| Sparks
| #startmeeting
| 00:00
|
| Sparks
| #maintopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
| 00:01
|
| Sparks
| Hmmm....
| 00:01
|
| Sparks
| #topic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
| 00:01
|
| Sparks
| Roll Call!!!
| 00:01
|
| * Sparks is here
| 00:01
|
| * radsy is here
| 00:01
|
| ianweller
| hi!
| 00:02
|
| * jjmcd is here
| 00:02
|
| joat
| annette!
| 00:02
|
| * ianweller adds something to the agenda really fast
| 00:02
|
| * poelcat here for ~ 30min (schedule worked out)
| 00:02
|
| * ianweller is done adding things to the agenda
| 00:03
|
| Sparks
| poelcat: Great, we'll get you in at the beginning
| 00:03
|
| * quaid is here
| 00:03
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: noted
| 00:03
|
| ianweller
| Sparks: oh you were looking for #meetingtopic earlier instead of #maintopic
| 00:03
|
| ianweller
| Sparks: or you can pass that as an argument to #startmeeting.
| 00:03
|
| * Sparks moves some things around...
| 00:04
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: That's what I was looking for... Gees...
| 00:04
|
| Sparks
| TU
| 00:04
|
| Sparks
| Okay... I've modified the agenda a bit...
| 00:05
|
| Sparks
| #meetingtopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
| 00:06
|
| Sparks
| #topic F12 Calendar <-- poelcat
| 00:06
|
| Sparks
| poelcat has been nice enough to create a calendar for us for the F12 release...
| 00:06
|
| poelcat
| looking to see if there was any feedback on the schedules I proposed
| 00:06
|
| Sparks
| and he sent it to everyone via the list.
| 00:07
|
| Sparks
| Has everyone looked at it?
| 00:07
|
| poelcat
| also curious if there was any interest in the ical/ics file?
| 00:07
|
| * Sparks goes to get the links real quick.
| 00:07
|
| Sparks
| poelcat: I like the ical...
| 00:07
|
| ianweller
| someone have a link handy?
| 00:07
|
| quaid
| it's worth having anyway
| 00:07
|
| jjmcd
| Don't know enough about what we are going to do to know whether it makes sense or not
| 00:07
|
| Sparks
| #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-tasks.html
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| The first link is the docs tasks on a calendar...
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| the second link is the docs + releng tasks on a calendar...
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| and the third link is the docs ics
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: This is the master calendar for the F12 release.
| 00:09
|
| jjmcd
| Yes, but I have significant questions
| 00:09
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: go!
| 00:09
|
| jjmcd
| Now that alpha is a real alpha, for example, does the 1 page RN's make sense
| 00:10
|
| jjmcd
| Before alpha was a hoax, now it is feature complete
| 00:10
|
| poelcat
| i took the previous "beta" tasks and relabled them "alpha"
| 00:10
|
| jjmcd
| That is probably not too bad an approximation
| 00:11
|
| jjmcd
| Especially since we probably don't really know how alpha and beta will turn out
| 00:11
|
| poelcat
| the biggest things to consider are "is there enough time to do the tasks listed and do the order of events look right"
| 00:11
|
| jjmcd
| What Jesse things might not turne out
| 00:12
|
| poelcat
| + based on what you learned in F11... have we factored that in
| 00:12
|
| jjmcd
| I think that is a good start
| 00:12
|
| poelcat
| i can always change/adjust things
| 00:13
|
| poelcat
| and most importantly as you notice things in F12 that don't work well that you want to change for F13... tell me as they happen
| 00:13
|
| poelcat
| and i'll start factoring them into a draft for f13
| 00:13
|
| * poelcat says f13 for one more channel highlight for jesse ;-)
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| Gees, are we already thinking f13?
| 00:14
|
| poelcat
| well nobody else probably is, but I do :)
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| I mean, gees, we just got done with f11 and we are already thinking f13?
