybe this is wishful thinking...
| 02:40
|
| Sparks
| but we had way too many changes that seemed to trickle in
| 02:41
|
| jjmcd
| And I think we are just about there. Didn't someone have the f-d-u stuff ported, just
| 02:41
|
| waiting to push?
|
| Sparks
| we need to get folks on the ball with this. Cattle prod or something.
| 02:41
|
| zoglesby
| jjmcd: I think so
| 02:41
|
| jjmcd
| Sparks, well, having ticklers on the schedule for notes to the lists will help
| 02:41
|
| zoglesby
| Rlandmann did them
| 02:41
|
| Sparks
| yes... and that will be something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes.
| 02:41
|
| jjmcd
| That figures - that guy don't sleep
| 02:41
|
| Sparks
| Translation issues must be taken into consideration
| 02:41
|
| Sparks
| We had complaints from the translation teams and I understand their frustration. We
| 02:42
|
| need to work with them on how to not make things harder for them.
|
| -!- Nirmal [n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-be1f7bcbcd369df9] has quit ["Leaving"]
| 02:42
|
| jjmcd
| Sparks, I think we need to be a lot more proactive on communicating to
| 02:42
|
| fedora-trans-list
|
| jjmcd
| as well as restructuring rn's
| 02:43
|
| -!- neverho0d [n=psv@62.68.142.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
| 02:43
|
| Sparks
| And finally... All guides, other than Installation Guide, should be in Publican and
| 02:43
|
| be pushed to docs.fp.o in HTML and PDF formats and should be packaged.
|
| zoglesby
| this is all stuff thats going to be hammered out at FAD right?
| 02:43
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: +1.
| 02:44
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Yes!
| 02:44
|
| stickster
| A lot of it is just sending periodic emails, a few times a week, and anytime you
| 02:44
|
| want to change something.
|
| stickster
| (during the freeze, that is)
| 02:44
|
| stickster
| And more, it really should be soliciting opinions and getting +/-1 from the L10n
| 02:44
|
| community.
|
| Sparks
| stickster: And thank them a lot! They are doing a tough job.
| 02:45
|
| stickster
| no kidding
| 02:45
|
| stickster
| I don't know how they do it. Seriously.
| 02:45
|
| jjmcd
| zoglesby, I am expecting you guys to work hard rather than spending all your time
| 02:45
|
| eating fried chicken and greens
|
| stickster
| mmmffwha-huh?
| 02:45
|
| * jjmcd won't be at SELF :-(
| 02:45
|
| Sparks
| fried chicken??? Where?
| 02:45
|
| stickster
| If there is not some <expletive> good fried chicken in my belly on Sunday I will
| 02:45
|
| be an unhappy camper.
|
| stickster
| Or BBQ.
| 02:46
|
| zoglesby
| jjmcd: I will not be there, to much money to fly from spain
| 02:46
|
| stickster
| I can be flexible.
| 02:46
|
| Sparks
| stickster: You can't get good BBQ over there...
| 02:46
|
| Sparks
| you have to go east of I-95 in NC
| 02:46
|
| jjmcd
| I was looking forward to ke4qqq's en-SC.po tho
| 02:46
|
| * Sparks is hoping to stop by Gaffney, though.
| 02:46
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: heh
| 02:47
|
| stickster
| OK -- back to Sparks' last comment about packaging
| 02:47
|
| stickster
| I like the idea of dropping the whole yelp/OMF thing and going with simple,
| 02:47
|
| installable HTML that appears as a menu entry
|
| stickster
| But we can hash this out at SELF I guess :-)
| 02:48
|
| rudi
| +1 for HTML; which will be more KDE-friendly too
| 02:48
|
| jjmcd
| I like the UI for yelp, the html is kind of a secret, altho a menu would help
| 02:48
|
| rudi
| (or KDE-friendly at all, in fact ;)
| 02:48
|
| Sparks
| +1
| 02:49
|
| * jjmcd hadn't considered KDE
| 02:49
|
| jjmcd
| od XFCE
| 02:49
|
| stickster
| rudi: Interestingly, I had a special KDE khelpcenter installation handled in
| 02:49
|
| fedora-doc-utils (originally docs-common)
|
| jjmcd
| s/od/or
| 02:49
|
| rudi
| jjmcd - nobody ever does :(
| 02:49
|
| stickster
| But I couldn't get anyone to help me make sure I was Doing It Right
| 02:49
|
| rudi
| No dirty GNOME on my machines! :)
| 02:49
|
| stickster
| /KICKBAN rudi
| 02:49
|
| stickster
| You'll have to forgive him, he lives in the upside down part of the world
| 02:50
|
| rudi
| lolz
| 02:50
|
| * stickster apologetically lets Sparks get on with it
| 02:50
|
| Sparks
| No... I did that for one reason... spark discussion!
