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Fedora Release Engineering Meeting :: Monday 2008-07-14

Spins as Features

  • Some push back from folks that think it is too much work to create a feature page
  • All spins must be proposed as features if they will be be offered at
    • Feature page can be re-used (copy/pasted from release to release as necessary)
  • Feature pages are not required for the following spins:
    • Fedora--classic dvd-install spin
    • Desktop--live spin
    • KDE--live spin


  • rolling back to the F9 gold release of livecd-creator in order to make the F9 live images--selinux bug
  • Fedora board is ack/nacking the final set of names to go to public vote. Should have a list within hours.
  • Ticket #251 (Euthanize orphans)--
    • deadline is set for 2008-07-18

IRC Transcript

-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Release Engineering - roll call 13:01
f13 ping: notting jeremy jwb warren rdieter lmacken poelcat wwoods 13:02
* poelcat here 13:02
f13 and anybody else that may be interested 13:02
* warren here 13:02
cyberspace_spide hi f13 13:03
* jwb is here 13:06
f13 notting is doing an interview, and jeremy is on PTO watching the tour 13:06
skvidal f13: he said he was en-route tothe office about 10 minutes ago 13:07
jwb PTO? 13:07
jwb tour? 13:07
f13 skvidal: ah 13:07
f13 jwb: Paid Time Off 13:08
f13 jwb: Tour de France 13:08
skvidal jwb: the tour-de-random-druggies-on-bikes 13:08
f13 heh 13:08
* smooge watch the wheels go round 13:09
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F9 spins 13:09
f13 Looks like I have to roll back to the F9 gold release of livecd-creator in order to make the F9 live images. I'll be doing that today 13:09
* nirik cheers 13:09
f13 Need to see if the games spin got fixed 13:09
* rdieter pokes in a wee bit late 13:09
f13 not much else here, so unless anybody has anything on this topic, I'll move on 13:10
f13 oh 13:10
rdieter livecd-tools bug? 13:10
f13 rdieter: apparently, something with selinux 13:10
rdieter ok 13:10
f13 THere seems to be some push back to doing Spins as Features 13:10
jwb that is in relation to f10 spins 13:11
f13 I want to make sure people here agree with doing them as features before I make any claims on behalf of releng 13:11
f13 correct, that's an F10 spins thing 13:11
jwb i agree 13:11
* jwb listens to the crickets 13:12
f13 lets put it this way, is there anybody here who does not agree that spins should be done as features? 13:12
jwb question: 13:12
jwb does that apply to _all_ spins? 13:12
rdieter features are good, what's the push-back/complaints? (too much extra work?) 13:12
f13 rdieter: essentially from what I can gather. 13:13
rdieter tough cookies, imo. 13:13
f13 jwb: IMHO it would only apply to the spins that are not done as part of the standard release, IE the ones that show up on spins.fp.o 13:13
jwb then XFCE, Games, and FEL don't have to have Feature pages 13:13
jwb oh wait 13:14
jwb i misread what you wrote 13:14
jwb sorry 13:14
jwb f13, so the spins that _don't_ need Feature pages are Desktop (gnome) and KDE? 13:15
f13 and Fedora 13:15
f13 Fedora is actually a "spin" 13:15
jwb Fedora is the livecd? 13:15
f13 no, we never said anywhere that spins are only live images IIRC 13:15
f13 it's just that other exploaded trees don't really make sense. 13:15
jwb do we generate Fedora as a non-livecd? 13:15
jwb i'm just trying to make sure we're talking about the same things 13:16
f13 'Fedora' is the only non-livecd thing we do, aside from the Everything/ tree 13:16
f13 Fedora is what shows up in pub/fedora/linux/releases/<version>/Fedora/ 13:17
jwb then that is what i was referring to as Desktop 13:17
jwb is Desktop different? 13:17
f13 desktop has durastically less software 13:18
jwb where did Desktop come from? 13:19
jwb or is _that_ the livecd? 13:19
* jwb thinks he has his spin names backwards 13:19
rdieter jwb: yes! 13:19
