ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-23

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Contents

Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 23-APR-07

Testing Status

  • woods:
  • It's good, although it's regressed a teeny bit since apr. 20 - mostly just some useless messages in %post from one of the packages
  • the major install problem with the RC tree is doing ftp/http installs
  • kickstarts work fine (which is how we do our testing)
  • people doing manual testing report that doing one by hand doesn't work
  • doing some additional ftp/http installs by hand
  • there's a couple of mysteriously crashed installs that seem to each have a mdraid install previous to them
  • jeremy:
  • actually, for tree existence first -- we've currently got an rc of the tree and I'm almost done creating the set of live images (i386, i386 kde and x86_64)
  • have installs going via ftp and http started from pxe :-/
  • ftp/http problem is booted off of media, not with just pxe
  • notting:
  • anaconda isn't handling ftp errors very well1, but the installer is starting

e1000 bug

  • davej switched to linus' latest tree that reverted that specific patch

The Freeze Question

  • jwb: people keep asking if things are frozen--what exactly _should_ we be telling people?
  • jeremy:
  • the freeze is more at how the buildsystem does things than cvs itself
  • having people concentrate on bugfixing leading up to the final freeze (+ branch) is the right answer
  • branching is good and bad... it lets people keep doing stuff, but it distracts from spending time on polishing the release and it also leads to a need for doubel commits for a while
  • wwoods: everything is frozen. Only updates that fix actual bugs (like stuff that people have filed in bugzilla) should go in

Tagging & Release Building

  • jeremy:
  • I'm keeping a list of things we might want if we do another test4 respin at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4
  • having a solid test4 is sorely needed and if we don't take the time now, we'll pay when it comes to the final release
  • notting: probably should tag the totem package hadess sent

Perl Multilib

  • perl multilib problem is still breaking deps
  • breaking out libperl is the solution and make sure perl depends on libperl
  • may slip schedule a little, but we will do best we can and should not be more than a few days (less than a week)
  • warren will make the perl changes

Release Status

  • make the perl changes today, tomorrow we have a new rawhide and a new RC tree
  • blocker type issues are: net installs from media, broken deps due to perl
  • need a day or two to test the Test4 RC
  • hope to start the push process late tomorrow or wednesday, available either later in the day thursday (craziness!) or friday
  • moving pygobject2 to test4
  • http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4

Icon/theme changes

  • jeremy: decision went more like "is echo ready?" "nope, don't think so." "let's go back to bluecurve then. "but that's boring. let's go to something closer to the upstream default. mist it is!"
  • echo is still included. just not default
  • gnome is the upstream default... mist is the same icons but different palette
  • notting: (Q): how is a icon theme change not an interface change post-freeze? :)
  • jeremy: (A): we explicitly said from the beginning that if coverage wasn't sufficient, we'd change.

