Mentors Meeting Minutes 2009-02-15

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-!- herlo changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Mentors Meeting 16:00
Douglas_ Alejandro Acosta, ambassador, Chihuahua, México 16:00
kital JoergSimon 16:01
rsc Robert Scheck 16:01
bochecha Mathieu Bridon 16:01
herlo Clint Savage 16:01
herlo well, 6 so far, that's much better than last time :) 16:02
kital  ;) 16:02
* herlo gives another couple minutes for anyone else to join, then we'll start. 16:02
herlo Okay, so let's begin 16:05
herlo I've emailed out the agenda, so if anyone wishes to follow along, that's where I am going to work from. I hope to have us a meetings page next time as well as a place to put tasks and anything else we find necessary 16:05
kital +1 16:06
herlo Item 1: discuss the previous plan for mentors and 16:06
herlo integrate as much positive from it into a new process. 16:06
herlo I'm specifically referring to this page 16:07
herlo https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors 16:07
herlo please take a moment to read the process there, then let's discuss 16:07
kital  ! 16:07
herlo kital: go ahead 16:08
kital as you can see on that page the mentor is choosed by the new contributor 16:08
herlo yes 16:08
kital in the Ambassadors most of you know i assign a mentor to a new mentor after sponsoring 16:09
kital but 16:09
kital i think we need to start mentoring before choosing the right group 16:09
herlo agreed 16:09
kital eof 16:09
herlo Part of the problem I see with the process there is that we need to start with the new contributor as soon as they join the project, not when they come to us for help. 16:10
herlo which is pretty much what kital just said. 16:10
herlo any other thoughts there? 16:12
kital i think before all other we have to give them a helping hand 16:12
kital as i said in my presentation on FAD 16:12
kital who can help you 16:12
herlo +1 16:12
Douglas_ +1 16:12
bochecha  ! 16:12
herlo bochecha: please go ahead 16:13
bochecha couldn't we have a page on FAS, that is displayed when you open your account, and that links to the wiki page, talks about mentoring, etc. ? 16:13
bochecha eof 16:13
herlo bochecha: yes, and we should +1 16:13
kital could be a start 16:13
herlo bochecha: have you heard of the MyFedora Project? 16:13
bochecha in fact, the problem I see with the mentoring right now is that... who knows about it ? 16:14
bochecha I certainly did not when I joined Fedora 16:14
bochecha herlo, yes, looks great 16:14
bochecha mentoring could be integrated in it too 16:14
herlo one of the goals of mine is to give real-time statistics within Fedora, one thign the mentors could obtain is when a new contributor joins... 16:14
herlo we could have it on our myfedora page 16:15
bochecha when a new contributor joins, he could say in MyFedora « I want to do _this task_ « and MyFedora directs him to available mentors. Mentors could be notified in MyFedora, etc. 16:15
herlo which could make it easy for us to follow up. Because otherwise, how do we know when someone joins the Fedora Project unless they join a specific group. 16:15
bochecha just like the « be friends » in Facebook, only it would be useful :) 16:15
herlo bochecha: sure, and we'll get some of that. But I think we 'as Mentors' should be proactive because most contributors aren't comfortable in this new environment and don't understand the community well enough to really participate. 16:16
herlo bochecha: and adding that functionality you mention into MyFedora will be critical 16:17
rsc well, directly pointing to the mentors is IMHO not the right thing. People should first pointed to the groups, projects, teams and then to mentors. 16:17
herlo rsc: please explain why 16:17
EvilBob mentoring has always happened in the groups, Mentoring happens to some degree all the time without this formal structure. 16:18
rsc herlo: why should I explain the same and the same story to each person again and again? 16:18
rsc herlo: Mentors are not the information point as in a shopping mall. 16:18
che EvilBob, yup 16:18
che for general information id advise to use a wiki or another central point to document things. 16:19
kital che EvilBob this is true for groups like docs, artwork, packaging, infra 16:19
Douglas_  ! 16:20
herlo Douglas_: go ahead sir 16:20
