Meetings:EPEL 2009-03-27

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--> You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=stahnma@fedora/stahnma). 16:03
*** The channel topic is "EPEL meeting - who's here?". 16:03
*** The topic was set by nirik on 03/27/2009 04:02:54 PM. 16:03
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* Jeff_S 16:03
* maxamillion 16:03
* stahnma says hello 16:03
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Jeff_S biggest epel meeting all year :) 16:03
stahnma w00t 16:03
nirik yeah... :) 16:03
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nirik SmootherFrOgZ / stahnma ? 16:04
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nirik Welcome. We have at least many of the interested parties. ;) 16:05
maxamillion sweet :) 16:05
maxamillion nirik: did you formalize the topics for the day? 16:05
nirik So, first of all I don't have much of an agenda, but I would really like us to try meeting every week... if only to touch base on things that are being worked on or the like. 16:05
nirik I do have a few things we can touch on/discuss tho. 16:06
*** nirik sets the channel topic to "EPEL meeting - epel-announce list.". 16:06
nirik I think we should make a epel-announce list for important announcements for our end users. 16:06
stahnma ++ 16:06
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nirik we need to decide tho whats acceptable content for that list. Updates pushes? Only stable updates pushes? meeting announcements? 16:07
nirik thoughts? 16:07
stahnma I guess I would think only things that end-users would care about 16:08
stahnma the -devel list is light traffic if you are interested in meetings, happenings etc 16:08
Jeff_S I think having all update pushes there would be nice 16:08
maxamillion +1 16:08
nirik Jeff_S: yeah, but that might be too much traffic for some people. 16:08
stahnma update pushes would be too much? 16:09
maxamillion well, i think the once a month updates push would be fine for -announce, but the build reports should stay -devel 16:09
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Jeff_S maxamillion: ^^ agreed 16:09
stahnma yes 16:09
nirik I was thinking this could be used for things like "Hey, I am pushing heartbeat into epel, it will be newer than centos, so please test and make sure it's ok before it goes stable' 16:09
maxamillion i really like the updates info emails I get from RHN 16:09
Jeff_S sorry, that's what I was trying to say :) I should be more clear 16:09
nirik or 'X needs to update in some incompatible way. 16:10
maxamillion Jeff_S: no worries ;) 16:10
stahnma I like it 16:10
Jeff_S nirik: I'd say that still belongs in the regular list... most end users don't care about that 16:10
nirik I think stable ones would possibly be ok... once a month. 16:10
stahnma I'll open the ticket with infra 16:10
stahnma if we pass it 16:10
stahnma  :) 16:10
nirik but testing is much more often. 16:10
nirik Jeff_S: well, I suppose... how about updates that need operator attention? ie, mediawiki updates and you need to run a db upgrade script, or duplicity changes command line options. 16:11
stahnma any opposition? 16:11
Jeff_S nirik: that makes sense to me 16:11
* nirik is happy to moderate it... I already do the epel-devel list and some others. 16:11
Jeff_S if you add me on I'm glad to help 16:11
stahnma me too 16:12
Jeff_S we should aim to keep it as low traffic as possible IMO, otherwise people won't read it at all 16:12
nirik Jeff_S: agreed. 16:12
stahnma yes 16:12
nirik so stable updates and only important announcements that end users might care about? 16:12
stahnma I think so 16:12
maxamillion no opposition here :) 16:12
nirik make it so! :) 16:13
stahnma ok 16:13
stahnma filing ticket 16:13
Jeff_S great 16:13
nirik anything else on mailing list? or shall we move on? 16:13
stahnma move on for me 16:14
*** nirik sets the channel topic to "EPEL meeting - bugs". 16:14
nirik so, epel bugs keep rising. ;) What would folks think about trying to organize a bug day or something so we could all try and fix things up... 16:15
nirik https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora%20EPEL&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=ON_DEV&bug_status=ON_QA&bug_status=RELEASE_PENDING&bug_status=POST&bug_status=FAILS_QA 16:15
buggbot <http://tinyurl.com/dxq2hk> (at bugzilla.redhat.com) 16:15
Jeff_S bug day could be nice 16:15
nirik 118 bugs now. 16:15
Jeff_S might get some more people helping out 16:15
stahnma I've been meaning to grab some 16:15
stahnma but failing at it 16:15
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nirik some can probibly just be closed out... or some could have missing deps branched and built to fix missing deps. 16:15
nirik anyone want to organize such a thing? ;) 16:16
stahnma (ticket 1296 mailing list) 16:16
maxamillion yeah, i could see that as being extremely helpful and possibly enable some coordination and possible co-maintainer creation for packages that need a little extra help 16:16
stahnma I can send out a mail to the list 16:16
stahnma and ask for dates and volunteers 16:16
nirik I'd be happy to try and be available to do quick branches for missing deps... 16:16
stahnma ok 16:17
Jeff_S would someone like to suggest a day on the mailing list? I think it's a great idea 16:17
stahnma I still think it's unclear on how to get fedora-packages branched for EPEL (sidenote) 16:17
nirik I think we should have it far enough out that people could plan on it... 16:17
