QA/Meetings/20090810

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Contents

Attendees

  • Adam Williamson (adamw)
  • David Pravec (dpravec)
  • Edward Kirk (tk009)
  • James Laska (jlaska)
  • Jesse Keating (f13)
  • Jóhann Guðmundsson (viking-ice)
  • John Poelstra (poelcat)
  • Kamil Paral (kparal)
  • Will Woods (wwoods)
  • (Southern_Gentleman)
  • Clyde Kunkel (oldfart)
  • (yoyoned)


Regrets:

  • Liam Li (lili)
  • He Rui (rhe)


Agenda

Proposed meeting agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  • No action items from previous meeting

F-12-Alpha Test Compose

Thank you all for helping Liam gather information on the state of F-12-Alpha installer. Produced quite a few bugs, several of which landed as Alpha blocker bugs.

There will likely be another request for testing from Liam once the Alpha candidate has landed, so stay tuned.

Jesse Keating noted it feels like the QA team is testing too late and guaranteeing a schedule slip, but this could be due to the late delivery of the test compose and other test blockers.

Open Issues

alt.fedoraproject.org download speeds

The infrastructure team is curious how download speeds held up during the test compose

  • No major issues reported
  • Kparal experienced slow downloads, but the bottleneck appears to have been a bandwidth limit on the Brno side ... not the fedoraproject side.

Rawhide still contains anaconda-12.7

Jesse Keating indicated that no new anaconda builds were able to fully complete an installation and the he was holding off from tagging a new anaconda build for testing.

Dpravec shared his desire for a stable working anaconda each week. Discussion that followed identified a possible difference in how anaconda upstream development is absorbed into Fedora, when compared to other upstream projects.

Adamw proposed an idea that anaconda packaging should be treated like packaging 'any other upstream', and when we hit development freezes, only necessary changes - not full unstable anaconda point upgrades - should be committed. Continued discussion followed as to whether Fedora asserts this claim to other upstream projects.

Verification of MODIFIED bugs

Once a new anaconda build is available, Jlaska asked for help from testers to work down the list of MODIFIED bugs on the F12Alpha blocker list (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00241.html).

F-12-Alpha Readiness

In preparation for 2009-08-12 - Release Readiness Meeting, I'd like to poll the team for thoughts on high profile areas.

Open Issues

Installer readiness

QA:Fedora_12_Alpha_Install_Test_Results

Xorg-x11 readiness

Adamw informed the team that as of the time of the meeting, xorg-x11-server and xorg-x11-drv-nouveau were tagged for rawhide and known working. There were no new unresolved Alpha blocking xorg related failures on the radar.

General Feature readiness?

There are items on the Releases/12/FeatureList that appear to not be resolved for the Alpha. If the Alpha is intended to be feature complete, why do we have features that are incomplete?

There appears to have been a misunderstanding on what the term feature complete means.

Jkeating suggested we have QA owners tied to features responsible for ensuring each feature has a test plan or is testable. Jlaska expressed concerns on whether that was the right solution. Adamw pointed out that this exercise was done for F-11, and met with a resounding chorus of shrugs.

In the news

Alpha Compose

Coming to a fedoraproject website near you ...

Once Alpha candidate is available, Fedora QA will be responsible for:

  • Testing the alpha candidate -- stay tuned for information from Liam regarding QA testing of the candidate
  • Verifying MODIFIED Alpha blocker bugs --

Upcoming release events:

  • 2009-07-29 - DELAYED - Alpha Test Compose
  • 2009-08-06 - MISSED - Compose Alpha Candidate
  • 2009-08-06 - MISSED - 2009-08-13 - Test Alpha Candidate
  • 2009-08-10 - Alpha go/no_go
  • 2009-08-13 - Sync to mirrors

Fit'n'Finish Peripheral Test day

This Tuesday, August 11, 2009 will be the 3rd fit'n'finish test day on Peripherals. Matthias Clasen announced on fedora-test-list ...

 We are interesting in the problems you face when plugging anything 
 into your computer, be it a mouse, a keyboard an external hard 
 drive, a modem, a printer, a camera, a phone, a music player, a 
 GPS or whatever. 