| 02:51
|
| zoglesby
| stickster: you are mighty off topic today...
| 02:51
|
| jjmcd
| Do we want to package pdf? And why not pdf instead of xml?
| 02:51
|
| jjmcd
| errr html
| 02:51
|
| zoglesby
| I think the pdf looks better
| 02:51
|
| Sparks
| pdf is great for portable... html is better for searching via google or such
| 02:51
|
| Sparks
| So I'd rather have... both!
| 02:52
|
| stickster
| HTML is also more searchable from a variety of indexing utilities the person may
| 02:52
|
| be using
|
| stickster
| Two copies seems wasteful to me.
| 02:52
|
| jjmcd
| I guess they should be packaged separately
| 02:52
|
| zoglesby
| stickster: good point I don't use indexing tools
| 02:52
|
| stickster
| Nothing wrong with that
| 02:52
|
| * stickster points to diveintopython-* RPMs as examples
| 02:53
|
| jjmcd
| Still, 1428 seems like a lot of rpms
| 02:54
|
| Sparks
| Well... just note that we aren't going to have much down time for the F12 release.
| 02:54
|
| -!- Netsplit bartol.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ivazquez, davej, so_solid_moo
| 02:54
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: wha-huh?
| 02:54
|
| jjmcd
| 17 docs * 42 langs * 2 formats
| 02:54
|
| stickster
| Ugh.
| 02:54
|
| -!- Netsplit over, joins: ivazquez, so_solid_moo, davej
| 02:54
|
| Sparks
| but we can continue this conversation on F12 in coming weeks
| 02:54
|
| Sparks
| Wow... That's a lot of packages
| 02:55
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: I could see packaging all langs together
| 02:55
|
| Sparks
| should we have them approved separately?
| 02:55
|
| stickster
| *choke*
| 02:55
|
| jjmcd
| Docs needs to grow some packagers
| 02:55
|
| zoglesby
| I am slowly learning
| 02:56
|
| stickster
| There is a special RPM variable that lets you drop locales; if you guys got with
| 02:56
|
| the RPM developers you might be able to work something out the same way with
|
| documentation RPMs.
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, I think we are going to work on that @ Clemson
| 02:56
|
| zoglesby
| but its all been haskeel stuff
| 02:56
|
| rudi
| packaging all langs together would make for some big packages :) IIRC, over 100MB for
| 02:56
|
| the Install Guide
|
| stickster
| You guys know that /usr/share/locale has the translated messages for everything
| 02:56
|
| you install, right?
|
| stickster
| There are ways to silently drop out all the locales except your current one when
| 02:57
|
| you install a RPM package
|
| stickster
| Cuts down on disk space when it's tight.
| 02:57
|
| stickster
| Actually, the more I think about it....
| 02:57
|
| stickster
| I think that we ought to concentrate on establishing a presence where people can
| 02:58
|
| manually install the documentation RPM they want.
|
| stickster
| PackageKit makes it drop-dead easy point-and-click.
| 02:58
|
| jjmcd
| exactly
| 02:58
|
| stickster
| We do *not* want to put 1428 more RPMs in Fedora.
| 02:58
|
| stickster
| That's just silly.
| 02:58
|
| -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
| 02:58
|
| stickster
| As always, this is just my $0.02
| 02:58
|
| stickster
| I would think that we should put real muscle during the next 30 days after release
| 02:59
|
| into getting Zikula off the ground.
