QA/Meetings/20090715

From FedoraProject

< QA | Meetings
Revision as of 20:23, 15 July 2009 by Jlaska (Talk | contribs)

(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to: navigation, search

Contents

Attendees

  • Adam Miller (maxamillion)
  • Adam Williamson (adamw)
  • David Pravec (dpravec)
  • Edward Kirk (tk009)
  • Kamil Paral (kparal)
  • Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
  • James Laska (jlaska)
  • Jesse Keating (f13)
  • Jóhann Guðmundsson (viking-ice)
  • John Poelstra (poelcat)
  • Will Woods (wwoods)


Agenda

Proposed meeting agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  • [jlaska] - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc
    • Updated fedora-qa trac instance ... viking_ice is now in the default bcc list.
  • [jlaska] - file a bunch of tickets to track wiki RFC's (requests for content) for debugging pages ... email list seeking volunteers after
  • [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document
    • Spent some time on that this morning, but need to keep thinking about a good way to represent and allow for collaborative growth. I'm not ready to toss it out for review yet, but see transcript for link.

In the news

Fedora 12 Test Day schedule

A group of us gathered in fedora talk this week to hash out some ideas around QA milestones on the F12 schedule. A summary of the discussion was sent to fedora-test-list by poelstra.

Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1

Poelcat sent out a reminder about the first Alpha bug review meeting

What: F12Alpha Blocker bug meeting (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=f12alpha)
When: Friday, 2009-07-17 @ 17:00 UTC (1 PM EDT)
Where: #fedora-bugzappers
  • Adamw suggested looking at all F12blocker bugs and see if any are appropriate to block f12alpha too
  • Jlaska directed folks to the discussion around how to handle older F11Target bugs.
  • Poelcat updated the team on a draft SOP used to outline Blocker Bug meetings: User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop
  • Jlaska asked ... what type of issues constitute an Alpha blocker?
    • Adamw suggested using critical severity bugs in in critical path packages as release criteria
      • Mcepl indicated this approach might be too much ... which resulted in an update to the bug severity definition around
 [...] bugs in a single specific piece of hardware are not 'critical', only 'high' [...]

Maxamillion asked where the criteria for severity are established?

Maxamillion asked where the bug severity definitions are?

Fedora 12 Test Day schedule

Schedule: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Fedora_12_test_days Test Day candidates: Releases/12/FeatureList

Current list of wishlist events includes:

  • Revisit of X drivers (e.g. nouveau)
  • Anaconda F12 features
    • Storage cleanup [1]
    • RAID [2]
    • Partition UI cleanup [3]
  • Upcoming NetworkManager changes
    • IPV6 [4]
    • System-wide connections [5]
    • Mobile broadband updates [6]
  • Audio test day
  1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/StorageFiltering
  2. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/MDRaid
  3. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/UICleanup
  4. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerIPv6
  5. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NetworkManagerSystemConnections
  6. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/MoreNetworkManagerMobileBroadband

Others already scheduled include:

  • Virtualization
  • Dracut [1]
  1. Many thanks to viking_ice for his contributions the dracut test day, included Dracut/Debugging and Dracut/Testing.

AutoQA - update from wwoods

https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa

Completed all definition of all QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan test cases.

Two new test cases required some critical path work to be done first.

Two new additional basic functionality test cases:

Plan for this week is to read up on autotest and begin automating test cases.

More info about the tasks / progress can be found here: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com

Meeting time?

Dpravec cannot make the current meeting time and has requested considering a new day or time. Tk009 and Adamw suggested creating a meeting matrix page to coodinate times similar to that used in Bugzappers_meeting_matrix. Jlaska took this action item.

Open discussion

Updated F12 Schedule

f13 reminded the group about updates to the F12 schedule. This discussion was moved into the "news" portion of the agenda (see ).

Of test spins and trademarks

Viking_ice made the group aware of a discussion on fedora-advisory-board around trademark concerns

RHEL participants in Test Days?

Kparal asked how many RHEL people participate in Test Days.

Several people responded which can be summarized by: varies hugely by topic...some test days are essentially only _for_ that kind of person, but for something like, oh, nouveau test day, probably none.