NetworkManager Test day

This Thursday August 13, 2009 will be our first main track test day on NetworkManager. Candidate features for the test day include:

More details landing in Test_Day:2009-08-13_NetworkManager, stay tuned. Adamw planned to flesh out some wiki content later in the day.


Open discussion

AutoQA update from wwoods

Wwoods gave a quick update on recent developments on the AutoQA front. The highlights include:

  • Finalized the install test
  • Major re-factoring of the current autoqa code base
  • updated watcher scripts
  • updated docs to reflect changes

<your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  • <insert action item here>

IRC transcript

adamw | i'm here for qa meeting, will be back in 5 mins Aug 10 11:59
jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting Aug 10 12:00
zodbot | Meeting started Mon Aug 10 16:00:07 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. Aug 10 12:00
zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Aug 10 12:00
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:00
jlaska | #topic roll call Aug 10 12:00
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: roll call (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:00
* | Oxf13 Aug 10 12:00
* | kparal greets everyone Aug 10 12:00
* | dpravec rolls Aug 10 12:03
botox | fabulous Aug 10 12:03
* | tk009 Aug 10 12:03
jlaska_ | sorry, having some connectivity issues on my end Aug 10 12:03
jlaska | dfdfdfdf Aug 10 12:03
jlaska | #chair jlaska_ Aug 10 12:04
-- | Netsplit zelazny.freenode.net <- irc.freenode.net quits: danielbruno, djf_jeff, jeremy-, G_work, DigitalFlux-AFK Aug 10 12:04
zodbot | Current chairs: jlaska jlaska_ Aug 10 12:04
jlaska | adamw: is around also ... and I suspect wwoods is lurking Aug 10 12:04
* | wwoods lurk lurk Aug 10 12:05
--> | Netsplit Over - Joins: DigitalFlux-AFK Aug 10 12:05
adamw | back Aug 10 12:05
jlaska | okay, so unless any suggested changes, we can walk through the proposed agenda (https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00255.html) Aug 10 12:05
jlaska | #topic Follow-up from last week Aug 10 12:05
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Follow-up from last week (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:05
adamw | quick question so i (hopefully) don't miss it - when's the alpha go/no-go meeting? i never saw a time Aug 10 12:06
jlaska | I'm told it's at the rel-eng meeting @ 18:00 UTC Aug 10 12:06
adamw | ok thanks Aug 10 12:06
jlaska | so follow-up from last week is quick'n'easy ... there were no recorded action items Aug 10 12:06
jlaska | was there anything from last week folks would like to point out? Aug 10 12:07
jlaska | okay, silence is golden :) Aug 10 12:08
jlaska | let's dive in ... Aug 10 12:08
jlaska | #topic F-12-Alpha Test Compose Aug 10 12:08
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: F-12-Alpha Test Compose (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:08
jlaska | Just a quick thank you to all who pitched in, or tried to pitch in ... and filed bugs nonetheless Aug 10 12:08
jlaska | the F12Alpha blocker bug was fairly busy last week, and so was the test results wiki Aug 10 12:09
jlaska | Once we have more information on an Alpha candidate, look for some mail from Liam soliciting testing for that compose Aug 10 12:10
Oxf13 | it still feels like we're doing the testing too late and nearly guaranteeing a slip due to finally finding things after we've frozen. Aug 10 12:10
jlaska | hrmm, I don't feel that way Aug 10 12:10
Oxf13 | but in this case, probably becuase we were late in delivering the test compose Aug 10 12:10
Oxf13 | because of other blockers. Aug 10 12:10
jlaska | yeah Aug 10 12:10
jlaska | we had early testing before the test compose Aug 10 12:10
--- | dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone Aug 10 12:11
jlaska | so a few issues I wanted to ask for feedback from the team Aug 10 12:12
jlaska | # alt.fedoraproject.org download speeds? Aug 10 12:12
