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Attendees

People present (lines said):

  1. jlaska (106)
  2. wwoods (23)
  3. adamw (20)
  4. jskladan (20)
  5. kparal (13)
  6. Viking-Ice (6)
  7. jsmith (5)
  8. vaschenb (4)
  9. zodbot (3)
  10. satellit_ (2)
  11. topy (1)
  12. skvidal (1)

Unable to attend:

  1. Liam
  2. Rhe
  3. Newgle1

Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  1. adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria
No updates, both jlaska and adamw have been busy
Jlaska agreed to send this out to design-team@ for review this week
  1. adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images
Updates posted to wiki page, thanks Adam
  1. jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations
Adam was in the mood for wiki, thanks
  1. maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5
Ticket updated, but it was later determined that RC#5 was not required.

F14 Alpha Status

Owner - rhe, adamwill
Summary
F-14 Alpha RC#4 compose CD and DVD images accepted as F-14-Alpha (see http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-08-19/fedora-meeting.2010-08-19-00.00.html)
Next steps...
Raise awareness of F-14-Alpha known issue ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda
  • jsmith asked the docs team to add an admonition to the top of the release notes
  • jsmith noted he would hilight this issue in the announcement mail as well
  • adamw was planning to ask the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page
Monitor incoming bugs and propose/draft content for for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs

AutoQA update

Owner - User:wwoods
Summary
Jskladan improving how to write autoqa tests wiki page
Vojta posted upgrade-path test for review -- autoqa ticket#123
Wwoods and kparal discussed depcheck test cases, and posted initial tests for feedback -- autoqa ticket#202
Kparal noted that standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible
Kparal posted patch to correct failing rpmguard tests
Next steps...
Jlaska - apply and test kparal's koji_utils fix and report results
Jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki
Complete review of upgrade-path test -- autoqa ticket#123
Jskladan to post updated Writing_AutoQA_Tests to match the recent changes (control.autoqa, using AutoQATest, hook args, etc.)
Complete depcheck test cases -- autoqa ticket#202
Jskladan and Wwoods to collaborate on mash support
Kparal and Wwoods to collaborate on depcheck unittest framework and remaining tests

