[Di Mär 4 2008] [17:03:15] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Init". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:03:25] So who's present? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:03:58] ltinkl, svahl, than: Ping? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:00] I am [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:06] present [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:10] present [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:35] FYI, rdieter is busy with some emergency at work (as said on #fedora-kde). [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:52] me [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:04:59] So let's start with the first topic. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:05:06] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - PolicyKit integration (#428212)". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:05:13] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428212 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:05:15] Bug 428212: low, low, ---, Lukas Tinkl, ASSIGNED , unable to mount partitions in dolphin [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:05:33] ltinkl: Any progress on this? Do you need help? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:06:13] I started a discussion with Will Stephenson on how to implement a PolicyKit support [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:06:37] nothing was done yet, I was dragged away by other bugs [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:06:49] But will full PolicyKit support be usable in time for F9? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:07:11] Or should we implement a quick hack like what Kubuntu implemented for KDE 3? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:07:17] the latter probably [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:07:52] looks like a KDE-wide PolicyKit support is going to enter upstream in a long term (KDE 4.1) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:08:21] Do you think you'll have time to implement the hack soon (before the F9 beta, ideally) or do you want me to work on it (hoping I have the time)? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:09:12] Kevin_Kofler: when exactly is the beta coming? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:09:41] end of march [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:09:43] The freeze is in 6 days or so, then there'll be a few more days for last-minute fixes. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:09:56] ok [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:10:16] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:10:20] not entirely. The live images are normally build a few days after the freeze (assuming that there are no blockers) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:10:32] I'll try to come up with something, I'll ask you for help Kevin when needed [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:11:01] March 11 is the freeze, March 20 the release, the live images are generated somewhere inbetween. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:11:13] OK, next topic. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:11:18] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - KDE 4.0.2". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:11:40] Probably not much to say there, it has hit Rawhide, tomorrow's the official release. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:12:08] i run it for a while already [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:12:28] i noticed many fixes [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:12:33] than, ltinkl: Maybe we should try reenabling the docs in kde-l10n? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:12:47] I've build the new versions of kiconedit and kcoloredit this morning. kgrab has no newer release [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:13:10] Stalwart: can you please review the bugs filed against KDE 4.0.0 to see if they're still valid under 4.0.2? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:13:23] Kevin_Kofler: it's still broken [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:13:32] OK. :-( [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:13:40] ye, Dirk complained about it on the MLs [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:14:09] ltinkl, if i have spare time [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:14:13] OK, next topic? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:14:46] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Packaging API docs". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:15:03] Currently we're not building apidocs at all. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:15:22] I think we should enable these for where it makes sense, at least soprano, kdelibs and kdepimlibs. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:15:23] you mean packaging them as a separate RPM? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:15:38] I'd suggest making -apidocs subpackages like we had for KDE 3. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:15:41] and yes, at least kdelibs API would be nice [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:16:11] soprano and kdepimlibs are not much used outside of KDE [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:16:27] rdieter suggested making separate noarch packages (because we can't have noarch subpackages of arch-specific packages), but IIRC most of us didn't agree with it. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:16:37] So I'd suggest just doing the subpackages. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:17:00] Kevin_Kofler: yes, please doing the subpackages [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:17:12] OK, I'll do those as soon as possible. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:17:26] Probably kdelibs first, then the other 2. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:18:27] The non-library modules also have some libs which could probably have apidocs too, but I'm not sure it's worth making those. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:18:59] not worth imo [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:19:13] OK, then let's not bother unless somebody files a bug asking for them. ;-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:19:18] isn't techbase available for rarely used APIs? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:19:25] Yes. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:19:31] so it's ok [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:19:33] Or actually, api.kde.org is. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:20:32] As I said, I'll take care of the apidocs for kdelibs, kdepimlibs and soprano, so I think we can move on. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:20:35] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Getting KDE 4 to use kde-settings defaults". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:21:09] This is a fun one: KDE 4 doesn't seem to understand the kiosktool setup we're using for kde-settings. :-( [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:21:19] That can cause all sorts of problems. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:21:21] ouch [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:21:31] "default" button doesn't work for me [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:22:01] * rdieter is back (mostly). [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:22:36] It also causes an issue for the kdebase4 backports where Dolphin doesn't honor the setting to double click mode because KDE 3 KControl doesn't write out the setting because it's already the default in kde-settings, but KDE 4 doesn't see the kde-settings default. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:22:39] can't we just override the global config files in $KDEDIR/share/config? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:22:55] We could, but it just hacks around the real problem. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:23:00] One quick-n-dirty way to address this (f9+ only of course) is that we could move move/all of the kiosk-specific stuff (back) to /usr/share/ [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:23:01] Kiosktool is supposed to work. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:23:31] no idea if kiosk was ever intended to work under KDE4 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:24:04] and afaik overriding the global configs is what most distros do [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:24:39] ltinkl: overrride global configs = put distro-customizations directly in $KDEDIR/share/config/ ? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:24:48] ye [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:25:17] well, if kiosk stuff doesn't work, that appears to be the only option. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:25:41] I can followup with upstream (somewhere) to see if this is on anyones radar to be fixed. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:25:46] i prefer moving global configs back to /usr/share/config [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:25:51] Well, fixing the kiosk stuff would be the preferred solution. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:26:14] Even if we move our config back, we still should fix this. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:27:04] Both for the kde*4 backports to F7/F8 where Dolphin currently has that weird issue with the single vs. double click setting and for users actually wanting to use kiosktool themselves. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:28:47] proposal: kde-settings; work to move stuff (back) to /usr/share/config (or equivalent) + in the meantime, see about getting kiosk bits fixed. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:29:31] rdieter: +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:29:35] OK, let's do that. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:29:37] agree as well [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:29:42] +1 (we should have our settings in the beta) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:29:54] related to that: [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:30:18] is there any official F9 artwork available? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:30:44] preferably we should get this in before the beta [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:30:45] Hmmm, last I checked it wasn't ready yet. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:30:49] * rdieter thinks fedora-artwork hasn't finalized on any particular style/theme yet. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:13] We'll definitely not had a KDM theme before the beta. That never worked out. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:17] I'm thinking mostly of default wallpaper, color scheme and a splash screen [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:27] It's always a rush to port the artwork folks' GDM theme at the last moment. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:30] i checked f9 artwork mockups, they all suck compared to (awesome) infinity stuff [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:40] ltinkl: nod [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:51] Actually I really like some of the F9 artwork mockups [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:31:54] Stalwart: Then do you volunteer to port fedorainfinity-kdm-theme to the KDE 4 KDM? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:32:12] isn't kdm4 using GDM styles? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:32:22] We can't use KDE 3 KDM themes. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:32:27] * rdieter giggles [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:32:31] I don't think GDM themes work unmodified either. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:33:03] i could check, current kdm4 theme drives me nuts [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:33:03] hmm, afaik there was some work in kdm to support gdm themes [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:33:27] login manager configuration tools was broken last time i checked [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:33:51] it still is [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:34:41] Hmmm, there's not much we can do until we get the GDM theme from artwork, then we have to see what work is needed to port it. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:35:06] Unless of course we have a volunteer to design a KDM theme from scratch based on the images artwork currently has. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:36:37] So, do we move on and defer this to when we actually have something from artwork to port? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:36:41] i just checked, that flower power theme is not vanilla gdm theme, it's a port [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:37:09] If you can find the matching GDM theme, then the diff will certainly be helpful. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:37:30] But I suggest moving on, we have more stuff to discuss. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:37:58] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Latest live CD testing feedback". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:38:20] So, has anyone other than me tested the live CD yet? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:38:30] I can report the issues I found in QEMU. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:38:39] The KOrganizer Reminder Daemon in current Rawhide (I'm currently testing svahl's latest live CD in QEMU) still doesn't detect the Plasma systray. :-( [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:38:56] IMHO we need a solution for this KDE 3 systray problem as soon as possible. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:39:08] Kevin_Kofler: it does here running native [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:39:09] Kevin_Kofler: worksforme on my rawhide machine. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:39:11] It's really annoying to have those pop up in random places of the screen instead of the Plasma systray. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:39:50] Then why doesn't it work in QEMU with F9-KDE4-72.iso? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:39:51] Kevin_Kofler: when/if that ever happens for me, it was because dbus-session didn't get started properly (for whatever reason). [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:40:28] * ltinkl goes to check [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:40:48] * rdieter hasn't had a chance to try out the latest image(s), yet. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:40:49] Hmmm, dbus being broken would also explain the next issue I found, which was NM not working. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:41:13] nm-applet didn't show up, nor was it able to obtain a connection. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:41:28] system-config-network just worked. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:43:03] I also had aRts (when running KDE 3 Konversation) whining about not finding /dev/dsp, but that might be expected with no sound device (QEMU without any sound emulation). [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:43:24] Does aRts work for you on Rawhide? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:44:08] I've not tested if sound works, but artsd isn't complaining here [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:44:28] OK, then I'll have to assume it's expected. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:45:26] One thing I've forgotten to mention in the mail: If you do an installation, please test if the "next" button is working for you in each screen of liveinst [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:45:33] One last thing I noticed is that Konqueror does weird things to edit boxes, in the webchat accessible from http://tigcc.ticalc.org/ , the edit box shows no cursor and opening a parenthesis clears the line being edited. :-( But I probably have to report that one upstream. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:45:55] It isn't sometimes here (maybe because the window is of fixed size) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:46:42] (the next button) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:48:11] Hmmm, I don't have a spare real partition to install to and clicking through the installer in QEMU is likely to take ages (even with kqemu, and my hardware doesn't support KVM). :-( So I'm not sure I'll be of much help testing this. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:49:17] One time it was right before the partitioning screen. So it may also happen on real hardware without an installation [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:49:19] Hmmm, 10 minutes, 3 more topics, can we move on? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:49:46] just for the record: because gparted is gone, amarok is back [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:49:57] now we can move on :) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:50:10] Awoooo! :-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:50:16] o.O [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:50:27] I thought the Sulphur is fighting the Werewolf. ;-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:50:32] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Using ON_DEV when claiming bugs because ASSIGNED is now used for a different purpose by the triage team". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:51:27] According to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/BugStatusWorkFlow ASSIGNED now means "ready to be worked on by developers". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:51:34] So I suggest that we use ON_DEV when we actually start working on bugs so the other team members know the bug is being actually worked on and not just triaged. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:51:49] Any opinions? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:52:18] no idea o.O [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:52:44] so what is ASSIGNED being used for now? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:52:53] Kevin_Kofler: why don't we just reassign the bug to someone who wants to work on it [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:53:03] "The triage team believes that this is a complete actionable bug and contains enough information for the package maintainer to investigate the issue with upstream or fix the bug." [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:53:49] either way is fine. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:53:51] Because there's always a default assignee (which is you for most packages) and, as we're working in a team, we can't assume that the default assignee is actually working on all the bugs. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:54:01] (answering than there) [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:55:21] Kevin_Kofler: it's not clean who works on the bug with ON_DEV [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:55:38] We should both reassign the bug to ourselves and set ON_DEV. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:56:00] A bug should never be ON_DEV when it's not assigned to the right person yet. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:56:16] That's the whole point of adding this step. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:56:45] The triagers can then just set it to ASSIGNED as they want to do, we reassign to the person taking responsibility for the bug, then set to ON_DEV. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:57:23] Kevin_Kofler: it is fine. +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:57:50] The goal there being that we don't want to step on each other's toes, nor believe that we would do that when in fact the bug has just been assigned to the default assignee by the triage team. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:58:01] rdieter, ltinkl: OK with the proposal? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:58:06] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:58:27] yup [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:58:30] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - split out of khelpcenter from kdebase3 (#435133 and #435873)". [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:58:37] OK, next topic, we're running out of time. [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:59:19] So, we should do a kdebase3-khelpcenter? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:59:21] I've added this because konversation is the only package that pulls kdebase3 in: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=435873 [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:59:23] Bug 435873: low, low, ---, Dennis Gilmore, NEW , Why is kdebase3 a (Build)Require? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:59:43] One other option: can't we just drop the dep and ship the app with no working help by default? [Di Mär 4 2008] [17:59:45] imho, yes. This would free some space on the live image [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:00:02] That's what the GNOME apps using yelp all do, to avoid pulling in xulrunner onto our live CD mainly. :-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:00:06] at least dgilmore seems to not want that (see his comment in that bug) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:00:19] i know :) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:00:47] but how much work would it be to split out khelpcenter into a subpkg? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:01:04] Probably not much, assuming it doesn't use other stuff from kdebase3. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:01:45] imo, drop dep for now, we'll come up with a better solution eventually (hopefully sooner rather than later). [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:01:49] What files are needed exactly? The khelpcenter binary for sure, other stuff too? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:01:52] IMHO we should give it a try (I could try it) and then add a BR to kdelibs3 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:02:03] Kevin_Kofler: /usr/share/services/khelpcenter.desktop [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:02:14] And those are all? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:02:17] Kevin_Kofler: yep [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:02:22] the khelpcenter kcm? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:02:48] svahl: dont be a jerk [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:06] svahl: all i want is the best experience for users [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:09] /usr/lib/libkdeinit_khelpcenter.so [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:14] working help is part of that [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:28] dgilmore: I haven't said that [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:29] as long as help works i dont care where it comes from [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:47] nod, I think we're all on the same page then. :) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:03:58] Who's going to work on the kdebase3-khelpcenter subpackage? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:04:20] We need to collect the full list of files needed, then doing the split should be fairly easy. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:04:48] I could have a try [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:05:11] Do you want direct commit access to kdebase3? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:05:26] Otherwise, one of us can commit it once it's done. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:05:46] I have (I've submitted the review) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:05:56] Oh, OK. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:00] Even better. :-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:09] Kevin_Kofler: only one file is needed: /usr/share/services/khelpcenter.desktop + khelpcenter (from kdebase-runtime, I think?) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:40] svahl: %{_bindir}/khc_indexbuilder %{_bindir}/khelpcenter %{_libdir}/kde/khelpcenter.so %{_libdir}/libkdeinit_khelpcenter.so [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:44] At least the kdeinit_khelpcenter.so file is needed. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:50] and usr/share/services/khelpcenter.desktop [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:57] Gory details: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=435133 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:06:59] Bug 435133: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, ASSIGNED , kde3 apps need khelpcenter service/app [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:07:52] no khelpcenter binaries were required, in my testing. Once the service is available/configured, kde3 apps will use kde4's khelpcenter just fine. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:07:53] OK. Let's let svahl handle this then. Next and last topic. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:08:17] Oh, so it's just the services file and nothing else? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:08:22] yep [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:08:39] Then maybe we can stick that into somewhere else, like kdebase-runtime? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:09:01] On the other hand, KDE 3 apps requiring kdebase-runtime will get people complaining too. We can't win. :-( [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:09:09] I suggested kdelibs in the bug, but moving it elsewhere artificially just feels wrong. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:09:28] but yeah, whatever owned khelpcenter's binaries, it should probably be pulled out into a subpkg too. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:09:48] Well, khelpcenter needs at least the KDE 4 libs. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:10:13] Which is already too much for people who want to use old KDE 3 apps only (on some other desktop), see the bug which asked us for kdelibs-common. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:10:46] But I don't want to ship an old khelpcenter (which we'd have to rename, too), either. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:11:56] Hmmm, we're running way over time, nobody else needs the chan? :-) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:12:09] well, khelpcenter is in kdebase-runtime and would need kdebase-runtime. Do we win sth. when splitting it to a sbupkg then? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:12:28] No. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:12:38] The KDE 4 khelpcenter should just stay in kdebase-runtime. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:13:02] The KDE 3 service file (assuming it's all that's needed), I don't know where to put it. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:13:28] Requiring all of kdebase3 for one small text file is definitely asinine. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:13:47] maybe also kdebase-runtime then. But then all kde3 apps would need a BR: kdebase-runtime then [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:13:58] s/BR/R [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:13:58] A runtime Requires, not BR, actually. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:14:12] But they'll need it anyway for khelpcenter. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:15:00] maybe we could put a Require: kdebase-runtime in kdelibs3 but someone will maybe shoot us :) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:15:02] I'd say we should do it as the GNOME folks do and not do a hard requirement on the help, it drags in too much. But we should move the service to kdebase-runtime so help just works on the KDE live CD or in any KDE 4 session, without having to install kdebase3. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:15:32] But if people don't want any KDE 4 stuff, they'll have to live without the help. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:15:38] I don't see any other solution. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:15:43] +1 (and we should put this in the rel-notes) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:16:01] dgilmore: Could you live with that for Konversation? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:16:32] Help would work on the KDE Live spin or any other installation which includes kdebase-runtime, but it wouldn't be a hard Requires. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:16:39] * rdieter still thinks khelpcenter could be split from kdebase-runtime, but that's a separate issue, and we can worry abou that latter, when/if anyone has time to work on it. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:17:33] So everyone OK with moving the KDE 3 .service file to kdebase-runtime (as a Source1)? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:17:45] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:17:49] +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:18:11] rdieter, ltinkl? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:18:21] +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:18:46] Well, let's bring up the last topic then, we're already way over time. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:18:47] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - #435656: closing bluemarble causes desktop session to end". [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:18:51] I looked at this. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:16] I think this is upstream http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152845 (which is not fixed yet). [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:18] Bug 152845: medium, medium, ---, Fedora Legacy Bugs, CLOSED ERRATA, CAN-2004-0452, CAN-2004-0976, CAN-2005-0155, CAN-2005-0156, CAN-2005-0448 multiple perl vulns [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:22] Ignore this one. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:28] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=435656 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:30] Bug 435656: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , closing bluemarble causes desktop session to end [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:19:35] This is the Fedora bug for it. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:20:07] confirmed here last night, nuked my kde4 session nicely it did. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:20:15] Judging from the backtrace in the upstream bug, it's a crash somewhere in Qt. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:20:26] I'm not sure what causes that crash. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:20:31] Nor are the upstream developers. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:20:35] So the upstream report is still open. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:21:00] I looked at the lines of code pointed to by the backtrace, but that didn't illuminate me. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:22:24] I think we can't do much as long as upstream doesn't know what's wrong. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:22:59] omit it from packaging (in extragear-plasma)? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:06] and you've said they targetting kde-4.1 for the next release of extragear-plasma. So should we nuke it for now= [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:07] ? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:08] it doesn't work for a vast majority of users anyway. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:25] We could kill just the BlueMarble applet. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:33] kill +1 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:37] (which, I think, is what rdieter was suggesting) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:23:56] +1 (I also meant only bluemarble) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:04] OK, I'll disable BlueMarble. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:13] ugh, can't be believe we missed this: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=435956 [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:15] Bug 435956: low, low, ---, Rex Dieter, ON_DEV , yum update removes kdewebdev [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:18] kill it, die die :) [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:34] That's the multilib Obsoletes hack at work again. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:24:44] nod, yucky yucky. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:25:18] opinion: drop Obsoletes: hack, or add Requires: %{name} (to -libs). ? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:25:41] Synaptic did the right thing here (but that's because apt-rpm was fixed specifically for this kind of issues, it did this even more often than yum). [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:25:44] looks like you can't do one without the other. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:26:15] There's plenty of cases where there isn't the Requires: %{name} in -libs, yet yum doesn't remove the main package for those. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:26:23] I don't understand what's different here. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:27:28] Is there any use for the libs without the main pkg? [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:27:35] If not, I'd say just add the Requires. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:28:00] * Kevin_Kofler is running repoquery --whatrequires --alldeps kdewebdev-libs [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:28:34] Nothing except kdewebdev*. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:28:39] So just add the Requires. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:28:47] ok, that's easy. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:29:10] * rdieter will keep an eye out for other cases like this too. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:30:09] Well, I remember a F7->F8 upgrade with Anaconda clearing out most of the kde* main packages here, even where it broke deps! [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:30:30] I ended up with a twm to run apt-get --fix-broken install in. :-( [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:31:00] I'm not sure why nobody else reported anything like that. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:32:39] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-04 - Open Discussion". [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:32:58] So, anything else? Otherwise, let's close the meeting, we're already way over the usual hour. [Di Mär 4 2008] [18:36:01] So, that was it, thanks for attending, if you have any further things to discuss, we can do this on #fedora-kde.