kparal | i have a comment on that Aug 10 12:12
adamw | it was fine for me, but i grabbed pretty early Aug 10 12:12
adamw | went through at 500-600k/sec Aug 10 12:12
jlaska | infrastructure has some data, but is curious if we haev any painpoints to share Aug 10 12:12
kparal | i have complained that the speeds are low last week, but i have found out that we have only 20Mbit/s for the whole RH branch in Brno Aug 10 12:12
kparal | therefore it is most certainly caused by our slow line, not fedora infrastructure Aug 10 12:13
jlaska | aah, so that was the limiting factorf for you? Aug 10 12:13
jlaska | kparal: Interesting, I didn't know that Aug 10 12:13
kparal | yes, 200 people for 20Mbit = 20kB/s for each? :) Aug 10 12:13
jlaska | use it sparingly :) Aug 10 12:13
jlaska | I'll ping Liam and He Rui as well to see if they experienced issues, but I haven't heard anything so far Aug 10 12:14
kparal | therefore i take back my complaints on alt.fedoraproject.org site :) Aug 10 12:14
jlaska | kparal: hehe, okay ... you can take your comment card out of the box :) Aug 10 12:14
jlaska | okay ... so we'll keep tabs on this for future downloads Aug 10 12:15
jlaska | mmcgrath noted they have some data available and can scrub the logs for more if needed Aug 10 12:15
jlaska | but so far, if it's failing or slow ... I haven't heard so yet Aug 10 12:15
jlaska | okay next ... Aug 10 12:16
jlaska | # Rawhide still contains anaconda-12.7 Aug 10 12:16
jlaska | Oxf13 mentioned this in #anaconda just before the meeting Aug 10 12:16
Oxf13 | this is because no anaconda beyond 12.7 actually worked Aug 10 12:16
Oxf13 | not tag worthy Aug 10 12:16
jlaska | but I was curious why rawhide still had the older test compose anaconda Aug 10 12:16
Oxf13 | (not that 12.7 worked all that great) Aug 10 12:16
-- | zelazny.freenode.net <- irc.freenode.net quits: muep__, DigitalFlux-AFK, tkjacobsen, nicubunu, glezos, dpravec, tagoh, kolesovdv, killefiz, adrianr, (+3 more) Aug 10 12:16
--> | Joins: pwbarnes, kolesovdv, adrianr, zwu, DigitalFlux-AFK, glezos, cweyl|work, nicubunu, tagoh, killefiz (+2 more) Aug 10 12:17
Oxf13 | jlaska: anaconda is critical path, and none of the proposed anaconda updates passed my critical path checking. Aug 10 12:17
jlaska | Oxf13: it seems like we could at least knock out verification of some of the MODIFIED bugs though? Aug 10 12:17
Oxf13 | not really Aug 10 12:17
Oxf13 | couldn't get through an install Aug 10 12:17
Oxf13 | things beyond 12.7 were definitely /worse/ than 12.7 itself Aug 10 12:18
jlaska | Oxf13: thanks for the info, I think that answers it Aug 10 12:18
dpravec | hooah, now i see you again :) Aug 10 12:19
jlaska | Oxf13: so you're doing some basic sanity of anaconda before tagging it for rawhide Aug 10 12:19
Oxf13 | yeah Aug 10 12:19
Oxf13 | I've played this game before Aug 10 12:19
dpravec | there were some connection problem with some freenode server Aug 10 12:19
jlaska | dpravec: I see that :) Aug 10 12:19
adamw | sorry to ask a messy question, but - why does this process seem so...difficult? Aug 10 12:19
adamw | what's going on in anaconda to cause these huge fluctuations? Aug 10 12:19
dpravec | i will try to inquire on this Aug 10 12:20
dpravec | anaconda team is located here in brq Aug 10 12:20
dpravec | they mostly told me that they have lots of dependencies Aug 10 12:20
Oxf13 | adamw: there is a lot of code that can go wrong, and it is difficult to test anaconda fully with each and every patch Aug 10 12:20
dpravec | and its almost impossible to maintain useable anaconda between releases Aug 10 12:20
Oxf13 | adamw: so the possibility of regressions is high. Aug 10 12:20
dpravec | so they would like just prepare working anakonda when release is near Aug 10 12:20
Oxf13 | adamw: rawhide is basically their change test bed Aug 10 12:21
dpravec | which is a dangerous style i do not like Aug 10 12:21
dpravec | i would love to have working and tested anaconda each week at least Aug 10 12:21
dpravec | but it will be hard to get Aug 10 12:21
* | Viking-Ice sneaks in.. Aug 10 12:21
