Okt 09 18:01:14 * XulChris is present today Okt 09 18:01:35 ok, let's get things started... Okt 09 18:02:00 LeeJoseph is here Okt 09 18:02:20 --- rdieter hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings - Init Okt 09 18:02:44 Looks like we don't have much of an agenda today, oh well, anyone else present? Okt 09 18:02:53 Kevin_Kofler, than? Okt 09 18:03:03 Present. Okt 09 18:04:30 --- rdieter hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings - Agenda/topics Okt 09 18:04:49 ok, like I said, not much of an agenda yet, what do folks want to discuss today? Okt 09 18:04:52 just a note, one of my packages supposedly is having problems with qt-4.3.2, im not sure whats the latest in rawhide these days? Okt 09 18:05:03 qt-4.3.2 Okt 09 18:05:06 hrm Okt 09 18:05:33 qt-4.3.2 is in updates-testing for F-7 too Okt 09 18:05:43 what package? Okt 09 18:05:43 hrm Okt 09 18:05:56 bz? Okt 09 18:06:00 its not in an official fedora repo Okt 09 18:06:05 its on dribble Okt 09 18:06:11 which will be merged with rpmfusion Okt 09 18:06:20 but its a qt based frontend for an emulator Okt 09 18:06:21 ok, gimme a pointer later, and I'll give it a quick look. Okt 09 18:06:36 i just have a mailing list message, let me see if i can find a link Okt 09 18:07:21 * rdieter was hoping than would be here today, need to grill him on qt/sip/PyQt comaint requests Okt 09 18:07:40 grr sf is only showing messages from last month Okt 09 18:07:58 I'd like to bring up a topic/project when that's done. Okt 09 18:07:58 --> fab (n=bellet@bellet.info) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 09 18:08:03 but apparently there is some kind of slowdown with qt-4.3.2 which doesnt occur with 4.3.1 Okt 09 18:08:29 CyberSpy: go ahead, we're still in the "soliciting a list" stage at this point. Okt 09 18:08:49 rdieter: can we hold off on pushing 4.3.2 on F-7 for now? Okt 09 18:08:58 XulChris: sure, np. Okt 09 18:09:01 ill keep you informed as soon as i hear anything Okt 09 18:09:11 Ok, you know how there is the "Universal Theme" project on the wiki? (So KDE and Gnome installs look universal) Okt 09 18:09:41 XulChris: or add comment to https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F7/FEDORA-2007-2410 Okt 09 18:09:46 Well, I think that same approach should be taken to other components of Fedora Okt 09 18:09:53 i.e: Okt 09 18:10:07 Note that we'll need 4.3.2 for full kdeprint functionality in 4.0 Beta 3. Okt 09 18:10:09 CyberSpy: "Universal Theme"? Okt 09 18:10:25 fedora-art universal theme Okt 09 18:10:28 rdieter: same look and feel for both GNOME and KDE Okt 09 18:10:29 it's a project they have Okt 09 18:10:40 rdieter: aka porting Nodoka to KDE Okt 09 18:10:53 mether: been there done that (Bluecurve), didn't work out all that well. Okt 09 18:11:07 Well, there are so many disadvantages associated with KDE on Fedora and I think some of the core functionality should be univesal Okt 09 18:11:09 for example Okt 09 18:11:14 rdieter: lot has changed since then Okt 09 18:11:16 maybe Nodoka can be done better. Okt 09 18:11:17 Shrug, we already have a universal theme: Bluecurve. And my Quarticurve port for Qt/KDE 4. Okt 09 18:11:28 --> tibbs|h (n=tibbs@fedora/tibbs) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 09 18:11:31 <-- EvilBob hat sich getrennt (Remote closed the connection) Okt 09 18:11:35 not very useful unless it is the default theme Okt 09 18:11:37 But yes, having Nodoka available everywhere would be nice. Okt 09 18:11:38 update notifier, doesn't work if you don't use Gnome Okt 09 18:11:57 CyberSpy: pup? should work fine. Okt 09 18:12:08 If you don't install Gnome and only install KDE from Anaconda, KDM isn't the default Okt 09 18:12:15 <-- tibbs_ hat sich getrennt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Okt 