Okt 02 18:00:17 rdieter kde sig meeting start... Okt 02 18:00:21 rdieter who's around today? Okt 02 18:00:26 Kevin_Kofler Present. Okt 02 18:00:33 svahl present (partly) Okt 02 18:01:12 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - Init Okt 02 18:02:18 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-02 -- Init Okt 02 18:02:21 Kevin_Kofler Status update for the kde*4 packages: they landed in Rawhide, and I've also requested to promote them to F7 updates (they've also reached stablekarma, but that was after I had submitted it to stable anyway :-) ). Okt 02 18:02:47 Kevin_Kofler So I think we don't have anything KDE 4 related to discuss this time. We have 4 BZ entries on the agenda. Okt 02 18:03:26 * rdieter is adding qt-copy patches bug to agenda... Okt 02 18:03:53 Kevin_Kofler So make that 5 BZ entries. :-) Okt 02 18:04:27 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-02 -- knetworkmanager Okt 02 18:04:39 rdieter http://bugzilla.redhat.com/298991 Okt 02 18:05:00 rdieter for the moment, looks like knetworkmanager will miss f8t3 Okt 02 18:05:20 Kevin_Kofler -"for the moment" Okt 02 18:05:26 Kevin_Kofler There's just no way it will make it for test3. Okt 02 18:05:34 rdieter still has a chance to be fixed in time for final, but chances aren't looking good. Okt 02 18:05:36 Kevin_Kofler The best we can do is to get it working for F8 final. Okt 02 18:05:51 Kevin_Kofler But even that doesn't look good. Okt 02 18:05:52 rdieter right (I worded the initial comment poorly) Okt 02 18:06:15 rdieter more of a status update, unless someone has other comments, let's move on... Okt 02 18:06:38 svahl nm-applet seems to be working as a replacement. Okt 02 18:06:54 svahl but I've only tested this in vmware (no wireless here) Okt 02 18:07:26 rdieter yeah, i've used it before too, but I was missing gnome-keyring support, so had to type in the wep keys on every connect. Okt 02 18:07:55 Kevin_Kofler With gnome-keyring, you have to type the keyring password all the time instead. :-/ Okt 02 18:08:03 Kevin_Kofler They don't support passwordless keyrings like KWallet does. Okt 02 18:08:18 rdieter Ugh. Okt 02 18:08:53 rdieter unless you keyring pass = login pass, doesn't that work ( via pam module)? Okt 02 18:08:58 Kevin_Kofler There's a pam_keyring which reuses the user password to unlock the keyring (if you give it the same password), but it's not enabled in KDM. Okt 02 18:09:07 Kevin_Kofler (in the current KDM config) Okt 02 18:09:08 rdieter I think it is actually... Okt 02 18:09:35 rdieter arg, maybe not (it used to be there...I swear). :) Okt 02 18:11:46 rdieter afk a few minutes, go on without me... Okt 02 18:12:01 drago01 where is than? Okt 02 18:12:18 svahl usually not present Okt 02 18:12:36 Kevin_Kofler Unfortunately. Okt 02 18:14:08 svahl ok. next topic? Okt 02 18:14:32 svahl this one is already fixed so we don't have to discuss it: #290571: kdesktop and symlink default wallpaper Okt 02 18:15:25 Kevin_Kofler Good news. So up to the color scheme? Okt 02 18:15:31 Kevin_Kofler https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=295631 Okt 02 18:16:46 svahl well. this is just a suggestion. I think the colour of the kwin bar doesn't match the wallpaper very well. but I haven't had the time to play around with some colours (or maybe the fedora colour) Okt 02 18:17:24 Kevin_Kofler Try the Bluecurve color scheme maybe? That's very close to Plastik, but the blue is darker. Okt 02 18:17:28 Kevin_Kofler So maybe it looks good. Okt 02 18:17:46 Kevin_Kofler Otherwise, we could also play around with a special color scheme. Okt 02 18:18:29 Kevin_Kofler The one I did for KDM won't work here, because the GDM/KDM background is different and also because it also recolors stuff like textbox backgrounds. Okt 02 18:20:15 svahl ok. I will have a look with the bluecurve one Okt 02 18:22:20 * Kevin_Kofler hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-02 -- fedorainfinity-kdm-theme Okt 02 18:22:29 Kevin_Kofler Review request: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=313431 Okt 02 18:22:40 Kevin_Kofler Has anyone had a look already? Okt 02 18:23:30 svahl yeah. looks great. Okt 02 18:23:58 Kevin_Kofler Are you going to do the review? Should