QA/Meetings/20130318

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (98)
  • jreznik (40)
  • Martix (38)
  • kparal (22)
  • tflink (18)
  • zodbot (3)
  • satellit_e (3)
  • spoore (1)
  • nirik (1)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • jskladan (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 19 Alpha status
  • Criteria re-design
  • Test Days
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • jreznik to ink in the proposed image schedule, and add a Test Day entry - this was done: QA, release engineering

Fedora 19 Alpha status

  • We discussed the current state of F19 test images: potential issues in image compose, dracut, selinux and gnome-initial-setup, adamw and anaconda team investigating
  • We noted that both TC1 and GNOME Test Day images were required soon

Criteria re-design

  • There was general agreement to give adamw's revised Alpha and Beta criteria a try for F19

Test Days

  • 2013-03-21 GNOME Test Day: we agreed to look at a fallback plan of building GNOME 3.8 images on Fedora 18 if workable Fedora 19 images were not possible

Open floor

  • tflink would be AFK at Pycon much of the week

Action items

  • adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state
  • adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by Wednesday

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:01
zodbot Meeting started Mon Mar 18 15:01:27 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:01
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:01
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:01
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:01
adamw #topic roll call 15:01
adamw roll up, roll up, for the qa meeting 15:01
* jreznik is still here, from meeting, to meeting 15:01
* tflink is here 15:01
* mkrizek is here 15:02
* pschindl is here 15:02
* spoore is lurking 15:03
* nirik is lurking as well 15:03
* kparal joins 15:03
adamw morning everyone 15:04
* adamw wonders what happened to our favourite viking lately 15:04
adamw longboat got raided? 15:04
tflink pillaging, most likely :-D 15:04
* Martix is here 15:05
adamw hehe 15:06
Martix adamw: lol 15:06
adamw okey dokey 15:06
adamw #topic previous meeting follow-up 15:06
adamw so just one item this week 15:06
adamw "jreznik to ink in the proposed image schedule, and add a Test Day entry" 15:06
* satellit_e joins late -listening 15:06
jreznik Test Day entry is added, schedule updated 15:07
jreznik #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/f-19-quality-tasks.html 15:07
jreznik #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/f-19-releng-tasks.html 15:07
jreznik ambassadors also asked for Test Days Reminder 15:07
jreznik (week before test days starts) 15:07
adamw thanks! 15:08
adamw #info this was done, see links above 15:08
jreznik please review the changes, in schedule, everything depends on everything and especially cutting out release candidates was... like rewriting it from scratch :) 15:08
adamw we'll make sure it just says 'vacation' for six months 15:08
* jreznik is going to update schedule with vacations :) 15:09
adamw #topic Fedora 19 Alpha status 15:09
adamw so...we were supposed to do RATS last week, that didn't happen because the tree's still too ropey 15:09
adamw i went to build a test image and could not get one that worked 15:09
adamw there have been some fixes for various things since friday and i'll keep bashing, but f19 tree doesn't appear to be in particularly great shape right now 15:10
jreznik do you know what everything is broken and makes it impossible to compose it? 15:10
kparal I'm trying to build an image too. no success 15:10
adamw anyone else have experience trying to build images? 15:10
kparal but still struggling 15:10
adamw kparal: cool 15:10
adamw so I think just about everything on the blocker list is affecting us - http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/19/alpha/buglist 15:10
* satellit_e mine with live cd tools have not worked 15:10
* tflink hasn't tried yet 15:10
jreznik btw first TC is planned for tmrw, maybe asking for it officialy (as it's TC) could lead to more push on fixing stuff 15:11
adamw well, I know harald and bcl are already kinda focused on it 15:12
adamw actually let's see if we can pull them in 15:12
jreznik should we go through the list one by one? yes, it will be mini blocker review... :( 15:13
tflink jreznik: we said no blocker reviews during QA meetings for 19 15:14
tflink it makes them harder to keep track of and makes the QA meetings longer 15:14
adamw hmm, looks like they're not around 15:14
adamw right, we'll do the blocker review proper on wednesday 15:14
adamw i just wanted to note it as it hits a lot of the issues affecting composes 15:15
Martix it also affects Gnome Test Day 15:15
jreznik tflink: I know, we said no - but we should move with composes... 15:15
Martix Wednesday is late 15:15
adamw that's next in the schedule. 15:15
adamw er, later in the schedule. 15:15
adamw agenda. 15:15
Martix I know 15:15
adamw MEETING LIST THINGY 15:15
Martix my point is, we need to talk to them today 15:16
adamw yes 15:16
adamw i'll do that 15:16