jlaska | Viking-Ice: welcome Aug 10 12:21
adamw | at least during the alpha freeze, though, this shouldn't be happening Aug 10 12:22
Oxf13 | dpravec: we're moving toward what you don't like, only making working anaconda when we're ready to branch for a release Aug 10 12:22
adamw | we were in the alpha freeze when 12.7 came out, right? so none of the dependencies should have changed, so builds past 12.7 _really_ shouldn't be getting more broken Aug 10 12:22
dpravec | Oxf13: i know... :) Aug 10 12:22
* | adamw just figured out who oxf13 is. /me needs more sleep Aug 10 12:23
Oxf13 | adamw: yes, and a fix for a blocker introduced another blocker. Aug 10 12:23
adamw | ah. Aug 10 12:23
Oxf13 | subtle code has a way of breaking, subtly Aug 10 12:23
Oxf13 | actually, that may not be fully true Aug 10 12:23
dpravec | that needs more unittesting :) Aug 10 12:23
* | adamw wonders if it's therefore too subtle for its own good :) Aug 10 12:23
Oxf13 | I think one of the current blockers was in fact introduced after we froze for alpha, and wasn't related to an alpha blocker bug Aug 10 12:24
jlaska | that's true Aug 10 12:24
Oxf13 | however, just because Fedora freezes for alpha, doesn't mean that Anaconda upstream freezes as well Aug 10 12:24
Oxf13 | we could get pissy here and demand that the only changes brought in from upstream during freeze are for blocker bugs Aug 10 12:24
Oxf13 | not sure how well that will go over Aug 10 12:24
jlaska | we can certainly look for some ideas around this if this continues to be the pain point Aug 10 12:25
adamw | well i see two paths there in your subtle use of the word 'upstream' ;) Aug 10 12:25
dpravec | for me it looks like anaconda is a big problem for regular daily testing of rawhide Aug 10 12:25
Oxf13 | adamw: the anaconda upstream is outside of Fedora's "control" Aug 10 12:25
Oxf13 | just like rpm upstream is Aug 10 12:25
Oxf13 | and kernel upstream Aug 10 12:26
adamw | if we treat anaconda as an 'upstream project' in that way, we should have an onion layer at the level of anaconda packaging for fedora which would act as the firebreak here Aug 10 12:26
Oxf13 | adamw: yes, I agree Aug 10 12:26
dpravec | agreed Aug 10 12:26
adamw | because if we say anaconda's upstream and we can't control it but we just throw whatever they do straight into the distro, that's a problem. Aug 10 12:26
Oxf13 | adamw: I don't think anybody is disagreeing with you Aug 10 12:27
adamw | perhaps at freeze point we should go from taking anaconda version upgrades wholesale to backporting specific patches Aug 10 12:27
wwoods | who's this "we" Aug 10 12:27
adamw | yeah, sorry, i was half way into that sentence before everyone agreed with me =). that doesn't often happen :P Aug 10 12:27
adamw | wwoods: fedora, sorry Aug 10 12:27
wwoods | I need names Aug 10 12:27
adamw | whoever is the packaging layer Aug 10 12:27
wwoods | ah. Aug 10 12:27
Oxf13 | wwoods: Anaconda upstream, namely Jeremy, has long stated that anaconda as an upstream should be treated like any other upstream Aug 10 12:28
Oxf13 | Fedora rules/policies should not and cannot apply to their upstream development Aug 10 12:28
adamw | whoever does the packaging of anaconda into fedora. even if they're anaconda devs, they should be wearing a different hat to do the fedora stuff, if anaconda is so separate from fedora and un-controllable by its freeze points as is claimed. Aug 10 12:28
Southern_Ge | adamw, since fedora release engineering is also most part of the anconda team good luck Aug 10 12:28
Oxf13 | ergo the layer to apply such rules and pressure is at the packaging layer. Aug 10 12:28
adamw | Southern_Gentlem: as i'm saying, they can't have their cake and eat it. :) if they don't want to treat fedora packaging as a separate job,the position that anaconda is like 'any other upstream' is not sustainable. Aug 10 12:28
Oxf13 | Southern_Gentlem: actually I agree with adamw, and was very pissed when an unrelated change broke anaconda for the alpha. Aug 10 12:28