be fairly straightforward. Okt 02 18:24:14 svahl I have no experiences with reviews Okt 02 18:24:17 Kevin_Kofler Once this goes in, we'll have to change the defaults in kdebase too. Okt 02 18:24:21 svahl it would be my first Okt 02 18:24:35 Kevin_Kofler kde-settings actually. Okt 02 18:24:51 svahl only one comment. maybe the username looks better in white (like here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-September/pngJvXONvHakJ.png) Okt 02 18:25:28 Kevin_Kofler You mean the textbox should have a white background? Unfortunately we can't do that. Okt 02 18:25:36 Kevin_Kofler The listbox background and the textbox background is the same color. Okt 02 18:25:54 Kevin_Kofler KDE 4's KDM will be more flexible there AFAIK, but we'll have to do with what's there. Okt 02 18:26:16 svahl I know. I mean the text colour. Okt 02 18:26:36 Kevin_Kofler The "Username:" label? Okt 02 18:26:53 svahl yes Okt 02 18:27:28 Kevin_Kofler That's already supposed to be color="#ffffff"... Okt 02 18:28:27 Kevin_Kofler I just tried it in Xnest, it shows up white here. Okt 02 18:28:55 rdieter ok, back now. Okt 02 18:29:21 rdieter I'll try to get to the review within a day or 2 if no one beats me to it. Okt 02 18:30:17 rdieter Kevin_Kofler: do you have cvs access to kde-settings (yet)? If not, we should probably add you. Okt 02 18:30:32 Kevin_Kofler Not yet. Okt 02 18:30:32 rdieter if you want, don't mind, that is. :) Okt 02 18:30:57 Kevin_Kofler I definitely don't mind. :-) Okt 02 18:31:48 rdieter go request access, and I'll approve it then. Okt 02 18:31:52 rdieter anything else here? move on? Okt 02 18:32:31 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-02 -- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/276521 (please apply qt-copy patches 0079 and 0080) Okt 02 18:32:46 rdieter stuck there too, than is (still) the sole qt maintainer.\ Okt 02 18:33:29 rdieter I'll go see if I can get my comaint request approved by rel-eng/fesco, and move that along. Okt 02 18:33:57 rdieter darn, I forget who it was I chatted with from @redhat Fri, but they said they'd be here in than's place today. Okt 02 18:35:20 rdieter Karsten ... ??? (not Wade) Okt 02 18:35:30 Kevin_Kofler Hopp? Okt 02 18:35:38 rdieter yeah, that's it I think. Okt 02 18:36:08 rdieter don't see him around either now tho. Okt 02 18:37:02 rdieter any other comments here? Otherwise, we can open the floor to open discussion. Okt 02 18:37:47 Kevin_Kofler I think we should decide if we want to apply just those patches or all. Okt 02 18:37:56 Kevin_Kofler I think we should apply all of qt-copy. Okt 02 18:38:05 Kevin_Kofler Also considering that TrollTech is no longer supporting Qt 3. Okt 02 18:38:13 rdieter anyone listening (@redhat) know and/or can budge/ping than, khopp, that would be great. :) Okt 02 18:38:45 rdieter kde community (kinda) is supporting it tho for as long as kde-3 exists, so it's not *that* bad. Okt 02 18:38:58 Kevin_Kofler But we need to actually apply their patches for that. :-) Okt 02 18:39:23 rdieter I know there are 1,2 qt-copy patches that actually break binary compatibility, so we'll have to tread lightly there, but otherwise, I'm for generally including all/most of those. Okt 02 18:39:39 Kevin_Kofler And for Qt 4, qt-copy has some patches for stuff they noticed with KDE 4 and which isn't fixed upstream at TT yet. Okt 02 18:40:10 rdieter same comment applies there too, for qt4 (generally in favor of the idea) Okt 02 18:41:26 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-02 -- open discussion Okt 02 18:43:26 rdieter smaller topic, any objection if I worked on making a kdebase4-runtime pkg? Okt 02 18:43:58 Kevin_Kofler Huh? What's wrong with the kdebase4 in CVS? Okt 02 18:44:00 rdieter (sub)pkg, so we can more clearly identify what parts identify what we call our kde4 development environment? Okt 02 18:44:03 Kevin_Kofler That's essentially kdebase-runtime. Okt 02 18:44:24 Kevin_Kofler Well, what would be non-runtime stuff is basically only Dolphin. Okt 02 18:44:27 rdieter there are some extra parts included beyond just runtime. Okt 02 18:44:31 rdieter exactly. Okt 02 18:44:39 Kevin_Kofler And then some KCMs which are technically in apps/, but not really