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  1. [jlaska] - Notify team list (fedora-test-list) to solicit volunteers for help with Debugging pages (see http://tinyurl.com/n6n24f)
  2. [jlaska] - Create a QA:Meeting matrix similar to Bugzappers_meeting_matrix to determine best fit for meeting slots

IRC Transcript

poelcat | we need to wrap up... I think QA meeting is next Jul 15 12:00
stickster | poelcat: Thanks for that date, I didn't realize we'd passed the deadline at this poitn. Jul 15 12:00
* | adamw taps foot and looks at watch Jul 15 12:00
jlaska | hehe Jul 15 12:00
stickster | OK, let's see if we can round up issues on list Jul 15 12:00
poelcat | thanks everyone Jul 15 12:00
stickster | Take it away QA! Jul 15 12:00
poelcat | #endmeeting Jul 15 12:00
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule Jul 15 12:00
zodbot | Meeting ended Wed Jul 15 16:00:39 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Jul 15 12:00
zodbot | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.html Jul 15 12:00
zodbot | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.txt Jul 15 12:00
Sparks | poelcat: Let's send out nasty grams today reminding people of their tasks and see where we are on Monday Jul 15 12:00
zodbot | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-15.00.log.html Jul 15 12:00
* | adamw would like to clarify that his watch is not in fact on his foot Jul 15 12:00
stickster | heh Jul 15 12:00
jlaska | it's how you keep such good rhythm I thought Jul 15 12:01
jlaska | poelcat: do you guys need more time? Jul 15 12:01
dpravec | hi all Jul 15 12:01
jlaska | welcome dpravec Jul 15 12:01
jlaska | we'll get started shortly Jul 15 12:01
jlaska | #startmeeting Jul 15 12:02
zodbot | Meeting started Wed Jul 15 16:02:09 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. Jul 15 12:02
zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Jul 15 12:02
poelcat | jlaska: no we are done and wouldn't want to degrade the quality of our next release :) Jul 15 12:02
jlaska | haha Jul 15 12:02
jlaska | rats, there goes my first excuse ;) Jul 15 12:02
adamw | poelcat: don't worry, we can do that well enough on our own ;) Jul 15 12:02
poelcat | lol Jul 15 12:02
jlaska | #meetingtopic Fedora QA meeting Jul 15 12:02
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:02
jlaska | #topic Gathering warm bodies Jul 15 12:02
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Gathering warm bodies (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:02
maxamillion | lol Jul 15 12:02
jlaska | okay ... we've got a few familiar faces already ... let's do a roll call Jul 15 12:03
* | jlaska Jul 15 12:03
* | maxamillion Jul 15 12:03
* | poelcat stays in his seat, hi Jul 15 12:03
* | tk009 tk009 Jul 15 12:03
* | wwoods cambot! gypsy! tom servo! and crooooooow! Jul 15 12:03
* | kparal1 is here Jul 15 12:04
adamw | good job with the list then jlaska =) Jul 15 12:04
* | dpravec is here Jul 15 12:04
jlaska | uh oh ... the pressure is on ... good turn out today :) Jul 15 12:04
jlaska | okay, we've got a hard stop today in 55 minutes (Fedora Belux meeting) Jul 15 12:05
jlaska | let's do a quick recap from last week Jul 15 12:05
jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up Jul 15 12:05
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Previous meeting follow-up (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:05
* | jlaska hopes Viking-Ice is lurking Jul 15 12:06
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20090715#Previous_meeting_follow-up Jul 15 12:06
* | Viking-Ice jumps in a little late.. Jul 15 12:06
jlaska | Viking-Ice: sweet, welcome Jul 15 12:06
jlaska | [jlaska] - update fedora-qa privs so that viking_ice is on the default bcc Jul 15 12:06
* | f13 Jul 15 12:06
jlaska | should be good there, Viking-Ice you should now be spamfull :) Jul 15 12:07
jlaska | f13: welcome! Jul 15 12:07
jlaska | Next up ... Jul 15 12:07
jlaska | * [jlaska] - file a bunch of tickets to track wiki RFC's (requests for content) for debugging pages ... email list seeking volunteers after Jul 15 12:07
jlaska | I filed just 3 so far for the 3 missing Debugging pages beland noted (see http://tinyurl.com/n6n24f) Jul 15 12:08
adamw | i'm hoping to do some work on those Jul 15 12:08
jlaska | Will send out a mail to the list letting folks know it's a good way to get involved Jul 15 12:08
jlaska | adamw: thanks, there were some other pages beland noted could use improvement ... I haven't done anything with those yet Jul 15 12:09