09 18:12:30 There should be QT counterparts for all of the gtk system-config-*** apps Okt 09 18:12:31 CyberSpy: pup works fine here on KDE Okt 09 18:12:32 things like that Okt 09 18:12:51 CyberSpy: qt system-config-* apps, I disagree. *Lots* of work, little gain. Okt 09 18:12:57 mether, those desktop pop-ups never work for me, I'll look into that Okt 09 18:13:20 CyberSpy: hey, if you see things not working, please bz it. Okt 09 18:13:47 GDM if you select KDE on DVD is a long standing thing. Should be fixable Okt 09 18:13:54 I agree, kde in anaconda should make kdm the default, that's an open issue. Okt 09 18:14:07 mether: jinx! Okt 09 18:14:11 Rex, I planned to, but others have. This is just a small project I want to try and get people involved in Okt 09 18:14:36 CyberSpy: fair nuf, anything else on your mind? Okt 09 18:14:42 It's all of those small things that help with cross de uniformity Okt 09 18:14:50 (desktop environment) Okt 09 18:15:23 For Nodoka, I think we'd need both Qt 3 and 4 versions for the foreseeable future to make it effective as a universal theme. But there also needs to be a commitment from both GNOME and KDE sides not to change the default to a newer theme a few releases later or it will all have been for naught. Okt 09 18:15:41 CyberSpy: Nodoka, pupplet, qt system-config-tools. anything else? Okt 09 18:15:54 I think switching away from Bluecurve was a mistake. Okt 09 18:16:10 But then again I'm about the only one still using it. ;-) Okt 09 18:16:19 hee Okt 09 18:16:35 I had a few others, but the main point focuses on QT counterparts for gtk Fedora components Okt 09 18:16:43 or maybe get more folks to help make gtk-qt-engine better. Okt 09 18:17:16 I think it takes away from the KDE experience on Fedora when the core components are Gnome based Okt 09 18:17:32 But for the record, I agree KDE still having used Bluecurve for a release or two when GNOME switched away from it already was pointless too, a common theme only makes sense if it really is common. ;-) Okt 09 18:17:39 CyberSpy: ok, like I said, lots of work, what's to be gained there? How do using gnome/gtk apps take away from the kde experience? Okt 09 18:18:20 It goes back to uniformity and what fedora-art has talked about regarding a seamless look Okt 09 18:18:31 --> EvilBob (n=bob@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen) hat #Fedora-Meeting betreten Okt 09 18:18:43 --> spoleeba (n=one@fedora/Jef) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 09 18:18:45 CyberSpy: won't a common theme (Nodoka or gtk-qt-engine) adress that? Okt 09 18:19:29 To some degree, yes, but there is so much still lacking, like after 7 releases KDM not being a default login manager if you don't install Gnome Okt 09 18:19:38 --- rdieter hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings - DE uniformity (whatever that means) Okt 09 18:19:50 That has nothing to do with the system-config tools. Okt 09 18:20:03 CyberSpy: got the kdm thing, and we can all agree with that. What else? Okt 09 18:20:14 That's about it Okt 09 18:20:40 ok, thanks. I have an idea on gdm, should be fixable in comps Okt 09 18:20:47 I'll look into why I don't get update alerts on my KDE desktops, it could be on my end Okt 09 18:20:57 Always defaulting to GDM was an intentional decision at one point, but I think the circumstances changed. Okt 09 18:21:00 But it's fine with Gnome Okt 09 18:21:19 Some old release notes talk about it. Okt 09 18:21:19 CyberSpy: I *think* we don't have puplet autostart in the kde spin, that may be part of the problem (I'll have to double-check that) Okt 09 18:21:29 That was in early Fedora or even late RHL times. Okt 09 18:22:06 I never use the kde spin, always the dvd Okt 