apps. ;-) Okt 02 18:45:22 rdieter it may help with multilib'ing a bit, so that all the extra stuff doesn't get pulled in. Okt 02 18:45:45 rdieter or do you think a -runtime subpkg is a bad idea? Okt 02 18:46:09 rdieter or maybe just not needed? Okt 02 18:46:20 Kevin_Kofler What exactly do we put in the -runtime subpackage? Exactly what's in upstream runtime/? Or do we also add the KCMs which can also be used by other apps than Konqueror, which is what they're built with. Okt 02 18:46:36 rdieter parts from kdebase/runtime (from kdebase4 tarball) Okt 02 18:46:55 rdieter s/parts/everything/ I meant Okt 02 18:47:03 Kevin_Kofler If multilibbing is the goal, the KCMs should go into -runtime too, they also need to be multilibbed, actually apps don't. Okt 02 18:47:07 Kevin_Kofler -ly Okt 02 18:47:21 rdieter why kcms? what's the point? Okt 02 18:47:25 Kevin_Kofler "actual apps" like Dolphin or like the stuff we're currently excluding because they'd conflict with the apps. Okt 02 18:47:32 Kevin_Kofler with the KDE 3 apps. Okt 02 18:48:08 Kevin_Kofler They're in %{libdir}/kde4, so they need to be mutlilibbed, and they can be (and are) reused by other apps. Okt 02 18:48:14 rdieter could include some of those conflicting bits in a separate pkg too, with explicit Conflicts set (but that goes beyond what I'm proposing here) Okt 02 18:48:36 rdieter KControl modules don't make sense to be multilib'd (to me anyway) Okt 02 18:48:56 Kevin_Kofler They're also used in the configuration dialogs of applications. Okt 02 18:49:07 Kevin_Kofler So a 32-bit app needs 32-bit kcms. Okt 02 18:49:17 rdieter but then only install them with the apps, not the runtime. Okt 02 18:49:20 Kevin_Kofler Some kcms are actually part of kdebase-runtime, others are not. Okt 02 18:49:49 Kevin_Kofler They're built as part of Konqueror, but they touch stuff like proxy setting which is useful throughout KIO-using apps. Okt 02 18:50:16 rdieter so, maybe upstream's notion of kdebase/runtime needswork? Okt 02 18:50:41 rdieter and that more bits should be included in runtime? Okt 02 18:51:08 rdieter I was hoping/assuming that kdebase/runtime made that distinction clear/easy for packaging purposes. Okt 02 18:51:10 Kevin_Kofler I'd say it should. But we can just follow upstream and put the KCMs in the apps package (just kdebase4, kdebase4-apps or whatever we want to call it). Okt 02 18:51:34 Kevin_Kofler I think it only affects a few KCMs. Okt 02 18:51:40 rdieter I like the sound of that... Okt 02 18:51:50 Kevin_Kofler Proxy setting is the one I know of, there's 2 or 3 others. Okt 02 18:52:05 Kevin_Kofler Basically the stuff built as part of Konqueror which actually affects all of KIO. Okt 02 18:52:18 rdieter konq rules all. Okt 02 18:52:53 rdieter I've got the work started, so I'm glad I can work to finish it then (tho I'll do the kdm-theme review(s) first) Okt 02 18:53:09 rdieter anything else? or we can call it a day. Okt 02 18:53:11 Kevin_Kofler Oh, another stuff built as part of Konqueror and useful in apps is libkonq. I'm not sure if the KDE 4 version will use it, but the KDE 3 version of Krusader is using libkonq. Okt 02 18:53:18 Kevin_Kofler Yet it's in apps/ in KDE 4. Okt 02 18:53:30 Kevin_Kofler But it's a special case, only file managers are likely to use that. Okt 02 18:54:14 Kevin_Kofler There's also libdolphinprivate, but the name suggests not putting that in runtime/ shouldn't be critical. ;-) Okt 02 18:54:24 Kevin_Kofler Nobody should be using that anyway. ;-) Okt 02 18:54:47 rdieter now that's an example of good library naming. It's clear just from looking at it. Okt 02 18:55:02 rdieter ok, we're running out of time, thanks all. Okt 02 18:55:05 rdieter end meeting. Okt 02 18:55:29 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Okt 02 18:56:57 Kevin_Kofler The KCMs in apps/konqueror/settings/filetypes and apps/konqueror/settings/kio and the one in apps/kdepasswd/kcm might be reusable elsewhere. Okt 02 18:57:07 Kevin_Kofler But that's all for today. :-) Okt 02 19:00:34 rdieter oh, and I liked Ville's thread on fedora-devel advocacy of using xdg-open instead of hard-coded firefox, etc... Okt 02 19:01:36 scop heh, I guessed you'd like it :) Okt 02 19:02:03 tibbs Who wouldn't?