IRC Transcript

jeremyso, release team meeting time<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
jeremywho's here?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* wwoods here!<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* jwb here<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
wwoodshaven't heard from f13 today.. maybe just because he's on the west siieeeede?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
yungjenlinme ?<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* notting is here<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
yungjenlinyungjenlin here!<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
* jwb really needs to learn how to read a fscking clock<a href="#t13:07" class="time">13:07</a>
warrenjeremy, eh?  it wasn't 2pm?<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jeremypoelcat: ping?<a href="#t13:08" class="time">13:08</a>
jwbwarren, no<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
wwoodsI have 1pm on my calendar, although it's possible I'm wrong<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremywarren: I just went back to look at the mail and it said 1 pm<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremyand based on the log, we started at 1:03 pm last week<a href="#t13:09" class="time">13:09</a>
jeremyso, I think the big thing is test4 status<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
jeremywwoods: how's testing looking?<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsokay, so where do we start.. test4 status?<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
wwoodsyeah<a href="#t13:10" class="time">13:10</a>
warrenAre we respinning test4 again?<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
wwoodsIt's good, although it's regressed a teeny bit since apr. 20 - mostly just some useless messages in %post from one of the packages<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
jeremyactually, for tree existence first --  we've currently got an rc of the tree and I'm almost done creating the set of live images (i386, i386 kde and x86_64)<a href="#t13:11" class="time">13:11</a>
jeremywarren: depends on how things look<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoodsthe major install problem with the RC tree is doing ftp/http installs<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoodskickstarts work fine (which is how we do our testing)<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremyseems ... important to have working<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoodsbut people doing manual testing report that doing one by hand doesn't work<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
wwoodsIIRC clumens had a fix already?<a href="#t13:12" class="time">13:12</a>
jeremyhe does have a fix, but I wasn't 100% certain that we were triggering that case<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
wwoodshow can we be sure? want me to do a couple ftp/http installs by hand?<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jeremyI'm not quite clear on what the failure case is, though... I now have installs going via ftp and http started from pxe :-/<a href="#t13:13" class="time">13:13</a>
jeremywwoods: yeah, would be good to get it narrowed down<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsI'll see what I can do<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
nottingrawhide 'good enough' for testing that?<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsrawhide's fine<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jeremynotting: should be<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
jeremymaybe something about either boot.iso or starting from the rescue cd that causes it to blow up?<a href="#t13:14" class="time">13:14</a>
wwoodsjeremy: oh wait - the reports involved starting from media? interesting<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jeremywwoods: I don't know if they did or not.  I'm just going for straws since it looks like it's working for me in the installs I just started<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
jeremyalso, have we tried media and hard drive installs?<a href="#t13:15" class="time">13:15</a>
wwoodsI'm going to be doing media installs today, now that we have a good RC tree<a href="#t13:16" class="time">13:16</a>
wwoodserr good RC images<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
jeremyk<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoodsif anyone wants to split the load with me (i.e. take an arch) lemme knwo<a href="#t13:17" class="time">13:17</a>
wwoodsthe doom-o-meter is running at around 15%, mostly because Everything installs take so damn long<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsthe watchdog reboots them before they finish<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
jeremysweet!<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
* notting fires off ftp<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
* jwb really wants to see the doom-o-meter<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
jeremyftp/http problem is booted off of media, not with just pxe<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsthere's a couple of mysteriously crashed installs that seem to each have a mdraid install previous to them<a href="#t13:18" class="time">13:18</a>
wwoodsjwb: unfortunately I haven't actually created it yet<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwbget on it<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jwb;)<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
nottingwow<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsI gotta find an art person to make me a nice fuel gauge that goes from [thumbs up] to [skull] <a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
nottinganaconda isn't handling ftp errors very weel<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
nottingbut the installer is starting<a href="#t13:19" class="time">13:19</a>
jeremyI think the "booted off of cd, doing net install" case is probably pretty important to have working with test4 :-/<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
wwoodsindeed<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
warrenjeremy, where is the RC tree?<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
nottingjeremy: this is with boot.iso,not d1<a href="#t13:21" class="time">13:21</a>
* wwoods doing x86_64 boot.iso <a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
poelcatjeremy: i'm here... sorry, at another meeting<a href="#t13:22" class="time">13:22</a>
nottingjeremy: ftp *seems* to be working. checking deps now<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsthat's weird - I thought http usually fetched minstg2.img<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
wwoodsanyway, my http install seems OK so far<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
jeremywwoods: depends on how much memory you have<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
nottingalthough it claims that it couldn't find comps for extras<a href="#t13:23" class="time">13:23</a>
* jwb blames notting<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwboh wait...<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwb;0<a href="#t13:24" class="time">13:24</a>
jwbso while everyone is off installing... is there anything else to discuss?<a href="#t13:25" class="time">13:25</a>