|
| -!- neverho0d [n=psv@62.68.142.31] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 02:59
|
| Sparks
| Yes!
| 02:59
|
| stickster
| And one of the purposes that could serve would be to house the new docs.fp.o
| 02:59
|
| stickster
| Including "pretty-fied" access to the new docs RPMs.
| 02:59
|
| stickster
| There are a number of other things people want out of the Zikula CMS
| 03:00
|
| jjmcd
| That would be way cool
| 03:00
|
| stickster
| But none of it's going to happen unless we make it happen.
| 03:00
|
| stickster
| Our current web publishing sucks rocks.
| 03:00
|
| jjmcd
| I didn't say that
| 03:00
|
| stickster
| haha
| 03:00
|
| stickster
| It was "good enough" (for some value thereof) for Fedora Core 3, but this
| 03:01
|
| community has come a *long* way since then.
|
| stickster
| We've got to have something that is easier to run, easier to administer, and
| 03:01
|
| easier to understand.
|
| zoglesby
| are we still wating on packages or testing?
| 03:01
|
| Sparks
| I think some parts are still waiting to be packaged
| 03:02
|
| stickster
| ke4qqq: Any insight here?
| 03:02
|
| stickster
| Can we make it a point *before* SELF to establish what's left to be done, and try
| 03:02
|
| and do as much as possible of it there, after the decision tasks?
|
| -!- jwb__ [n=jwboyer@24-247-191-219.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:03
|
| Sparks
| Yeah, I'll get with ke4qqq and get a list
| 03:03
|
| -!- jwb [n=jwboyer@fedora/jwb] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
| 03:03
|
| -!- jwb__ is now known as jwb
| 03:04
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else on these topics?
| 03:04
|
| * stickster is really hot to get *something* off the ground so we can get to work on this
| 03:04
|
| zoglesby
| indeed
| 03:04
|
| stickster
| I installed it on my local box and tried it out, it was pretty easy to run and I
| 03:05
|
| was thoroughly impressed.
|
| Sparks
| Okay, let's move on to the last few topics.
| 03:05
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes
| 03:05
|
| Sparks
| I sent an email out to the list earlier today.
| 03:05
|
| Sparks
| It contains a list of all the components of Docs in BZ
| 03:06
|
| jjmcd
| wits a lot of docs which would be really cool to have
| 03:06
|
| Sparks
| At next week's meeting we'll figure out which ones to dump.
| 03:06
|
| -!- mchua [n=mchua@rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:06
|
| jjmcd
| Sparks, I smell an opportunity
| 03:06
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Yes and this is a good time to pull those out, dust them off, and get some of
| 03:06
|
| our new members involved.
|
| jjmcd
| exactly
| 03:07
|
| * mchua apologizes for tardiness
| 03:07
|
| stickster
| mchua!!!!1!!
| 03:07
|
| zoglesby
| what bug do you speak of?
| 03:07
|
| jjmcd
| It can be pretty low pressure but with a lot of flexibility
| 03:07
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: Not a bug... the components that break out the docs on BZ
| 03:07
|
| zoglesby
| I think i found the email
| 03:08
|
| jjmcd
| BZ = military speak for Bugzilla, but you knew that
| 03:08
|
| * zoglesby looks at my pants
| 03:08
|
| zoglesby
| still in the military...
| 03:08
|
| jjmcd
| AF might not talk the same as the Navy tho
| 03:08
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: I didn't realize the AF was still considered a military group.
| 03:09
|
| zoglesby
| nope I don't go to the head
| 03:09
|
| zoglesby
| I am not going to defend them...
| 03:09
|
| Sparks
| okay, I'm not harrassing my AF buddies now
| 03:10
|
| jjmcd
| Why do I get the feeling that zoglesby ain't gonna be a lifer
| 03:10
|
| Sparks
| SO, who NEEDS/WANTS a BZ component for their project?
| 03:10
|
| zoglesby
| I do
| 03:10
|
| -!- cyberpea1 [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
| 03:10
|
| zoglesby
| I have been working on readme-burning-isos to make it foss only
| 03:10
|
| * Sparks thought that was already in BZ
| 03:11
|
| jjmcd
| I think there is a component for that
| 03:11
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: I can assign it to you.
