Aug 28 18:01:47 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting Init Aug 28 18:02:23 rdieter KDE SIG meeting, who's present? Aug 28 18:02:28 svahl I'm here Aug 28 18:03:29 svahl a little bit late, but I've updated the meeting page a few minutes ago: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-08-28 Aug 28 18:03:30 rsc RobertScheck Aug 28 18:03:31 rdieter Kevin won't be here, Than's still (likely) recovering. Aug 28 18:04:13 rdieter svahl: thanks. I've been just too busy @ work to think straight that past couple of weeks. Aug 28 18:04:39 rdieter any other agenda items to add? Aug 28 18:04:50 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting agenda Aug 28 18:05:05 svahl maybe the package list for the livecd for test2 Aug 28 18:05:37 rdieter ok, good idea. Aug 28 18:06:44 rdieter KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting -- kde4 status Aug 28 18:06:47 rdieter ok, moving on... Aug 28 18:07:07 rdieter well, not much on the kde4 status front, other than officially admitting defeat to make this for f8. Aug 28 18:07:41 rdieter on the bright side, as suspected, looks like the kde release team will be slipping the kde-4.0 release, possibly by as much as into January. Aug 28 18:08:01 rdieter s/will be slipping/is considering slipping/ Aug 28 18:09:01 rdieter see also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue102#head-6f59b01888fd50a6b06115e57e15b6812713cf8b Aug 28 18:09:33 svahl yeah. already read about that. IMHO this is the best way Aug 28 18:09:45 rdieter fwn is just awesome, I loved the quote: "Rex was upset about this and managed to be both polite and profane" Aug 28 18:10:00 wwoods haha! Aug 28 18:10:03 svahl :) Aug 28 18:10:50 rdieter A nice side affect of that thread was a few folks offered to help us out. Aug 28 18:11:10 rdieter I need to find the time to properly followup on that. Aug 28 18:11:38 rdieter any other comments, questions, rants? Aug 28 18:12:42 rdieter alrighty... Aug 28 18:13:49 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting -- F8test2 preparation, freeze, package list Aug 28 18:14:06 rdieter svahl? package list comment(s)? Aug 28 18:14:23 svahl This is my current one from today: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList Aug 28 18:14:59 rdieter an aside: I asked the xine-lib maintainers to split out arts support from xine-lib-extras, so we needn't pull in all the extra deps Aug 28 18:15:07 svahl I'm respinning right now and try to include koffice-krita (firefox/yelp is finally gone) Aug 28 18:15:23 * svahl notes that Aug 28 18:15:35 rdieter so, pending confirmation that is done, we can subtract xine-lib-extras, add xine-lib-arts Aug 28 18:15:56 rdieter (I'll do the updating of comps) Aug 28 18:17:00 rdieter otherwise, kde3-wise, we're still in good shape. not much churning going on there. Aug 28 18:17:51 rdieter svahl: what does "Increasing number: 19" represent exactly? Aug 28 18:18:03 svahl it's my local versioning Aug 28 18:18:06 rdieter ah Aug 28 18:18:13 svahl atm I'm respinning number 2 Aug 28 18:18:16 svahl 20 Aug 28 18:18:56 rdieter hrm... gtk+ is getting included, do you know what's pulling that in? Aug 28 18:19:11 svahl mhh. maybe xmms-libs Aug 28 18:19:31 rdieter xmms-libs and imlib Aug 28 18:19:35 drago01 system-config-* ? Aug 28 18:20:05 drago01 err nvm Aug 28 18:20:14 drago01 you mean gtk+ not gtk2 Aug 28 18:20:18 rdieter yes Aug 28 18:20:24 rdieter glib/gtk+ (1.x) Aug 28 18:20:34 rdieter we could work to get rid of those. Aug 28 18:21:07 svahl yeah. would be great. This should affect kdeutils and kdegraphics Aug 28 18:21:43 rdieter libxmms.so.1 is needed by (installed) kdeutils-3.5.7-1.fc7.1.i386 Aug 28 18:21:43 rdieter libxmms.so.1 is needed by (installed) kdenetwork-nowlistening-3.5.7-1.fc7.1.i386 Aug 28 18:21:43 rdieter libImlib.so.11 is needed by (installed) kdegraphics-3.5.7-2.fc7.i386 Aug 28 18:22:07 rdieter oh yeah, libxmms is required by superkaramba, would be a shame not to include that. Aug 28 18:22:33 rdieter I *think* imlib bits could/should be split out of kdegraphics (I *thought* it already was) Aug 28 18:23:12 svahl imlib is only a small package. Maybe it isnt' worth the work Aug 28 18:23:21 rdieter ouch, kdegraphics-3.5.7-2.fc7.i386 includes kuickshow (for some reason?), that's supposed to be in kdegraphics-extras Aug 28 18:23:41 svahl oh Aug 28 18:23:54 rdieter imlib