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  1. jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page
  2. (autoqa) jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html)
  3. (autoqa) jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Aug 23 15:00:24 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
jlaska #topic Gathering .... 15:01
* kparal available for the next 45 minutes 15:01
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:01
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:01
* vaschenb 15:01
* jsmith is here 15:01
* wwoods here 15:02
adamw yo 15:02
* Viking-Ice here 15:02
* jlaska figures joza is lurking 15:04
jlaska alright ... let's get started so we can have kparal here for autoqa time 15:04
jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:05
* jskladan lurks 15:05
jlaska jskladan hey there lurker! 15:05
jlaska #info adamw to update http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_desktop_updates to better describe the test experience on live images 15:06
jlaska looks like this got some recent edits 15:06
adamw yeah, it should be right now. 15:06
jlaska thanks adamw, I see the live qualifications ... looks good 15:07
jlaska #info jlaska to update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Testcase_Anaconda_User_Interface_Basic_Video_Driver so that it better captures the post-install xdriver=vesa expectations 15:07
jlaska I believe this is complete ... and not because of me 15:07
* adamw did that too 15:07
jlaska adamw was a wiki editing machine last week 15:07
jlaska #info maxamillion update rel-eng TRAC#3860 to request RC#5 15:08
jlaska maxa completed this ... but turned out we had a course correction and RC#5 wasn't required 15:08
jlaska #info adamw and jlaska to propose artwork final release criteria 15:08
adamw man, we suck 15:09
jlaska a classic ... adamw, my name has been on that one, but I haven't touched it. Do you want me to reach out to design-team for thoughts? 15:09
adamw if you could that'd be great 15:09
adamw or if you're busy i can do it 15:09
adamw either way 15:09
jlaska alright, I'll fire that off this week 15:09
jlaska that's all I had from last week ... let's dive into the agenda 15:10
jlaska #topic F14 Alpha QA Status 15:10
jlaska well, first off ... congrats everyone 15:10
jlaska yet another Fedora release milestone behind us 15:10
adamw *party poppers* 15:10
jlaska they just keep on coming, don't they 15:10
kparal *enjoys* 15:11
jlaska adamw: I know you wanted to raise awareness on the radeon issue ... was there anything you wanted to discuss there? 15:11
adamw jlaska: yeah, i'm a bit uneasy on that, i was assuming we'd have the readiness meeting to do it, but apparently we didn't schedule another readiness meeting even though the release was delayed (seems odd to me) 15:12
adamw so i'll have to contact docs and websites teams directly, i haven't done that yet, i'll do it today 15:12
jlaska jsmith: anything you can think of to help elevate the visibility of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda 15:13
jlaska #info adamw wants to raise awareness of known radeon display issue (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F14_bugs#radeon-anaconda) 15:15
jlaska have folks been testing with F-14-Alpha + updates-testing? 15:15
wwoods that's what I'm running 15:15
jlaska it was only an improvement for me after the update ... that was good news 15:16
jlaska adamw: CommonBugs looks in good shape ... anything else on your radar to close out F-14-Alpha for QA? 15:16
adamw me too 15:16
adamw it's slightly rough with all the gnome changes 15:16
jsmith jlaska: I've asked the Docs folks to add an admonition to the one-page release notes for F14 Alpha 15:17
jlaska jsmith: ah nice, thank you 15:17
adamw jsmith: awesome, thanks 15:17
adamw jsmith: i'm planning on asking the web group if they can put a one-liner with a link to release notes or common bugs on the download page 15:18
jsmith I think we'll also highlight it in the announcement email 15:18
jlaska both good ideas 15:19
adamw no need to self-flagellate, just a quick mention with a link is fine 15:19
jlaska adamw: I created an F14 QA retrospective wiki stub last week ... but I'll clean that up a bit and send that out so we can start collecting the good/bad/ugly 15:20
jlaska #action jlaska to publish F-14-Alpha QA retrospective page 15:20
jlaska in case it wasn't clear ... *huge* thanks again to all who contributed testing, especially the fast turn around on RC#4. While we did end up slipping for another issue, it was very helpful to have a sense for how the installer and desktop test matrices held up to the alpha release criteria 15:22
jlaska adamw: any other Alpha topics/thoughts (or Jerry Springer final thoughts)? 15:22
adamw of course, what this has all showed is that the really important thing is family... 15:23
jlaska LOL! 15:23
adamw er, nope. :) 15:23
jlaska alrighty ... well done 15:23
jlaska alright ... do you hear the music? 15:24
jlaska that's not Duff man ... it's AutoQA time 15:24
jlaska #topic AutoQA Package Acceptance 15:24
jskladan well, no funky updates from me - i've been testing F14 a bit, and focused mostly on the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki 15:25
jlaska I know F-14 pulled away some time+energy from some autoqa work, but it appears there was some progress last week 15:25