| 03:11
|
| rudi
| zoglesby - when you're done with those, can you shoot me the updated verson so I can
| 03:12
|
| incorporate it into my Publicanized version of the doc?
|
| stickster
| zoglesby: Hang on, did you mean you're *removing* instructions for how people can
| 03:12
|
| use their existing proprietary software to try, and switch to, Fedora?
|
| rudi
| (Heh... or not...)
| 03:12
|
| zoglesby
| nero and such are not parts of windows
| 03:12
|
| jjmcd
| stickster, I think a lot of what was there was old stuff
| 03:12
|
| zoglesby
| and you cant include every application out there
| 03:13
|
| stickster
| zoglesby: You're absolutely right, but Nero is also shipped with a *ton* of
| 03:13
|
| hardware by default
|
| -!- cyberpear [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:13
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the
| 03:13
|
| connection]
|
| stickster
| zoglesby: Can you include a single section for "Other software," where you try to
| 03:13
|
| make instructions that are generic enough to work for most other apps that people
|
| can't get for free?
|
| stickster
| Many people will have pre-installed software from OEMs and we don't want to leave
| 03:14
|
| them out in the cold
|
| zoglesby
| we talked about this before in #docs but we can talk about it again there after this
| 03:14
|
| rudi
| True - it's rare to see a Windows box out there *without* Nero or Sonic on it...
| 03:14
|
| jjmcd
| Of course, with newer versions of Windows you don't need that stuff anymore, and I'm
| 03:14
|
| not so sure I've seen it with any recent drives
|
| stickster
| ok, we don't need to derail here
| 03:14
|
| * stickster &
| 03:14
|
| stickster
| jjmcd: good point
| 03:14
|
| * stickster is happy as long as we can cover whatever comes free with other big-market-share OS
| 03:14
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: Would you like tickets for that to go to you?
| 03:15
|
| stickster
| and some appropriate free aps
| 03:15
|
| stickster
| *apps
| 03:15
|
| zoglesby
| indeed
| 03:15
|
| zoglesby
| to both of you...
| 03:15
|
| Sparks
| Okay...
| 03:15
|
| Sparks
| zoglesby: Do you have an editor?
| 03:16
|
| -!- kulll [n=kulll@203.82.79.101] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
| 03:16
|
| zoglesby
| an editor? like emacs? or a person?
| 03:16
|
| Sparks
| a person
| 03:17
|
| Sparks
| If not... I'll put myself as QA
| 03:17
|
| zoglesby
| not that I know of
| 03:17
|
| Sparks
| ok
| 03:17
|
| stickster
| yay Emacs!
| 03:17
|
| Sparks
| We haven't done that in a while.
| 03:17
|
| * Sparks is proud of stickster for standing up for Emacs on FLOSS Weekly
| 03:18
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 03:18
|
| zoglesby
| indeed again
| 03:18
|
| zoglesby
| emacs comes up a lot of that show
| 03:18
|
| Sparks
| okay... anything else on the BZ stuff?
| 03:18
|
| -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf@124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:19
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Calendar
| 03:19
|
| Sparks
| Okay... I want a calendar.
| 03:19
|
| zoglesby
| me to
| 03:19
|
| Sparks
| I'm thinking about just posting a ical file, or something like that, to docs.fp.o and
| 03:20
|
| giving everyone read access.
|
| Sparks
| Would that be helpful?
| 03:20
|
| Sparks
| It would be the Docs calendar... helpful reminders of deadlines, meetings, events,
| 03:20
|
| etc.
|
| zoglesby
| works for me
| 03:20
|
| zoglesby
| but ideally something with controlled write access would be nice
| 03:21
|
| jjmcd
| Why not in git so anyone can maintain it
| 03:21
|
| stickster
| eventually to be subsumed by Zikula also :-)
| 03:21
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: We could. I'm trying to come up with a solution
| 03:21
|
| Sparks
| Zikula has a calendaring function...
