QA/Meetings/20130318

Attendees

• adamw (98)
• jreznik (40)
• Martix (38)
• kparal (22)
• tflink (18)
• zodbot (3)
• satellit_e (3)
• spoore (1)
• nirik (1)
• mkrizek (1)
• jskladan (1)
• pschindl (1)

Agenda

• Previous meeting follow-up
• Fedora 19 Alpha status
• Criteria re-design
• Test Days
• Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

• jreznik to ink in the proposed image schedule, and add a Test Day entry - this was done: QA, release engineering

Fedora 19 Alpha status

• We discussed the current state of F19 test images: potential issues in image compose, dracut, selinux and gnome-initial-setup, adamw and anaconda team investigating
• We noted that both TC1 and GNOME Test Day images were required soon

Criteria re-design

• There was general agreement to give adamw's revised Alpha and Beta criteria a try for F19

Test Days

• 2013-03-21 GNOME Test Day: we agreed to look at a fallback plan of building GNOME 3.8 images on Fedora 18 if workable Fedora 19 images were not possible

Open floor

• tflink would be AFK at Pycon much of the week

Action items

• adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state
• adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by Wednesday

IRC Log

adamw	#startmeeting Fedora QA meeting	15:01
zodbot	Meeting started Mon Mar 18 15:01:27 2013 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.	15:01
zodbot	Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.	15:01
adamw	#meetingname fedora-qa	15:01
zodbot	The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa'	15:01
adamw	#topic roll call	15:01
adamw	roll up, roll up, for the qa meeting	15:01
* jreznik is still here, from meeting, to meeting		15:01
* tflink is here		15:01
* mkrizek is here		15:02
* pschindl is here		15:02
* spoore is lurking		15:03
* nirik is lurking as well		15:03
* kparal joins		15:03
adamw	morning everyone	15:04
* adamw wonders what happened to our favourite viking lately		15:04
adamw	longboat got raided?	15:04
tflink	pillaging, most likely :-D	15:04
* Martix is here		15:05
adamw	hehe	15:06
Martix	adamw: lol	15:06
adamw	okey dokey	15:06
adamw	#topic previous meeting follow-up	15:06
adamw	so just one item this week	15:06
adamw	"jreznik to ink in the proposed image schedule, and add a Test Day entry"	15:06
* satellit_e joins late -listening		15:06
jreznik	Test Day entry is added, schedule updated	15:07
jreznik	#link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/f-19-quality-tasks.html	15:07
jreznik	#link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-19/f-19-releng-tasks.html	15:07
jreznik	ambassadors also asked for Test Days Reminder	15:07
jreznik	(week before test days starts)	15:07
adamw	thanks!	15:08
adamw	#info this was done, see links above	15:08
jreznik	please review the changes, in schedule, everything depends on everything and especially cutting out release candidates was... like rewriting it from scratch :)	15:08
adamw	we'll make sure it just says 'vacation' for six months	15:08
* jreznik is going to update schedule with vacations :)		15:09
adamw	#topic Fedora 19 Alpha status	15:09
adamw	so...we were supposed to do RATS last week, that didn't happen because the tree's still too ropey	15:09
adamw	i went to build a test image and could not get one that worked	15:09
adamw	there have been some fixes for various things since friday and i'll keep bashing, but f19 tree doesn't appear to be in particularly great shape right now	15:10
jreznik	do you know what everything is broken and makes it impossible to compose it?	15:10
kparal	I'm trying to build an image too. no success	15:10
adamw	anyone else have experience trying to build images?	15:10
kparal	but still struggling	15:10
adamw	kparal: cool	15:10
adamw	so I think just about everything on the blocker list is affecting us - http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/19/alpha/buglist	15:10