rdieter Desktop = live, Fedora = classic dvd-install spin 13:20
jwb ok, so i had them backwards, but net effect is all of the ones i listed are what we aren't requiring Feature pages for 13:20
jwb question #2: 13:20
jwb once a Feature page is created (e.g. for XFCE), does it have to be redone every release? 13:20
jwb if so... recycling the old Feature page should be sufficient... 13:20
rdieter redone... yes, afaict. 13:21
f13 jwb: yes, since that tells everybody involved that hey, we're doing this spin again this release 13:22
jwb ok, but just recycling the old page should work for that, yes? 13:22
f13 in theory 13:23
jwb i ask because if we point out that it's a one time thing (with tweaks if needed), then the overall burden is less and people may gripe less 13:23
f13 I thought that was pointed out :/ 13:24
jwb can't hurt to point it out again in the meeting minutes 13:24
* jwb wonders if poelcat is listening 13:24
* poelcat pulled away... back now 13:25
f13 so, Proposal: Release Engineering would very much prefer that spins are handled as release features, each spin, each release, for those spins that would be offered at spins.fp.o. (Feature page can be recycled/re-used) 13:25
f13 +1 13:25
jwb +1 13:25
rdieter +1 13:26
lmacken +1 13:26
poelcat "recycling feature pages" is kind of messy because they are targeted to a specific release 13:26
jwb poelcat, not really. the content is the important part. copy/paste should work for most things 13:26
poelcat sure... copy/paste to a new page is fine 13:26
f13 poelcat: by recycle a cut/paste is OK 13:26
poelcat yes :) 13:27
* poelcat thought you were going to change the targeted release on a given page, thus leaving a hole 13:27
f13 ok, that passes, by whatever measure we have for "pass" 13:27
nirik (thats for F10, right? the F9 spins on the schedule now are ok? ) 13:27
jwb yes 13:27
poelcat not that I want to go this direction... would "spins feature pages" be formatted differently from regular features? 13:28
f13 I'll make releng's desires known to FESCo again to see if we can't get fesco to vote on it again. 13:28
f13 poelcat: I wouldn't think so. SOme sections may be extremely easy to fill in, like the rollback section. 13:29
poelcat f13: good 13:29
poelcat do we need special milestones on the schedule specific to spins if they are tracking a given release? 13:30
poelcat IOW for F10... what special tasks related to spins need to be done by certain dates? 13:30
f13 I wouldn't think so, that's kind of why I want to use the feature system, we get all that for free 13:30
poelcat ahhh 13:30
poelcat okay 13:30
poelcat so everything has to be "pretty much done" by feature freeze? 13:30
jwb yes, with the obvious exception that we might have to bring in fixes for the spins, just like the RELEASE spins 13:31
jwb but the bulk of the content should be done 13:31
f13 and it should have been tested 13:31
f13 or be testable 13:31
jwb right. the testing part of the Feature page is pretty important :) 13:32
* jeremy is here now, btw -- so if there's anything that needed me, circle back eventually 13:33
jwb we needed anaconda to install from a git repo 13:33
* jeremy beats jwb with a stick 13:33
jwb  :) 13:33
f13 jwb: from a vendor tag in a git repo 13:34
jwb yes 13:34
f13 jeremy: do you have any objections to seeing the Spins be treated as release features, and go through the Feature process each reelase? 13:34
jeremy nope 13:34
f13 (each individual spin that we want to do that is) 13:34
f13 grat. 13:34
f13 great that is. 13:34
jeremy hopefully this would also include the spins going out at least at beta or preview time for testing as actual isos via torrent 13:34
f13 jeremy: that could definitely be arranged. 13:35
jeremy it seems to make some sense 13:35
f13 k, lets move on. 13:36
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 names 13:36
f13 Fedora board is ack/nacking the final set of names to go to public vote. Should have a list within hours. 13:37