Martix here or elsewhere :-) 15:16
Martix ok 15:16
adamw kparal: so where are you stuck on image compose? 15:16
kparal adamw: livecd-creator throws lots of errors when you run it on F18. I talked to bcl and he told me I have to use the same Fedora release, otherwise the result is not guaranteed 15:17
adamw kparal: right, that's how i've always done it 15:17
kparal so I installed F19 today, but I wasted an hour fighting with NFS, it seems to be completely broken 15:17
adamw i actually just set up a VM to use for image builds 15:17
kparal so now I'll be running livecd-creator on F19 15:18
tflink yeah, I usually have VMs set up for the smoke builds 15:18
adamw okay, so you don't have any further data on borkage issues 15:18
kparal no, sorry 15:18
adamw okay 15:18
kparal but we know that gdm is broken, even if we succeed in composing it 15:18
adamw i guess i'm in pole position on that one 15:18
adamw that seems to have been reported by multiple people for fresh images/installs, yeah 15:19
adamw my 'live' f19 system doesn't have gdm problems, though... 15:19
adamw so i guess i'll be working on this this week! 15:19
adamw does anyone else have useful data on the f19 state that hasn't been brought up yet? 15:19
kparal I used F18 anaconda to install F19 gnome, and it is broken. I even updated to latest Rawhide, still broken 15:20
kparal (gdm) 15:20
kparal but I haven't reported it yet, or looked for it 15:20
kparal Martix: have you succeeded in finding the gdm bug? 15:20
* satellit_e I got lucky with KDE test day instructions and got f20 KDE....? 15:20
Martix kparal: that was clutter 15:21
Martix its already fixed 15:21
adamw Martix: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=917246 doesn't seem to have that info 15:21
adamw is there another bug? 15:22
kparal Martix: is it already pushed to F19? 15:22
Martix that another bug 15:22
Martix kparal: yes, I verified it on Friday on my F19 machine 15:22
kparal so we have multiple bugs here 15:23
Martix kparal: try disable gnome-initial-setup or remove it as in #6 comment 15:23
jreznik Martix: isn't the clutter one related to wayland support? 15:23
Martix jreznik: it was 15:23
Martix jreznik: well, on Friday I have distro-synced form Rawhide (F20) to F19 and verified that GDM/Gnome works 15:24
Martix #917246 seems to be related to gnome-initial-setup 15:25
adamw Martix: what was the bug # for the other one? 15:25
Martix adamw: no #, I wasn't able to reproduce it on synced F19 15:26
jreznik I'd say it was combination of all issues and people were/are hitting all of them/or part of them 15:26
adamw okay. 15:26
jreznik the wayland one was discussed on ml 15:26
Martix kparal: try to remove gnome-initial-setup and reboot 15:27
adamw #action adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state 15:27
kparal Martix: thanks, I will, just not right now 15:28
Martix kparal: ok, if it'll work, we have at least workaround 15:28
* jreznik will try to help adamw 15:28
Martix but also we lose one critical path Gnome compent for Test Day 15:29
jreznik so do we want to request TC tmrw? to raise it "officially"? 15:29
adamw #info we have possible issues in image compose, dracut, selinux and gnome-initial-setup 15:29
adamw jreznik: wait and see. i don't think we need to play that kind of game and i'd rather not waste releng's time unless it's really necessary. 15:29
adamw #info TC1 supposed to be tomorrow, GNOME test day on Thursday: we need images 15:30
jreznik ok 15:31
* jskladan hates the snow calamity... 15:31
kparal jskladan: welcome the spring 15:31
tflink snow calamity? 15:31
Martix same here 15:31
kparal it's a snow blizzard out here :) 15:32
tflink it's I see palm trees outside - no snow 15:32
Martix tflink: that was 14 days ago 15:32
adamw #topic criteria re-design 15:32
adamw so sorry to throw this on the list again, but I did put the beta draft out this week 15:33
adamw and i figure now is a good time for an go/no-go on whether to use the rewritten criteria for F19 15:33
adamw we've only done one blocker review so far with like two bugs in it, but if we want to switch we should probably do it before the next review meeting and tc1 15:33
tflink yeah, that makes sense 15:34
* jreznik likes generally likes it - see my latest comment, not sure about contingency part wording 15:34
jreznik and if we go with it now, it does not mean it will be set in stone 15:34
jreznik let's see how it works earlier than later 15:35
kparal adamw: are you referring to the new format or the new wording right now? 15:35
adamw kparal: as a practical matter, both, though we can tweak the layout as we go along 15:35
adamw note i went with the header style from your proposals that most people liked 15:35
kparal I like the new layout and I haven't studied the wording changes in much detail 15:35
adamw did people get a chance to look over the beta partitioning stuff? that's probably the most significant practical wording change 15:36
adamw all the other wording means pretty much what it did before, there's no big _practical_ change 15:36
* jreznik was more looking on the layout more than wording too 15:36
adamw well review on the wording is welcome to catch anywhere i messed up :) 15:37