* satellit_e mine with live cd tools have not worked		15:10
* tflink hasn't tried yet		15:10
jreznik	btw first TC is planned for tmrw, maybe asking for it officialy (as it's TC) could lead to more push on fixing stuff	15:11
adamw	well, I know harald and bcl are already kinda focused on it	15:12
adamw	actually let's see if we can pull them in	15:12
jreznik	should we go through the list one by one? yes, it will be mini blocker review... :(	15:13
tflink	jreznik: we said no blocker reviews during QA meetings for 19	15:14
tflink	it makes them harder to keep track of and makes the QA meetings longer	15:14
adamw	hmm, looks like they're not around	15:14
adamw	right, we'll do the blocker review proper on wednesday	15:14
adamw	i just wanted to note it as it hits a lot of the issues affecting composes	15:15
Martix	it also affects Gnome Test Day	15:15
jreznik	tflink: I know, we said no - but we should move with composes...	15:15
Martix	Wednesday is late	15:15
adamw	that's next in the schedule.	15:15
adamw	er, later in the schedule.	15:15
adamw	agenda.	15:15
Martix	I know	15:15
adamw	MEETING LIST THINGY	15:15
Martix	my point is, we need to talk to them today	15:16
adamw	yes	15:16
adamw	i'll do that	15:16
Martix	here or elsewhere :-)	15:16
Martix	ok	15:16
adamw	kparal: so where are you stuck on image compose?	15:16
kparal	adamw: livecd-creator throws lots of errors when you run it on F18. I talked to bcl and he told me I have to use the same Fedora release, otherwise the result is not guaranteed	15:17
adamw	kparal: right, that's how i've always done it	15:17
kparal	so I installed F19 today, but I wasted an hour fighting with NFS, it seems to be completely broken	15:17
adamw	i actually just set up a VM to use for image builds	15:17
kparal	so now I'll be running livecd-creator on F19	15:18
tflink	yeah, I usually have VMs set up for the smoke builds	15:18
adamw	okay, so you don't have any further data on borkage issues	15:18
kparal	no, sorry	15:18
adamw	okay	15:18
kparal	but we know that gdm is broken, even if we succeed in composing it	15:18
adamw	i guess i'm in pole position on that one	15:18
adamw	that seems to have been reported by multiple people for fresh images/installs, yeah	15:19
adamw	my 'live' f19 system doesn't have gdm problems, though...	15:19
adamw	so i guess i'll be working on this this week!	15:19
adamw	does anyone else have useful data on the f19 state that hasn't been brought up yet?	15:19
kparal	I used F18 anaconda to install F19 gnome, and it is broken. I even updated to latest Rawhide, still broken	15:20
kparal	(gdm)	15:20
kparal	but I haven't reported it yet, or looked for it	15:20
kparal	Martix: have you succeeded in finding the gdm bug?	15:20
* satellit_e I got lucky with KDE test day instructions and got f20 KDE....?		15:20
Martix	kparal: that was clutter	15:21
Martix	its already fixed	15:21
adamw	Martix: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=917246 doesn't seem to have that info	15:21
adamw	is there another bug?	15:22
kparal	Martix: is it already pushed to F19?	15:22
Martix	that another bug	15:22
Martix	kparal: yes, I verified it on Friday on my F19 machine	15:22
kparal	so we have multiple bugs here	15:23
Martix	kparal: try disable gnome-initial-setup or remove it as in #6 comment	15:23
jreznik	Martix: isn't the clutter one related to wayland support?	15:23
Martix	jreznik: it was	15:23
Martix	jreznik: well, on Friday I have distro-synced form Rawhide (F20) to F19 and verified that GDM/Gnome works	15:24
Martix	#917246 seems to be related to gnome-initial-setup	15:25
adamw	Martix: what was the bug # for the other one?	15:25
Martix	adamw: no #, I wasn't able to reproduce it on synced F19	15:26
jreznik	I'd say it was combination of all issues and people were/are hitting all of them/or part of them	15:26
adamw	okay.	15:26
jreznik	the wayland one was discussed on ml	15:26