adamw | yeah, it's something i feel good about working on for sure, i have the resources and time for it again now Jul 15 12:09
jlaska | Awesome Jul 15 12:09
* | adamw went back from 8.9" to 40" of monitor space =) Jul 15 12:09
dpravec | i will need to feed my 12 months old daughter during this meeting. i would love to move it to another day of week, if that is possible... wednesday is not easy for me (my wife is going away for few hours, its 18:09 here) Jul 15 12:09
jlaska | dpravec: I've got a spot in the agenda to see if we can work up a new time Jul 15 12:10
dpravec | if i do not respond quickly, you know why :) Jul 15 12:10
jlaska | gotcha :) Jul 15 12:10
jlaska | okay, next up ... my always present Goal topic ... Jul 15 12:10
maxamillion | adamw: total side note, you getting native res on that vaio p yet? Jul 15 12:10
adamw | maxamillion: pm Jul 15 12:11
jlaska | * [jlaska] - update QA/Goals wiki document Jul 15 12:11
jlaska | Spent some time on that this morning, but need to keep thinking about a good way to represent and allow for growth Jul 15 12:11
jlaska | I'm not ready to toss it out for review yet ... but playing around with different methods in a draft page Jul 15 12:12
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jlaska/Draft Jul 15 12:12
jlaska | I'll keep playing throughout the week, if folks have input, feel free to get in touch with me Jul 15 12:13
jlaska | that's it from me Jul 15 12:13
jlaska | any other follow-up items folks wanted to discus from last week? Jul 15 12:13
f13 | let me look at the agenda real quick again Jul 15 12:14
f13 | well, we could talk about the changes to F12 schedule Jul 15 12:15
jlaska | Okay, I'll add that to the news section Jul 15 12:15
jlaska | #topic In the news - Fedora 12 QA schedule updates Jul 15 12:15
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: In the news - Fedora 12 QA schedule updates (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:15
jlaska | as f13 points out, a group of us gathered in fedora talk this week to hash out some ideas around QA milestones on the F12 schedule Jul 15 12:16
* | jlaska trying to find linky Jul 15 12:17
jlaska | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00241.html Jul 15 12:17
jlaska | poelcat: summarized the outcome ... as listed in the email above Jul 15 12:18
f13 | he also updated the schedule pages on his people pages Jul 15 12:18
f13 | http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-quality-tasks.html Jul 15 12:18
f13 | hrm, that seems not what you need. Jul 15 12:19
f13 | oh, n/m. It shows the testing of things, just not when they're composed. Jul 15 12:19
* | poelcat hasn't done a recent review of the quality schedule... we discussed http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-releng-tasks.html Jul 15 12:19
poelcat | which overlaps w/ both Jul 15 12:19
poelcat | though it should be correct Jul 15 12:20
adamw | the schedule looks pretty good to me Jul 15 12:20
adamw | lots of bug review days which i like :) Jul 15 12:20
jlaska | the added bug days and agreement on the pre/post freeze composes is a huge plus for me :) Jul 15 12:20
jlaska | so speaking of ... this is a good tie into the next topic ... Jul 15 12:21
jlaska | #topic Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1 - Friday, July 17th Jul 15 12:21
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Alpha Blocker Bug Day #1 - Friday, July 17th (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:21
jlaska | poelcat: sent out the reminder to f-test-list and f-devel-list ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-July/msg00239.html Jul 15 12:21
jlaska | as you can see the list is completely empty right now ... which I don't think means we have no bugs Jul 15 12:21
jlaska | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=f12alpha Jul 15 12:22
buggbot | Bug 507676: medium, low, ---, notting, NEW, Fedora 12 Alpha tracker Jul 15 12:22
adamw | maybe we should look at all f12blocker bugs and see if any are appropriate to block f12alpha too Jul 15 12:22
adamw | i've honestly just been thinking about f12blocker and not f12alpha... Jul 15 12:22
jlaska | adamw: that's a good suggestion ... there was also talk about the F11target list which you already commented on I think Jul 15 12:23
adamw | yeah, i don't have a massively strong opinion on that though. Jul 15 12:23
jlaska | agreed, nor do I Jul 15 12:23
adamw | i can take a few minutes today to go through f12blocker and put appropriate stuff on f12alpha too if you like, put that down as an action item Jul 15 12:23