jeremyI don't think so<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwbdavej, for the e1000 bug... did you just switch to linus' latest tree that reverted that specific patch?<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodsif this turns out to be broken we might have to respin for it<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwbdavej, or is rawhide still at fc6 e1000?<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
wwoodswhich would give us an opportunity to pull in some other fixes<a href="#t13:26" class="time">13:26</a>
jwbjeremy, wwoods: freeze question...<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jeremyjwb: shoot<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwbpeople keep asking if things are frozen.  i lie and tell them yes in the hopes that it provides a bit more stability for Everything<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jwbwhat exactly _should_ we be telling people?<a href="#t13:27" class="time">13:27</a>
jeremyjwb: probably just that<a href="#t13:28" class="time">13:28</a>
jwbjeremy, then tell rdieter_away to stop catching me in my lies! ;)<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jeremyjwb: heh<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbseriously though... once CVS is merged, extras _will_ be frozen, yes?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
warrenjwb, I haven't seen e1000 lockups in a while now.  You?<a href="#t13:29" class="time">13:29</a>
jwbwarren, nope.  i'm just wondering which fix davej did<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jeremyjwb: the freeze is more at how the buildsystem does things than cvs itself<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jwbjeremy, yes sorry.  s/CVS/koji<a href="#t13:30" class="time">13:30</a>
jeremyjwb: that's part of the whole discussion we had last week about when to branch also<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
* jwb will have to go re-read that<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jeremyright now, though, having people concentrate on bugfixing leading up to the final freeze (+ branch) is the right answer<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbsummary?<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
jwbk<a href="#t13:32" class="time">13:32</a>
wwoodsYes, everything is frozen. Only updates that fix actual bugs (like stuff that people have filed in bugzilla) should go in<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremycvs branching is good and bad... it lets people keep doing stuff, but it distracts from spending time on polishing the release and it also leads to a need for doubel commits for a while<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremythat's the quick summary<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
wwoodsI think we're also allowing people to do rebuilds post-merge to pull new Extras builddeps?<a href="#t13:33" class="time">13:33</a>
jeremywwoods: there may be some case by case there, but generally<a href="#t13:34" class="time">13:34</a>
jwbwwoods, like the KDE stuff?<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
nottingftp seems t obe working<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jwbthat seems counter-intuitive<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
poelcatwhen do  we need a definitive decision on this topic?  we didn't reach one last time<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
poelcat<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-19#head-544d2f3e7c054264a2e926078890461ac25b1253">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/Meetings/2007-apr-19#head-544d2f3e7c054264a2e926078890461ac25b1253</a><a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
jeremynotting: it sounds like the problem is with booting from a rescue cd or the dvd<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
* notting tries rescuecd<a href="#t13:35" class="time">13:35</a>
davejjwb: switched to linus'<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
jwbdavej, great!<a href="#t13:36" class="time">13:36</a>
jeremyI'm keeping a list of things we might want if we do another test4 respin at <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4</a><a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
nottingjeremy: probably should tag the totem package hadess sent<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremynotting: it's in my list<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremyI'm holding off on tagging anything until we know we're respinning<a href="#t13:37" class="time">13:37</a>
jeremyalthough the list is looking kind of compelling at this point....<a href="#t13:39" class="time">13:39</a>
nottingthat was odd<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jeremyanyone have anything else?<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
nottingftp failed the first time, and then tried to retrieve it, and errored<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
nottingLOOP_SET_FD failed: -EBUSYZ<a href="#t13:40" class="time">13:40</a>
jeremynotting: I think that was the way it manifested<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
nottingso yeah. is broke.<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
jeremydo we want to vote on the importance of having it fixed for test4?<a href="#t13:41" class="time">13:41</a>
warrenwhat is the scope of it?<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
warrenfails under what specific circumstances<a href="#t13:42" class="time">13:42</a>
jeremyftp/http installs started from the rescuecd or the dvd will fail<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
wwoodsstarting from boot.iso will work OK<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenbut boot.iso and disc1 are fine?<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
wwoodsdisc1 would probably also fail, I think<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jeremywarren: there is no disc1, just the dvd<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenoh<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
warrenjeremy, does that include if the user adds additional repos during anaconda?  (is that still possible?)<a href="#t13:43" class="time">13:43</a>
jeremywarren: no (and yes, still possible.  should even be fixed as of sometime the middle of last week)<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
warrenjeremy, a respin is likely even without fixing this before test4?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
nottingsurely if we respin we slip?<a href="#t13:44" class="time">13:44</a>
jeremynotting: or we only give the mirrors 24 hours to sync like we've been doing :/<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
wwoodsif we respin, we will probably slip, but I'm just guessing (f13 would know better than I do)<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
jeremyit also depends on how quickly we can get ahold of f13<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
nottingi hear they have personal communication devices that can be used to notify people<a href="#t13:45" class="time">13:45</a>
warrennotting, comm badges?<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jeremynotting: yes, but that doesn't help if he's not near the series of tubes :)<a href="#t13:46" class="time">13:46</a>