EvilBob kital: So if it is not happening in other groups does it not make sense that those groups are broken? 16:20
kital no 16:21
bochecha in fact, I find it kind of weird that mentors are outside of groups / SIGs / projects... there's (almost ?) a group / SIG / projct for each and every task you could want to do in Fedora. And who can give you better information on what to do in this group than a member of the group himself ? 16:21
Douglas_ I've been in the project since May last year and I still have a hard time finding something in the wiki, I wish I have a mentor or a better search engine 16:21
kital i can speak only for Ambassadors 16:21
che bochecha, people showing other people how thing are done are maybe already involved in alot other groups ;) 16:21
che bochecha, or projects 16:22
EvilBob Douglas_: have you spoke up publicly about not being able to find something? 16:22
herlo bochecha: I agree with your point about how mentors should be part of a SIG, in fact, that's going to be my target 16:22
bochecha che, yes, but then each SIG should designate its mentor(s), it should not be a side project IMHO 16:23
Douglas_ EvilBob: not until now 16:23
che bochecha, it is not always a formal project to share knowledge 16:23
herlo bochecha: but with that, I disagree, is it not possible to be part of two groups/SIGs? 16:23
bochecha herlo, did I say the contrary ? 16:23
EvilBob Douglas_: Hmm, I see the issue, I think you do now also 16:23
EvilBob Douglas_: feel free to grab me after the meeting and I will show you a tour 16:24
herlo bochecha: in your last comment, you stated it should not be a side project, maybe I misunderstood... 16:24
EvilBob kital: you can only speak for ambassadors... is ambassadors still that busted they can't bring in and nurture new members? 16:24
herlo oh, hehe, misread 16:24
herlo sorry bochecha 16:24
herlo Okay, so it sounds like there's some disagreement on how the process should flow, no? 16:25
Douglas_ EvilBob: Thanks, but I'm not completely lost at this point, I'm just saying that if you're new this could be a bit confusing and you could use some help from a mentor 16:25
EvilBob herlo: IMO if a SIG or Project wants or needs mentors they have them 16:26
herlo I'd like to bring us all to this point. Mentoring is (and should be) a critical point in helping get contributors more integrated into their chosen group... 16:26
Douglas_ +1 16:26
bochecha but then, IMHO, what we need is first have each SIG / group designate its mentors, and the coordinate the efforts of those mentors 16:27
kital EvilBob: we try it http://jsimon.fedorapeople.org/fad08.pdf - but it is not so easy because quality measures are more spreaded then in other groups 16:27
bochecha otherwise, we're speaking about mentoring between « mentors », but people who are actually mentoring new members are not here 16:28
EvilBob bochecha: And what if a sig or group is not broken and does not need mentors? 16:28
bochecha EvilBob, what do you need broken ? 16:28
herlo the problem I see here, is we all have different ideas of what mentoring means so I'd like to set some purposes together today and try them out. 16:29
kital then they did not need it 16:29
bochecha if it doesn't need mentors, it might be because no one is joining it 16:29
che herlo, yup. that was a good point. 16:29
herlo EvilBob: don't imply the group is broken because it needs mentoring 16:29
che herlo, for me mentoring means primarily knowledge transfer 16:29
kital +1 16:29
EvilBob bochecha: Or because the existing group works as a team to inspire and help the new members 16:29
herlo or that folks in the group don't know how to bring along new contributors... 16:29
armelk +1 16:29
rsc che: +1 16:29
herlo che: +1 16:29
Douglas_ che: +1 16:30
bochecha EvilBob, then the whole group is acting as mentors, still, the group needs some ;) 16:31
herlo So in my opinion, we should be focusing on how mentoring can help each group get new members better integrated. The question is, whether it should come from within or without the group. I also think that it's possible to start with one mentor and be handed to another with a good set of rules, training and practice 16:31
bochecha s/some/them 16:31
bochecha herlo, how can you do it without the group ? 16:31
herlo bochecha: in the sense that a contributor doesn't know which group they'd like to join 16:31