f13 jwb: the ticket will be updated with the pre-approved names 13:37
jwb about damn time! 13:37
jwb  ;) 13:37
f13 yes :( 13:38
f13 ok, moving on... 13:39
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 Alpha 13:39
f13 er whoops 13:39
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - Orphan Purge 13:39
f13 .rel 251 13:39
zodbot f13: #251 (Euthanize orphans) - Fedora Release Engineering - Trac - 13:39
f13 warren: update on this? 13:39
warren f13: the deadline was set for Jul 18th 13:39
* nirik laughs at that summary... 13:39
warren f13: (I kept asking you last week if July 18th was good, no response, so just went ahead.) 13:40
jwb sounds like we're on track 13:40
f13 warren: sorry, I must have missed the questions. 13:40
* warren gets new list of orphans. 13:40
f13 cool, we can move on then. 13:40
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: rel-eng - F10 Alpha 13:41
f13 F10 alpha is coming up fast. 13:42
f13 we've got tickets listed for what we need to do 13:42
f13 FESCo approved our week bump of schedule 13:42
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - maintaine containment 13:44
f13 er 13:44
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - maintainer containment 13:44
jeremy main livecd was still fitting as of friday, it looks like svahl made some fixes for the kde one today 13:44
f13 casey dahlin (sadmac2) and abadger1999 have made good progress on the maintainer containment stuff 13:44
f13 in fact, pkgdb and the cvs acl scripts are done. Now it's just a matter of turning them on, seeding the 'uberpackager' group, and then scheduling the mass opening of packages 13:45
f13 we need to run this through FESCo one more time too, casey and I will be doing that this thursday 13:45
f13 any comments on that? 13:47
f13 nope. 13:49
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Rel-eng - releng2 13:49
f13 lmacken: got an update? 13:49
jwb releng2? 13:50
rdieter rel eng, the next generation 13:51
f13 a rhel5 replacement for the one machine we're using in PHX for various releease engineering tasks 13:51
f13 (like rawhide creation, bodhi, package signing, etc...) 13:51
jwb k 13:51
warren 13:51
jwb we being you :) 13:51
warren updated orphan list 13:51
jwb death 13:53
f13 no reply from luke :/ 13:54
jeremy sad face 13:54
f13 he's been working to re-deploy bodhi as a distributed app, so that i'ts not overloaded when we do things on releng2 13:54
f13 but that's required a bunch of python-fedora updates 13:54
f13 I would really like to see this done before too long so that we're not switching out the rawhide creation stuff too late in the cycle. 13:55
f13 but maybe that means bringing up releng2 and leaving releng1 for bodhi until bodhi is ready to move. I'll bring that up with lmacken and mmcgrath later. 13:55
jwb confused 13:56
jwb why is bodhi tied to rel-eng? 13:56
f13 jwb: it runs on the same system 13:56
jwb is there a reason it has to? 13:57
f13 since we require a rather beefy system, the ugprade to RHEL5 was going to be on the same hardware, so we couldn't have two releng boxes going at once. 13:57
f13 jwb: at the time, lack of hardware. 13:57
f13 we have less hardware crunch right now 13:57
jwb ok, so it's just coincidence, and not a specific bodhi<->rel-eng tie 13:57
f13 no, but releng are the principle users of bodhi (: 13:57
f13 ok, we're near time. 13:59
-!- f13 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora rel-eng - open floor 13:59
jwb sigul? 14:00
jwb how's the card thing coming 14:00
f13 still waiting on the cards to show up. I'm getting a bit nervous :/ 14:01
jwb due to the delay? if they are coming from Germany, it might take time to clear customs.. 14:02
f13 yeah, due to the delay 14:02
f13 I was never given any shipping ETA or anything 14:02
f13 alright, lets call it a meeting. thanks folks 14:05

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