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| f13
| 00:14
|
| ianweller
| always think ahead
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| f13... Wow... f13
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 00:15
|
| quaid
| yeah, poor Jesse
| 00:15
|
| quaid
| his nick will light up for _years_
| 00:15
|
| poelcat
| another important thing to consider is handoffs between translation team and docs
| 00:15
|
| poelcat
| and to verify if those look right
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: How long did it take the translators to finish the RN for f11?
| 00:16
|
| jjmcd
| several weeks - three i think
| 00:16
|
| poelcat
| i created another special version for that: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html
| 00:16
|
| Sparks
| and that's with making changes along the way, right?
| 00:16
|
| jjmcd
| yes
| 00:16
|
| * Sparks would still like to figure out a better process so we aren't making so many changes
| 00:17
|
| jjmcd
| I think it ought to go better with propere warning
| 00:17
|
| Sparks
| Yeah
| 00:18
|
| Sparks
| so any more input to the calendar?
| 00:18
|
| Sparks
| poelcat: Can you put our weekly meeting on the ics?
| 00:19
|
| poelcat
| Sparks: i can definitely try... there are some things that make creating the ics not so straight forward
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| I can imagine.
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else about this topic?
| 00:20
|
| poelcat
| as just building the taskjuggler file, but it will either work or it won't
| 00:20
|
| poelcat
| the challenge is landing it at the right time
| 00:20
|
| poelcat
| i'll look into it
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| Thanks
| 00:20
|
| poelcat
| what is the official meeting time in UTC ?
| 00:21
|
| Sparks
| 0001 UTC
| 00:21
|
| Sparks
| and we go for an hour or so
| 00:21
|
| poelcat
| got it.. that's all from me
| 00:21
|
| Sparks
| Thanks!
| 00:21
|
| Sparks
| Anyone else?
| 00:21
|
| Sparks
| #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid
| 00:21
|
| * Sparks hears quaid has news
| 00:22
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Ummm... quaid?
| 00:23
|
| joat
| mebbe he didn't hear his que
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| ok
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| yeah, silent alarm or what
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| I don't have any more news than what was on list
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| i) we seem to have consensus
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| ii) but there is concern that people will feel overridden by the CLA directives being used
| 00:23
|
| quaid
| iii) I'm writing a blog post that gives all the Real and Great Reasons we need to enact the nuclear option in the CLA
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| once that is out there...maybe a thread'O'doom on f-devel-l is called for?
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| the point is, we need to alert people the change is imminent
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| maybe set a deadline for comments? 2 weeks?
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| and spread the word wide and noisy
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| wait
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| then do it
| 00:24
|
| quaid
| <eof.
| 00:25
|
| quaid
| comments? questions?
| 00:25
|
| Sparks
| Well... I'd like a quick vote... Does anyone have any problem with using the CLA to push the license change?
| 00:25
|
| quaid
| vote--
| 00:25
|
| Sparks
| +1 to changing the license using the nuclear option
| 00:25
|
| quaid
| we have a consensus on list
| 00:25
|
| rudi
| +1
| 00:25
|
| quaid
| if there are objections,we need to take them right back to the discussion, is all I'm saying.
| 00:25
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Yeah, I just want to make sure no one here has any problems that we can work on now.
| 00:25
|
| quaid
| so even a single -1 == back to the list IMO
| 00:26
|
| Sparks
| yes
| 00:26
|
| quaid
| did I sufficiently answer Sparks questions on list?
| 00:26
|
| quaid
| that was what made me realize I needed to do a wider post; reexplain from the top,etc.
| 00:26
|
| ianweller
| what?
| 00:26
|
| quaid
| ianweller: your coffee is boiling over
| 00:26
|
| ianweller
| ocrap
| 00:27
|
| ianweller
| ;)
| 00:27
|
| ianweller
| quaid: oh god a thread'O'doom?!