kparal that means we all trust adamw and will burn him at a stake later, if we discover a problem 15:37
tflink kparal: if you ever wondered why people don't usually volunteer to submit criteria revisions ... 15:38
jreznik it's hard to review it "theoretically" - would be better to see it in action - especially when the revamp is quite big 15:39
adamw jreznik: sure, it's always nice to catch whatever you can ahead of time though 15:40
adamw okay, sounds like we're in favour of giving the new layout a shot? 15:40
tflink jreznik: it would be nice to minimize the changes during freeze, though 15:40
tflink yep 15:40
jreznik tflink: we still have some time before freeze 15:40
tflink jreznik: true, but the criteria wording seem to get the most active workout during freeze 15:41
jreznik also true 15:41
adamw welp, everyone take a look at it. 15:41
* jreznik will take a more closer look 15:42
adamw #agreed general agreement to give the new criteria a shot for Alpha 15:42
jreznik but overally - I'm in favor of the new layout 15:42
tflink adamw: I dunno, the idea of burning someone at the stake if there are mistakes is kind of tempting ... :-P 15:42
jreznik and I really like that diff section against alpha 15:42
adamw grr 15:42
adamw jreznik: thanks 15:44
adamw okay, anything else on criteria before moving on? 15:44
* jreznik has nothing to add right now 15:45
adamw #topic Test Days 15:46
adamw so, we more or less got the KDE test day off, though it was a bit chaotic 15:46
adamw and we had to use F18+KDE 4.10 images, not F19 images 15:46
adamw any thoughts on the kde test day martix? 15:47
Martix some people managed to upgrade to F19 15:47
Martix adamw: we need upstream announcement on kde.org next time 15:47
adamw yeah, it's good to get wider press for the big test days 15:47
adamw though actually if it's going to be a gong show like the kde one maybe not :) 15:48
jreznik Martix: at least it was on planetkde.org 15:48
Martix I asked pkovar to push some annoucements on gnome.org and worldofgnome.org for next Test Day 15:48
adamw i usually poke phoronix and a few other general news sources as well 15:48
jreznik for the freebsd kernel test day? 15:48
Martix I poke Phoronix on every Test Day I organize 15:48
adamw cool 15:49
Martix jreznik: except that, of course :-D 15:49
tflink jreznik: ooh, was that an accepted feature? 15:49
jreznik tflink: FeatureAcceptedJoke - my new category :) 15:49
Martix tflink: it's going to be reproposed in future 15:50
Martix as a real feature! 15:50
Martix waiting for Debian's kfreebsd move and ArchBSD, then pull systemd changes to upstream (Fedora) 15:51
Martix back to Gnome 15:51
adamw good grief. 15:51
adamw so i think i need to sync up with the gnome team today and have a fallback plan if we can't get working images 15:51
adamw but we'll hope to have images working tomorrow 15:52
adamw gnome itself seems pretty solid to me 15:52
Martix adamw: please use this ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/339 15:52
adamw fallback plan might be to build f18-based images if feasible, or else to delay 15:52
adamw will do 15:52
adamw but i'll chat in irc first, it's faster 15:52
Martix ok 15:52
jreznik for the next time - we should plan these big test days a little bit later - not right after branch 15:52
Martix jreznik: Gnome explicitly asked for TD before their final release 15:53
Martix close to upstream philosophy :-) 15:54
jreznik Martix: I'm not saying too late, but later after branch to have some buffer to make sure it will compose 15:54
jreznik and history says - it takes some time every release 15:54
adamw jreznik: we're somewhat out of sync with both gnome and kde cycles after than f18 delay 15:54
adamw that's the problem 15:54
Martix jreznik: yeah, I was expecting some problems 15:54
Martix adamw: +1 15:54
jreznik adamw: even the question is, if we can get in sync anymore - with the way how fesco wants to schedule releases... 15:55
adamw not my problem! 15:55
adamw looks like hard freeze for 3.8 is in a week, so we really didn't have much flexibility in scheduling the test day. 15:55
Martix jreznik: I'd like to see F20 final on 10th years anniversary 15:55
jreznik adamw: fair enough - just saying, we know we usually hit problems right after branch... 15:56
adamw heh. 15:56
jreznik does not make sense to change it now 15:56
adamw #action adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by wednesday 15:57
jreznik thanks adamw 15:57
adamw #topic Open floor 15:57
adamw anything for open floor, folks? 15:57
tflink not sure if it's hugeley important but I'm going to be mostly AFK this week at the pycon sprints 15:58
adamw tflink: roger 16:02
adamw #info tflink will be AFK much of the time at pycon this week 16:02
adamw anything else? 16:03
jreznik nothing from me 16:04
adamw alrightly 16:05
adamw thanks for coming everyone! 16:05
adamw same time same place next week, if f19 hasn't consumed us all 16:05
tflink RUN AWAY!!!! 16:05
tflink  :) 16:05
* kparal hides 16:06
kparal adamw: endmeeting? 16:12
adamw doh 16:12
adamw #endmeeting 16:12

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