jlaska | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=473303&hide_resolved=1 Jul 15 12:23
jlaska | not too too bad Jul 15 12:24
jlaska | so .. this raises the question for me, what type of issues constitute an Alpha blocker Jul 15 12:24
jlaska | should we go by severity? Jul 15 12:24
poelcat | semi-related... I drafted up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Poelstra/blocker_bug_meeting_sop Jul 15 12:24
f13 | don't we have alpha release criteria we could go by? Jul 15 12:25
jlaska | I just see the standard https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria page right now Jul 15 12:25
maxamillion | I think https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=510033 should be a F12Alpha blocker Jul 15 12:25
buggbot | Bug 510033: medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'name' Jul 15 12:25
adamw | i think for alpha we should probably be going more or less by the critical path stuff Jul 15 12:26
adamw | plus X, maybe? meh. Jul 15 12:26
jlaska | adamw: that's a good way to tie it into recent proposals Jul 15 12:26
wwoods | X is in the critical path. Jul 15 12:26
f13 | X is in the critical path Jul 15 12:26
adamw | oh ok. :) Jul 15 12:26
adamw | wusses! Jul 15 12:26
jlaska | ;) Jul 15 12:26
* | adamw has visions of ancient beardy types shaking fists Jul 15 12:27
jlaska | Do folks have any opinions on documenting what we should be keeping on the radar for the alpha? Jul 15 12:28
adamw | well, my suggestion is - make it the critical path stuff. Jul 15 12:28
poelcat | adamw: if there aren't many bugs to discuss on Friday... laying out the criteria would be a good thing to do Jul 15 12:28
* | poelcat won't be able to attend Jul 15 12:28
jlaska | adamw: yeah, I think limiting to the scope of components to critical path is a good thing Jul 15 12:28
jlaska | but does that mean all bugs against critical path components, just urgent, panics etc... Jul 15 12:29
jlaska | heck, I wonder if we should limit things to critical path for all milestones (and document how the criteria can be extended outside that scope) Jul 15 12:29
adamw | i dunno, flying by the seat of my pants here. Jul 15 12:29
jlaska | welcome to the club ;) Jul 15 12:30
jlaska | I'd be willing to take a crack at documenting some guidelines, but I could use some help with that Jul 15 12:30
adamw | i can think of some nice-in-theory approaches Jul 15 12:31
adamw | we could just use the existing work and say 'critical severity bugs in in critical path packages'... Jul 15 12:31
jlaska | hmm, that's actually good and fits ... KISS Jul 15 12:32
adamw | but in practical terms i'm not sure it can be that simple. i mean, i'm looking through f12blocker on the side right now Jul 15 12:32
adamw | and we see 486284 , which is the grub support for ext4 stuff Jul 15 12:32
jlaska | which is a RFE right? Jul 15 12:32
adamw | hmm, that's one way to square that circle, yeah Jul 15 12:32
adamw | RFE's are different! Jul 15 12:32
adamw | :) Jul 15 12:32
jlaska | heh Jul 15 12:33
dpravec | :) Jul 15 12:33
adamw | well, we can try and go with a simple definition for now and get thornier from there =) Jul 15 12:33
dpravec | i would also see all apps having manpages... iirc in debian this is serious bug... Jul 15 12:33
mcepl | let me just jump in ... "all the bugs on the critical path" is too much IMHO ... there are tons of X bugs where Xorg just isn't. Are those alpha blockers as well? Jul 15 12:33
dpravec | love to see* Jul 15 12:34
f13 | and if you say critical severity of critical path packages, then we'd have to spend the day defining the criteria to make those bugs critical severity Jul 15 12:34
f13 | because I'm sure most of them aren't. Jul 15 12:34
f13 | or many are that shouldn't be. Jul 15 12:34
adamw | we have critera for the severity ratings already. Jul 15 12:34
f13 | mcepl: "all bugs" is wrong. Jul 15 12:34
jlaska | f13: afaik ... severify is defined Jul 15 12:34
f13 | defined yes, applied? Jul 15 12:34
f13 | and does it truly match up with alpha release criteria? Jul 15 12:34
jlaska | exactly, that's I think what we're working through Jul 15 12:35
adamw | probably not 100% yet, but that's fine. what we mean is "bugs that are critical if the criteria are properly applied"... Jul 15 12:35
adamw | yeah, that's what i'm not sure about yet. Jul 15 12:35
adamw | the grub thing was my first obvious non-conformer, but as jlaska points out that's an rfe, and those are always tricky Jul 15 12:35
