[10:03] * ltinkl zaps the zappers [10:03] oh yes, OKL [10:03] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 -- Init". [10:03] we're overtime now... we can move to #fedora-bugzappers [10:03] thanks everyone! [10:03] Tata [10:03] hi all, KDE SIG Meeting about to start, who's present today? [10:03] * ltinkl raises hand[10:03] Present. [10:04] present (and hi) [10:04] * jreznik_mtg is here [10:05] first off, look over the agenda, any items to add ? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 [10:05] Some recent bugs... [10:05] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487104 [10:05] Bug 487104: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, Duplicate files with kdelibs3 [10:05] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487106[10:05] rdieter: maybe I'd like to reopen acpid bug - kded is not a solution [10:05] Bug 487106: medium, low, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, kmail crashes when text is selected in composer window [10:05] qt45 bugs, they start to emerge [10:05] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487075 [10:05] Bug 487075: medium, low, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, po2xml requires XML parser feature qt has renamed [10:07] ok, added these [10:07] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 -- (revisit) enabling desktop effects by default for F11". [10:08] let's discuss the whole enabling desktop effects by default (again). [10:08] I'm having a slight change of heart, but want to know what others think. [10:09] hmm, I'm coming to the conclusion that we shouldn't enable them by default after all [10:09] I'm still pretty nervous about having them on by default, I think feedback so far has been pretty negative. [10:09] rdieter: I changed my opinion too - I'm against it :) or we can have some first run wizard - users can choose - less efect, better speed, more effects - worst speed and maybe hanging [10:09] seeing all those recent bugs/problems ppl are reporting on various HW [10:09] So +1 to off by default in F11. [10:09] +1 off [10:10] on EEE with i915 it's unusable at all... on my other ntb with ati - again - unusable [10:10] jreznik_mtg: KPersonalizer back from the ashes? :-) [10:10] Kevin_Kofler: YES! [10:10] yay, kpersonalizer was the name [10:10] I kinda liked it tho [10:10] looks like we're pretty much in agreement. frankly, the # of folk who can experience a stable compositing experience is quite small, it seems. [10:10] great app, I'm missing it now - especially when we are talking about effects default on [10:11] Yeah, KPersonalizer needs to come back! [10:11] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 -- package split status: -akonadi, -python". [10:11] ok, next item: pkg split status. [10:12] so conclusion is default off? [10:12] jreznik_mtg: looks like it [10:12] than enabled all my -akonadi related splits, and he did some -python related ones too. I think we still have kdeadmin to do, for the latter, and one could theoretically have a PyQt-free desktop, if so desired [10:14] (oh, and I'll update kde-settings for no desktop effects, unless someone else wants to do it...) [10:14] any comment on pkg splits, or ideas for further splitting (mostly for live image size concerns)? [10:16] no ideas here. But I've had to remove amarok recently to get the size under 700 megs. So freeing ~12 megs of space would be good. [10:16] The -akonadi and -python splits aren't all that useful for the live image. [10:16] We'll want the Akonadi and Python parts anyway. [10:17] Than also split out a -googlegadgets subpackage from kdebase-workspace, omitting that from the live image can save some space, but I think the savings aren't all that much. :-( [10:18] very little imo [10:19] so we have to split more packages... because space problem with more and more dependencies is going to be bigger and bigger problem... with nearly every update there are new dependencies (whole Fedora0 [10:19] true, the -akonadi stuff was mainly so that it wasn't included in our default kde4 runtime. So average joe installing a single kde4 app wouldn't pull that in [10:19] svahl: are we shipping kdebase-workspace-wallpapers with the LiveCD? [10:20] no (hope not anyway, they're big) [10:20] no. (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList) [10:20] ok, I thought so anyway [10:21] I see we have kdeartwork on it. [10:21] This now has some wallpapers. [10:22] If we want kdeartwork on the live image, we should split out kdeartwork-wallpapers so we can omit them. [10:22] kdeartwork doesn't need to be there, imo. [10:22] Or we could drop all of kdeartwork. [10:22] yup, it contains some sounds too which I think aren't small [10:23] kdeartwork ~15mb , nuke it. [10:23] ok [10:23] We should also remove system-config-printer, we have equivalent tools within KDE now. [10:23] We only need system-config-printer-libs. [10:23] yep, -system-config-printer , +system-config-printer-kde [10:24] I'd also like to know what drags in all that gnome-python2* stuff. [10:24] but doing so means we pull in PyKDE4 [10:24] We already have PyKDE4 on the image.