herlo we'll need someone there to help them find where they'd like to be 16:32
kital that is imho also a job of a Ambassador? 16:32
herlo I can think of specific instances running into new contributors on my own 16:32
herlo kital: could be, that's what I am driving us toward. 16:32
herlo who are those mentors. 16:33
herlo how do we get them involved. 16:33
herlo do they need to be a part of another group? 16:33
herlo or are ambassadors fully equipped to handle the load? 16:33
EvilBob IMO for mentoring to be the most effective it should start from the top down, get the project heads first, they know best how to handle their projects 16:33
rsc Mentors should help, where existing ressources are not helping. Of course they should know how other groups work. 16:33
bochecha EvilBob, +1 16:33
herlo +1 EvilBob 16:33
herlo +1 rsc 16:33
EvilBob herlo: are you saying that someone has to be an ambassador to be a mentor? 16:34
herlo no 16:34
EvilBob I sure as hell hope not 16:34
herlo I'm asking whether it should be handled there? 16:34
EvilBob NO 16:34
bochecha ro me, ambassador is just another SIG 16:35
bochecha so there should be mentors for ambassadors, just as there should be mentors for bug triaging for example 16:35
* kital thinks a Ambassador should know the Fedora Project better then anyone else 16:35
bochecha (I'm not saying there aren't right now) 16:35
che kital, i somehow agree but i am desillusioned about that. 16:36
herlo +1 kital 16:36
EvilBob kital: But yo already said you have a narrow view 16:36
kital narrow view about Mentoring 16:36
herlo EvilBob: kital himself does, but I would argue that every ambassador has another interest in the fedora project somewhere besides ambassadors 16:36
che kital, the gap between should and is seems to be rather large. 16:36
rsc kital: +1 16:36
EvilBob If this gets tied to Ambassadors It will be a very bad idea 16:37
herlo which to me is the point, the range of ambassadors skillsets makes them perfect to head up the mentoring project. I'm not saying that you have to be an ambassador to participate, but they give us a large part of the project to work with... 16:37
herlo EvilBob: you say things like that without giving good arguments to the contrary. 16:38
kital most agree with me - so this means Ambassadors needs better teaching 16:38
EvilBob herlo: WHy should one group be in control of everything that they can get their dirty little fingers in to? 16:38
rsc A mentor doesn't have to know everything, but he/she should be at least able to point e.g. to an ambassador or to a bugzapper or whatelse if suitable and needed. 16:38
che rsc, +1 ;) 16:39
herlo EvilBob: they're not in control. Mentors don't have to be ambassadors, just ambassadors make good mentors 16:39
EvilBob herlo: they control the $$ 16:39
herlo rsc: +1 16:39
herlo EvilBob: they do not! 16:39
EvilBob Heh 16:39
armelk rsc: +1 16:39
che it is definitely always better to point to another source of information if unsure. 16:39
herlo EvilBob: but that's not a discussion for here 16:39
che guessing is rather unprofessional 16:39
rsc che: but happens often enough, unluckily. 16:39
che rsc, yup. i am also on the ambassador list. 16:39
herlo che: how do you mean, another source of information ?? 16:40
EvilBob If you want to have a mentoring project then have a mentoring project, if you want to recruit members from all the sb projects including ambassadors then that is the way you should go 16:40
che herlo, someone else who is more proficient with that kind of knowledge. like asking on the ambassador list rather than guessing. 16:40
EvilBob Do not just make it an extension of ambassadors. 16:41
herlo EvilBob: and that *is* the plan. Many Ambassadors are also involved in other projects, so we're asking them to be part of the mentors project in their *other* specialty because they know it well. 16:41
herlo che: ahh, indeed 16:41
herlo I suspect we'll have a lot of crossover to make this program work 16:42
EvilBob herlo: You are mucking about with getting ambassador hooks in to this that are not needed 16:42
EvilBob herlo: go to the SIGS, the Projects, ask THEM who would like to be the targeted mentor 16:43
bochecha EvilBob, +1 16:43
* kital thinks EvilBob needs mentoring in the Community 16:43
EvilBob herlo: bypassing those that will get the most benefit by going to the Ambassadors first is bad juju 16:44