jlaska | it's also tricky to do this pre-freeze ... but I think this is forcing us to ask these questions waaaay before we normally do Jul 15 12:35
jlaska | which is good Jul 15 12:35
wwoods | I kinda wish we had some brainstorm type thing that RFEs could go into Jul 15 12:36
mcepl | f13: OK, is this https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=498457 Alpha blocker (to the best of my knowledge it is still the same in Rawhide as in F11)? Jul 15 12:36
wwoods | to keep them out of bugzilla Jul 15 12:36
buggbot | Bug 498457: urgent, low, ---, airlied, ASSIGNED, "radeon" driver fails on F11 Preview and Xpress 200M Jul 15 12:36
maxamillion | I'm new to the QA meetings so its highly possible this is common knowledge, but what's the process to get a bug added to a blocker list? Jul 15 12:36
jlaska | maxamillion: thanks for joining! Jul 15 12:37
adamw | mcepl: i've been working for a while on the basis that bugs in a single specific piece of hardware are not 'critical', only 'high'...could probably codify that more explicitly in the severity policy Jul 15 12:37
adamw | mcepl: because otherwise we'll just be drowning in critical X bugs Jul 15 12:37
wwoods | maxamillion: if you're confident that it's actually a blocker (see definitions) then you just add the bug alias (e.g. F12Blocker) to the "Blocks:" field on your bug Jul 15 12:37
adamw | the alias for f12 alpha is 'F12Alpha' Jul 15 12:37
mcepl | adamw: yeah, that was exactly my point Jul 15 12:37
Jul 15 12:38:00<maxamillion> | jlaska: happy to be here :) ... mainly jumping in from the aspect of the Xfce SIG, that's my main focus at the moment but Fedora as a whole I'd love to help out as much as I am able
adamw | mcepl: lemme see what we have written down about that in the policy atm Jul 15 12:38
* | mcepl is pull himself out of the discussion again Jul 15 12:38
mcepl | adamw: nothing Jul 15 12:38
mcepl | IIRC Jul 15 12:38
maxamillion | wwoods: are the blocker definitions in the wiki? Jul 15 12:38
jlaska | maxamillion: that's sort of the discussion now Jul 15 12:38
Jul 15 12:38:47<maxamillion> | jlaska: ah
* | maxamillion misunderstood Jul 15 12:38
mcepl | adamw: just that there is no way how to make Xorg work for this card without quite particular changes in xorg.conf. Jul 15 12:38
jlaska | no worries, as I see it ... trying to figure out a good way to help contributors know what a good blocker candidate bug is Jul 15 12:39
adamw | mcepl: yeah, so by the current quite short stanza in 'how to triage' it should be urgent, i agree; i'll add a caveat about hardware-specific issues there Jul 15 12:39
wwoods | maxamillion: current definition is, roughly, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria Jul 15 12:39
adamw | mcepl: in practice i've been calling bugs like that 'high', not 'urgent' Jul 15 12:39
maxamillion | wwoods: thank you Jul 15 12:39
jlaska | okay ... let's summarize this topic ... Jul 15 12:40
jlaska | * the current release criteria are located at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria Jul 15 12:40
jlaska | * For the Alpha, we've decided to evaluate bugs by severity:urgent and compoent in critial path packages? Jul 15 12:41
jlaska | or is that still a proposal that needs hashing through? Jul 15 12:41
jlaska | adamw: got a link to the severity definitions? I think my awesome bar still has the old draft link Jul 15 12:41
f13 | mcepl: re that bug, this is where we start to apply "how many people does it hurt" thinking, as well as "how long until it can be fixed" Jul 15 12:42
adamw | jlaska: there's two places: the How to Triage page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/How_to_Triage#Checklist_for_NEW_Bug_Triage (number 9) Jul 15 12:42
adamw | that has the quick practical instructions Jul 15 12:42
adamw | then the bug workflow page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow - has more detailed policy Jul 15 12:42
adamw | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow#Priority_and_Severity Jul 15 12:42
wwoods | the release criteria can (and should!) be updated to better match reality and new policies/proposals Jul 15 12:43
wwoods | they're not set in stone or anything Jul 15 12:43
adamw | i have just added a quick exception to the how-to-triage page for hardware-specific issues Jul 15 12:43
jlaska | okay ... so we'll go with the notes above for now. And likely adjust as needed Jul 15 12:44
jlaska | if folks are interested in helping to define, feel free to drop me a line or send ideas to the mailing list Jul 15 12:44
jlaska | #topic Fedora 12 Test Day schedule Jul 15 12:44