jeremypersonally, I think that having a solid test4 is sorely needed and if we don't take the time now, we'll pay when it comes to the final release<a href="#t13:47" class="time">13:47</a>
warren+1 (for partially selfish reasons of wanting much fewer bitching about the pidgin epoch)<a href="#t13:48" class="time">13:48</a>
nottingcan we get libperl in a respin?<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
warrennotting, did we decide what to do about that?<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
warrensplit out perl-libs?<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jwbjeremy, agreed<a href="#t13:49" class="time">13:49</a>
jeremynotting: it's not built... but it could probably be done pretty quickly<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
wwoodshow safe is that change? right now we've got a tree that's very close to releasable<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
nottingwell, there is 'get a solid test 4', but also 'SHIP ALREADY, DAMMIT' :)<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
wwoodsif we throw in some deeper changes now I worry we'll slip even more<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
warrenthe perl multilib problem is still breaking deps<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
jeremywwoods: if we make sure perl depends on libperl, then it should be pretty safe<a href="#t13:50" class="time">13:50</a>
nottinghow would perl *not* depend on libperl?<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
jeremynotting: nfi.  I'm just saying we have to ensure that it does<a href="#t13:51" class="time">13:51</a>
XulChrisdid someone say multilib problem?<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
XulChrispygame needs blacklisted or something<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
XulChrisand gnumeric i think<a href="#t13:53" class="time">13:53</a>
warrenXulChris, I would prefer that solution for pidgin too, but it was rejected.<a href="#t13:54" class="time">13:54</a>
* jeremy doesn't think we're actually making any progress on consensus here...<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
wwoods"the perl multilib problem is still breaking deps" - is breaking out libperl the solution, then?<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
nottingyes<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
wwoodsah<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
jwbjeremy, i say fix these things and slip<a href="#t13:55" class="time">13:55</a>
nottingthen, the question is how much slip?<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jwba week<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jeremynotting: as little as we can is always my prefernce<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
nottingi don't see anything a-week-worthy<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
wwoodsif make the changes today, tomorrow we have a new rawhide and a new RC tree<a href="#t13:56" class="time">13:56</a>
jeremywe have fixes in hand for most of them, so we should be able to get a new RC tree by end of day<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
nottingso, our *blocker*-type issues are: net installs from media, broken deps due to perl<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
nottingright?<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
wwoodsso we need a day or two to test the RC<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
jeremynotting: that's what I know of<a href="#t13:57" class="time">13:57</a>
wwoodsbarring new problems we'd have a greenlit RC by thursday. if memory serves we need a while to push to mirrors<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jeremywwoods: we can start pushing to the mirrors in parallel to testing<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jwbyou guys know better than i.  if you don't see anything worth a week, then go for it<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
wwoodsI guess if we start pushing after we get a few smoke tests in<a href="#t13:58" class="time">13:58</a>
jeremywwoods: right<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
jeremywwoods: basically, hope to start the push process late tomorrow or wednesday, available either later in the day thursday (craziness!) or friday<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
wwoodsbut I mean, RC by late tonight, smoke tests overnight. assuming those go OK, we can greenlight pushing tomorrow around noon. when would that put the release?<a href="#t13:59" class="time">13:59</a>
wwoodsgotcha<a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a>
nottingbut.... do we have a *fix* for net installs?<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
jeremynotting: yes.  even committed<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
wwoodscommitted, ok, but confirmed?<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
nottingjeremy: btw, we should move pygobject2 to test4<a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a>
jeremyokay, added to the list<a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a>
jeremyso, move forward with getting fixes and I'll try to get ahold of f13 for respin action?<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
jeremywwoods: and continue testing to make sure there's nothing else<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
nottingjeremy: surely it's respinnable with pungi<a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a>
wwoodsyeah I might try to get some last-minute fixes for the avc denials I saw.. if I can figure out how to reproduce 'em<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
wwoodsactually none of them seem to hurt much of anything, so.. maybe not<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jeremywwoods: talk to dan about htem and if he wants, we can get them<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
wwoods'kay<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
jeremyand I'll give you a link to livecds in a few<a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a>
nottingwwoods: check with stransky about the alsa ones - some of the very recent changes should have been to fix those<a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a>
wwoodsgotcha. I can't reproduce it but I can send the messages along to dan and see what he says<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
nottingWHAT?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
wwoodssame for the ppc-only console-kit one<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
nottingWE TOOK THE CEREAL NOTE OUT OF ANACONDA?????<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
wwoodscereal note?<a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a>
* notting is sad<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
jeremynotting: me too<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
rscnotting: Anaconda is something for barbecue, not for breakfast :)<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
nottingjeremy: can't you put it back?<a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a>
jeremynotting: sure.  so can you :-)<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
nottingjeremy: you have seniority on the codebase<a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a>
nottingwait<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
nottingwe switched icon themese?<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