herlo EvilBob: I think we get your point. 16:44
kital Conduct 16:44
herlo Thank you for your opinion. And while I don't plan to run to the ambassadors and ask them all to buddy up to the mentors group, I think they have a lot of value. 16:44
herlo as well, I think discussing with leaders of each group is a good idea, so that will happen as well. 16:45
* herlo adds some tasks in his mind. First, we need to contact the SIGS and discuss the rebirth of the Mentoring project with them 16:46
herlo Talk about our focus and goals. 16:46
herlo Define those with each group. 16:46
herlo Find out what resources Mentors can provide to them to help contributors to join. 16:47
herlo Improving upon their join processes where we can... 16:47
herlo I also think we should involve Ambassadors as (at least in NA) they've done much of the legwork to help provide the Mentoring Program with much of this information. 16:48
* herlo guesses EMEA and other Ambassador programs have been workign to gather similar information. 16:48
EvilBob herlo: Contacting the SIGS/Projects to see if they have someone in the sig that would like to be a formal part of or interface to the Mentors SIG? 16:48
* herlo mulls 16:49
herlo EvilBob: yes, for sure 16:49
EvilBob herlo: IMO that would be step to after contacting the SIG/P Leads 16:50
herlo however, that means they would have to dedicate precious resources away from their project to recruit new contributors. Not saying it's a bad thing, just want to attack it from multiple directions 16:50
EvilBob s/to/two 16:50
herlo which is why I think Ambassadors are a logical step in the process. 16:51
herlo They already know many of the groups and can help where a leader might be too busy 16:51
EvilBob herlo: so you suggest that assigning someone from outside the SIG that knows nothing about the SIG is a better idea? 16:51
herlo no 16:51
herlo EvilBob: that's not what I said at all 16:51
herlo Docs is a great example 16:51
herlo David Nalley is a Fedora Ambassadors, but participates heavily in the Docs project too 16:52
herlo he's a perfect candidate for the Mentoring since he knows how to deal with people and he knows the processes inside docs.. 16:52
EvilBob at this point I think it would be better if you just assigned an ambassador to state my needs and opinions 16:52
EvilBob Thanks 16:52
* EvilBob shakes his head and walks away 16:52
herlo EvilBob: you can continue to attack if you like, but I don't see how it's helping 16:53
bochecha herlo, but what makes him a perfect mentor is more the fact that he is in the SIG than the fact that he is an ambassador 16:53
Douglas_ and still we need some figure(s) to attend new contributors and forward them David -in this example- 16:53
bochecha I don't even see why you mention he is an ambassador 16:53
EvilBob herlo: Forget that the ambassadors exist, how would you do this WITH OUT them? 16:53
kital that is not true 16:53
kital bochecha i have recruited a lot new contributors for SIG i am not involved 16:54
bochecha kital, but in this case, all you can do is pass them to someone in the SIG right ? 16:54
EvilBob kital: But you are the exception to every rule 16:54
herlo bochecha: having both ambassador and docs qualities makes him perfect, being only in docs may mean he's not interested in helping others get integrated, just wants to provide good documentation 16:54
bochecha to me, you are not a mentor in those cases (which doesn't mean you didn't play an important role ;) 16:55
kital right - because i know who this is! 16:55
bochecha herlo, how can you be in a SIG and not want it to welcome more people ? o_O 16:55
herlo my argument is that a mentor is not someone who 'passes off' the contributor 16:55
bochecha herlo, and I totally agree with that 16:55
herlo a mentor follows up, a mentor keeps in contact, is a friend, knows the problems of the contributor, helps them grow, etc. 16:56
bochecha (and I think EvilBob does too) 16:56
EvilBob bochecha: Some in SIGs are to busy 16:56
* herlo doesn't argue that EvilBob's heart is in the right place 16:56
herlo it just feels like he's attacking Ambassadors unnecessarily because he doesn't agree with their purposes 16:56
herlo but I digress and want to focus on mentoring 16:57
herlo but I can see there's a lot of passion here too 16:57
herlo and I love that 16:57