also pulls in glib/gtk+ Aug 28 18:24:14 svahl right. but we still have xmms-libs that does that Aug 28 18:24:45 rdieter so yeah, no point unless we can address both kdegraphics and kdeutils (xmms-libs, imlib) Aug 28 18:24:57 svahl think so Aug 28 18:25:21 svahl I've never used it, but: how superior is speedcrunch to kcalc? because it's the only package requiring qt4 Aug 28 18:25:53 rdieter really? wow. Aug 28 18:27:01 svahl maybe we could save some megs (~8) if we use kcalc again Aug 28 18:27:06 rdieter yeah. Aug 28 18:27:28 rdieter I've answered a *lot* of questions on ml's about that too: "where did kcalc go?" Aug 28 18:28:06 rdieter ok, any opposition to taking speedcrunch out and kcalc back in? Aug 28 18:28:07 svahl yeah. I've read some of them :) Aug 28 18:28:30 rdieter else, we can "just do it" for test2 and see how it goes Aug 28 18:28:37 svahl +1 Aug 28 18:29:02 rdieter ok. any other f8test2 comments? Aug 28 18:29:28 svahl only that is still working like f7 :) Aug 28 18:29:29 rdieter kcalc/speedcrunch can be an item to add to our kde spin release notes. Aug 28 18:29:37 svahl right Aug 28 18:30:07 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting -- Howto for building RPMs for KDE4 from CVS Aug 28 18:30:37 rdieter svahl: good work there. Aug 28 18:30:52 svahl thanks Aug 28 18:31:53 svahl the next days I will try to include the newer packages (kdemultimeda, kdegames,...) Aug 28 18:32:04 rdieter may be worth mentioning that most of these are already pre-built in the kde-redhat repos Aug 28 18:32:19 svahl But somebody should re-read the howto before it gets announced Aug 28 18:32:28 svahl yeah, right Aug 28 18:34:13 rdieter and, the extra stuff about ~/rpmbuild probably is superfluous Aug 28 18:34:32 rdieter one can just: 'make i386' from the cvs checkout Aug 28 18:34:41 rdieter or 'make x86_64' Aug 28 18:35:02 svahl also if someone has not installed koji/plague? Aug 28 18:35:11 rdieter not needed. Aug 28 18:35:18 rdieter (for local builds anyway) Aug 28 18:35:34 svahl ok. I will test this and then make the changes Aug 28 18:35:40 rdieter super, thanks. Aug 28 18:36:07 rdieter the biggest issue left with the current kde4 packages is the conflicts Aug 28 18:36:22 rdieter kdelibs4, in particular, still has a few. Aug 28 18:36:32 svahl than was working on this, right? Aug 28 18:36:54 rdieter right, but he's been down and out for awhile. Aug 28 18:37:13 rdieter I worked on it a bit myself, but it's not done yet Aug 28 18:37:53 rdieter and NOTE (to Kevin's dislike) kdelibs4-devel still explictly Conflicts: kdelibs-devel Aug 28 18:38:25 rdieter due to %_libdir/lib.so soname symlinks, and a few conflicting items in %_bindir Aug 28 18:39:18 rdieter if it were only the symlinks, we could move them elsewhere, but that still leaves %_bindir issue, so I chose to punt on that for now. Aug 28 18:40:22 svahl ok. but it seems we have some time now to fix this :) Aug 28 18:41:28 rdieter anything else on kde4 packaging, cvs? Aug 28 18:41:38 svahl no Aug 28 18:41:55 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: KDE SIG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE -- Meeting -- Free discussion Aug 28 18:42:16 rdieter fedora desktop folks asked me to bring this up... compiz fusion... Aug 28 18:42:37 rdieter compiz fusion needs a "desktop-effects" like thing for kde too. Aug 28 18:43:16 rdieter basically a small app/applet to toggle between: compiz --replace and kwin --replace Aug 28 18:43:33 poelcat rdieter: could someone update this page? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4 Aug 28 18:43:39 rdieter poelcat: certainly Aug 28 18:43:56 poelcat i think it might help clear up some of the confusion about what is/not happening for F8 Aug 28 18:43:59 poelcat thanks :) Aug 28 18:44:03 svahl Kevin seems to have some knowledge in programming. Maybe he is willing to write one (I sadly can't program) Aug 28 18:44:26 rdieter I told them that we were pretty short-handed already, but I thought I'd ask anyway. Aug 28 18:45:32 rdieter My take was that I liked beryl-manager approach, and asked if compiz was going to have something like that too. Aug 28 18:45:49 rdieter sounds like, at least initially, it will not. Aug 28 18:45:57 svahl AFAIR yes. It has also some icon in systray Aug 28 18:46:17 svahl but my last test was some weeks ago Aug 28 18:46:20 rdieter right, they said they