nirik a few weeks at least. 16:17
stahnma because sometimes you use a bug, sometimes people want email...sometimes it seems different still 16:17
Jeff_S fine by me 16:17
nirik thanks stahnma 16:17
stahnma yeah, I'll do it 16:18
nirik yeah, we should try and clarify it to one page on the wiki thats short and sweet. 16:18
nirik or step by step or something easy to follow. 16:18
maxamillion We are going to actually get a RedHat Satellite server here and we are making EPEL a channel in our Satellite server so packaging for EPEL will actually become part of my job since we will use it in production (more so than now) ... so bug days mon-fri would be great :) 16:18
Jeff_S sorry but I've got to run to another meeting :( thanks, everyone for coming 16:19
nirik maxamillion: cool. 16:19
stahnma thanks Jeff_S! 16:19
nirik thanks Jeff_S. See you next week at same time? ;) 16:19
stahnma maxamillion: we are in a similar situation. 16:19
Jeff_S yep, and I usually don't have other meetings around this time, so it should be good 16:19
*** nirik sets the channel topic to "EPEL meeting - koji/bodhi". 16:20
nirik dgilmore: you have any update on this? still trying to catch lmacken? 16:20
maxamillion stahnma: sweet! :D 16:20
* SmootherFrOgZ is here (a bit late, sorry) 16:20
maxamillion i'm very excited to be able to work on packaging for the community at large as part of my daily duties 16:20
dgilmore nirik: lmakcen updated the ticket 16:20
dgilmore we have a list of things needed to be done 16:21
dgilmore just need to do it 16:21
dgilmore and test 16:21
stahnma do you have ticket number? 16:21
SmootherFrOgZ nirik: i proposed myself to help him getting things done 16:21
nirik dgilmore: yeah, saw that. ;) We also need to import epel into koji and request a epel-releng1 instance? 16:21
stahnma (just so I can learn) 16:21
* nirik is happy to help or test too. 16:21
dgilmore nirik: i need to make the epel-releng box 16:21
stahnma will there be a separate epel-releng group too? 16:21
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dgilmore we woint import epel into koji until we are ready to switch 16:21
dgilmore so at least when we have the bodhi changes made 16:22
dgilmore and teh releng box up 16:22
nirik ok. 16:22
nirik also, I guess we decided to stick to monthy stable pushes? or do we want to do them more often after the change? 16:22
dgilmore https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1230 16:23
stahnma thanks 16:23
dgilmore stahnma: there is a epel_signers group now 16:23
dgilmore we probably should rename it to epel-releng 16:23
stahnma ok 16:23
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SmootherFrOgZ dgilmore: yes, that'd be great 16:23
dgilmore nirik: im in favour of having maintainers push to stable when they think its ready 16:24
nirik dgilmore: yeah. 16:24
stahnma I am also 16:24
nirik dgilmore: well, sure, but someone has to do the pushes... do we do them all the time? so small numbers of new stable packages all the time, or do we save them up and do a monthly push. 16:24
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SmootherFrOgZ nirik: monthly 16:25
nirik (except for security updates or urgent bugfixes, etc) 16:25
nirik monthly is nice as people can plan for them all to arrive then. 16:25
stahnma yes 16:26
SmootherFrOgZ nirik: correct 16:26
SmootherFrOgZ that's why we need bodhi :) 16:26
nirik speaking of which, stable push next week. :) dgilmore can you prep that and push it? I can try but the last time I tried a push I got that weird createrepo error. ;( 16:26
dgilmore nirik: i think small batches more often 16:26
dgilmore maybe weekly 16:27
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dgilmore nirik: sure, ill check with knurd he indicated he would do it 16:27
nirik I am ok with more often if everyone else wants that... but that also means more traffic to the announce list. ;) 16:27
nirik note that a maintainer saying 'push my update to stable' in bodhi, still waits for a signer to sign and push those packages... 16:28
dgilmore nirik: with koji/bodhi it will be one email per package 16:28
dgilmore not one per push 16:28
nirik so with bodhi we get at least maintainers pushing instead of us just assuming something is ok after a month, but it doesn't need to change our push schedule. 16:28
dgilmore right 16:28
nirik just to clarify. 16:28
dgilmore nirik: the email quantatity would be the same if we do weekly or monthly 16:28
nirik one email per package? hum. I thought it did a single report on the push. 16:29
dgilmore it will just be spread out more 16:29
dgilmore nope 16:29
dgilmore nirik: same as what happens with fedora updates 16:29
dgilmore testing does one email per push 16:29
dgilmore stable does one per package 16:29
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nirik ah, thats what I was seeing: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-March/msg00063.html 16:30
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nirik I think one email per push would be nicer. 16:30
dgilmore nirik: you loose all the information on why the update was pushed 16:31
nirik the problem with spreading out the stable pushes more would be that people are expecting all of them on the 1st of the month, and might be surprised when a package they use shows up in stable some other time. 16:31
dgilmore or you end up with a large ungodly email 16:31
nirik that seems to have update info in it. 16:32
nirik yeah, it's a big email. 16:32
dgilmore nirik: 50/100 packages == big email 16:32