jlaska | I think coming to a conclusion is outside the scope of this meeting, but if there are ideas people want to develop and bring to anaconda for consideration ...we can note it Aug 10 12:29
adamw | ok, i put mine on the record then: anaconda packaging should be treated like packaging 'any other upstream', and when we hit development freezes, only necessary changes - not full unstable anaconda point upgrades - should be committed Aug 10 12:29
jlaska | thanks adamw Aug 10 12:30
Oxf13 | adamw: while I agree, we don't actually make that claim of other packages. Aug 10 12:30
Oxf13 | or rather we don't actually enforce it Aug 10 12:30
Oxf13 | we want builds that fix bugs, but we don't go deep into that build to see if anything else has changed Aug 10 12:31
adamw | Oxf13: yeah, i should un-bundle those two points; the second on the basis that, as discussed here, anaconda is so vital and 'subtle' Aug 10 12:31
Oxf13 | maybe subtle is the wrong word to use, 'difficult to test individual changes' is more appropriate Aug 10 12:31
adamw | anyway, as jlaska says, we're going to take over the meeting with this, so let's take it to a different context Aug 10 12:31
Southern_Ge | adamw, i agree with you totally Aug 10 12:32
dpravec | if you want me to go to anaconda team in brq and ask them something, tell me Aug 10 12:32
adamw | i think we'll come up with a more polished proposal / explanation of it first :) Aug 10 12:32
dpravec | ok Aug 10 12:33
jlaska | alright, the last point on the F-12-Alpha-TC was around finishing what we started Aug 10 12:33
jlaska | it's dependenct on getting a new anaconda build tagged ... but just a general call for verification of MODIFIED bugs Aug 10 12:33
jlaska | I've you filed bugs, please do your best to continue triaging them Aug 10 12:34
jlaska | if you have bugs with fixes available (MODIFIED), please circle back and help confirm the reported problem is resolved (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00241.html) Aug 10 12:34
adamw | i think the above-discussed problems may be affecting that Aug 10 12:34
jlaska | yes they are :) Aug 10 12:34
jlaska | I'd like to make sure we do get some visibility on those MODIFIED bugs to make sure what we proposed as a blocker last week is resolved Aug 10 12:35
jlaska | that's all I had on the follow-up from F-12-Alpha-TC test run ... any other comments before moving on? Aug 10 12:36
jlaska | alrighty ... Aug 10 12:37
jlaska | #topic F-12-Alpha readiness Aug 10 12:37
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: F-12-Alpha readiness (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:37
Oxf13 | not ready. Aug 10 12:37
jlaska | heh Aug 10 12:37
adamw | i think _rawhide_ itself is in fairly decent shape, but anaconda is clearly a pile of pain Aug 10 12:37
jlaska | there is an F-12-Alpha readiness meeting scheduled for this afternoon during the rel-eng meeting timeslot Aug 10 12:37
jlaska | adamw: yeah, you raised some points on Friday which prompted me to add this to the agenda Aug 10 12:38
jlaska | I think we have a good sense where the installer is now Aug 10 12:38
jlaska | but I don't have a lot of insight into other components that you guys are more familiar with Aug 10 12:38
jlaska | e.g. xorg-x11 Aug 10 12:38
jlaska | adamw: looks like that nouveau build was tagged ... are there other issues that need to be on the radar for xorg-x11-server and related drv's? Aug 10 12:39
adamw | xorg is, afaik, basically fine as of today Aug 10 12:39
adamw | with the updated server from the weekend and the updated nouveau from today, all the major brokenness i'm aware of is gone Aug 10 12:39
jlaska | I've got gdm again with those builds ... so good to hear! Aug 10 12:39
Oxf13 | "from the weekend" ? Aug 10 12:40
Oxf13 | I don't think anything got tagged on teh weekend Aug 10 12:40
adamw | or whenever it actually got into a compose Aug 10 12:40
Oxf13 | aside from your nouvau Aug 10 12:40
adamw | i forget, may've been friday Aug 10 12:40
Oxf13 | k Aug 10 12:40