herlo I want to harness it into a direction 16:57
EvilBob bochecha: I just don't want some pin head showing up "HI <SIG>, I'm a Fedora Ambassador and I'm your mentor" 16:57
herlo I want mentors to succeed because I can see that all of you care 16:57
bochecha EvilBob, yeah, that would be ridiculous ^^ 16:58
herlo EvilBob: that won't happen... 16:58
Douglas_ That won't happen 16:58
EvilBob herlo:then why bring ambassadors in to it at this point? 16:58
kital +1 EvilBob 16:58
bochecha same question as EvilBob 16:58
EvilBob herlo: Hey I want to be involved in this, I want to help make things work 16:59
kital EvilBob: because Ambassadors should know potential Mentors 16:59
herlo EvilBob: again, ambassadors are more than one focus. Many many many ambassadors are participants in other groups. They're people people. They can be those friends. 16:59
EvilBob herlo: I am already being pushed out the door by ambassadors 16:59
herlo they can help people along... 16:59
bochecha herlo, if they are in those groups yes, if not, they are just passing people to the appropriate mentor 16:59
herlo EvilBob: we can discuss that another time, I want to move forward with helping new contributors. Ambassadors are a big part of it... 17:00
kital just? bochecha 17:00
EvilBob kital: If ambassadors project wants to interface with the mentors project to help drive contributors they can do that with out being a part of the mentoring group 17:00
EvilBob herlo: discuss what? 17:00
herlo bochecha: no, that's where their ambassadorship is important. If they are to be mentors, they must follow our procedures, and get people integrated. 17:00
EvilBob herlo: I have NOTHING to hide 17:00
herlo EvilBob: you being pushed out the door, it is not relevant to this discussion 17:00
kital but Ambassadors need Mentoring as well - right? 17:01
herlo sure, but that's not the point either kital 17:01
bochecha kital, exactly 17:01
bochecha herlo, it is 17:01
EvilBob herlo: Me being pushed out of this meeting is not relevant? 17:01
herlo EvilBob: that's not what you said 17:01
EvilBob herlo: THAT IS what I said 17:01
herlo EvilBob: and I'm not pushing you out. Just asking you not to attack 17:01
* bochecha didn't see where EvilBob was being pushed out of the meeting 17:01
* kital thinks this is not very constructive 17:02
herlo the core problem I'm seeing is we don't agree on *how* ot mentor 17:02
bochecha if ambassadors need mentoring, then they are not more suited to be mentors than any other SIG 17:02
herlo bochecha: new ambassadors are new contributors, sure they need mentoring 17:02
bochecha herlo, I didn't say the contrary 17:02
biertie herlo +1 17:02
bochecha what I mean, is that they need mentoring just as any other new contributor 17:02
bochecha so, they are not more suited than any other group to be mentors 17:03
herlo bochecha: I know, what I want to argue is that experienced ambassadors are people persons. 17:03
herlo bochecha: IMO yes, they are better suited 17:03
herlo but it doesn't preclude any other group from having mentors 17:03
herlo and it doesn't mean that mentors have to be ambassadors either 17:04
EvilBob as I said 17:04
EvilBob herlo: Forget that the ambassadors exist, how would you do this WITH OUT them? 17:04
herlo it's just a good place to start since we can pull from them 17:04
herlo EvilBob: but they do exist, so why should I do that? 17:04
bochecha EvilBob, exactly, just as we would do without any other group 17:04
bochecha herlo, because they need mentoring too, because they are just another SIG too 17:04
EvilBob herlo: you are focusing on them 17:04
bochecha (s/they/we as I am an ambassador) 17:05
herlo EvilBob: because they can help the best IMO 17:05
EvilBob herlo: you think they will save the Mentors concept 17:05
herlo no, I think *we* will save the Mentors concept with their help. 17:05
kital can we please focus how we can new contributors become involved faster with better quality in the right group to get things done? 17:05
EvilBob if mentoring is going to rise or fall it should do so on it's own 17:05
herlo but only if we can get past this bickering 17:05
herlo kital: +1 17:05
EvilBob if you want it to be a sub project of the Ambassadors then that should have been stated from the start 17:05
bochecha kital, isn't that what we are doing ? o_O 17:06
herlo EvilBob: that's not the case, stop iT! 17:06