kparal my patch that standardized some hook args was accepted, so it created better options for multihook tests 15:26
jlaska jskladan: awesome, I can't wait to see the updated wiki page ... so much has changed with some of the recent patch sets 15:27
jlaska standardized hook args being one of the big ones! 15:27
jlaska how's the multi-hook milestone looking? 15:27
* jlaska checks 15:27
wwoods and control.autoqa, and new stuff in control files and test wrappers 15:27
jlaska down to only 1 ticket in the multi-host milestone ... that's great 15:28
jlaska https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/203 15:28
kparal multi-hook milestone is almost finished, now only to schedule tests for multiple hooks, which should be piece of cake. the framework is ready 15:28
jlaska vaschenb: have you had a chance to look at those multi-hook tests kparal mentioned? Does that seem do-able with the time remaining? 15:30
jlaska vaschenb: I'm sure multi-hook guru kparal can help answer any questions too :) 15:31
jlaska wwoods: how's the depcheck front progressing? 15:31
vaschenb jlaska: not yet, today I worked on upgradepath output... 15:31
kparal I requested some upgradepath output format improvement at vaschenb :) 15:31
wwoods jlaska: we've got some new unittests in depcheck that actually, like, prove that depchecking works as expected 15:31
wwoods at least partially 15:31
vaschenb jlaska: I'll take a look at it, but today I'm functionless 15:32
jlaska wwoods: Bonus points for using built-in python unittest module! That's really cool looking stuff 15:32
wwoods I split it up into a module and a CLI so we can keep the tool and the tests in different files.. little cleaner that way 15:32
wwoods so the next thing to do is to start using mash instead of createrepo 15:32
wwoods so we can actually handle multilib stuff properly 15:32
jlaska #info jskladan improving 'how to write autoqa tests' wiki page 15:32
* jlaska info's 15:33
jlaska #info kparal standardized hook argument patch set accepted ... multi-hook tests now possible 15:33
jlaska #info vaschenb improving upgrade-path test output 15:33
jlaska #info wwoods posted info about depcheck unit test framework 15:34
wwoods mostly last week was about cleaning things up - f14a kind of took priority 15:34
jlaska yeah ... these darn milestones! 15:35
jlaska #info wwoods posted thoughts on depcheck next steps -- https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001010.html 15:35
jlaska wwoods: you get any lucky volunteers for the mash work yet? 15:36
wwoods jlaska: unfortunately I think I volunteered myself 15:36
jlaska did everyone step back (but you)? 15:36
jsmith jlaska: I think that's closer to the truth 15:37
jlaska doh! 15:37
jskladan wwoods: i said i'll dig into that 15:37
jskladan maybe not too loud :) 15:37
jlaska hehe 15:37
wwoods jskladan: heh! maybe so. That'd be great 15:38
jlaska yeah, +1 on the thanks jskladan 15:38
jskladan wwoods: yeah, no problem at all. I'll have it on my radar, once i finish the wiki edit 15:38
wwoods I'll try to help round up some info from the mash 'experts' 15:38
skvidal s/mash experts/notting/ 15:38
jlaska there were 2 other non-depcheck items that I was aware of ... kparal do you want to talk about your latest patch to the list? 15:39
wwoods mash seems to be one of those things where nobody fully understands it, so anyone who touches it immediately becomes a new 'expert' 15:39
kparal ah, yes. well 15:39
kparal this patch: https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html 15:40
* jskladan looking forward to be the so called expert on yet another fancy field :) 15:40
jlaska #info some rpmguard tests failing, see kparal's proposed patch https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html 15:40
kparal I think the code was wrong all the time. we requested the last release of a certain package, but we didn't check the provided repo, just its parents 15:41
kparal which I didn't really understood and I believe it was wrong, until someone proves me otherwise :) 15:41
wwoods very possible 15:42
kparal so I have rewritten it to a behaviour I suppose it's correct, and by the way it also fixed the traceback we received before 15:42
jlaska should I just apply this patch to our current instance? 15:42
kparal jlaska: I believe it should work (better than before) 15:42
jlaska kparal: okay, I'll apply and respond with results 15:43
kparal jlaska: yes please 15:43
* kparal has to run, sorry 15:43
jlaska #action jlaska apply and provide results against autoqa patch (https://fedorahosted.org/pipermail/autoqa-devel/2010-August/001028.html) 15:43
jlaska kparal: cya 15:43
jlaska the other non-depcheck issue was vaschenb upgrade-path test 15:43
jlaska I commented that I thought we'd probably want a method of running this test outside of the test harness (for folks who play the autoqa home-game) 15:44
jlaska but then kparal and vaschenb pointed out that you can run the tests locally using a method I wasn't aware of 15:44
jlaska just using 'autoqa post-bodhi-update --local ...' 15:44
* jskladan likes (and heavily uses) the --local) 15:44
jlaska wwoods: did you have any thoughts on that approach vs a stand-alone script? 15:45
wwoods either way seems fine to me 15:46
jlaska I really like the stand-alone version, but then that means we have to write multiple option parsers etc... 15:46