| 00:27
|
| ianweller
| i don't need more email than i'm already getting
| 00:27
|
| Sparks
| Anyone care to put a vote down or am I to assume that no vote is a +1 vote?
| 00:28
|
| jjmcd
| I'll vote 0
| 00:28
|
| quaid
| ianweller: I expect arrows, mud,and pitch
| 00:28
|
| ianweller
| quaid: i expect all of that to be flaming. :(
| 00:29
|
| quaid
| when we tell people that the CLA needs to be used to change a license like that
| 00:29
|
| * ianweller votes 0 on the proposal, i just wanna nuclearize it now ;)
| 00:29
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: are you unsettled by something?
| 00:29
|
| quaid
| at the least,folks,make sure I answer all the questions when I write this article :)
| 00:29
|
| jjmcd
| I like the CC by SA, a little uncomfortable wit pushing too hard
| 00:29
|
| quaid
| my argument is that we are on a teeny, tiny island all by ourselves
| 00:30
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: The problem we have is the problem of calling in everyone that has ever touched anything that is covered by the license. We just can't do that.
| 00:30
|
| quaid
| for example,we rewrite GNOME docs each release.
| 00:30
|
| quaid
| for our ability to do open content
| 00:30
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah, the best we can do is to get all our current contributors to buy in
| 00:30
|
| quaid
| the relicensing is crucial
| 00:30
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Yes and I think we (Docs) has been doing that.
| 00:31
|
| quaid
| ok, I'll write my piece, cross post it,and see where that goes
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| I haven't heard objections, but I haven't heard from laubersm, don't recall Zach
| 00:31
|
| quaid
| OK with setting a 2 week deadline for discussion?
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| Sounds like a plan
| 00:32
|
| quaid
| Apache consensus rules are in effect
| 00:32
|
| Sparks
| quaid: Yes... 2 weeks from today. If we need to we'll hold a town hall meeting and I'll put you at the front of the room. :)
| 00:32
|
| quaid
| if someone doesn't speak up in a reasonable period of time, that is taken as consent :)
| 00:32
|
| quaid
| Sparks: OK!
| 00:32
|
| jjmcd
| But lets make a special effort to be sure the F10 contributors have heard the story
| 00:32
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 00:32
|
| quaid
| jjmcd: how?
| 00:33
|
| quaid
| that is, we've been discussing it on list for 6 weeks
| 00:33
|
| jjmcd
| Direct email to those that haven't been here - I doubt there's more than 2 or three
| 00:33
|
| quaid
| ok
| 00:33
|
| * quaid will do that
| 00:33
|
| jjmcd
| I don't forsee a problem, but some have been busy lately, I'm thinking of laubersm but I suspect there may be one or two others
| 00:34
|
| Sparks
| quaid: We can hit the list that goes to everyone that is on the Docs FAS group
| 00:34
|
| quaid
| Sparks: but they should all be on f-docs-l
| 00:34
|
| quaid
| I'll email people
| 00:34
|
| quaid
| who committed changes to any repo for the last two releases
| 00:34
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah, I don't know we need to go after the whole list - quaid - exactly
| 00:35
|
| quaid
| but I don't want to circumnavigate the established channels of communication.
| 00:35
|
| quaid
| the list == the channel, but hey :)
| 00:35
|
| jjmcd
| ;-)
| 00:35
|
| jjmcd
| After listening to Paul and Jan maybe I'm a little over sensitive
| 00:36
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else?
| 00:36
|
| Sparks
| #topic Ian has news from CC on the licensing change marketing whatnottery
| 00:37
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: Go!
| 00:38
|
| Sparks
| Is someone else asleep?
| 00:39
|
| jjmcd
| hmmm - while I was watching ianweller changed from 10 minutes ago to 144 minutes ago, whats up with that
| 00:40
|
| Sparks
| Okay, we'll come back to him.
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| what?
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| i'm here
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| sorry :)
| 00:40
|
| quaid
| marketeer time
| 00:40
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: ^^^ topic
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00003.html <-- got this from CC today.