wwoodsyeah<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jeremyyes<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
nottingis ugly<a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a>
jeremythat was the art/desktop consensus<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
wwoods"Is Echo ready?" "dunno." "ok, let's change to something completely different from the previous or following release!"<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
wwoodswait, echo's not even included anymore?<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
nottingnone of us is as stupid as all of us<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
jeremywwoods: actually, it went more like "is echo ready?" "nope, don't think so."  "let's go back to bluecurve then.  "but that's boring.  let's go to something closer to the upstream default.  mist it is!"<a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a>
nottingis mist the upstream default?<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jwbwwoods, echo is still included.  just not default<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jeremyno, gnome is the upstream default... mist is the same icons but different palette (or something like that... I talked for a while with matthias about it on friday and then promptly decided to forget it all :-)<a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a>
jeremycan someone volunteer to shepherd getting the perl changes done today?<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
davejnotting: I'm partly responsible for the cereal thing.  I saw it in a log from a user in a bz this morning and was all "wtf?". dcantrell & clumens chuckled, and then ripped it out I guess.<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
wwoodsjwb: huh. one of my testers says it's not in his list in the theme chooser<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
* jeremy looks at warren :)<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
nottingdavej: bad davej<a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a>
davejnotting: pfft, if I'm not told "in jokes" I get to spoil them.<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jwbwwoods, the overall theme isn't.  but if you customize a theme, the echo icon set is available<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremybecause there isn't an overall echo theme<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
nottingdavej: but that's been there since the first anaconda release!<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremyanyway, it sounds like we're done<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoodsright, he's saying that the echo icon set wasn't in the list<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
wwoodsit's not in my list either<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
davejnotting: wow.<a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a>
jeremywwoods: do you have echo-icon-theme installed?<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwbwwoods, it's there man<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoodsjeremy: nope, not installed<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jwbdon't make me screenshot you..<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremywwoods: that's why!<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
warrenjeremy, eh?<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
wwoodsthis is a completely default install from today's rawhide<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremywarren: want to shepherd getting the libperl change done this afternoon?<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13I'm here.<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
warrenjeremy, reluctantly, ok<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
jeremywwoods: echo-icon-theme isn't required by anything anymore so may not get installed by default now<a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a>
f13I can do a spin when ever, I just need to know what to pick up and what to sign and all that.<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
warrenf13, <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeremyKatz/F7Test4</a><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
warrenjeremy, any insight in what exactly needs moving?<a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a>
jeremywarren: rpm -ql perl |grep libperl<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
f13are any of these completed?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
warrenjeremy, specifically the part that perl-loving-multilib packages want?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremywarren: yes<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsjeremy: can we put it back in as a default/mandatory/whatever?<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremyf13: some of them; I haven't gone through t oadd evrs to the list yet<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodserr not default, but as a mandatory package<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
jeremywwoods: default maybe.  not mandatory<a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a>
wwoodsdefault in comps I mean. yeah.<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
wwoodsnot the default icon set.<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jeremystill -- default in comps, not mandatory in comps :)<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
nottinghow is a icon theme change not an interface change post-freeze? :)<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jeremynotting: we explicitly said from the beginning that if coverage wasn't sufficient, we'd change.<a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a>
jwbnotting, it's _art_ man<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
notting... to something entirely different?<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
warrenbluecurve?<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoodsI guess the art/desktop teams have the final say here, really<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
jeremynotting: no one is here for you to argue with....  why are we continuing to beat this dead horse?<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
nottingjeremy: I WANT TO SEE BLOOD AND GUTS<a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a>
wwoodsI will defer to people who are experts in Making Things Pretty<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
warrenjeremy, splitting perl looks straightfoward<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
* jwb stabs bluecurve<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
jeremywarren: yes, it does.  spot is probably around an up for helping too<a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a>
warrenjeremy, isnt this going to be an issue in RHEL5 too?<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
f13RHEl5 doesn't have a perl-devel<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
warrenoh<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
f13so there is no multilib perl to begin with<a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a>
jeremyanyway, we're done here...  let's try to get things fixed and I'll try to write up a summary shortly<a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a>

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