From Fedora Project Wiki
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init | <a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a> | |
| wwoods | qa meeting time! | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> |
|---|---|---|
| * jds2001 | <a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a> | |
| f13 | blaaaat | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| wwoods | f13, mether, viking-ice_, comphappy, notting, DemonJester: ping | <a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a> |
| * viking-ice_ pong on laptop | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> | |
| * viking-ice pong.. on workstation | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> | |
| wwoods | a random note. sometime after F9 is out I'm gonna actually go through with my mumblings about having a proper QA board and FAS group | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| wwoods | I mention it because.. it'll make the roll call easier | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| wwoods | heh | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| * viking-ice second that.. | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> | |
| jds2001 | lol | <a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a> |
| wwoods | jds2001, poelcat: ping | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| wwoods | see? I forget people. | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| wwoods | my apologies for that. | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| * poelcat here | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> | |
| poelcat | jlaska: ping | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> |
| * jds2001 is easily forgettable :) | <a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a> | |
| wwoods | I think he has a scheduling conflict with this meeting | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
| wwoods | but sometimes lurks | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
| wwoods | I need to bug him about doing some pseries testing | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
| wwoods | anyway: | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
| rdieter | jds2001: all the best ninjas are. :) | <a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a> |
| * jlaska lurks | <a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a> | |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F9 RC1 and test status: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease</a> | <a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a> | |
| jlaska | fighting some 5.2 issues right now ... but present | <a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a> |
| wwoods | so! unless I've confused myself, today's rawhide is the offically official RC1 (f13, confirm?) | <a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a> |
| * jds2001 just finished rsync'ing it. | <a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a> | |
| f13 | wwoods: sadly there are 2 packages that are going to be bumped, due to file corruption on the koji store | <a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a> |
| poelcat | jds2001: tell me if it installs... i've got a mismatch somewhere | <a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a> |
| wwoods | f13: ooh. ouch. | <a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a> |
| f13 | however those are fringe packages, and it's only one ppc rpm and one ppc-debuginfo rpm | <a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a> |
| wwoods | ah yes. yeah, low-impact. so we're just dropping 'em from the repos, or rebuilding? | <a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a> |
| f13 | rebuilding | <a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a> |
| f13 | unfortunately one is a 3 hour rebuild. | <a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a> |
| wwoods | gross. | <a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a> |
| f13 | very | <a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a> |
| wwoods | well, the impact on the required testing for final is basically 0 | <a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a> |
| wwoods | but one of us with ppc machines should be sure to check it tomorrow | <a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a> |
| wwoods | the installation test results are going nicely | <a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a> |
| f13 | yeah, getting lots of results, I'm very happy | <a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a> |
| f13 | just need to verify some stuff like the hd iso and nfs iso and the other bugs that anaconda supposedly fixed like ftp password | <a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a> |
| wwoods | I want to thank everyone for their help, especially comphappy and DemonJester | <a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a> |
| f13 | I'm still putting the final touches on the tree, like the jigdo files, gpg signing, etc... | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| wwoods | right, I was going to ask - we needed to invalidate the hdiso/nfsiso results because of the new anaconda build | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| f13 | I've been able to concentrate more on that then on the tree testing, which is a good thing. | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| wwoods | I take that to mean you haven't retested? | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| DemonJester | you are welcome! glad to help where I can ;) | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: not with today's compose | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| * jds2001 can test nfsiso soon. | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> | |
| wwoods | DemonJester: it is very much appreciated! | <a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a> |
| f13 | we're also pretty well pre-synced to PHX for the Fedora/Everything stuff | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| wwoods | like f13 says, it frees us up to do further testing and release prep stuff | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| f13 | Live images will go later, and those I need to do a bunch of testing on. Hopefully today is live testing day | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| f13 | jeremy: ping? | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| wwoods | with your help I can honestly say this has been one of the least stressful final release cycles I've ever been involved with | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| wwoods | (not to say it's been all milk and honey, but still, much easier than any previous one) | <a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, live testing would be excellent. I don't think we have a specific test plan for that | <a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a> |
| -!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Live testing | <a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a> | |
| wwoods | since we don't have a specific test plan we fall back to the ReleaseCriteria: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria</a> | <a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: so a rawhide compose is being re-purposed as an RC | <a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a> |
| jlaska | ? | <a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: re-purposed? | <a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a> |
| wwoods | there's no difference in content between today's rawhide | <a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a> |