[10:25] [Notify] tibbs is online (irc.freenode.org). [10:26] nod, if we're committed to keeping PyQt4/PyKDE4 (and I think we probably are), that's fine. [10:26] anyone interested in following up on Kevin_Kofler's suggestion to find out what needs gnome-python2* and why? [10:26] Another annoyance is PolicyKit-gnome - we'd like PolicyKit-kde there instead. But there's stuff with hardcoded deps on PolicyKit-gnome which needs to be fixed. [10:27] I can understand PolicyKit-gnome-libs being dragged in, but not the explicit deps on PolicyKit-gnome. [10:27] Kevin_Kofler: and problem how to change to PolicyKit-Kde only [10:27] rdieter: give me some minutes [10:28] ok, task 2: PolicyKit-gnome vs PolicyKit-kde issues [10:28] jreznik_mtg: If PolicyKit-gnome is not installed, there's no problem. :-)[10:28] system-config-network and system-config-lvm are requireing gnome-python2 [10:28] For coexistence of both, there's a bug filed against dbus now. [10:28] But no fix yet. [10:29] Kevin_Kofler: it's problem - PolicyKit-gnome is usable outside Gnome, kde one not... I know, for KDE only live it's not a problem but when installed + LXDE for example... [10:29] Kevin_Kofler: do you have bz #? [10:29] svahl: omit those 2, imo. (unless someone has objection?) [10:29] For the KDE live image, we don't need to care. [10:29] rdieter: The problem is that anaconda drags those system-config tools in. [10:30] Probably also -printer, by the way. :-( [10:30] without system-config-printer gnome-python2-desktop and gnome-python2-gnomekeyring should be gone. [10:30] rdieter: not sure about s-c-lvm. This may be useful on a live image [10:30] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=484945 [10:30] Bug 484945: medium, low, ---, davidz@redhat.com, NEW, D-Bus activation needs a way to prefer one service over the other depending on the running desktop environment [10:31] just looked, gnome-python2 isn't big at all, we're not saving anything here. [10:31] Kevin_Kofler: anaconda doesn't require them [10:33] rdieter: Even all the other gnome-python2 bindings? [10:33] And the stuff they drag in? [10:33] Kevin_Kofler: good question, but without numbers speculating won't get us anywhere. [10:34] I'll pretend Kevin_Kofler is nominating himself to continue investigating the PolicyKit-related issues. :) [10:34] but I think svahl is right, sacrificing s-c-lvm here is probably undesirable [10:35] let's move on... [10:35] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 -- kde 4.2 feature status". [10:36] we'll need at least -extras and -gtkhtml2 (anaconda), -gnome (setroubleshoot, policycoreutils-gui), -canvas (some more packages).[10:36] ok, questions - PolicyKit-KDE integration, Network manager status, Koffice 2 and faster startup + Qt 45?[10:37] + promised user guide... I think lot of work... feature freeze next week... so we can drop some parts and do it in "spare" time before beta freeze [10:38] wrt koffice2, seems upstream is... luke warm to the idea. I'm starting to think we consider pushing back to f12. [10:39] "end of this year" looks scary [10:39] Well, they're also saying 2.0 would fit will with Fedora's bleeding edge character. ;-) [10:39] without their 100% blessing and support, it's a bad idea. [10:41] I would say hold off till F12. If devs dont think its ready we should pass[10:41] how's the nm-plasmoid review going? [10:42] or maybe some ko1 & ko2 mixture, krita looks good for example... [10:43] jreznik_mtg: maybe... but eww... I'd rather not go there. the good bits of ko2 would have to be *very* compelling. [10:43] or the ko1 bits really bad [10:43] I suggested shipping the KOffice 2 versions of what's available and a koffice1 similar to kdegames3. [10:44] I think koffice1 may remain useful even later, for things like Kugar which will probably never be ported. [10:44] About NM plasmoid: MathStuf updated his specfile. I think it doesn't have an official reviewer yet. [10:44] Kevin_Kofler: but nearly all ko2 apps are not done yet... missing features [10:45] Kevin_Kofler: it's assigned already [10:46] Well, then we're waiting for the reviewer to act. [10:46] I guess we'll have a discussion about whether to make it the default next week or so. [10:46] nod, let's poke 'em, and see if we can get that in rawhide asap [10:47] then we can do more testing [10:47] I'll grab the latest bits for kde-redhat/unstable [10:47] About PolicyKit, I'll file bugs for the hardcoded PolicyKit-gnome deps. [10:47] Kevin_Kofler: thx. [10:47] let's move on, got a few bugs to look at... [10:47] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-02-24 -- bugs!". [10:48] jreznik_mtg: what was your concern with acpid ? [10:48] rdieter: now we check if kded is running but I'm using LXDE with KDE apps on my EEE and so kded is running and switch isn't working...