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Fedora 12 Test Day schedule (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:44
jlaska | Just a quick blurb about F12 test days ... Jul 15 12:44
jlaska | the schedule is light at this point still Jul 15 12:45
jlaska | however, adamw and I have a few topics planned that haven't yet landed on the schedule Jul 15 12:45
adamw | you may have to remind me about those, my brain is feeling lightly frazzled atm :) Jul 15 12:45
jlaska | ... incoming ... Jul 15 12:45
jlaska | I've got the full links in the minutes and on the discussion <tab> Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | but what's being planned so far includes: Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | * Revisit of X drivers (e.g. nouveau) Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | * Anaconda F12 features Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o Storage cleanup [1] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o RAID [2] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o Partition UI cleanup [3] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | * Upcoming NetworkManager changes Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o IPV6 [4] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o System-wide connections [5] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | o Mobile broadband updates [6] Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | * Audio test day Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | Jul 15 12:46
jlaska | if folks have ideas or would like to pitch a test day topic ... let me or adamw know ... or send a suggestion to the team list (fedora-test-list) Jul 15 12:47
jlaska | Dracut and Virtualization are already planned Jul 15 12:47
jlaska | and thanks to Viking-Ice for his help in fleshing out test and debugging pages for dracut! Jul 15 12:47
adamw | yeah that was awesome Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Debugging Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut/Testing Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | okay ... 12 minutes remaining ... Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | switching over to autoqa Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | #topic AutoQA - update from wwoods Jul 15 12:48
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: AutoQA - update from wwoods (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:48
jlaska | wwoods: want to walk us through a brief update? Jul 15 12:49
wwoods | sure Jul 15 12:49
wwoods | So the first big milestone for autoqa is still the israwhidebroken.com project Jul 15 12:49
wwoods | the first big chunk of that was writing the rawhide acceptance test plan Jul 15 12:50
* | kparal2 has rejoined because of broken internet connection, sorry Jul 15 12:50
wwoods | that's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan Jul 15 12:50
wwoods | last week I finished writing the test cases Jul 15 12:50
jlaska | kparal2: no worries, welcome back :) Jul 15 12:50
wwoods | two of the test cases required some critical path work to be done first Jul 15 12:51
wwoods | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Core_package_dependency_closure_test_case Jul 15 12:51
wwoods | and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Core_package_existence_test_case Jul 15 12:51
wwoods | those test cases will probably change as we develop some tools for examining the critical path packages Jul 15 12:51
wwoods | and then there's the two super-basic functional tests: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Network_basic_test_case Jul 15 12:52
wwoods | and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Yum_simple_update_test_case Jul 15 12:52
wwoods | as described in the test plan, those are the two functional things we'll check before bothering with any other testing Jul 15 12:52
wwoods | so don't get confused and think "this is all the testing they're doing?" Jul 15 12:52
wwoods | this is just the set of things we have to test before the *real* testing can even start. Jul 15 12:53
wwoods | so anyway - first versions of all the test cases are now complete and I'm starting to read up on autotest Jul 15 12:53
--- | oget_zzz is now known as oget Jul 15 12:53
wwoods | and write automated tests for these test cases Jul 15 12:53
wwoods | using the autotest API Jul 15 12:53
wwoods | more info about the tasks / progress can be found here: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com Jul 15 12:54