| wwoods | and anything we'd build as an RC right now | <a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a> |
| wwoods | therefore: today's rawhide can be considered RC1 | <a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a> |
| jlaska | in terms of included packaging as appropriately tagged in koji ... you are correct | <a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a> |
| f13 | yeah, the only package changes I'm expecting live outside the Fedora spin. | <a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a> |
| jlaska | this may be my unfamiliarity with the process ... but my naive thought would be a rawhide compose wouldn't produce the same signed results as a official RC comopse | <a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a> |
| jlaska | f13: is that not the case for Fedora? | <a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: why would it? | <a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: not the case. rawhide has signed packages in it | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| f13 | the only difference is a re-run of the compose tools | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| jlaska | so the RC .treeinfo will say "version = development" ? | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| wwoods | ah, signatures. yeah, in this case we have had signed packages in rawhide for a couple weeks now | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| f13 | which is getting some validation. | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| * f13 thinks we're all talking past eachother | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> | |
| f13 | my life for a whiteboard. | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| wwoods | yes rawhide .treeinfo still says "development" but that's irrelevant to testing | <a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: we take the rawhide tree, we point pungi at it, and let pungi create the Fedora tree from the bits in rawhide | <a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a> |
| * viking-ice bling an idea online whiteboard.. | <a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a> | |
| jlaska | wwoods: yes and no | <a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: the packages are the same. Some of the data bits, like the .treeinfo and the repodata and whatnot will be slightly different | <a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a> |
| jlaska | exactly | <a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a> |
| jlaska | there is definitely some overlap in terms of testing rawhide packages | <a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a> |
| wwoods | I think "some" understates it | <a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: since (mostly) the same tool is used to create rawhide and the RC spin, mostly we're looking at the rc bits to make sure the compose process didn't fall over | <a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: otherwise rawhide works perfectly fine to test installability, functionality, etc... | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| wwoods | For purposes of Fedora QA, the set of things that are RC-specific is tiny. Furthermore that stuff can't get tested outside the RH firewall | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: and others use pungi locally to produce local iso sets to test things like iso installs | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| jlaska | f13: so the stage2.img and ramdisk's between rawhide and the final RC will be the same? | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: no, they are recreated | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| jlaska | or will those change during the pungi-ficcation process? | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: rather have been recreated. | <a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a> |
| wwoods | but we're not going to redo the entire test process because we've changed a handful of metadata | <a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: I haven't suggested that | <a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: I'm just trying to understand the current process ... and reconcile the differences with a more formal QA process | <a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a> |
| jlaska | we can make recommendations from there ... I certainly don't want to suggest anything disruptive at this point :) | <a href="#t11:22" class="time">11:22</a> |
| wwoods | gotcha | <a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a> |
| wwoods | well, we can discuss the differences between our process and a more formal QA process at a later time | <a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a> |
| wwoods | I'd be happy to give you a detailed walkthrough of the current Fedora process | <a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: basically we put trust in the tools to produce consistant output | <a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: and test that trust by reproducing the output in many places and testing said output | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| jlaska | f13: so what has worked really well in "other areas" is when the RC is basically read-only from that point out ... meaning, all things being equal, it's what would get rsync'd and written to media for customers | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| jlaska | f13: hehe ... I'm in QA, I don't have that trust ;) | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| wwoods | but! at the moment we're hip-deep in the process already and less than a week from GA | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| viking-ice | has anyone done some testing on more "complex" partition layout in anaconda than the default.. I have been faced with weird behavior of the "ask for encrypted password" box in anaconda with multiple encrypted ( ext3, ext4 ) and none encrypted partition layout. | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| wwoods | we need to focus on getting through the process first | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| f13 | so that we can have confidence in what we produce as "RC" on a compose machine is supposed to be the same thing that was produced for rawhide which is mirrored and public. | <a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a> |
| jds2001 | viking-ice: i have kickstarts in snake for some of that stuff. | <a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a> |
| jlaska | jds2001: ooh ... any chance you could share ... maybe we can package some of these with snake? | <a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: basically it's working around the fact that getting the bits from the compose machine to the world is expensive in time, money, and effort. | <a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: should we schedule a meeting sometime so we can give an overview of the evolved Fedora QA process to RHEL QE folks? | <a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: something that RHEL doesn't necessarily have to worry about. | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| * poelcat thinks this would be a good fudcon session as this disagreement seems to comes up from time and seems rooted in each person's definition of "how formal of a QA process" fedora requires | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> | |