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| it's been sent to fedora-docs-list as you can tell.
| 00:40
|
| ianweller
| that's all i've got ;)
| 00:40
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: Well... what is it?
| 00:42
|
| ianweller
| that they're willing to make a blog post
| 00:42
|
| ianweller
| saying "hey look they switched licenses whee"
| 00:42
|
| ianweller
| and we just need top ing them when we're ready to do that
| 00:42
|
| Sparks
| cool
| 00:43
|
| Sparks
| Anyone have any questions?
| 00:43
|
| Sparks
| #topic Shared open-source style guide
| 00:44
|
| Sparks
| ke4qqq: You around tonight?
| 00:44
|
| Sparks
| I guess not.
| 00:45
|
| Sparks
| I don't think there has been any change. Does anyone have any questions or comments?
| 00:45
|
| ianweller
| no
| 00:46
|
| Sparks
| #topic Bugzilla Component Changes
| 00:46
|
| Sparks
| #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table
| 00:46
|
| Sparks
| So I started the process of moving files around and removing the products from our BZ component.
| 00:46
|
| Sparks
| If anyone has a project that needs to be in BZ please let me know and I can get you setup pretty quickly.
| 00:47
|
| Sparks
| Anyone have any questions or comments?
| 00:47
|
| Sparks
| #topic
| 00:48
|
| Sparks
| #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
| 00:48
|
| Sparks
| #link http://tinyurl.com/lgx98o
| 00:48
|
| Sparks
| If everyone would take a look at the above link...
| 00:48
|
| ianweller
| those tickets are just outstanding! ;)
| 00:49
|
| Sparks
| these are the outstanding tickets that were opened during the month of June that haven't been accepted.
| 00:49
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: Yes they are because these are tickets that people filed because they care enough about our products!
| 00:49
|
| ianweller
| :D
| 00:49
|
| Sparks
| I'm not going to go through them all tonight but I would like to start running through the ones we need to work on so we can respond to the appropriately.
| 00:50
|
| Sparks
| but feel free to take one!
| 00:51
|
| Sparks
| questions?
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| ianweller: What's the word on wikibot?
| 00:52
|
| ianweller
| it's on my to-do list
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| Okay...
| 00:53
|
| ianweller
| IOW, nothing. :(
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| Yeah... Well, we should probably revisit this again and see what needs to be done.
| 00:54
|
| Sparks
| questions?
| 00:54
|
| Sparks
| #topic With the new definition of alpha and beta, do we need to treat release notes differently?
| 00:54
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Did you put this up there?
| 00:54
|
| jjmcd
| Yes
| 00:55
|
| jjmcd
| I wonder whether the one pager is in keeping with "feature complete"
| 00:55
|
| jjmcd
| Not sure that it is realistic to do much more so early tho
| 00:55
|
| Sparks
| the one pager? Is this the idea stickster_afk had at the FAD?
| 00:55
|
| jjmcd
| But I haven't fully digested the schedule and what it means
| 00:56
|
| jjmcd
| No, that's what poelcat just sait
| 00:56
|
| jjmcd
| said
| 00:56
|
| jjmcd
| What we used to do for beta
| 00:56
|
| Sparks
| Ahhh
| 00:56
|
| Sparks
| Well, if you want to do something different this time around I'm all ears.
| 00:57
|
| jjmcd
| f13 really wants alpha and beta to actually be alpha and beta, and I understand his point
| 00:57
|
| jjmcd
| but I obviously can't predict whether what he wants will actually happen
| 00:57
|
| jjmcd
| So perhaps this needs another week for a more meaningful discussion, with proposals for ppl to chew on
| 00:58
|
| Sparks
| worksfor me
| 00:59
|
| jjmcd
| I'll digest it all over the next week
| 00:59
|
| jjmcd
| Still haven't dug out from my email since I was away
| 00:59
|
| jjmcd
| All that Berliner Kindl you know
| 00:59
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 01:00
|
| Sparks
| okay, so we'll discuss it more next week.
