[Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Join You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@251.120.broadband9.iol.cz). [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Topic The channel topic is "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Topic The topic was set by poelcat on 20.1.2009 16:15:40. [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:52] Created This channel was created on 18.1.2007 20:10:56. [Út led 20 2009] [16:54:54] Join petreu has joined this channel (n=peter@fedora/petreu). [Út led 20 2009] [16:55:37] Join gregdek has joined this channel (n=gdk@cpe-024-088-244-139.nc.res.rr.com). [Út led 20 2009] [16:55:43] Join Stalwart has joined this channel (n=stalwart@ip-10.154.Home-Lan.fastnet.lv). [Út led 20 2009] [16:58:54] Quit alexxed has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [16:58:55] Join lvillani has joined this channel (n=lvillani@kde/developer/lvillani). [Út led 20 2009] [16:59:00] Join Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Út led 20 2009] [17:03:47] Join abadger1999 has joined this channel (n=abadger1@65.78.187.8). [Út led 20 2009] [17:03:57] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Út led 20 2009] [17:04:55] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - Init". [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:01] So let's start. Who's present? [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:07] * jreznik is present [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:11] * ltinkl present [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:22] * rdieter mostly here [Út led 20 2009] [17:05:48] * SMParrish here [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:21] than? [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:40] present [Út led 20 2009] [17:06:57] Great, so I think we can start. [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:01] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - desktop effects defaults in 4.2 (ltinkl asked seli)". [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:07] First topic: desktop effects defaults in 4.2 (ltinkl asked seli). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:16] Quit chacha_chaudhry has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:18] Join gja has joined this channel (n=gja@fedora/tejas). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:31] ltinkl: So what's up? [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:32] Join JSchmitt has joined this channel (n=s4504kr@p4FDD1B11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de). [Út led 20 2009] [17:07:35] I asked Seli about the default state of desktop effects under KDE 4.2 [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:00] ltinkl: is it not disable by default? [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:08] he stated that enabling them by default is safe [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:08] Join rishi has joined this channel (n=debarshi@gnu-india/supporter/debarshi). [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:25] than: Not in (upstream) 4.2, no. [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:32] Join rahulb has joined this channel (n=rbhalera@123.236.183.101). [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:37] http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/280 [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:43] It's now enabled by default, they do a self test to detect misrendering. [Út led 20 2009] [17:08:59] It can't detect crashes though, can it? [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:02] according to him, they've had them on in SUSE 11.1 without any major problems (read bugreports) [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:31] ltinkl: hm the auto detech misrendering doesn't work well for some graphic cards [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:31] OpenSUSE indeed enabled them by default (with that self-test backported) in their 4.1 packages already. [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:48] well it can't detect crashes but there is little to do there, if the driver/x.org is crashing, then it would probably do so even without the effects turned on [Út led 20 2009] [17:09:55] i think it's safe to disable it by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:04] ltinkl: I don't think so. [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:07] I'd like to have it on by default otoh :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:15] There are quite some reports of crashes triggered by compositing. [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:44] maybe a compromise? F11+ enabled by default per upstreem, previous releases not (if for nothing else, but to avoid surprises and regressions)? [Út led 20 2009] [17:10:44] Kevin_Kofler: urls? [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:10] Search the ML archives. [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:12] rdieter: yeah I thought about this, in the spirit of enabling new stuff only for new distros [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:36] Part mcepl has left this channel. [Út led 20 2009] [17:11:47] We have to push out a kde-settings update for F9 and F10 anyway because of the wallpaper stuff. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:03] So we could disable compositing by default in that kde-settings update. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:11] I'm ok with enabled by default everywhere too... regardless, documenting it clearly/loudly... wiki, release notes, etc... is essential. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:27] maybe even wait for KDE 4.2.1 for older distros (F9/F10), and enable by default for F11 (beta testing) [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:30] Update details too. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:57] ltinkl: I think I like that, +1, it's safer anyway. [Út led 20 2009] [17:12:58] F11 has had it on by default for a while now. [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:10] )since it has 4.2 prereleases) [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:14] Join rwmjones_ has joined this channel (n=rwmjones@87.127.66.208). [Út led 20 2009] [17:13:40] anybody else's opinion? than, jreznik [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:07] * than is not happy to have desktop effect by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:17] it's ok for me [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:21] I don't see the usefulness of most of those effects. [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:26] gahh. calander requests are crashing kmail again [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:28] Animations slowing you down everywhere. :-( [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:43] that is ok Kevin, you are not an "average" user :p [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:56] And some can't even be disabled, for example the panel autohide animation is hardcoded, enable panel autohide and desktop effects and you get the animation forced on you. [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:57] I would prefer them to be off by default. Its just eye candy that consumes resources [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:59] we really have to keep this in mind [Út led 20 2009] [17:14:59] desktop effects dont work right on any of my machines [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:00] actually I like desktop effects [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:08] some are really usefull [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:15] I like especially cover switch [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:17] Quit JSchmitt has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:28] * rdieter likes the new effects "animiation speed" option in systemsettings [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:35] it's not like our needs matter, think more in context of the users, we are not regular users [Út led 20 2009] [17:15:37] so I'm for default on for F11+, F9&F10 off [Út led 20 2009] [17:16:16] jreznik: i honestly dont think they are stable enough to be on by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:17:37] dgilmore: it looks stable for me and really it's much more better and stable than first releases of compiz [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:08] Quit che_ has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:37] runs stable and smoothly here as well [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:50] it doesn't me it will work for all users with different hardware [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:59] Join fab has joined this channel (n=bellet@bellet.info). [Út led 20 2009] [17:18:59] s/me/nean [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:09] it may be stable but it should be optional for the user to enable based on their own circumstances/hardware [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:16] than: that's what the selftests in kwin are for [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:19] jreznik: every time i try it here i have to disable it because it messes up my system. [Út led 20 2009] [17:19:56] if the system underperforms or is not capable of those effects, they get disabled [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:31] i start getting crashes. and lockups [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:33] I'd say keep the stuff off by default in F9 and F10 for good. Try it in Rawhide and we'll see how it goes, we can disable it for F11 final if it's broken. [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:51] ltinkl: it's not only the systems underperforms [Út led 20 2009] [17:20:58] then i have the ati radeon 3550 that works with radeonhd but has zero 3d support [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:17] mplayer doesn't play videos correct [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:18] dgilmore: you don't necessarily need 3D support [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:27] with desktop effect enable [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:35] There's XRender indeed, but is this used by default? [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:36] ltinkl: i dont have accelerated 2d support either [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:42] Kevin_Kofler: no [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:57] dgilmore: XRender mode is supposed to work even with software XRender. [Út led 20 2009] [17:21:59] Kevin_Kofler: it's used as a fallback if there's not 3D support [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:02] Slow, but it should work. [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:12] dgilmore: you're in a bad driver situation where the driver claims to support stuff, but it doesn't actually work. :( [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:13] yup, it's a bit sloweer [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:19] slower * [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:32] rdieter: it does for lots of hardware. but mine is still too new [Út led 20 2009] [17:22:51] rdieter: but i have to use radeonhd to get working X [Út led 20 2009] [17:23:39] Quit dash123 has left this server ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). [Út led 20 2009] [17:24:20] Well, time's passing quickly, so I think we should vote: who's for disabling desktop effects by default in F9 and F10? [Út led 20 2009] [17:24:29] +1 (i.e. disable by default) from me [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:15] +1 (on by default for F11) [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:26] disable by default +1 from me too [Út led 20 2009] [17:25:52] desktop effects causes problems on machines for me [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:01] This is for F9 and F10, we can have another vote for F11 next. :-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:09] +1 for disable by default [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:23] Join tibbs has joined this channel (n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs). [Út led 20 2009] [17:26:24] So I think the consensus is to off by default for F9 and F10, rdieter, jreznik, any objections? [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:01] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:14] +1 to plan [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:16] OK. And what should we do for F11? [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:25] Join tk009 has joined this channel (n=tk009@adsl-074-166-251-205.sip.bct.bellsouth.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:53] Kevin_Kofler: we have time for this decision imo [Út led 20 2009] [17:27:54] Kevin_Kofler: on during devel, then based on bug reports/feedback, possibly disable if needed? [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:05] mharris: That's what I suggested too. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:07] would help to get bugs worked out IMHO [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:12] I think it makes sense. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:14] Kevin_Kofler: if seli and upstream says try it, let's give it a shot for alpha/betas/rc's and see how things go, and re-evaluate if necessary [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:23] And it's also upstream's default. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:23] exactly [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:37] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:49] OK, so that's the plan: F9 and F10 => off by default, Rawhide on, decide for F11 final based on feedback from Rawhide. [Út led 20 2009] [17:28:58] And loudly complain to upstream if the feedback is bad. ;-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:29:05] maybe prepare live cd with proprietary drivers, so more people can test it... rdieter? [Út led 20 2009] [17:29:35] Proprietary drivers are probably going to crash the heck out of it... [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:35] Quit itamarjp has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:39] jreznik: I'm ok with trying, but I've asked for help to drive that on fedora-kde list. I feel it probably requires someone with said hardware to properly test [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:49] um [Út led 20 2009] [17:30:58] Join J5 has joined this channel (n=quintice@66.187.234.199). [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:06] not to be all "wtf are you doing", but what exactly are you talking about here? [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:08] I'd be uncomforatable throuwing something together without knowing if it even works or not [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:17] Join itamarjp has joined this channel (n=itamar@189-015-208-231.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br). [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:17] rdieter: I can test with Nvidia and ATI [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:35] jwb: see topic [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:38] jwb: considering an omega-like kde live spin, which includes (at least) nvidia blobs [Út led 20 2009] [17:31:56] I don't see why we should care about proprietary drivers at all. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:00] They're not supported. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:10] * jwb reminds the group to abide by the trademark rules if you want to do this thing made of fail [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:13] If it crashes hard, too bad for them, not our fault. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:21] Kevin_Kofler: nod, I'd rather those folks who want this, be the ones that put in time/effort to make it happen. :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:35] jwb: nod, of course [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:44] jwb: what trademark rules? [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:46] rdieter: I'd rather we just ignore their bug reports. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:50] We can't fix them anyway. [Út led 20 2009] [17:32:57] Kevin_Kofler: that too, don't we already? :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:01] ltinkl, the ones that say you can't include things from outside of Fedora and still call it Fedora [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:03] (because they're bugs in the driver blob which we don't have access to) [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:24] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:25] ltinkl: our testing live images now are already unbranded and unofficial. [Út led 20 2009] [17:33:46] jwb: so including KDE and calling it Fedora is ok? :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:01] KDE is in Fedora... [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:07] not really sure what you're getting at [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:16] But not the 4.2 prereleases rebuilt for F10. :-) [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:20] Which is what the live CDs are of. [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:26] And they're unbranded. [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:31] np, I just wasn't aware of which trademark you were talking about [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:38] context: http://rdieter.livejournal.com/11843.html [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:49] But can we please move on, we already spent half an hour on this one topic! [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:54] yes [Út led 20 2009] [17:34:55] yeah, sorry [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:09] move_on++ [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:11] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - split akonadi in kdebase-workspace in subpackage". [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:15] Next topic: split akonadi in kdebase-workspace in subpackage [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:30] Basically, there's Akonadi stuff in kdelibs, kdepimlibs and kdebase-workspace. [Út led 20 2009] [17:35:52] than would like this split out so users who don't use kdepim don't get akonadi (and mysql-server with it) forced on them. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:43] Actually, not sure about kdelibs, probably not. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:52] But kdepimlibs and kdebase-workspace do have Akonadi stuff. [Út led 20 2009] [17:36:52] I don't see any kdebase-workspace akonadi deps? only in kdepimlibs and kdepim. ?? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:14] Well, then maybe than was wrong about kdebase-workspace? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:34] those are the only complaints I get, if I try: rpm -e akonadi :) [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:41] What's sure is that kdebase and a few other kde* components drag in kdepimlibs which drags in Akonadi. [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:46] does kdebase-workspacee require mysql.server? [Út led 20 2009] [17:37:51] than: no [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:08] * than is checking [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:09] only akonadi Requires mysql-server [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:30] But akonadi is required by kdepimlibs which is required by several KDE modules. [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:33] So that's the dep chain. [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:34] so... I'm ok with looking to splitting akonadi-related deps from kdepimlibs to achieve the same goal [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:44] if that's possible [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:47] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - split akonadi in kdepimlibs in subpackage". [Út led 20 2009] [17:38:54] (I fixed the topic. :-) ) [Út led 20 2009] [17:39:41] probably the libakonadi-*.so shlibs in kdepimlibs (and maybe more). [Út led 20 2009] [17:39:55] We should figure out what part of kdepimlibs are used outside of kdepim and why. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:19] Join CheekyBoinc has joined this channel (n=CheekyBo@fedora/CheekyBoinc). [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:26] I'm afraid that those libs may well require Akonadi now. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:33] All the PIM stuff is getting migrated to it. [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:46] proposal: let than continue investigating what needs splitting, and re-evaluate when we have all the facts [Út led 20 2009] [17:40:56] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:04] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:14] +1 [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:23] rdieter: yum remove mysql-server [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:29] besides you will never know about other apps (like extragear) who might use it as well [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:34] you get a long list of kde to be removed [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:40] than: We need to know what the exact deps involved are. [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:49] We can't decide anything without that information. [Út led 20 2009] [17:41:50] than: sure, because mysql-server -> akonadi -> kdepimlibs -> kde world [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:13] ok, i will take a look there [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:23] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - disabling gpk-update-icon for KDE". [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:28] OK, next topic: disabling gpk-update-icon for KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:42:53] Doing that would be trivial, but the big concern we had when this was last discussed was with upgrade paths. [Út led 20 2009] [17:43:17] It would mean that no kpackagekit = no updater. [Út led 20 2009] [17:43:56] E.g. for F9 installations updated to the latest updates or upgraded to F10. [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:15] On the other hand, having both updaters running is clearly broken. [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:25] is kpackagekit on par with features of gnome-packagekit? [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:27] Kevin_Kofler: is kpackagekit stable enough to replace gpk-update-icon [Út led 20 2009] [17:44:58] i mean gnome-packagekit [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:00] It's the default in F10 already. [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:21] But there's this scary bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=475303 [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:23] Bug 475303: medium, high, ---, smparrish@shallowcreek.net, ASSIGNED, KPackageKit sometimes forgets setting not to auto-install security updates [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:28] Kevin_Kofler: what? :) I didn't notice certainly [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:28] This is really annoying. [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:32] kpackagekit currently not feature complete, but it is stable. New release pending [Út led 20 2009] [17:45:35] Join themayor has joined this channel (n=jack@dsl081-200-018.nyc2.dsl.speakeasy.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:11] We tried changing the default both in kde-settings and in the code, still sometimes it decides to reset to "Security only". [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:24] Quit giallu has left this server (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:24] I now suspect that it's because it's the first entry in the combobox. [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:31] It is ready for everyday use, and that affore mentioned bug is affecting some people, but I cannot recreate it on my boxes [Út led 20 2009] [17:46:38] Changing the order of the combobox entries could do some magic. [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:10] Join giallu has joined this channel (n=giallu@fedora/giallu). [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:24] It happens on both my machines. [Út led 20 2009] [17:47:39] But it's not reproducible, it just sometimes magically happens. [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:08] (and annoys me to no end, I hate getting stuff installed without asking for it) [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:30] And it says "Security only", but actually installs all updates. [Út led 20 2009] [17:48:59] Kevin_Kofler: is kpackagekit default in F10 only for new installations? [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:13] ltinkl: yes [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:15] Kevin_Kofler: installing without asking is bad [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:26] Quit rishi has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:33] jreznik: I know. [Út led 20 2009] [17:49:50] I'd call it a showstopper, it's really bad that we can't manage to fix it. [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:18] It's bad enough that F10 got released with that bug unfixed. [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:23] I'm not using GUI for it, CLI yum is my friend... for me it's showstopper too [Út led 20 2009] [17:50:35] the other approach is to make kpackagekit overrride/disable gnome-packagekit in kde, but that hack/trick doesn't work due to due a kdelibs feature/bug imo. we could explore fixing that bug, then the problem is solved. [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:34] rdieter: what is this bug? [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:59] Join sdziallas has joined this channel (n=sebastia@p57A2D337.dip.t-dialin.net). [Út led 20 2009] [17:52:59] a similar issue has crept of with gnome-packagekit also installing when it shouldn't maybe its packagekit related [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:19] Install .desktop file in both /etc/xdg/autostart and /usr/share/autostart, the one in /usr/share/autostart should take preference and override the other. [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:34] So setting that to Hidden=true should disable the autostarting in KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:53:35] including a gpk-foo.desktop file in ~/.config/autostart works to override gnome-packagekit, but /usr/share/autostart doesn't [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:04] SMParrish: No, that was a completely different issue. [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:31] It was about gnome-packagekit installing preupgrade so it can offer distro upgrades. [Út led 20 2009] [17:54:51] What we're seeing is definitely a KPackageKit issue. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:06] It changes settings around in dialogs which PackageKit has no access to. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:06] kevin_kofler: your right, bad memory too many bugs in my head lol [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:08] my and Kevin's reading of the code seems to indicate that the override *should* work, but haven't dug very deep to determine how/why it doesn't [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:37] Join warren has joined this channel (n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren). [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:38] rdieter: It'd need single-stepping in a debugger, I think. [Út led 20 2009] [17:55:49] eww [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:03] rdieter: for what do we want this? [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:47] kpackagekit installing a .desktop file to disable gnome-packagekit in KDE. [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:53] than: 1.. to continue to allow kde users to use gnome-packagekit, and 2. when/if kpackagekit is installed, disable gnome-packagekit for kde [Út led 20 2009] [17:56:58] That way if you don't have kpackagekit, you'd still get gnome-packagekit. [Út led 20 2009] [17:57:40] down the road, this may also be a useful trick to use for NetworkManager-gnome [Út led 20 2009] [17:58:29] you mean kpackagekit installs own gpk-update-icon.desktop? [Út led 20 2009] [17:59:03] than: not currently [Út led 20 2009] [17:59:07] Join Zool^ has joined this channel (n=kaland@213.225.96.164). [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:06] Topic Kevin_Kofler sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-01-20 - live CD size issues". [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:08] hm i really don't like this [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:16] Quit nphilipp has left this server ("Leaving"). [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:22] I'm not convinced it's a good idea either. [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:38] But what I see is that we're running out of time. [Út led 20 2009] [18:00:58] I'd say let's bring this up again next week. [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:03] without such a hack/trick, then we're into the worse "upgrade path" [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:10] upgrade path mess... that is [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:15] let's move the kpackagekit issue to the next meeting, we have to resolve this [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:20] Maybe we should just have kdebase-workspace require kpackagekit? [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:39] Kevin_Kofler: that's the best/only option right now, yeah [Út led 20 2009] [18:01:59] There's one last topic on the agenda: svahl asked for feedback on the mailing list because the live CD is oversized again. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:00] but move on, time is short [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:04] Mainly due to input methods. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:08] but having both gpk and kpackagekit installed at the same time doesn't make much sense either [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:09] Join abadger19991 has joined this channel (n=abadger1@65.78.187.8). [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:24] ltinkl: +1 [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:25] right, move on [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:27] ltinkl: multiuser machine, 1 users -> gnome, 1 user -> kde [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:28] I think we should just drop (i.e. not add, we never had them) the input methods from the KDE live image. [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:36] Quit abadger1999 has left this server ("Leaving."). [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:39] ok s/installed/running [Út led 20 2009] [18:02:43] but you get the idea [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:05] Join hansg has joined this channel (n=hans@ip32-174-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl). [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:10] But maybe we should discuss this in the mailing list thread? We're already over time. [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:11] Hi all [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:12] Kevin_Kofler: +1, we make no bones about admitting our live image is English only [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:22] I'm present [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:56] Quit gja has left this server (Remote closed the connection). [Út led 20 2009] [18:03:58] I'd say let's make room for the FPC folks now. [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:10] * spot is here as well [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:10] let's move home to #fedora-kde [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:27] FPC folks: feel free to change the topic, we're done here. [Út led 20 2009] [18:04:50] Part Kevin_Kofler has left this channel ("Bye!"). [Út led 20 2009] [18:05:17] Topic spot sets the channel topic to "Fedora Packaging Committee Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/DraftsTodo". [Út led 20 2009] [18:05:40] Join racor has joined this channel (n=rc040203@HSI-KBW-078-043-127-065.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de). [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:20] i see hans, me, and racor [Út led 20 2009] [18:06:41] * rdieter puts on fpc hat