Martix	kparal: try to remove gnome-initial-setup and reboot	15:27
adamw	#action adamw to work with developers on getting F19 images to bootable state	15:27
kparal	Martix: thanks, I will, just not right now	15:28
Martix	kparal: ok, if it'll work, we have at least workaround	15:28
* jreznik will try to help adamw		15:28
Martix	but also we lose one critical path Gnome compent for Test Day	15:29
jreznik	so do we want to request TC tmrw? to raise it "officially"?	15:29
adamw	#info we have possible issues in image compose, dracut, selinux and gnome-initial-setup	15:29
adamw	jreznik: wait and see. i don't think we need to play that kind of game and i'd rather not waste releng's time unless it's really necessary.	15:29
adamw	#info TC1 supposed to be tomorrow, GNOME test day on Thursday: we need images	15:30
jreznik	ok	15:31
* jskladan hates the snow calamity...		15:31
kparal	jskladan: welcome the spring	15:31
tflink	snow calamity?	15:31
Martix	same here	15:31
kparal	it's a snow blizzard out here :)	15:32
tflink	it's I see palm trees outside - no snow	15:32
Martix	tflink: that was 14 days ago	15:32
adamw	#topic criteria re-design	15:32
adamw	so sorry to throw this on the list again, but I did put the beta draft out this week	15:33
adamw	and i figure now is a good time for an go/no-go on whether to use the rewritten criteria for F19	15:33
adamw	we've only done one blocker review so far with like two bugs in it, but if we want to switch we should probably do it before the next review meeting and tc1	15:33
tflink	yeah, that makes sense	15:34
* jreznik likes generally likes it - see my latest comment, not sure about contingency part wording		15:34
jreznik	and if we go with it now, it does not mean it will be set in stone	15:34
jreznik	let's see how it works earlier than later	15:35
kparal	adamw: are you referring to the new format or the new wording right now?	15:35
adamw	kparal: as a practical matter, both, though we can tweak the layout as we go along	15:35
adamw	note i went with the header style from your proposals that most people liked	15:35
kparal	I like the new layout and I haven't studied the wording changes in much detail	15:35
adamw	did people get a chance to look over the beta partitioning stuff? that's probably the most significant practical wording change	15:36
adamw	all the other wording means pretty much what it did before, there's no big _practical_ change	15:36
* jreznik was more looking on the layout more than wording too		15:36
adamw	well review on the wording is welcome to catch anywhere i messed up :)	15:37
kparal	that means we all trust adamw and will burn him at a stake later, if we discover a problem	15:37
tflink	kparal: if you ever wondered why people don't usually volunteer to submit criteria revisions ...	15:38
jreznik	it's hard to review it "theoretically" - would be better to see it in action - especially when the revamp is quite big	15:39
adamw	jreznik: sure, it's always nice to catch whatever you can ahead of time though	15:40
adamw	okay, sounds like we're in favour of giving the new layout a shot?	15:40
tflink	jreznik: it would be nice to minimize the changes during freeze, though	15:40
tflink	yep	15:40
jreznik	tflink: we still have some time before freeze	15:40
tflink	jreznik: true, but the criteria wording seem to get the most active workout during freeze	15:41
jreznik	also true	15:41
adamw	welp, everyone take a look at it.	15:41
* jreznik will take a more closer look		15:42
adamw	#agreed general agreement to give the new criteria a shot for Alpha	15:42
jreznik	but overally - I'm in favor of the new layout	15:42
tflink	adamw: I dunno, the idea of burning someone at the stake if there are mistakes is kind of tempting ... :-P	15:42
jreznik	and I really like that diff section against alpha	15:42
adamw	grr	15:42
adamw	jreznik: thanks	15:44