| wwoods | f13: not to mention the difference in what our "customers" expect | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| jds2001 | jlaska: not a problem :) | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| f13 | that and the fact that we don't have an automated testing lab to throw the compose output at. | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| poelcat | f13: we do, it hasn't been used | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| f13 | poelcat: or it's unusable. | <a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a> |
| f13 | and not open source thus can't be a part of the official Fedora infrastructure | <a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a> |
| wwoods | this conversation's been had a few times and now isn't really the time | <a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a> |
| poelcat | it could still provide value, but we don't have to argue about that here and now | <a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: I agree | <a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a> |
| wwoods | f13: when do we need to start synching the presumed-final bits? | <a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: you mean the bits that are already synced? | <a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a> |
| wwoods | er, okay. when's the last minute we can hit the Big Red Button Of Doom? | <a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: the minute before I chmod the 9 directory to allow mirrors access to it | <a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a> |
| f13 | which I'd like to do today or tomorrow. | <a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a> |
| wwoods | okay. so at the outside we have ~36 hours to make sure there are no showstoppers remaining | <a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a> |
| wwoods | and that's if we really want to test f13's patience | <a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a> |
| wwoods | any larger discussions of general QA strategy and philosophy will have to wait until after then | <a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a> |
| f13 | yeah, the longer we delay the fewer mirrors we'll have ready to go come GA. | <a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a> |
| jlaska | f13: you raise a good point about the "getting the bits out" difference between fedora composition and RHEL ... I'll churn the brain a bit and perhaps we all can discuss further @ FUDCON | <a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a> |
| f13 | also, anything found after this afternoon will likely mean a slip in the release date. | <a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a> |
| wwoods | if you really think the tree ought to be QA'd by running it through some automated system, be my guest, let me know how it goes | <a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a> |
| wwoods | but we do not have the time to discuss or develop such an architecture right now. | <a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a> |
| wwoods | getting back to testing Live | <a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a> |
| wwoods | jeremy's in class at the moment, I believe, but we should be getting Live images sometime later today | <a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a> |
| f13 | I've got 3 machines for which I can use to test live, an i386 mac mini, an x86_64 imac, and an x86_64 amd system | <a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a> |
| jlaska | f13: wwoods: sorry for the tangeant, my QA spidey sense was tingling from past "gotchas" (not in a good way) ... we'll revisit post RC | <a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a> |
| f13 | only one can be used with usb live images | <a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a> |
| f13 | (the amd) | <a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: sure thing, more than happy to have the conversation | <a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: It's definitely worth discussing. Later. | <a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a> |
| wwoods | AFAIK this is the same process we used for Alpha and Beta and the PR so we're fairly sure it's OK | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: so I'll hit actual media for those two arches plus usb, and do installs from both | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| f13 | and I can do testing in kvm of the same | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| wwoods | right, I've got an x86 mini and two x86_64 dells. oh, and that G5 power mac | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| wwoods | are we getting ppc live images this time around? | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| wwoods | jwb: ping? are you the ppc keymaster? | <a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a> |
| jwb | i am, we aren't | <a href="#t11:35" class="time">11:35</a> |
| jwb | at least not in time for release | <a href="#t11:35" class="time">11:35</a> |
| f13 | I'll hook up with jeremy and get the Live/ dir populated on reducto with the release candidate live images | <a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: are there certain areas of the installation matrix you're looking for community test feedback on? | <a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: or is there a "yet to be created" matrix whose results you need? | <a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a> |
| jwb | wwoods, have you heard of many requests for PPC live cd/dvds? | <a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a> |
| wwoods | jwb: not really, although I enjoy having them | <a href="#t11:37" class="time">11:37</a> |
| jwb | wwoods, i've not done any for a couple reasons. 1, there are some interesting "which kernel" issues, and 2, no demand | <a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a> |
| wwoods | there's currently no matrix specifically for live images, so we have to fall back on the ReleaseCriterie and common sense | <a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: we have no matrix for live image testing | <a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a> |
| jwb | but we can look at that again if we want | <a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a> |
| jlaska | f13: we stubbed out a one-the-fly matrix for swfdec and PackageKit a few weeks back and got some great community feedback | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| wwoods | jwb: yeah, no, it's tricky to get right and people aren't really clamoring for it | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| * wwoods brb sigwife | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> | |
| viking-ice | /me for the record common sense ain't that common... :) | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| viking-ice | fumble.. | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| wwoods | heh | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| jlaska | we can certainly rinse-and-repeat for some "basic" community assistance on the Live CD part | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: yeah, that was successful, but the bits were also publically available. | <a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a> |