nirik sure, but if we do one email per package, perhaps we should have a epel-package-announce or something for that... 16:33
dgilmore maybe yeah 16:35
dgilmore then a summary email could be sent to epel-announce 16:35
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nirik I guess we can ask on the list and see what people prefer. I can do that. 16:36
stahnma ok 16:36
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nirik ok, anything else on koji/bodhi? 16:36
nirik or do we want to assume we should get a epel-package-announce for those emails? 16:37
maxamillion i want it running yesterday? 16:37
nirik where does fedora send those bodhi emails? 16:37
maxamillion nirik: we might want to do that 16:37
dgilmore nirik: fedora-package-announce 16:37
maxamillion oh ok ... so that's taken care of :) 16:38
dgilmore https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-package-announce/2009-March/thread.html 16:38
nirik ok, should we just request that list now? or what do people think about updates announcements? 16:38
stahnma well, perhaps we should wait until it's a need 16:38
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stahnma we might think of of something better between now and the time bodhi/koji is live 16:39
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nirik ok, fair enough. 16:40
*** nirik sets the channel topic to "EPEL meeting - Open Floor". 16:40
nirik I don't think I have anything else... does anyone else? 16:40
SmootherFrOgZ stahnma: we can also point our current push-notification to that new list 16:40
dgilmore nirik: epel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org has been created 16:41
nirik SmootherFrOgZ: the stable ones? 16:41
nirik dgilmore: cool. 16:41
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SmootherFrOgZ nirik: stable or both as you want 16:41
nirik I think the testing ones are good to stay on the devel list. 16:42
dgilmore nirik: i agree 16:42
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SmootherFrOgZ k 16:42
stahnma I don't have antyhing else 16:42
nirik lets see what we can think of before bodhi is live... 16:42
stahnma at least right now 16:42
dgilmore https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/epel-announce 16:42
stahnma unless anybody wants to maintain python-twisted 16:42
nirik oh wait, I had one more. 16:43
nirik If anyone is interested in going to some of the SIGs... like perl-sig or some others and asking if they want to try and get more packages in epel that might be good. 16:43
stahnma I've worked with a few of the perl-SIG guys a few times 16:44
stahnma I can try 16:44
stahnma not sure about python, R, KDE, etc 16:44
* nirik has enough packages, thanks. ;) 16:44
maxamillion stahnma: i don't necessarily *want* python-twisted because i've been told it can be a pain to package, i know a number of people who use it through EPEL so if it is needed, i could take it 16:44
stahnma same for me 16:44
stahnma  :) 16:44
stahnma we need some good co-maintainers 16:45
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stahnma who are willing to take on EPEL packages 16:45
stahnma I think we have a hole there 16:45
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nirik fair enough. 16:45
nirik ok, I can't think of anything else. I will mail epel-devel about how often people would like stable pushes after bodhi. 16:46
nirik yeah, more co-maintainers would be always nice. 16:46
stahnma ok 16:46
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maxamillion stahnma: i would be willing to co-maintain depending on the package .... i'm willing to comaintain anything i am either familiar with or is written in a language i'm familiar enough with to pick up in case i need to patch 16:47
stahnma ok 16:47
stahnma we have a few things that need branching and maintainers 16:47
stahnma really, I'll look through the list/bugs 16:47
maxamillion i'm comfortable with C and Python for just jumping in 16:48
nirik stahnma: you have a list? I could possibly pick up a few depending on what they werere. 16:48
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stahnma I don't right now...but I can make one 16:48
stahnma list == mailing list in this case 16:49
stahnma and I know I have thrown together dozens of RPMs in my $DAYJOB satellite that I wish were in EPEL (pulled from Fedora and rebuilt) 16:49
stahnma if I chase all that down, it could help 16:49
stahnma Ok, are we done? 16:51
stahnma END 16:51
nirik yeah. 16:51
nirik ok, anyone have anything else, or shall we adjorn? 16:52
stahnma I'll send IRC log 16:52
nirik thanks for coming everyone... see you all next week? 16:52
stahnma hope so! 16:52
nirik oh shoot. I just thought of another thing: for tag requests with koji, should we re-use relengs trac, or make our own? or use some other method? 16:53
nirik stahnma: cool. If you could upload it to the wiki too that would be great. 16:53
stahnma oh yeah, there is some html parser or color coder 16:53
stahnma or something 16:53
stahnma I am supposed to use 16:53
dgilmore nirik: probably epel-releng 16:54
SmootherFrOgZ i'd say epel-releng with own trac 16:54
SmootherFrOgZ dgilmore: +1 16:54
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nirik stahnma: yum install irclog2html; irclog2html -s mediawiki log.txt ; paste the log.txt.html file into the wiki in Meetings:EPEL_2009-03-27 16:55
nirik dgilmore: yeah, likely best. Or we could do them on epel-devel. ;) 16:55

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