[Di Mär 11 2008] [17:04:40] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-11 - Init". [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:04:53] KDE SIG Meeting start. Who's present? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:05:17] present [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:06:20] rdieter said on #fedora-kde he'll be present in ~10-15 minutes. I pinged ltinkl on #fedora-kde, not sure if he's available. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:06:25] than: ping? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:07:22] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-11 - PolicyKit integration (#428212)". [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:07:29] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=428212 [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:07:45] Let's start with this one. ltinkl_: Any progress? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:08:04] no, sucked away by other work [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:08:52] Kevin_Kofler: if you want to have a look at it, I'd be more than happy [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:09:02] OK, I'll see what I can do. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:10:14] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-11 - kde-settings and KDE 4". [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:10:41] This is now essentially solved, so I'll sum up what we did: [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:11:11] * KDE 4 wants the profile directory settings in /etc/kde4rc, not /etc/kderc. kde-settings now creates that file. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:12:03] * At first, I did it with a symlink, but KDE 4 doesn't like the userProfileMapFile key (if it actually points to a file, i.e. with kiosktool installed), so rdieter created a new kde4rc without that key. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:12:36] (We're still looking into what exactly causes this, but it's not critical, the paths are the important parts of kde4rc and those work.) [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:13:00] * There's a bug in kdelibs 4.0 where kdeglobals isn't found in the profile directory because of a chicken&egg problem. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:13:52] The kdeglobals paths are set right at the beginning of KConfig, but the KStandardDirs code needs KConfig (in particular, kde4rc) to add the profile directories, so when it adds them, it's too late for KConfig to find kdeglobals in them. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:14:11] So I patched KConfig not to cache the paths to kdeglobals as a quick fix. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:14:26] So now the kde-settings defaults are being honored. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:14:50] Any questions? Or can we move right on? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:15:48] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-11 - last preparations for the beta". [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:16:07] OK, let's move on to this then. Probably the most important topic for today. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:16:38] What still needs to be done for the beta? The freeze was today, now there's a few days for last-minute fixes. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:17:19] is the khelpcenter issue fixed/included in kdebase-runtime? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:17:32] Yes. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:18:31] I'm not aware of other big things then [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:19:27] I have seen some problems that a shutdown from inside kde isn't working all time. But I need to do some further investigations [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:19:48] What's the plan for the qt->qt3, qt4->qt rename? We're currently waiting for the CVS action on qt3. Do we want to get this tagged into the beta? Do we want to build it into dist-f9 ASAP to hit Rawhide after the beta? Do we want to build it into Rawhide after the beta? Do we want to postpone it to F10 (hopefully not!)? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:20:42] IMHO we should give the packagers some more time to fix their specs. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:20:58] That's not really an option. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:21:01] so I would say we postbone it to after the beta [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:21:08] We don't have that much time until F9. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:21:21] They'll notice if things fail to build. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:21:35] Runtime dependencies should hopefully not be much of a problem. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:21:49] kdelibs3 and kdevelop needs fixing, but those are our packages. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:23:16] what would be the problems if we wait a week? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:23:37] Some of the dependencies can only be fixed once the new version hits. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:23:46] E.g. qt-designer doesn't currently Provide qt3-designer. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:23:57] I could add these Provides now though. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:24:10] here [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:24:33] Still, I think the best thing to do is do the change ASAP. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:24:41] I fully expect packagers to only react after it hits. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:25:03] well, change asap, but don't push for beta tagging is the safest thing, imo. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:25:33] Maybe we should get a qt build with all the Provides into the beta though? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:26:21] I can merge than's latest qt/devel changes into my qt3.spec, then temporarily disable the conditional for the qt3 naming, leaving only the Provides there. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:26:29] Kevin_Kofler: nod [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:26:54] OK, will do right after the meeting. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:26:56] Provides should go in asap. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:28:18] We currently have Provides for qt3 and qt3-devel, the changes I'll commit after the meeting will add the others. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:29:33] Anything else for the beta? What about that KDM SELinux issue? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:29:51] bz? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:29:55] I hope we can get an answer to my question from dwalsh. I really don't know how to fix this. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:30:05] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=421951 [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:30:36] hm. I ran in targetted/enforcing mode for awhile, didn't see any problems. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:30:39] I tracked down the code which is most likely what SELinux doesn't like, but I don't know how to fix it. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:32:04] confirmed, login worksforme. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:32:49] Kevin_Kofler: as you noted on examining the code, it could likely be made more selinux-friendly. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:33:46] oh, icky stuff may happen logging in as root tho. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:34:25] Well, KDM itself always runs as root. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:34:45] So I'd expect KDM to always trigger this problem regardless of what user you log in as. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:35:04] I don't understand why it doesn't behave the same for everyone. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:35:18] shrug, the problem doesn't seem to prevent logins (anymore) at least. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:35:29] svahl, have you seen this recently? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:35:35] or anyone for that matter? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:35:52] not on the live images. But I have seen some setroubleshoot warnings related to kdm.log [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:36:14] I believe failing access(2) checks are marked dontaudit in SELinux, so as a regular user this won't be a problem. But code running as root will trigger an access(2) which will report a writable file, but which SELinux doesn't want the code to write to because it's in /usr. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:36:26] And so SELinux will whine about those. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:36:48] At least that's my understanding. I'm far from an expert in SELinux, I always have it disabled (completely, not even permissive). [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:36:51] ok, if it's just down to warnings without visible adverse effects, we can lower the priority about worrying about it. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:37:26] it's still worth fixing, just not a blocker anymore. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:37:58] svahl: Is this still blocking logins or only spewing warnings? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:38:04] warnings [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:38:09] only [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:38:30] OK. I'm pretty sure the warning is about the access(2) tests in /usr, which SELinux doesn't like. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:38:36] But I don't know how to fix it. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:38:54] I hope Dan Walsh will have some libselinux code to offer to do this in a SELinux-safe way. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:40:46] Anything else for the beta? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:41:22] knetworkmanger-0.7 [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:41:46] Oh yes, that one... fun... [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:42:01] current svn checkouts are busted. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:42:19] Yet again, sigh... [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:42:41] Somehow I'm feeling this won't even be an option before F10. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:42:42] I'm of a mind to simply EOL knetworkmanger until it can be shown to build/work again. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:42:47] hey all [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:43:17] rdieter: as am I [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:43:19] The facade of knetworkmanger masqerading as nm-applet has got to stop. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:43:31] Yes, I'm no longer convinced this is a good idea. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:43:31] I wish i had the time code on it but i dont [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:43:58] I put it forward assuming that quickly knetworkmanager would catch up [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:05] We don't really want to automatically upgrade users to it after all. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:05] * dgilmore was wrong [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:22] It just doesn't have the features nm-applet has. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:25] there is only one person coding on it and he is a student that was a intern at SuSE [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:36] Kevin_Kofler: it doesnt work [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:43] any objections to knetworkmanger EOL? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:44:58] it wont autoconnect to a wired network without configuration [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:45:05] It's just busted right now, but even if it gets fixed, it still won't have the features nm-applet has. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:45:27] someone should probably writeup a fedora/knetworkmanger FAQ wiki page to outline our position, and how/why this decesion was reached. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:45:28] So I think we should have the live CD use nm-applet directly, without the current dummy package. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:45:39] Kevin_Kofler: +1 [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:45:43] +1 [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:02] im good with that [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:06] Then we could push a knetworkmanager to F9 later as an alternative option once it's at least somehow usable without breaking the setup for those who rely on the features only nm-applet has. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:22] F8 will probably just have to stay with the current setup forever. :-( [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:23] dgilmore: you willing to document the state of affairs in an FAQ of sorts? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:34] rdieter: sure [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:46:49] send to fedora-devel@ ? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:47:14] dgilmore: and on a wiki somewhere that we can reference easily, if that's ok. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:47:24] rdieter: sure [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:48:23] and then do the usual package EOL procedure, asap, we don't want this in f9-beta. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:49:12] so will we include NetworkManager-gnome in @kde-desktop or should I include it directly on the live images? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:49:31] hmm.. good question, I'd lean toward the latter. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:50:14] I guess it depends on whether nm is going to be default setup for f9 or not. If yes, then @kde-desktop may make more sense. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:50:38] I also have a plan how we could sanitize the F8 situation: rename the dummy package to kde-settings-nm-applet, with proper Obsoletes in place, then we could introduce an actual knetworkmanager as an option which won't be automatically migrated to in a few months, if it gets usable before F8 EOL, that is. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:50:54] AFAIR the default configuration already depends on a running NetworkManager. But I may be wrong [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:51:09] Kevin_Kofler: sounds reasonable, we can ponder on that. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:51:36] (The idea being that we don't want to automatically replace nm-applet with a knetworkmanager with much fewer features.) [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:53:02] svahl: just include it directly on the live images for now, we can sort out the NM-default-or-not details later. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:53:20] ok [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:55:20] Topic Kevin_Kofler setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-11 - release notes". [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:55:38] This is the last item on the agenda. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:55:43] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Beta/ReleaseNotes [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:56:03] * rdieter waits on the wiki to load... [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:56:15] usual question at this time. :) Is there anything to add? Maybe the khelpcenter for kde3 apps issue? [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:56:21] The one-page release notes already contain the most important stuff. I think we should concentrate on the beats. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:56:45] The deadline for the F9 Preview beats is this week already. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:57:27] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:57:36] There's huge delays due to translation. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:57:58] The one-page notes for the alpha and the beta aren't translated, that's why they don't have that delay. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:59:06] Kevin_Kofler++ ... Get that content in now! :-) [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:59:45] I'll write the beats ASAP, definitely before the preview relnotes freeze. [Di Mär 11 2008] [17:59:55] (The KDE-related ones only, of course. ;-) ) [Di Mär 11 2008] [18:00:34] Kevin_Kofler: thx