| 03:21
|
| jjmcd
| If Zikula is doing it for us, then maybe a wiki page in the interim
| 03:22
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: The only problem with a wiki page is that it won't incorporate into a calendar
| 03:22
|
| I automatically stare at daily
|
| * Sparks thinks this would be a similar problem
| 03:23
|
| Sparks
| I mean, there are already release calendars out there that I forget to look at.
| 03:23
|
| stickster
| don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
| 03:23
|
| stickster
| An iCal on a site is a start
| 03:23
|
| stickster
| and can probably be imported to Zikula later
| 03:23
|
| Sparks
| Any other ideas?
| 03:24
|
| zoglesby
| buy google and open source google apps?
| 03:24
|
| stickster
| heh
| 03:25
|
| jjmcd
| google calendar sucks swanp water
| 03:25
|
| Sparks
| Whose to say it isn't open source... has anyone asked?
| 03:25
|
| stickster
| It's not
| 03:25
|
| * Sparks likes google calendar
| 03:25
|
| stickster
| The API is open, that's it.
| 03:25
|
| Sparks
| Okay... so I'm going to work on an iCal and attempt to figure out the best way of
| 03:25
|
| doing it
|
| -!- mchua_ [n=mchua@nat/redhat/x-9303b86521641bc4] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:26
|
| -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"]
| 03:26
|
| Sparks
| Okay, moving on...
| 03:26
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - New Guide - Where's the
| 03:26
|
| source?
|
| -!- mchua [n=mchua@rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection
| 03:26
|
| timed out)]
|
| Sparks
| To help people get to our source files I want to build a small guide that helps point
| 03:27
|
| people to where they can obtain source files.
|
| -!- mchua_ is now known as mchua
| 03:28
|
| Sparks
| It's on the wiki right now. If anyone would like to adopt this and move it into
| 03:28
|
| Publican please let me knwo.
|
| Sparks
| It would be an excellent project for a new member
| 03:28
|
| * stickster wonders if Publican may not be necessary for this one, since the need for formal
| 03:28
|
| publication is probably pretty low
|
| Sparks
| stickster: My want was to get it on docs.fp.o
| 03:29
|
| zoglesby
| keep it on the wiki?
| 03:29
|
| stickster
| Yes
| 03:29
|
| Sparks
| But it could be kept on the wiki... it's just easier to get buried there
| 03:29
|
| stickster
| Because the wiki is more or less the center for development efforts
| 03:29
|
| Sparks
| and forgotten
| 03:29
|
| stickster
| We could solve that with clever linking though :-)
| 03:29
|
| stickster
| Essentially, no document on the wiki is important unless you do that.
| 03:30
|
| stickster
| What makes wiki documents *not* forgotten is that you refer to it often :-)
| 03:30
|
| -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who@fedora/sonarguy] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:30
|
| * stickster notes that there is a landing target he just found on the wiki:
| 03:30
|
| http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development
|
| stickster
| I'd *totally* link to this new "Get the Source, Luke" page from there.
| 03:30
|
| Sparks
| Cool
| 03:31
|
| stickster
| that Development page is also linked from here:
| 03:31
|
| stickster
| http://redhat.com/developers/
| 03:31
|
| Sparks
| I'm good with keeping it on the wiki as long as it stays visable
| 03:31
|
| stickster
| I think if you publicize its existence, you won't have any problems with that ;-)
| 03:32
|
| Sparks
| Cool
| 03:32
|
| stickster
| Plenty of people will start linking to it, blogging, etc.
| 03:32
|
| Sparks
| Any questions or comments?
| 03:32
|
| stickster
| It's so obvious, it's a wonder we don't have it yet!
| 03:32
|
| zoglesby
| and if we are wrong we move it later
| 03:32
|
| stickster
| Sure, nothing's written in stone in the end.
| 03:32
|
| stickster
| I just think moving things to Publican makes them less likely to be contributed to
| 03:33
|
| by people outside this group
|
| Sparks
| stickster: yeah, it just hit me the other day... It's almost like you were speaking
| 03:33
|
| to me on a subconscious level
|
| stickster
| That's OK for formal docs that need intense scrutiny
| 03:33
|
| Sparks
| Okay, let's keep it on the wiki
| 03:33
|
| Sparks
| and do some linking
| 03:33
|
| zoglesby
| it would be helpful for other to add stuff, we are bound to forget someones project
| 03:34
|
| * Sparks makes a note to blog about it
| 03:34
|
| -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-dinner
| 03:35
|
| Sparks
| anything else on this?