| 01:00
|
| jjmcd
| Also I spoke with glezos and the German translator about their problems
| 01:01
|
| Sparks
| Anything to report?
| 01:01
|
| jjmcd
| Not really, just what you would expect, except perhaps
| 01:01
|
| jjmcd
| that the new transifex will help us both
| 01:01
|
| rudi
| Amen
| 01:01
|
| Sparks
| when will that be up and running?
| 01:02
|
| rudi
| Well, it's finally been packaged
| 01:02
|
| Sparks
| That's encouraging.
| 01:02
|
| rudi
| So I guess RSN :)
| 01:02
|
| rudi
| As I understand, that was the blocker
| 01:03
|
| quaid
| usually is
| 01:03
|
| rudi
| ;)
| 01:03
|
| jjmcd
| Also
| 01:03
|
| * quaid >muffle, muffle, murg<
| 01:03
|
| jjmcd
| spot didn't laugh too much at my spec file, so I guess I have more confidence in pushing to do whatever I need to in order to won that and get Jesse out of the loop
| 01:04
|
| * ianweller has to run, bye
| 01:04
|
| jjmcd
| s/won/own
| 01:04
|
| jjmcd
| seeYA ianweller
| 01:04
|
| jjmcd
| eof
| 01:06
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else?
| 01:06
|
| Sparks
| #topic Guide needs?
| 01:06
|
| Sparks
| Anyone have any needs for their guides?
| 01:06
|
| Sparks
| I guess not...
| 01:07
|
| Sparks
| #topic New Guides
| 01:07
|
| Sparks
| Okay, someone put down the RPM guide
| 01:07
|
| Sparks
| Who was that?
| 01:07
|
| jjmcd
| Florian asked if we could take over the rpm guide
| 01:08
|
| jjmcd
| apparently the guide in docs.fp.o might not be THE guide
| 01:08
|
| Sparks
| Who is Florian?
| 01:08
|
| jjmcd
| he is going to send me a link to their repo so I can look at it
| 01:08
|
| Sparks
| I have no problems with it. I have a ticket open for it to be moved to the wiki for redevelopment.
| 01:08
|
| jjmcd
| and then come to one of our meetings to discuss it
| 01:08
|
| Sparks
| .bug 508930
| 01:09
|
| jjmcd
| I see that, not sure that wiki is the desired target but
| 01:09
|
| buggbot
| Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
| 01:09
|
| zodbot
| Sparks: Bug 508930 Move RPM Guide to wiki - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930
| 01:09
|
| buggbot
| Bug 508930: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
| 01:09
|
| quaid
| um what?
| 01:09
|
| quaid
| which guide is not which guide?
| 01:09
|
| jjmcd
| we can discuss it when we have him on channel
| 01:09
|
| quaid
| ok
| 01:09
|
| quaid
| fwiw, yeah, converting from XML to wiki is rarely a good idea :)
| 01:09
|
| jjmcd
| I think he is talking about the guide at rpm.org
| 01:10
|
| jjmcd
| Evidently the rpm guys can't even build th guide
| 01:10
|
| Sparks
| quaid: I know but things die in docs.fp.o, too
| 01:10
|
| jjmcd
| So for now, jut a heads up that this is coming
| 01:11
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Cool
| 01:11
|
| quaid
| oh, I wonder if the one at rpm.org is the same guide, of sourts
| 01:11
|
| Sparks
| Anyone else?
| 01:11
|
| quaid
| ok, I'll hold my fire.
| 01:11
|
| Sparks
| #topic All other business
| 01:13
|
| Sparks
| Okay, does anyone have anything else?
| 01:13
|
| Sparks
| 5
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| 4
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| 3
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| 2
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| 1
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| Thanks for everyone coming!
| 01:14
|
| Sparks
| #endmeeting
| 01:14
|