jlaska I don't often install 'autoqa' when testing out of git ... so I'm not familiar with this method 15:47
wwoods I guess I just want to make sure we recognize that writing a test this way is not the most obvious (or simplest) path for general audiences 15:47
jlaska as long as we document how to run the test somewhere, right? 15:47
wwoods if you're skilled at hacking around in autoqa already then yeah, this totally works and saves you having to write option parsers etc. 15:48
wwoods but for people who are like "hey I want to write a test, how does autoqa work" I'm still going to suggest "Write the test first, you don't need to know the full details of how autoqa works until you have a working test" 15:48
jskladan well, my opinion is also a bit torn between these two options - having the test as "standalone" is absolutely superb for non-autoqa geeks 15:48
jskladan but some tests can benefit a big time from the autoqa libs 15:49
jlaska jskladan: you can still use autoqa libs for the stand-alone test 15:49
jlaska just not autotest libs 15:49
jskladan well, if you "make install" the autoqa, that is 15:49
wwoods in short: I'm happy with both methods, but that means we need to support two ways of writing tests 15:50
jlaska at least, that was my understanding of 'stand-alone' ... but this topic pointed out that the definition of 'stand-alone' was a bit vague 15:50
wwoods one for autoqa hackers only, and one that's for everyone 15:50
jskladan i do like the --local, because i do not have to provide a arg parser for my script 15:50
jskladan (because autoqa parses it for me) 15:50
jlaska that's nice 15:51
jskladan but i sure do understand the stand-alone benefits 15:51
jskladan and i totally agree with will on "write the test first" for non-autoqa-hackers 15:51
jlaska so it doesn't seem there is a _wrong_ way to do this ... and this can be left as an exercise for the author? 15:52
wwoods so yeah I think we're agreed here: non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers 15:52
jlaska #info in response to Vojta's upgrade-path patch, the group agreed that non-standalone tests are totally acceptable - and really handy for proficient autoqa hackers 15:53
jskladan i belive, that we can all agree, that we should document (and highlight) the --local option 15:53
jskladan so the non-hackers are able to run current tests 15:53
jlaska more docs! 15:53
jskladan (maybe a note on the "how to write tests"?) 15:53
wwoods yeah, definitely! 15:53
jskladan jlaska: docs rock the world :) 15:53
jlaska jskladan: :D 15:54
jlaska alrighty ... anything other autoqa topics? 15:54
jskladan so, i'll add a "how to run the test" note to the wiki page 15:54
jlaska jskladan: feel free to queue up a ticket for future consumption 15:54
jlaska this is one that even I can probably help with ... esp since I'd like to learn this method 15:55
jskladan #action jskladan to add "how to run autoqa test" note to the "how to write autoqa tests" wiki 15:55
jlaska vaschenb: wwoods: anything else from you guys? 15:55
wwoods nope, I'm good 15:55
vaschenb jlaska: nothing 15:55
jlaska alright, thanks folks ... love seeing the patch review and test progress on autoqa-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org 15:56
jlaska great to see things moving forward 15:56
jlaska Okay ... it's that time again ... 15:56
jlaska #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here> 15:56
jlaska anything to discuss/review/debate that we haven't already touched on? 15:57
jlaska if nothing raised, I'll close out the meeting in 2 minutes 15:57
* adamw has nothing 15:58
topy I search technical documentation about architectural of fedora cluster (redhat), but I don't find nothing of interesting. Can someone drive me to some useful links ? 15:58
jsmith topy: Please don't interrupt the meeting to ask a non-related question 15:59
jlaska Closing out in 30 seconds ... 15:59
Viking-Ice jlaska: I wanted to ask if it has been considered to the nightly composes actually would use updates-testing or special koji repo for their compose.. 15:59
Viking-Ice so testers would get the latest bits instead of some outdated ones 16:00
jlaska Viking-Ice: I believe we talked about that at a previous meeting ... kparal raised that topic in your absence 16:00
* jlaska finds 16:00
Viking-Ice Oh I see 16:00
jlaska https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20100816#Nightly_live_composes 16:00
jlaska Viking-Ice: you might want to add your point to the QA retrospective once I post the link ... 16:01
adamw note, not captured in the summary there, nirik's explanation: 16:01
adamw " the idea was that we should be testing the thing that we would ship." 16:01
jlaska it would be a nice addition to the current live image process, but I don't think I'd want it to *replace* the live images used now 16:02
jlaska adamw: thanks 16:02
Viking-Ice we got alpha beta etc images for that 16:02
satellit_ Are the nightly composes working? last one for soas seems to be the 18th 16:02
Viking-Ice satellit_: offtopic ask in QA 16:03
satellit_ ok 16:03
jlaska satellit_: they appear to have failed ... we can follow-up with nirik in #fedora-qa 16:04
jlaska alright folks ... thanks for your time 16:04
jlaska I'll send minutes to the list 16:04
jlaska #endmeeting 16:04

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