* | jlaska adds a blurb about cricital path to the test plan risks section Jul 15 12:54
Viking-Ice | Could we please not use this <code>blurp</code> and rather use <pre>blurp</pre> in the wiki when working with commands Jul 15 12:55
wwoods | that doesn't work inside bulleted lists. Jul 15 12:55
maxamillion | wwoods: http://autotest.kernel.org <-- is this the autotest you are talking about? Jul 15 12:55
wwoods | or rather, it breaks numbered lists Jul 15 12:55
wwoods | maxamillion: yes Jul 15 12:55
jlaska | wwoods: cool, any other updates/concerns? Jul 15 12:56
Viking-Ice | then let's not use it et al.. Jul 15 12:56
jlaska | I've asked kparal2 to look at the test case tickets you've outlined too ... so he'll be trying to familiarize himself soon Jul 15 12:56
adamw | actually, for commands you should use foobar Jul 15 12:56
f13 | maxamillion: yes, I've been working on getting it packaged and deployed in Fedora infrastrcuture for our use Jul 15 12:56
adamw | oh, that's just for one-word commands though Jul 15 12:56
Viking-Ice | adamw: that equally sucks... Jul 15 12:57
adamw | sorry. Jul 15 12:57
maxamillion | f13: ah, awesome Jul 15 12:57
f13 | any other colors we'd like the bike shed? Jul 15 12:57
wwoods | jlaska: not really? things are going to get harder when we start trying to do the boot / installer / functional tests Jul 15 12:57
f13 | or can we move on? Jul 15 12:57
adamw | f13: puce! Jul 15 12:57
wwoods | but we'll deal with that once some of the other autotest stuff is worked out. Jul 15 12:57
jlaska | wwoods: yeah exactly Jul 15 12:57
jlaska | Viking-Ice: perhaps an offline discussion around updating the usage of <code> in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing ? Jul 15 12:58
jlaska | okay last topic ... Jul 15 12:58
jlaska | with 2 minutes left Jul 15 12:58
jlaska | #topic Updated meeting time Jul 15 12:58
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Updated meeting time (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 12:58
jlaska | I'm sorry, but the meeting planner doesn't allow for more TZ's ... but here's what I'm looking at so far Jul 15 12:58
jlaska | http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=7&day=15&year=2009&p1=0&p2=256&p3=207&p4=204 Jul 15 12:58
adamw | was it bugzappers we did a matrix for before? Jul 15 12:59
jlaska | I'd like to adjust the meeting a bit to accomodate dpravec's schedule better ... besides it's been @ 16:00 for too long now :) Jul 15 12:59
Viking-Ice | who do need these time changes Jul 15 12:59
tk009 | adamw: yes Jul 15 12:59
adamw | ah, ok. so we don't have one for qa Jul 15 13:00
f13 | jlaska: that would mean moving it earlier Jul 15 13:00
jlaska | tk009: do you have a link? Jul 15 13:00
adamw | jlaska: we should probably do the same as we did for bugzappers Jul 15 13:00
jlaska | f13: another day or earlier Jul 15 13:00
f13 | jlaska: I think at most I'd be comfortable one hour earlier Jul 15 13:00
adamw | set up a matrix of possible times and see when works best for everyone Jul 15 13:00
tk009 | I dont sorry, not on my machine Jul 15 13:00
adamw | yeah, we really can't have it more than one hour earlier for those on the west coast Jul 15 13:00
adamw | one hour earlier is 7am for us in winter Jul 15 13:00
jlaska | adamw: rise and shine! Jul 15 13:00
Viking-Ice | f13: does that fit the crappy daylight savings time or do we need to change it again later in the year? Jul 15 13:01
jlaska | ugh, that'd be a wakeup call Jul 15 13:01
kparal2 | maybe it could be changed depending on summer time? Jul 15 13:01
adamw | Viking-Ice: at present we're not changing for dst Jul 15 13:01
jlaska | we keep it UTC Jul 15 13:01
f13 | Viking-Ice: as stated, an hour earlier puts it at 0700 during the winter here in the states Jul 15 13:01
adamw | Viking-Ice: it's the same time in utc all year, which means for most people it moves one hour when dst hits Jul 15 13:01
jlaska | okay, so I'll take an action to work up a matrix on the wiki and ask folks for their input Jul 15 13:01
f13 | the only other day I have an early meeting is every other Tuesday Jul 15 13:01
adamw | jlaska: if you go through the test-list archives you can probably find a link to the matrix example page Jul 15 13:02
jlaska | hopefully we can find a time that can highlight availability for folks Jul 15 13:02
f13 | so every other day either current time or less good one our earlier worksf or me Jul 15 13:02
jlaska | adamw: yeah I recall seeing it a long while ago ... thanks I'll take a look Jul 15 13:02