| wwoods | yeah, that's why we like to have a well-defined test plan with well-defined test cases | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| f13 | live cd ones aren't, and slightly more difficult to produce on ones own. | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| jlaska | f13: ah ... so we've have to post the ISO images somewhere first for this? | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| jds2001 | well, anyone can *make* these bits. | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: to get external testing, yes. | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| wwoods | but yeah, check the simple stuff: burn the image, boot the image, make sure all the boot menu items work as expected | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| f13 | jds2001: yes, but it's more trixy since you can't use mock. | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| wwoods | when it boots, make sure everything comes up right. make sure all the apps in the menus start up. | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| jds2001 | right.... | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| jlaska | f13: is that a possibility? | <a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a> |
| jlaska | f13: e.g. posting those iso images? | <a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: posting yes, posting and having any reasonable amount of time to see them get downloaded, testing, and reported upon not really | <a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: as stated before, any needed changes would have to be noticed by COB today or else we'd slip the release. | <a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a> |
| f13 | and I'm not one to pre-slip the release just to give time to potentially find problems | <a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a> |
| jlaska | f13: ah okay ... so the best we could hope for community feedback would be proposing some LiveCD sanity tests? | <a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a> |
| f13 | probably, if you ignore the fact that there is an office here and in RDU full of Fedora community members | <a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a> |
| f13 | they just also happen to be RH employees | <a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a> |
| jlaska | indeed | <a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a> |
| wwoods | posting the isos is a waste of time and bandwidth | <a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a> |
| f13 | we usually burn a stack of CDs and USB keys then go wander about the office asking people to boot stuff. | <a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a> |
| jds2001 | sounds like a plan :) | <a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a> |
| wwoods | at least with our current schedule | <a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a> |
| wwoods | err - posting the *install* isos | <a href="#t11:44" class="time">11:44</a> |
| jlaska | f13: wwoods: indeed, given the current time restrictions, the return on investment of publicly mirroring the Live CD iso's may be too low | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| wwoods | sorry | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| jds2001 | that's not an issue, they are triviaal to produce. | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| jds2001 | the install iso's, that is. | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| wwoods | hopefully we can make it easier to bake your own semi-official live images at home | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| wwoods | for F10 | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| f13 | jds2001: right, until you consider the reluctance of QA to make assumptions that what you produce and what jeremy produced are 'the same' enough for testing (: | <a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a> |
| wwoods | I'm comfortable with that assumption | <a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a> |
| * jds2001 was just going to say that. | <a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a> | |
| wwoods | because our "customers" seem comfortable with it and they accept the results of that testing | <a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a> |
| jds2001 | and it is the only practical way to get community testing. | <a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a> |
| wwoods | There is a fundamental difference in expectations between RHEL consumers and Fedora consumers | <a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a> |
| jds2001 | +1000 | <a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a> |
| * jds2001 being both :) | <a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a> | |
| wwoods | exactly - and you don't apply the same standards to both because you don't have the same expectations of both | <a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a> |
| wwoods | anyway, again, tangent | <a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a> |
| viking-ice | true | <a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a> |
| f13 | heee | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| jlaska | f13: my reluctance comes from experience ... but I'm definitely open to new ways of doing things ;) | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| wwoods | it makes sense to spend a month testing frozen bits, if those bits need to be supported for 7 years | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: I have reluctance too, which is why I trust, but verify | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| jlaska | f13: well spoken | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| f13 | I just verify a smaller set of things than we have on our public matrix | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| jlaska | f13: I think what I'm struggling with is giving the community a chance to join in the "verify" part | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| jlaska | but that's the future discussion | <a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a> |
| wwoods | indeed | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| f13 | what will change that dynamic a lot is when we move to doing the composes in PHX on "public" hardware/directories | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| jds2001 | this sounds like an excellent fudcon discussion :) | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| wwoods | anyway, so the take-away here is.. we're *not* going to be able to make the LiveCD images public? | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| jlaska | f13: oh yeah ... that's a good point | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: yeah I think so | <a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a> |
| DemonJester | couldnt you simply provide "official" build kickstarts for the community to build the live cd's themselves? | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| f13 | wwoods: yes, that is my estimation. | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| jlaska | jds2001: +++ :)) | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| wwoods | DemonJester: yes, like we do with the pungi stuff | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| f13 | DemonJester: we do that already, but the problem is that tools sometimes fail, and compose environments can differ. | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| wwoods | except the livecd tools aren't quite as robust or mature | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| wwoods | so, yeah, the results are not as reliable | <a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: so perhaps as f13 suggested ... we put a call out for folks inside the office ... and provide a matrix? DOes this seem reasonable ... or is that too much ofa sledgehammer approach for the feedback you're looking for? | <a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a> |