* herlo moves to kital's suggestion 17:06
EvilBob herlo: if it is not the case please stop bringing th ambassadors in to 17:06
EvilBob it 17:06
herlo what methods can we take to improve the contributor experience 17:06
herlo Working with leadership in each SIG / Sub-project to identify 17:07
herlo direct contacts for new contributors 17:07
herlo that's point 1 on my agenda 17:07
bochecha and then make it easy for the new contributor to encounter this direct contact 17:07
kital so in packaging we have the sponsor who makes the reviews right - in Ambassadors we have regional Mentors but no real Quality measures 17:07
herlo what other things can you guys think of that will help the contributor direction... 17:07
herlo yeah, statistics are going to be important. One place where mentors need to keep tracking those contributors they're mentoring 17:08
kital i think the first change should be to point someone to a real responsible person - so he can interact with 17:08
bochecha EvilBob, and this page is mentioned when you open your FAS account 17:08
bochecha as you become a contributor when you open a FAS account... 17:08
herlo which means we need statistics from each SIG/group 17:08
herlo kital: how should we go about that... 17:09
kital we do that in Ambassadors 17:09
bochecha EvilBob, you mean, help for filling a form ? 17:09
EvilBob So we need frontline/general Mentors and Mentors in the SIG/P also 17:10
EvilBob IMO anyhow 17:11
herlo Who do you suggest those frontline Mentors be EvilBob 17:11
bochecha herlo, anyone who is willing to be and has experience to drive new contributors to the appropriate person ? 17:11
EvilBob Just as Douglas_ mentioned earlier would have been nice to have more help 17:11
herlo bochecha: where do we get them from? 17:12
EvilBob herlo: pull them from the general populous 17:12
herlo EvilBob: how? 17:12
bochecha herlo, we shouldn't _get_ them 17:12
EvilBob herlo: put a call out on some of the lists 17:12
EvilBob herlo: ask and they will come 17:12
bochecha and those who want will do 17:12
EvilBob herlo: ask EVERYONE not just a single group 17:13
bochecha a mentor in a SIG/P can also be a frontline mentor if he wants to / has the time to 17:13
EvilBob bochecha: Exactly 17:13
herlo So I think there's a couple plans of attack there, one is to mass mail the list 17:13
bochecha herlo, where I agree with EvilBob, is that you seem to imply that only ambassadors can be those frontline mentors 17:13
herlo another is to contact each SIG and repurpose a leader into a mentor? 17:13
EvilBob Who here is wiling to send out an email to a list or two they are on, seeking these frontline mentors? I know I am. 17:14
herlo bochecha: I will continue to agree with my statement that Ambassadors be the frontlines, but clearly you don't agree 17:14
herlo EvilBob: and what if the Ambassadors come en masse to help with your reply? 17:15
EvilBob This would have to be coordinated so we don't double up 17:15
herlo s/reply/request/ 17:15
EvilBob herlo: then they come as community members 17:15
herlo okay 17:15
EvilBob There are contributors in other groups that have resources, spare time, what have you 17:16
herlo no argument 17:16
EvilBob Just as Ambassadors do that want to help 17:16
EvilBob but perhaps as with me, Ambassadors is not a place I fit 17:16
herlo I'm sure there are others. 17:17
herlo if there weren't this community would never have succeeded as well as it has 17:17
herlo Here's the next thing I want to discuss. 17:17
herlo 3 - Each group has a slightly different join process, and we're here 17:18
herlo to lower that barrier, not do the work for them. What can we do to 17:18
herlo make it easier to become a contributor. 17:18
EvilBob target the community as a whole and this can succeed 17:18
herlo EvilBob: I've never said differently 17:18
herlo so we agree on that :) 17:18
herlo thoughts about lowring barriers? 17:19
herlo hello? 17:20
bochecha just to be sure, who is the « we » in your sentance ? is that « mentors » ? if that's the case, why are you implying they are outside of the groups ? 17:20
herlo bochecha: it's from my agenda, much has changed since then 17:21
herlo but I'd say this mentors group 17:21
herlo as a whole 17:21
bochecha well, I think each group has to lower its barrier of entry, I can't see how someone from outside can do it :-/ 17:22