adamw | jlaska: oh, found it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzappers_meeting_matrix Jul 15 13:02
jlaska | adamw: sweet, thx Jul 15 13:02
jlaska | okay I'll work this up and ask folks to update sometime after the meeting Jul 15 13:03
jlaska | #topic Open discussion Jul 15 13:03
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Open discussion (Meeting topic: Fedora QA meeting) Jul 15 13:03
jlaska | okay ... time for the word of the day Jul 15 13:03
jlaska | 'Sassafras' Jul 15 13:03
jlaska | jk ... are there any topics/concerns folks want to raise during the meeting? Jul 15 13:04
kparal2 | i just have a question - how many RHEL guys participate in the Fedora test days? just to have the notion Jul 15 13:04
adamw | depends on the topic Jul 15 13:04
adamw | how do you mean 'rhel guys' exactly? Jul 15 13:04
kparal2 | well, internal redhat employees, working in RHEL Jul 15 13:05
Viking-Ice | Rebrand rawhide spins I think nirik push this to legal or some where else we need to keep an eye for it Jul 15 13:05
Viking-Ice | on it I mean Jul 15 13:05
adamw | kparal2: varies hugely by topic...some test days are essentially only _for_ that kind of person, but for something like, oh, nouveau test day, probably none Jul 15 13:05
f13 | kparal2: that's quite hard to measure Jul 15 13:05
kparal2 | ok Jul 15 13:05
jlaska | Viking-Ice: oh thanks ... is there action needed by us on that topic, or is this something to keep on the radar? Jul 15 13:05
adamw | Viking-Ice: what's our involvement in that? Jul 15 13:06
f13 | kparal2: many "rhel guys" are Fedora users themselves, many are upstream developers who use Fedora as a deployment and test platform, and many use Fedora for next RHEL development Jul 15 13:06
Viking-Ice | we make live cd for test day Jul 15 13:06
Viking-Ice | do we need to rebrand them Jul 15 13:06
jlaska | oh interesting Jul 15 13:06
jlaska | ugh Jul 15 13:06
Viking-Ice | exactly Jul 15 13:06
jlaska | okay, will definitely keep an eye on that and update the livecd creation page if needed (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/Live_Image) Jul 15 13:07
jlaska | Viking-Ice: thanks! Jul 15 13:07
Viking-Ice | this is just plain stupid Jul 15 13:07
adamw | Red Hat sues the Fedora QA group? :D Jul 15 13:07
jlaska | awesome Jul 15 13:08
* | adamw sees spot bearing down on him with legal papers Jul 15 13:08
Viking-Ice | think xfce spin maxamillions case Jul 15 13:08
Viking-Ice | rawhide spins that is Jul 15 13:08
jlaska | right Jul 15 13:08
Viking-Ice | and all spins sigs for that matter Jul 15 13:08
f13 | well, given that Red Hat/Fedora is the copyright holder on Fedora, we can make a case that we're allowed to do things with the copyright/logo that others aren't necessarily allowed to do Jul 15 13:09
f13 | so things like snapshots and test day isos would fall under allowed Jul 15 13:09
jlaska | Any other topics/concerns to raise in the meeting today folks? Jul 15 13:09
--- | stickster is now known as stickster_food Jul 15 13:09
maxamillion | sorry, was side tracked by $dayjob Jul 15 13:10
jlaska | maxamillion: no worries Jul 15 13:10
jlaska | okay gang ... let's wrap it up for today Jul 15 13:10
jlaska | I'll follow-up later today with minutes Jul 15 13:10
jlaska | thanks everyone for your time :) Jul 15 13:10
jlaska | #endmeeting Jul 15 13:11
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule Jul 15 13:11
zodbot | Meeting ended Wed Jul 15 17:11:04 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Jul 15 13:11
zodbot | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.html Jul 15 13:11
zodbot | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.txt Jul 15 13:11
maxamillion | on the topic of the xfce rawhide spins, if there is a fedora controlled resource provided by the infrastructure team that I would be able to use to build and host the images such that I wouldn't be in violation of the trademark guidelines I would be very happy to do that Jul 15 13:11
zodbot | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-07-15/fedora-meeting.2009-07-15-16.02.log.html Jul 15 13:11
maxamillion | crap Jul 15 13:11
* | maxamillion types too slow Jul 15 13:11
jlaska | maxamillion: apologies ... let's move things over to #fedora-qa for now Jul 15 13:11
maxamillion | ok Jul 15 13:11
dpravec | jlaska, sorry for afk, i think just moving it to monday or tuesday could fix the timing problem Jul 15 13:13
jlaska | dpravec: okay thanks ... I'll follow-up with a link to the meeting matrix for folks to add their times Jul 15 13:13

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!