[10:49] [Notify] ltinkl went offline (irc.freenode.org). [10:49] * ltinkl_away is away: brb [10:49] seems there is no power manager in LXDE so I want to shutdown my EEE [10:49] jreznik_mtg: shrug, any better suggestions? [10:49] jreznik_mtg: But it's better than breaking PowerDevil. [10:50] We can only reopen it if you have a way to query kded for whether PowerDevil is actually running. [10:50] yes, I know - maybe I have solution - new 2 gig ram memory module for my EEE so I hope I'll be using KDE again :) [10:51] jreznik_mtg: surely, you can shutdown from lxde without having to hit the power switch? :) [10:52] well let's keep thinking about that one... next: kdelibs/kdelibs3 conflicts: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487104 [10:52] Bug 487104: medium, medium, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, Duplicate files with kdelibs3 [10:52] Most of these are fairly obvious -> kdelibs-common. [10:52] I wonder what to do with /usr/bin/preparetips. [10:52] yep. any volunteers to work on that one? [10:52] # little script to extract the text from the tips file [10:52] # and output it, so xgettext can add the tips to the po file [10:53] 1. Does this need to be in the main package, as opposed to -devel? and 2. I think this should simply be removed from one of the -devel pkgs.[10:53] And 3. do we need to ship this at all? [10:54] It looks like a tool for upstream KDE development. [10:54] What about moving it to kdelibs-devel and removing it from kdelibs3 entirely? [10:55] +1 [10:56] rdieter: Do you have time to work on this? I already have too much stuff to do at the moment. :-([10:57] sure, +TODO list [10:57] after I get done hacking akonadi [10:57] next: kmail selection: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487106 [10:57] Bug 487106: medium, low, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, kmail crashes when text is selected in composer window [10:57] Looks like qzip is overflowing some buffer. [10:58] => Qt 4.5 bug[10:58] They're creating ODF versions of the clipboard.[10:58] So they're zipping up stuff. :-/ [10:58] And qzip appears to be buggy. [10:58] Kevin_Kofler, it's already fixed in Qt-4.5 snapshot [10:59] and of course in 4.5 final [10:59] cool, cooment, and we can close -> upstream [10:59] rdieter, yes [10:59] next: poxml: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487075 [10:59] Bug 487075: medium, low, ---, than@redhat.com, NEW, po2xml requires XML parser feature qt has renamed [10:59] That's high priority because it breaks builds.[11:00] They don't handle trolltech.com URLs for XML features anymore. [11:00] This breaks compatibility. [11:00] Kevin_Kofler: I like your suggestion of fixing qt (too), but kdesdk should be updated as well. Both fixes can/should be upstreamed [11:01] Kevin_Kofler, has someone reported it to trolltech? [11:01] I don't know. [11:01] let's take that as: no. :) [11:01] I didn't, in any case.[11:02] I can do this one too, +TODO [11:03] Another bug: has anybody seen the logout window not showing up? [11:03] This happens for me on both F9 and F10. [11:03] not i [11:03] rdieter, you want to fix it qt? [11:03] than: sure, I was planning on fixing both qt and kdesdk [11:03] Looks like installing the Atelier Plasma style triggers it, but changing back to Aya or Oxygen doesn't fix it. [11:03] Kevin_Kofler: funky wierd [11:04] than: provided the fix is as simple as Kevin suggested in the bug. :) [11:05] Kevin_Kofler: maybe that style corrupts the plasma-related geometries stored in ~/.kde/share/config/plasma* ? [11:05] IIRC, I tried moving those out of the way and it didn't fix it. [11:06] Kevin_Kofler: I'll try to reproduce after meeting (with a fresh user) [11:06] oh, poelcat_ asked us to look at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467136 [11:06] Bug 467136: medium, medium, ---, ovasik@redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Compile with kdepim--iCal support is disabled--a regression from previous releases [11:06] CANTFIX/NOTABUG [11:06] Kevin_Kofler, what is exactly problem in plasma? [11:06] This needs the libkcal from KDE 3 kdepim. [11:07] than: Logout dialog invisible. [11:07] in rawhide? [11:07] to consider coming up with a kdepim3-devel compat runtime for taskjuggler. seems a lot of @rh folk use that, so I said I'd see what I could do. [11:07] with qt-4.5? [11:07] do we have bz numer?[11:08] than: No, with Qt 4.4. [11:08] There's an upstream KDE bug. [11:09] Kevin_Kofler, i cannot reproduce this problem F10-update [11:09] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=184289 [11:09] Bug 184289: normal, NOR, ---, l lunak kde org, NEW, Shutdown dialog is invisible when effects turned off [11:09] As I said: Looks like installing the Atelier Plasma style triggers it, but changing back to Aya or Oxygen doesn't fix it. [11:09] That's what triggers it, might be that style's fault somehow, it's weird in any case. [11:09] *** irc.freenode.net gives channel operator privileges to ChanServ. [11:10] ah [11:13] I'll post the irc log, unless someone else is already doing so? [11:14] we're over time anyway, so I meant to say... we should end the meeting here... :) [11:14] *** You set the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule". [11:14] thanks everyone!