| 03:36
|
| Sparks
| okay... last thing
| 03:36
|
| -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Go over task table
| 03:36
|
| Sparks
| I want to make this task table more comprehensive and complete.
| 03:37
|
| Sparks
| right now we have task lists and tables all over the place and they aren't being
| 03:37
|
| updated
|
| Sparks
| Please take a look at the table and update it if you have something on there.
| 03:37
|
| -!- cyberpear [n=james@fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
| 03:37
|
| Sparks
| Anyone have any questions?
| 03:38
|
| -!- comraderaikov [n=sseierse@pool-173-64-93-105.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined
| 03:38
|
| #fedora-meeting
|
| Sparks
| Okay, does anyone have anything else about anything?
| 03:39
|
| stickster
| heh
| 03:39
|
| mchua
| Sparks: I'm also trying (now that I've read through a BZ tutorial) the "what if we
| 03:39
|
| used the BZ project-tracking component" experiment
|
| mchua
| on the theory that it may be easier to keep up with one bz instance than with N
| 03:40
|
| separate wiki tables (either that or I'll just form the habit of actually using
|
| bookmarks)
|
| Sparks
| That's an idea
| 03:40
|
| mchua
| and was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the notion (do people not like keeping
| 03:40
|
| tasks in bz? have wikitables worked really, really well before?)
|
| Sparks
| Maybe if we turned "nag" on in BZ it would be better.
| 03:41
|
| mchua
| what would that do? autoemail you when tickets update?
| 03:42
|
| Sparks
| I think it emails you weekly with tasks that you have open
| 03:43
|
| mchua
| Ooh. Handy.
| 03:43
|
| Sparks
| Yeah
| 03:43
|
| * stickster wonders who gets lined up against the wall and shot first when every Red Hat
| 03:44
|
| engineer sees 328 new BZ emails every Monday morning
|
| stickster
| Thankfully, I'm remote. But there are a lot of people in the Westford office that
| 03:44
|
| I like, and would miss!
|
| Sparks
| stickster: I think it's a summary if I remember correctly
| 03:44
|
| stickster
| o_O
| 03:44
|
| stickster
| Can such a feature be opt-in?
| 03:45
|
| Sparks
| I think you get a single email, weekly, with a list of your current tickets
| 03:45
|
| Sparks
| I don't remember
| 03:45
|
| stickster
| mchua: I'm in favor of simplify
| 03:46
|
| stickster
| See right there? I could have typed "simplicity" but "simplify" was SHORTER.
| 03:46
|
| zoglesby
| lol
| 03:46
|
| stickster
| Historically we had a tough time getting Docs people to dig BZ
| 03:47
|
| stickster
| But this is a very different Docs group these days.
| 03:47
|
| ricky
| If you're thinking bugzilla for task tracking, have you looked at trac?
| 03:47
|
| stickster
| ricky: I think the idea was that if other people are already filing docs bugs in
| 03:47
|
| BZ, what about tracking there too.
|
| zoglesby
| we have a trac instance for every doc on fh.o
| 03:47
|
| stickster
| Yeah, and that could be disabled and people diverted to BZ if we like
| 03:48
|
| ricky
| Ah. Is the trac instance usually linked from the doc?
| 03:48
|
| stickster
| Not yet
| 03:48
|
| * mchua notes that based on http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.20/html/whining.html and
| 03:49
|
| http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/groups.html, it seems like people can opt-in to bz
|
| whining. attempting now.
|
| -!- kulll [n=kulll@203.82.91.101] has joined #fedora-meeting
| 03:50
|
| Sparks
| mchua: Let's finish this conversation over in #fedora-docs
| 03:50
|
| * mchua nods
| 03:50
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else before we spill over into hour three?
| 03:50
|
| Sparks
| 5
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| 4
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| 3
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| 2
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| 1
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| Thanks everyone for coming!
| 03:51
|
| Sparks
| </meeting>
| 03:51
|