09 18:22:20 CyberSpy: sorry, I meant the default kde-settings. Okt 09 18:22:37 which are used when kde is installed from any spin. Okt 09 18:23:17 now that puplet actually works pretty well, it should definitely be there. Okt 09 18:23:41 Is the strange autohiding bug resolved yet? Okt 09 18:24:09 Kevin_Kofler: supposedly, but the fix, afaik, is only in rawhide/f8, not backported to F-7 (yet). Okt 09 18:24:47 if anybody wants to travel to India and do a KDE talk, see http://foss.in Okt 09 18:25:10 they sponsor travel in a limited fashion Okt 09 18:25:30 mether: if the wife wouldn't strangle me, I'd probably consider it. :) Okt 09 18:26:00 08-Oct-2007 Due date for abstracts/proposals (No submissions after this date) Okt 09 18:26:15 ?? oh well. Okt 09 18:27:04 anything else on "DE uniformity" topic? Okt 09 18:27:39 No, I'll just take some screenshots and show you what I mean about some apps not looking right, I'm done on that topic Okt 09 18:27:41 I'm still trying to track down the old release notes where they mentioned that they made GDM the default for everything. Okt 09 18:28:16 --- rdieter hat das Thema geändert auf: KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings - open discussion Okt 09 18:28:24 CyberSpy: thanks Okt 09 18:28:33 No problem Rex, thank you Okt 09 18:28:55 <-- nphilipp hat sich getrennt ("Leaving") Okt 09 18:28:57 rdieter: any news on removing onlyshowins being used on kde desktop files? Okt 09 18:28:57 https://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-8.0-Manual/release-notes/x86/ - There we have it. Okt 09 18:29:15 rdieter: the date has been extended. you still got a few days left Okt 09 18:29:19 That was an intentional decision back in RHL 8 times, it has carried over all the way to Fedora 7. Okt 09 18:29:27 XulChris: we've been systematically squashing them all. Okt 09 18:29:32 mether: thanks Okt 09 18:29:47 nice Okt 09 18:29:48 It was done back when RHL was in "unify desktops" mode. Okt 09 18:29:56 XulChris: if you see any left over, please bz. Okt 09 18:30:14 rdieter: oct 20th but you got to also submit your presentations by then so earlier is better. tom or day after tom would be good Okt 09 18:30:36 I think we need to get the (GNOME) Desktop Team folks to squash their OnlyShowIns now. Okt 09 18:30:59 rdieter: forwarded a mail with more details Okt 09 18:31:03 Kevin_Kofler: sure, it goes both ways (along with Name/GenericName, but let's not go there now) Okt 09 18:32:35 Rex any way to get you to give up kasablanca in favor of kftpgrabber? Okt 09 18:34:03 bribery always works. Beer at next FUDCon? :) Okt 09 18:34:17 lol sounds good Okt 09 18:34:39 never used kftpgrabber before. I take it you think it's better? Okt 09 18:34:53 --> llaumgui (n=llaumgui@cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net) hat #fedora-meeting betreten Okt 09 18:35:00 It's much better, it's also in kde extra gear, and it's still being maintained Okt 09 18:35:13 worksforme. Okt 09 18:35:23 The features are far superior, including fxp Okt 09 18:35:25 http://www.kftp.org/ Okt 09 18:35:43 any objections to swapping in kftpgrabber as default in kde-desktop comps? Okt 09 18:36:24 No, CyberSpy's arguments make sense. Okt 09 18:36:33 tho, arguably, it may be a bit late doing this post test3. Okt 09 18:36:41 So I'd say go ahead. Okt 09 18:36:43 no comment, i still use console based ftp clients ;-) Okt 09 18:36:49 It's also already has a fork for QT4/KDE4 Okt 09 18:37:01 ok, consider it done. Okt 09 18:37:11 Thanks Rex Okt 09 18:37:11 I use Krusader for all that stuff, does local file management too, and also SFTP. Okt 09 18:37:42 hmm... kasalbanca was already optional (ie, not default). ?? Okt 09 18:37:54 kftpgrabber isn't in comps at all! Okt 09 18:38:01 