adamw	okay, anything else on criteria before moving on?	15:44
* jreznik has nothing to add right now		15:45
adamw	#topic Test Days	15:46
adamw	so, we more or less got the KDE test day off, though it was a bit chaotic	15:46
adamw	and we had to use F18+KDE 4.10 images, not F19 images	15:46
adamw	any thoughts on the kde test day martix?	15:47
Martix	some people managed to upgrade to F19	15:47
Martix	adamw: we need upstream announcement on kde.org next time	15:47
adamw	yeah, it's good to get wider press for the big test days	15:47
adamw	though actually if it's going to be a gong show like the kde one maybe not :)	15:48
jreznik	Martix: at least it was on planetkde.org	15:48
Martix	I asked pkovar to push some annoucements on gnome.org and worldofgnome.org for next Test Day	15:48
adamw	i usually poke phoronix and a few other general news sources as well	15:48
jreznik	for the freebsd kernel test day?	15:48
Martix	I poke Phoronix on every Test Day I organize	15:48
adamw	cool	15:49
Martix	jreznik: except that, of course :-D	15:49
tflink	jreznik: ooh, was that an accepted feature?	15:49
jreznik	tflink: FeatureAcceptedJoke - my new category :)	15:49
Martix	tflink: it's going to be reproposed in future	15:50
Martix	as a real feature!	15:50
Martix	waiting for Debian's kfreebsd move and ArchBSD, then pull systemd changes to upstream (Fedora)	15:51
Martix	back to Gnome	15:51
adamw	good grief.	15:51
adamw	so i think i need to sync up with the gnome team today and have a fallback plan if we can't get working images	15:51
adamw	but we'll hope to have images working tomorrow	15:52
adamw	gnome itself seems pretty solid to me	15:52
Martix	adamw: please use this ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/339	15:52
adamw	fallback plan might be to build f18-based images if feasible, or else to delay	15:52
adamw	will do	15:52
adamw	but i'll chat in irc first, it's faster	15:52
Martix	ok	15:52
jreznik	for the next time - we should plan these big test days a little bit later - not right after branch	15:52
Martix	jreznik: Gnome explicitly asked for TD before their final release	15:53
Martix	close to upstream philosophy :-)	15:54
jreznik	Martix: I'm not saying too late, but later after branch to have some buffer to make sure it will compose	15:54
jreznik	and history says - it takes some time every release	15:54
adamw	jreznik: we're somewhat out of sync with both gnome and kde cycles after than f18 delay	15:54
adamw	that's the problem	15:54
Martix	jreznik: yeah, I was expecting some problems	15:54
Martix	adamw: +1	15:54
jreznik	adamw: even the question is, if we can get in sync anymore - with the way how fesco wants to schedule releases...	15:55
adamw	not my problem!	15:55
adamw	looks like hard freeze for 3.8 is in a week, so we really didn't have much flexibility in scheduling the test day.	15:55
Martix	jreznik: I'd like to see F20 final on 10th years anniversary	15:55
jreznik	adamw: fair enough - just saying, we know we usually hit problems right after branch...	15:56
adamw	heh.	15:56
jreznik	does not make sense to change it now	15:56
adamw	#action adamw to work out a fallback plan with desktop team if we cannot get working images by wednesday	15:57
jreznik	thanks adamw	15:57
adamw	#topic Open floor	15:57
adamw	anything for open floor, folks?	15:57
tflink	not sure if it's hugeley important but I'm going to be mostly AFK this week at the pycon sprints	15:58
adamw	tflink: roger	16:02
adamw	#info tflink will be AFK much of the time at pycon this week	16:02
adamw	anything else?	16:03
jreznik	nothing from me	16:04
adamw	alrightly	16:05
adamw	thanks for coming everyone!	16:05
adamw	same time same place next week, if f19 hasn't consumed us all	16:05
tflink	RUN AWAY!!!!	16:05
tflink	:)	16:05
* kparal hides		16:06
kparal	adamw: endmeeting?	16:12
adamw	doh	16:12
adamw	#endmeeting	16:12

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