dpravec | 2 weeks ago when i tried rawhide on my laptop, it failed to detect my intel card (which works in fedora) Aug 10 12:40
adamw | -28 went in saturday morning. Aug 10 12:40
adamw | dpravec: two weeks ago? that's _decades_ in rawhide time :D Aug 10 12:41
dpravec | :) Aug 10 12:41
jlaska | dpravec: are you still having that problem? Aug 10 12:41
adamw | seriously, if you could test with today's compose that'd be best Aug 10 12:41
dpravec | well i do have only virtualized rawhide now Aug 10 12:41
adamw | ah Aug 10 12:42
dpravec | this is bugging me in current fedora 11 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=516558 Aug 10 12:42
buggbot | Bug 516558: medium, low, ---, krh, NEW, cannot switch alt-button2 and alt-button3 when using desktop effects (compiz) Aug 10 12:42
oldfart | jlaska: you asked on the qa list if the three bz's I encountered today prevented me from installing fedora and the answer is yes they do. Aug 10 12:42
jlaska | dpravec: let's try to keep things focused on the Alpha for now Aug 10 12:42
dpravec | ok Aug 10 12:42
Oxf13 | adamw: ah, it was /tagged/ on Friday, but then showed up in the Saturday compose. gotcha. Aug 10 12:42
adamw | i'm not really aware of any other major gotchas in current rawhide, my system's running fine at least. Aug 10 12:43
jlaska | okay ... dpravec if you've got a rawhide live image (fit'n'finish event should have one soon) that might be a good candidate to confirm current status of intel drv Aug 10 12:44
dpravec | i will try to run it on the bare metal Aug 10 12:44
dpravec | yes Aug 10 12:44
jlaska | the other concern I have for F-12-Alpha is around the FeatureList Aug 10 12:44
jlaska | this might be more of a question for the feature wrangler since I know he's typically on top of the F 12 features Aug 10 12:45
Oxf13 | who is that masked feature wrangler? Aug 10 12:46
jlaska | and I don't see it as QA's job to report on development status of upcoming features ... but it's a still a worry Aug 10 12:46
jlaska | Oxf13: poelcat is the feature wrangler Aug 10 12:46
Oxf13 | jlaska: I was riffing on the old radio shows Aug 10 12:46
Oxf13 | jlaska: QA should concern themselves with what features are or are not "testable" and whether they have yet created a test plan Aug 10 12:47
jlaska | Oxf13: I think I left my sense of humor at the door Aug 10 12:47
jlaska | Oxf13: hrmm, maybe Aug 10 12:47
poelcat | jlaska: there is nothing funny about the feature wrangler ;-) Aug 10 12:47
Oxf13 | my sense of humor slipped a week. Aug 10 12:47
poelcat | lol Aug 10 12:47
jlaska | Oxf13: forshadowing? :) Aug 10 12:47
Oxf13 | muttergrumble Aug 10 12:48
jlaska | Oxf13: yeah I agree in a perfect world we would have QA resources lined up with each feature, but that's not going to happen any time soon Aug 10 12:48
jlaska | so, I don't have anything more to add unfortunately than just a grumble Aug 10 12:49
Oxf13 | well, even with a lack of resources to do the /testing/, we should try to make sure that things are lined up for volunteers should they want to test Aug 10 12:49
jlaska | at what cost? Aug 10 12:50
yoyoned_ | what is the state of test plans for the feature list Aug 10 12:50
jlaska | yoyoned_: exactly, I don't think we have that measurement Aug 10 12:50
jlaska | Oxf13: where we draw the line now on things that Fedora QA can actively engage on now is test days Aug 10 12:51
Oxf13 | well, if we're not going to review the test plan, nor put any resources to testing it, why even bother with that section blocking feature submissions in the first place? Aug 10 12:51
adamw | didn't we review the test plan status for f11? Aug 10 12:51
adamw | to a resounding chorus of shrugs? Aug 10 12:51
jlaska | yes Aug 10 12:51
jlaska | so the short-term take away from this is ... "Hey look there are a lot of features coming" Aug 10 12:52
jlaska | and if you want any focused coordinated testing on this stuff ... think test day Aug 10 12:52
* | poelcat wonders what topic we are discussing/deciding right now? Aug 10 12:53