| wwoods | that's definitely a goal, though | <a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a> |
| DemonJester | gotcha | <a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: no, that's pretty much what I had in mind, but I'm not sure about throwing together a matrix in a few minutes | <a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a> |
| wwoods | still, better than nothin' | <a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: definitly ... and we can have non-rht community help in generating the matrix | <a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a> |
| f13 | jlaska: that would work, but yeah, we have maybe an hour or two to put up a matrix | <a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a> |
| jlaska | I think we can pull something together in 30mins | <a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a> |
| f13 | (counting the 30 minutes for me to bolt down some food) | <a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a> |
| jlaska | if folks want ... we can toss ideas out here now | <a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a> |
| wwoods | right | <a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a> |
| wwoods | so we're brainstorming a list of Live test cases? | <a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a> |
| jlaska | yeah .. .what the heck ... I'll jot 'em down and post them | <a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a> |
| wwoods | okay. obvious stuff: | <a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a> |
| jds2001 | it boots, autologin works, screensaver not activated, persistence works if applicable, installation works. | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| wwoods | * application startup for everything in the menu | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| jlaska | installation ... using defaults? | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| wwoods | you can't configure liveCD installation | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| jds2001 | jlaska: i think that's all you can do | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| wwoods | it just writes itself to the hard drive | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| jlaska | jds2001: cool, makes sense | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> |
| * DemonJester agrees | <a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a> | |
| jlaska | wwoods: you mean going through the gnome menus and starting all apps? | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: yep | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | there are't that many | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| jlaska | gotcha ... that's bold ;) | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | it's a ReleaseRequirement | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| * jlaska knows there is some dogtail online for that somewhere | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> | |
| jds2001 | shouldnt take too long | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | err ReleaseCriteria | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | gotta do it for KDE too, though | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: good point ... so what are all the images we'll need ot test? | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| wwoods | do we do PK stuff differently for RO/RW? | <a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a> |
| f13 | if we're headed into matrix discussion, I'm going to step away for a few minutes. | <a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a> |
| jlaska | f13: take the blue pill! | <a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: x86_64/i386 * KDE/GNOME | <a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a> |
| jlaska | so 4 iso's? | <a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a> |
| viking-ice | yea that's one thing i've been wondering about are most of you just doing default installs with anaconda cause I think anaconda is in good shape for defaults but on the grey area for non default installs.. | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| jlaska | do we care about the medium used to boot them (e.g. cdrom vs usb key)? | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| jds2001 | just hand them out via person 1 gets gnome i386, person 2 gets gnome x86_64, etc. | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| wwoods | viking-ice: default what? partition layout, package selection? | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| viking-ice | wwoods yep.. | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| jds2001 | jlaska: we care if persistence matters | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| wwoods | viking-ice: check the test matrix (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease</a>) | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| wwoods | it details the different partitioning schemes etc we have tested | <a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a> |
| wwoods | note that there are *not* test cases for encryption yet! I've been testing it kind of scattershot | <a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a> |
| * jds2001 tested encryption in ks. | <a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a> | |
| jds2001 | it worked awhile back, not sure about now. | <a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: there are a few ...<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/EncryptedBlockDevices#head-3754cffc4686ac4c76bebcc9605e3f82f0b066b0">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/EncryptedBlockDevices#head-3754cffc4686ac4c76bebcc9605e3f82f0b066b0</a> | <a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: yeah, we care about RO (CD/DVD) vs. RO (USB) vs. RW (USB) | <a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a> |
| jlaska | jds2001: re: persistance ... is that included by default if you burn a liveCD ... or is special livecd-tools magic required to do that? | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| jlaska | wwoods: okay | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| jds2001 | i think special magic is required. | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| wwoods | jlaska: persistence only works on USB | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| jds2001 | of course, since that's the only RW media :) | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| wwoods | you need to pass livecd-iso-to-disk a special flag | <a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a> |
| wwoods | livecd-iso-to-disk --overlay-size-mb <size> | <a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a> |
| jlaska | jds2001: wwoods: so do we consider that a test for the livecd-tools suite ... and not for the provided liveCD iso images? | <a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a> |
| poelcat | wwoods: how much longer do you guys need for QA meeting? BugZappers were hoping to meet at 12:00 | <a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a> |
| wwoods | we can take this session to #fedora-qa | <a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a> |
| viking-ice | wwoods: we might wanna add to the package selection test matrix All packages ( along with default and minimal ) | <a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a> |
| wwoods | viking-ice: it's there already | <a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a> |
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