[Di Jan 15 2008] [17:01:29] hi all, kde sig meeting about to start here, who's present today? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:01:34] Present. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:01:46] present [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:02:27] present [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:03:22] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-15 -- feedback on kde-4.0.0 live image". [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:03:38] present [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:03:58] ok, topic 1: kde-4.0.0 live image feedback, see also https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2008-January/msg00145.html [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:00] than: hi! [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:01] present [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:09] My feedback will be short: I didn't have the time to test it other than confirming that https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427383 still exists. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:32] the best feedback was given by Andre Parker: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2008-January/msg01754.html [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:42] So I'd have to reboot my main machine into it to test it any further (neither QEMU nor my laptop works due to this) and I didn't get around to it yet. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:48] Kevin_Kofler: confirmed by dgilmore at FUDCon too. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:04:52] we should verify which problems should be bugged upstream and which one in bugzilla [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:05:40] svahl: +1, definitely. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:05:54] rdieter: i upgraded to rawhide. and found that enabling desktop-effects on gnome works fine [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:06:07] rdieter: but in KDE it breaks horribly [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:06:17] This was also reported on one of the Planet KDE blogs, so I suspect it's not specific to our experimental X11, unless they happened to also use that. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:07:00] I can only guess the VESA driver was always screwed up with respect to ARGB visuals (which is what Plasma is using). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:07:00] (and still is) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:07:18] as an aside, I was planning on putting up a torrent of the kde-4.0.0 livecd svahl produced later today. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:07:35] anyone else have a chance to try it out? (or are running rawhide)? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:07:57] rdieter: im running rawhide [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:01] fwiw, I'm rawhide on my lappy now, happy happy (after de-installing qt-4.4tp1 that is). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:07] visual effects in rawhide work fine! [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:27] rdieter: yours is intel chipset right? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:35] dgilmore: yes [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:36] fengshaun: what chipset do you have? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:39] fengshaun: In KWin? Or in something else? (Compiz?) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:40] i cannot because I have only nvidia cards [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:43] intel i386 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:57] &* [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:08:57] mine is intel x86_64 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:09:07] i386 is the CPU [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:09:08] We need to know the GPU. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:09:23] intel accelerator [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:09:27] dgilmore: I think our machines are almost identical (dell latitude d620?) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:09:56] mine is a Dell latitude D820 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:04] rdieter: so mines just a bit bigger [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:23] side question, I have intel graphics, what's the simplest way to force X to use the vesa driver anyway? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:26] fengshaun: in /sbin/lspci what does it say [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:38] rdieter: fbdev=vesa? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:44] xdriver=vesa [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:10:57] dgilmore: I'm not on my laptop unfortunately [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:11:14] thx, I'll try those suggestions after the meeting. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:11:14] That's what I used on my laptop because with the native s3virge driver it didn't even get that far (libpciaccess fallout). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:11:21] xdriver=vesa should also work on the livecd [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:11:37] svahl: It does (except for the crash, that is ;-) ). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:13:26] mhh. vesa driver seems to work here in my testinstallation (gf4mx420) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:13:26] Kevin_Kofler: do we have a test matrix ? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:13:38] * dgilmore would like to know what needs testing [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:14:03] svahl: Weird, both on my laptop and in QEMU I get the same effect. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:14:18] I haven't tried using xdriver=vesa on my main machine yet. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:14:54] only edited the xorg.conf. But in some of my tests I've also used this with vmware and it was also working [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:15:27] setting up a test matrix would be a good idea [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:15:41] vmware has its own driver in the distro [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:15:51] xorg-x11-drv-vmware [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:16:00] which isn't working (here). So I've used vesa [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:16:36] ok [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:16:43] Probably the same libpciaccess issue which kills s3virge. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:16:58] The drivers are simply not ported yet. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:18:30] But why does VESA only fail on some configurations? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:18:43] Maybe it's only incomplete (QEMU) or ancient (my laptop) VESA implementations which cause problems? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:19:03] maybe, we'll likely need input from ajax sooner or later. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:19:17] Kevin_Kofler: not sure i can try the cd later and try force it to use vesa [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:19:28] i need to update my rawhide desktop [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:19:37] The backtrace I got in the Xorg.0.log appears to be entirely useless in any case. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:20:26] I have a few bugs im going to file for things ive found so far [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:20:49] can we move on (for now, we can hit this more at the end if we have time)...? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:20:51] I think in some ways im getting confused between KDE3 and KDE4 thinsg [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:21:21] dgilmore: please also add them to the tracker bug: #421891 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:21:57] btw: so far there appeared only one new bug after the cd was released: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428534 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:23:21] svahl: I think I may have a box like that around here. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:23:52] (and optiplex 270sx) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:24:35] great :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:24:58] Anything else on the live CD? There's other potentially lengthy stuff to discuss too today. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:25:31] let's move on then... [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:25:33] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-15 -- preparing for Fedora 9 Alpha". [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:25:40] just fyi: we've rechead about 350 gigs of traffic since friday [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:25:47] topic 2: preparing for f9 alpha, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:26:10] For those who haven't read f13's message yet: it has been postponed a week. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:26:19] Now the freeze is on Jan 22 and the release on Jan 31. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:27:06] As a reminder, the freeze will not be blocking, Rawhide will be allowed to move on, the default will be for anything built after the freeze not to go into the alpha, but individual packages can be tagged into the alpha. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:28:10] I think we really should get kde-l10n/kde-i18n sorted out by Jan 22. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:28:22] +1 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:28:30] We have to build the KDE 4 ones and remove the conflicting KDE 3 ones (while keeping the KDE 3 ones which don't conflict). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:28:50] Well, we may have to remove a few of the KDE 4 ones too, e.g. kdewebdev. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:29:10] We ship all of kdewebdev from KDE 3 because KDE 4 kdewebdev is missing too many things (no Quanta!). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:29:11] Kevin_Kofler: oh, I guess I had naively hoped than had already done that. than? can you work on that or need help? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:32:15] well, if than's not up to it, any other volunteers to (help) work on that? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:33:25] rdieter: i will take care of it [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:33:51] than: Great, thanks! [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:33:59] than: cool, let us know how it goes and/or if you need any assistance. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:36:13] A few meetings ago we've said that we should evaluate the alternative kmenu as default. But imho this could still wait [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:37:39] IMHO the classic simple menu is easier / more efficient to use. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:38:18] svahl: yeah, my $0.02 so far is that I like the "new" kmenu, the classic one is more familiar, but is no longer configurable, which is what I liked a lot about kde3. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:38:51] Configurability is probably planned. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:39:04] yeah. that's the main problem imho. The alternative menu is some kind scrumbled (eg. not sorted fully alphabetical) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:39:14] The simple menu was implemented in the last minute for 4.0.0, so they only got the basics done. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:39:36] both menus need more polish, obviously. :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:39:37] But Kickoff isn't yet as flexible as it used to be in KDE 3 either (according to the openSUSE folks). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:00] let's move on... [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:08] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-15 -- swfdec is proposed to be installed by default in Gnome spin. What about konqueror? (1)". [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:08] ok. postpone this until kde-4.0.1? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:19] svahl: sure. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:49] see also: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2008-January/msg00075.html [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:40:51] About swfdec, I think first of all we'd need to get that KPart (or both? Do we need the KDE 3 one for anything?) packaged. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:41:09] KParts: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/swfdec/2007-July/000419.html [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:42:08] looks like a worthy addition to fedora certainly, regardless of whether we install it by default. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:42:31] http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=swfdec/swfdec-konqueror.git;a=summary [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:00] Unfortunately, the git repo was only used for a single code drop and then not touched. :-( [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:23] 2007-07-21 Benjamin Otte initial commit of KDE4 code kde4 commit | commitdiff [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:23] 2007-07-21 Benjamin Otte initial commit master commit | commitdiff [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:29] And that's all the changelog. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:47] well, we can add it to our pkg wishlist, see if it's up to pkg review scrutify first. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:43:54] scrutiny even. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:44:02] and go from there. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:44:09] And somehow I doubt the code was perfect when it was imported in July. :-( [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:44:32] so would gnash be an alternative? (I don't use flash myself) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:44:32] nod, and lots of changes to kde sdk from then too. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:45:05] Maybe, but has Klash (the Gnash KPart) been ported to KDE 4 yet? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:45:09] maybe, we'll just have to try 'em both out, and see what works (best). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:45:13] We can't load KDE 3 KParts into KDE 4 Konqueror. :-( [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:46:11] I'd propose we add "finding a flash solution" topic to our F9/kde4 todo list. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:46:36] +1 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:46:37] and leave it at that for now, it's obviously not an insignificant amount of work. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:47:40] not really hard either, but still... [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:47:49] and we're short on time, so let's move on too... [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:47:50] :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:48:05] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-15 -- KDE 4.0.0 at kde-redhat.org: Useful to get testers or too much work?". [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:48:39] subject says it all, building kde-4.0.x for F-8/7 hosted at kde-redhat/unstable repos. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:48:57] I think it would be great to have that. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:49:08] yeah. that's more than a question than a topic. as expected there were many question about installing kde4 in f7/f8 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:49:12] I said recently on the kde-redhat-users mailing list that I'd likely put the work in to make it happen, but not before 4.0.1 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:49:34] You'll probably have to remove Qt 4.4 from there until it gets fixed or we'll confuse users. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:49:45] Kevin_Kofler: +999999 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:50:04] or do y'all think it silly to wait, and just dive in and do it asap? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:50:31] I think most of the "work" will be kicking off builds and waiting them out. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:50:41] for the record (I've also said this in #fedora-kde): rebuilding kde4.fc9 in mock for f8 was quite easy [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:50:42] I had to motivations to wait: 1. shake out more bugs, both packaging and kde ones, 2. I'd have more time later. :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:50:48] Some conditionals have to be changed and that's all. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:08] (And only in the packages with F9+ conditionals.) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:19] btw. is there a release schedule for kde-4.0.1? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:27] or some time frame? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:30] About a month after 4.0.0. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:35] thx [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:51:36] svahl: not yet, but looks like 4ish weeks [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:53:04] ok, ok, I think the people have spoken, and I'll do what I can to deliver. I'll stop waiting, and get to work on delivering kde-4.0.0 to kde-redhat/unstable asap. :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:53:39] and someday, get round to getting a plague instance up and running so others can help me there too. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:54:17] +1 (but this seems not to be easy, like rpmforge discovered) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:54:27] (hint: anyone willing to help me getting plague running, would earn my eternal gratitude). [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:54:56] svahl: I think you mean rpmfusion. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:55:02] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-01-15 -- open discussion". [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:55:04] :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:55:04] oh. sure :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:55:31] ok, in the last few minutes, open floor. any other topics on your minds? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:56:30] I'm thinking about replacing kaffeine on the live images with dragonplayer (at least for the alpha). opinions? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:57:25] svahl: sure (I assume it works and all). :) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:57:33] I'm not sure it's a good idea. On one hand, Dragon Player is KDE 4, on the other hand it doesn't have as many features as Kaffeine. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:58:02] svahl: Kevin_Kofler has a point, let's see how well it works first, get some feedback, and then we can decide. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:58:08] isnt that generally true of KDE 4 on the whole? [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:58:23] Looks like okteta is being reviewed by Michel Salim, by the way. (He hasn't reacted to my latest updated spec yet though.) [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:58:51] Kevin_Kofler: sure. That's a (big) point. on the other hand for comparison: totem also hasn't many of kaffeines features [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:58:53] mether: new, but lacking some features? Yeah, that's a rough characterization how things are now with kde-4.0.0 [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:59:25] rdieter: What's up with the Quarticurve-KWin review? Of the issues you mentioned before the approval, only the package name is left. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:59:39] Kevin_Kofler: we can take care of that one today. [Di Jan 15 2008] [17:59:56] Kevin_Kofler: naming, imo, isn't a blocker. [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:00:29] oh btw, I thought about writing a article on KDE 4 in Red Hat Magazine. If anybody else here is interested in it or want to review it, let me know [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:01:13] mether: thx. [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:01:25] time's up, thx all, KDE SIG meeting end. [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:02:09] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:03:39] mether: count me as interested in helping, review or whatever. [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:04:57] rdieter: ok. I will send you a draft when it is ready. Let me discuss it with the editors firt [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:05:02] first [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:16:48] * dgilmore thinks we need some FAQ's on things [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:17:09] I have some annoyances that ive discovered but which may be intended [Di Jan 15 2008] [18:17:26] for instance can i make the Kmenu bigger?