doh Okt 09 18:38:22 I mentioned that a while back, but never stayed on top of it Okt 09 18:38:39 it's (usually) the pkg maintainers job to add their pkg to comps Okt 09 18:39:18 A long time ago I asked you for a how-to on making rpm's and being a maintainer (for that app) Okt 09 18:39:37 'trasher' owns kftpgrabber, is that you? Okt 09 18:39:44 no Okt 09 18:40:04 I don't know them, not that it matters, it's a good app. Okt 09 18:43:02 kftpgrabber added to comps-f8 Okt 09 18:43:17 awesome Okt 09 18:43:18 anything else to discuss today? Okt 09 18:44:03 i have nothing more Okt 09 18:44:20 rdieter: do we have krandr? Okt 09 18:44:32 I don't have anything either, but I still wish to get more active in the kde sig Okt 09 18:45:27 kbfx would be nice to have Okt 09 18:45:39 CyberSpy: great, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE#head-975c84ba88ed32e3fa78f2d66b7cf52d3148f79e for some suggestions on how to help out. Okt 09 18:45:55 thm: pkg request? what is it? Okt 09 18:45:56 rdieter: I'm there now Okt 09 18:46:31 CyberSpy: and don't let the list limit you, if you've got other ideas what we all can do, share them. Okt 09 18:46:48 I'm already reviewing and testing, I really need a how-to on rpms so I can package some things Okt 09 18:47:05 rdieter: an alternative to the default k-menu Okt 09 18:47:09 And I'll try and help with the documentation equivilent Okt 09 18:47:54 thm: ping ivazquez about that, i think he has a draft wiki which is very helpful to learn how to package an rpm Okt 09 18:47:57 thm: find someone to submit it for review, and we can help make it happen. Okt 09 18:48:00 Yea, kbfx is nice, just never works for me, or my menu never looks right Okt 09 18:48:11 er CyberSpy not thm Okt 09 18:48:43 rdieter: maybe trying to do it myself Okt 09 18:48:44 XulChris: ok Okt 09 18:48:55 thm: that works! :) Okt 09 18:49:17 crazy idea. making yast work in Fedora Okt 09 18:49:19 http://oss.oracle.com/projects/yast/ Okt 09 18:49:50 Oh dear, no! Okt 09 18:50:12 YaST causes more problems than it solves. Okt 09 18:50:26 when did you last work with it? Okt 09 18:50:33 it works on EL4 work Okt 09 18:50:50 http://oss.oracle.com/projects/yast/files/el4/20070117/ Okt 09 18:51:28 I've read about all the technical issues with it, like trashing hand-edited config files because it does everything from a central database instead of trying to work with existing config files like (most of) the Fedora system-config tools. Okt 09 18:51:52 i think you are relaying old news Okt 09 18:52:06 anyway it is an idea if you want QT based tools Okt 09 18:52:11 <-- shadowarts hat sich getrennt (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Okt 09 18:52:18 it also has a GTK version recently Okt 09 18:52:41 try it out and see if there is any value in there of if still has any problems Okt 09 18:53:18 there might be specific modules you can take advantage of Okt 09 18:54:41 guidance can give some qt-specific bits too, but it needs a lot of love to make work right. Okt 09 18:55:30 yast looks more easily portable following oracle's work on that Okt 09 18:56:06 If you need to get in touch with the Novell folks, I can help Okt 09 18:56:54 smolt is in opensuse 10.3 after i prodded them Okt 09 18:57:01 nice. Okt 09 18:57:43 we have some interest from the Ubuntu and Mandriva folks. still talking Okt 09 18:58:22 oh my, yast has like a bazillion src.rpm's. Okt 09 18:58:42 http://oss.oracle.com/projects/yast/files/el4/20070117/src/ Okt 09 18:58:59 maybe we can get them to maintain these within fedora. Okt 09 18:59:05 lot of modules Okt 09 18:59:07 fedora + epel Okt 09 18:59:09 you dont need most of them Okt 09 18:59:49 nod Okt 09 19:00:01 well, we're out of time for today, thanks all. Okt 09 19:00:18 yep. bye