jlaska | poelcat: this was a jlaska ramble topic Aug 10 12:53
jlaska | moving on now ... nothing to see here Aug 10 12:53
jlaska | a bit concerned that we are feature freeze and have a lot of features that don't seem frozen Aug 10 12:53
* | poelcat could start another round of drama by sending some email ;-) Aug 10 12:53
Oxf13 | feature freeze just means 'testable" Aug 10 12:53
Oxf13 | for whatever measure of 'testable' feature owners set Aug 10 12:54
adamw | right, i think one thing that came out of the -devel-list discussion is that that was apparently not at all clear Aug 10 12:54
jlaska | yeah Aug 10 12:54
adamw | i'm looking at the 'feature process' page and not seeing any explanation of what the 'completion' percentage should actually be measuring Aug 10 12:55
* | poelcat suggests covering feature process in separate meeting... starting with a proposal Aug 10 12:55
adamw | yeah, fair point, we're off-topic here, probably Aug 10 12:56
jlaska | yeah, I started this topic, so I'll be happy to come back with something actionable Aug 10 12:56
jlaska | okay ... next up ... just a few upcoming QA events Aug 10 12:56
jlaska | #topic Alpha Compose Aug 10 12:56
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Alpha Compose (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:56
jlaska | not a lot on this except that as some date in the near future a compose will land in the woods Aug 10 12:57
jlaska | there are still issues on the list, but stay tuned to the new @ 5 for the latest Aug 10 12:57
jlaska | once the compose lands, we'll be asked to help validate the alpha candidate as well as verify defects Aug 10 12:58
jlaska | also coming this week ... Aug 10 12:58
jlaska | #topic Fit'n'Finish Peripheral Test day Aug 10 12:58
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Fit'n'Finish Peripheral Test day (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:58
jlaska | you may have seen mclasen's note to several fedora lists Aug 10 12:58
jlaska | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00192.html Aug 10 12:58
jlaska | there are some very basic test cases defined, so I encourage folks to lend an hour to provide feedback using a live image Aug 10 12:59
jlaska | and last up for the week ... Aug 10 12:59
jlaska | #topic NetworkManager Test day Aug 10 12:59
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: NetworkManager Test day (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 12:59
jlaska | We'll have our first main track event kicking off this week with NM Aug 10 13:00
adamw | yaay Aug 10 13:01
jlaska | adamw: we've got a few requests to assist with the planning of the NM event this week Aug 10 13:01
jlaska | ;) Aug 10 13:01
adamw | i talked to vbenes already Aug 10 13:01
jlaska | oh good Aug 10 13:01
jlaska | I stubbed out a crummy page just to quell any feers that the event wasn't happening Aug 10 13:02
jlaska | but that page will clearly need the adamw touch Aug 10 13:02
jlaska | each week now we'll be having a main track test day event Aug 10 13:03
adamw | i'm working on that today, around all these useless^^^^^^^highly productive meetings Aug 10 13:03
adamw | ;) Aug 10 13:03
jlaska | ;) Aug 10 13:03
jlaska | should be a good example for dpravec and kparal who will be hosting their first next week ... ABRT Aug 10 13:04
jlaska | #topic <your topic here> Aug 10 13:04
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: <your topic here> (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 13:04
jlaska | okay folks ... that's enough of me talking Aug 10 13:04
jlaska | any open topics people would like to discuss? Aug 10 13:05
jlaska | oldfart: Lemme circle back with you on those 3 bugs you raised earlier Aug 10 13:06
wwoods | I'll do a super-fast autoqa update Aug 10 13:06
jlaska | wwoods: go for it! Aug 10 13:06
jlaska | #topic Open discussion - AutoQA update Aug 10 13:06
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Open discussion - AutoQA update (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 13:06