were seriously considering omitting that systray icon thingy Aug 28 18:46:36 svahl oh Aug 28 18:47:18 rdieter I guess speaking of that, since compiz-fusion is right around the corner, does it make any sense for us to include beryl in the kde spin now? Aug 28 18:47:39 rdieter I'd lean toward no, but what do other folks think? Aug 28 18:48:03 svahl If compiz-fusion is working fine, we should use that. But it should hit rawhide before Aug 28 18:49:05 svahl (or is it in rawhide already?) Aug 28 18:49:16 rdieter my point being if beryl is 90% likely not to be in f8 final, what's the point of including it in test2? Aug 28 18:49:47 drago01 svahl: current compiz-fusion state: Aug 28 18:50:11 drago01 as I said before we have spilt the compiz-gnome and kde bits into sepearte packages Aug 28 18:50:11 rdieter drago01: thanks. Aug 28 18:50:40 drago01 and updated to the current stable branch with will end into 0.6 in september Aug 28 18:50:47 rdieter does compiz Obsoletes: beryl yet? (if not now, will it?) Aug 28 18:50:48 svahl oh. I've missed that. I will test it this evening and if it works as expected I will replace beryl with compiz on the livecd Aug 28 18:50:56 drago01 rdieter: not yet Aug 28 18:51:18 drago01 compiz-fusion and compiz-fusion.extras have bin submited for review Aug 28 18:51:25 drago01 (the plugins) Aug 28 18:51:41 drago01 the missing parts are the config tools Aug 28 18:52:00 rdieter should I update kde-desktop in comps s/beryl-kde/compiz-kde/ ? Aug 28 18:52:23 svahl (err can't test it, I can't get the nvidia driver to work with 2.6.23) Aug 28 18:52:26 rdieter otoh, lacking config tools, maybe it's not too useful for a live image. Aug 28 18:52:33 drago01 the problem is that instead of using the compiz config they reinvented the wheel and created there own plugins Aug 28 18:52:42 drago01 svahl: there is a patch for this Aug 28 18:53:05 drago01 rdieter: seems like we will get this sorted later so not for test2 Aug 28 18:53:17 drago01 so stick with beryl for now Aug 28 18:53:26 rdieter ok. Aug 28 18:53:56 drago01 the other thing as you remeber the disussion with krh Aug 28 18:54:08 drago01 we need an easy way to switch kwin<>compiz Aug 28 18:54:45 tibbs|h Anyone know if there's hope that krandrtray will support xrandr 1.2 before KDE4? Aug 28 18:54:46 rdieter right, we have no volunteer(s) for that yet, but Kevin_Kofler may be interested/able. Aug 28 18:54:55 svahl ok. beryl will stay on the livecd for test2 Aug 28 18:55:26 rdieter tibbs|h: good question, dunno. Aug 28 18:55:27 drago01 rdieter: ok but he is on vocation right now correct? Aug 28 18:55:31 rdieter drago01: yes Aug 28 18:55:34 drago01 ok Aug 28 18:55:37 drago01 svahl: http://pastebin.ca/673715 Aug 28 18:55:57 drago01 just extract the driver with -x ; patch it; and use ./nvidia-installer Aug 28 18:56:20 tibbs|h It really sucks for me to have to teach people to use the command-line xrandr tool to hook their laptops up to projectors. Aug 28 18:56:50 svahl drago01, thanks Aug 28 18:56:56 drago01 np Aug 28 18:57:21 tibbs|h Looks like there's been some work: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/krandrtray.cpp?view=log Aug 28 18:57:31 rdieter tibbs|h: ah, now it dawns on me why that didn't work for me with my laptop @ akademy either... Aug 28 18:57:35 tibbs|h But I guess that's KDE4 stuff, although I'm not really sure how to tell. Aug 28 18:59:45 rdieter tibbs|h: yeah, trunk is kde4 Aug 28 19:00:16 rdieter well, we're out of time. Aug 28 19:00:29 rdieter FPC should be kicking us out any minute. Aug 28 19:00:32 rdieter thanks all. Aug 28 19:00:55 * abadger1999 wonders if rdieter will kick himself and then let himself back in Aug 28 19:00:57 abadger1999 "-) Aug 28 19:00:58 rdieter svahl, could you grab/post the log please? Aug 28 19:01:19 tibbs|h rdieter: Ah, http://www.rallyzeiros.com.br/wordpress/ says he's backporting to KDE3. Aug 28 19:01:29 svahl rdieter, sure. I will also write the summary later this evening Aug 28 19:01:32 rdieter tibbs|h: thanks, I'll keep an eye on that. Aug 28 19:01:56 tibbs|h If it's easy to patch in, it would be great to be able to try it out. Aug 28 19:01:58 * rdieter hat das Thema geändert zu: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Aug 28 19:02:07 * rdieter kicks himself out Aug 28 19:02:17 * rdieter takes off KDE SIG hat, puts on FPC hat Aug 28 19:02:20 * rdieter comes back in