bochecha and as it seems we are discussing as a mentor group, I can't see how we can lower the barriers for other groups 17:22
herlo well, I thought we said that each SIG would have to provide someone inside to help contributors to understand the processes. 17:22
kital +1 17:23
bochecha and those persons would be the ones that will lower the barriers 17:23
inode0  ! 17:23
herlo what about those new contributors who aren't sure of their direction 17:23
herlo inode0: go ahead 17:24
inode0 some groups I've spoken with indicate they create high barriers intentionally, they don't have time or resources to mentor beginners 17:24
inode0 they need to have proof you are a serious about contributing first 17:24
inode0 which makes leaving this to those groups problematic 17:25
herlo inode0: good point 17:25
Douglas_ sounds reasonable 17:25
herlo sometimes its a language barrier, or just lack of knowledge that prevents someone from participating in something they want to learn 17:26
bochecha and how could someone outside those groups help a new contributor to join them ? 17:26
EvilBob Who wants infrastructure handing the keys to the castle to some guy that walks in off the street? 17:26
kital inode0 this people mostly start in Ambassadors Group because the barrier is very low and this is the reason why here mentoring is much needed 17:26
bochecha EvilBob, exactly 17:26
herlo EvilBob: helping them understand that might be what a mentor in infra does 17:26
EvilBob bochecha: "I" do, would make life interesting 17:26
EvilBob  ;^) 17:27
inode0 infra is a good example 17:27
inode0 they do mentor new members, but make you ask for one more than once to get one :) 17:27
herlo but it sounds to me like infra doesn't have the resources to provide a mentor, then what? 17:27
EvilBob inode0: it is also why infra is viewed by some as a "Good'ol boy's club" 17:27
herlo EvilBob: but I'd say that Ricky proved that it's not a 'Good ol' boys club' 17:28
inode0 art I think is one group that lacks resources to really mentor new members who don't have sharp skills 17:28
* herlo agrees with inode0 17:28
bochecha and how would a frontline mentors help in lowering the barrier to enter art team ? 17:29
kital knowing about the processes 17:30
herlo well, my thought is that frontline mentors would do as the ambassadors did. Invite the art leader (or someone experienced) to come and talk about how to get involved, what the process is and help identify ways to lower the barrier 17:31
herlo maybe for an hour, or for several meetings. I think leadership can spare one or two hours a month, but more than that gets a bit difficult 17:31
bochecha but then, I don't really see the added value of the frontline mentor in the case you describe 17:32
* kital has to go now sorry 17:32
Douglas_ Gotta go amigos, I'll catch up later in the meeting log 17:32
* herlo will call the meeting in about 10-15 minutes for those who are sticking around 17:32
herlo bochecha: the argument is that now the frontline mentor has *some* knowledge and can help get the new contributor started. It's possible they will need to hand them off to more capable hands, but that the art mentor may not have caught this person until they joined the art team 17:33
bochecha ok, so you were speaking about some « one shot » meeting to actually « instruct the frontline mentor » 17:34
herlo yes 17:34
bochecha ok, I hadn't understood it this way 17:35
kirkz herlo: just came on and noticed your meeting - want me as a rookie to attend - I can give you my experience so far 17:35
herlo kirkz: that'd be great! 17:36
kirkz OK 17:36
bochecha gotta go too unfortunately :-/ 17:36
bochecha bye 17:37
herlo np, sounds like we're winding down anyway 17:37
herlo let's plan for another meeting in 2 weeks. Is Sunday good for everyone? 17:38
biertie will she be so "violent" again? :) 17:38
biertie I'll try to be more active then ;) 17:38
herlo hehe, k 17:38
* herlo notes that is March 1 17:39
herlo I'll post the minutes that I have and a summary up later today to the mentors list 17:39
herlo any other thoughts before we close? 17:39
biertie no :) 17:40
herlo 10 17:40
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herlo 5 17:40
herlo 4 17:40
herlo 3 17:40
herlo 2 17:40
herlo 1 17:40
herlo EOF 17:40
herlo bye all! Thank you 17:40

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