wwoods | okay so last week I got the install test pretty well finalized Aug 10 13:06
wwoods | and then did a major refactoring of the current autoqa code base (in a git branch named wwoods-autotest) Aug 10 13:07
wwoods | autotest-ified the existing tests, rewrote the autoqa test launcher and updated the watcher scripts Aug 10 13:07
wwoods | updated the docs to reflect the changes Aug 10 13:07
wwoods | as of right now some of the tests are starting to send emails to the autoqa-results list Aug 10 13:08
wwoods | we should have them running automatically every day (and sending test results) Very Soon Aug 10 13:08
wwoods | probably before the week is out Aug 10 13:08
jlaska | wwoods: do I need to bump anything to get those in w/o moderation? Aug 10 13:08
--- | sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas Aug 10 13:09
wwoods | this is running on some internal test systems, it's an experimental trial Aug 10 13:09
wwoods | a public trial will be forthcoming, along with docs on writing tests/watchers and other fun things. Aug 10 13:09
wwoods | jlaska: no idea Aug 10 13:09
jlaska | wwoods: sounds like a ton of progress last week. Nice work integrating the existing watchers+autoqa driver into autotest Aug 10 13:10
wwoods | yeah autotest is just the test harness/scheduler - we should be keeping the tests and the watchers no matter what else changes Aug 10 13:11
wwoods | anyway we'll work out the autoqa-results moderation stuff ASAP. Aug 10 13:11
wwoods | that's all. Aug 10 13:11
jlaska | cool, thanks for the update! Aug 10 13:11
jlaska | #topic Open discussion Aug 10 13:11
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Open discussion (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 10 13:11
jlaska | any other topics to discuss in todays meeting? Aug 10 13:12
jlaska | closing out in 2 minutes .. Aug 10 13:12
Oxf13 | *doooom* Aug 10 13:13
jlaska | heh, just about :) Aug 10 13:13
adamw | i'm going to sing the doom song now! Aug 10 13:13
jlaska | btw ... the movie is no good Aug 10 13:14
jlaska | any with that ... let's close it out Aug 10 13:14
Oxf13 | people are just noticing that the dracut images are /huge/ and we don't have room for them on Live images Aug 10 13:14
* | adamw is the sixth best doom player in the world Aug 10 13:14
Oxf13 | so that's going to be a fun conversation. Aug 10 13:14
jlaska | #endmeeting Aug 10 13:14
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule Aug 10 13:14
zodbot | Meeting ended Mon Aug 10 17:14:25 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Aug 10 13:14
zodbot | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-10/fedora-meeting.2009-08-10-16.00.html Aug 10 13:14
zodbot | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-10/fedora-meeting.2009-08-10-16.00.txt Aug 10 13:14
zodbot | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-10/fedora-meeting.2009-08-10-16.00.log.html Aug 10 13:14
jlaska | Oxf13: I saw that :( Aug 10 13:14
adamw | Oxf13: the dracut-generated initramfses? Aug 10 13:14
Oxf13 | adamw: yes. Aug 10 13:14
adamw | ic Aug 10 13:14
jlaska | thanks everyone, look forward to next week when we challenge Adam's place as #6 best doom player Aug 10 13:15
adamw | hah, i'd like to see you try Aug 10 13:15
* | jlaska has a bfg, and knows how to use it Aug 10 13:15
wwoods | well, dracut can make mkinitrd-style "only what the system needs" images, but uh.. if everything's in the initrd, shouldn't that just move data from the root filesystem to initrd? Aug 10 13:15
adamw | jlaska: oh really? have you read the essay? :P Aug 10 13:15
jlaska | adamw: oh, sounds like I've got some reading to do? Aug 10 13:15
adamw | it takes a good five hundred words minimum to explain how the BFG works Aug 10 13:16
adamw | hehe Aug 10 13:16
pjones | wwoods: huh? Aug 10 13:16
adamw | jlaska: http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/BFG9000 section 'combat characteristics' is a good summary ;) Aug 10 13:16
jlaska | awesome :) Aug 10 13:17

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