[10:01] Time for the KDE SIG meeting... [10:01] right. rdieter, than? [10:02] yo. [10:03] I'm here! [10:03] Than will almost certainly not be in the meeting, he mailed us he has another meeting right now today. [10:03] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-12-04 -- Init". [10:04] ok, let's get going on the agenda then... [10:04] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-12-04 -- kde4 in rawhide, progress". [10:04] well, the deed is done, kdebase-workspace is now in rawhide. [10:05] Kevin_Kofler and than have been working to fixup kdm issues [10:05] unfortunately, due to rawhide openssl/openldap breakage, package builds are stalled until that all gets sorted out. [10:06] any other updates, comments? [10:06] I'm not sure Than's latest change to kdmrc is necessary, if they are, it's a KDE bug to report upstream. [10:06] He set the theme to circles explicitly, but that is supposed to be the default. [10:07] If that doesn't work, we need to get it fixed upstream. [10:07] Kevin_Kofler: yeah, I was wondering why he did that. [10:08] I'm looking at the diff now, I see he also set UserList to false, but circles in KDE 4 is supposed to have a rectangle for the user list (I looked at the XML), there too, if it doesn't work, we have to get it fixed. [10:09] that reminds me that we need to get kde-settings into hosted.fedoraproject.org, so we have a proper scm for it. [10:09] That, and both than and me need to get better at explaining why we did some changes, not just that we did them. [10:10] nod [10:12] I updated comps-f9 kde-desktop group a bit this morning, mostly just s/kdebase/kdebase-workspace/ [10:13] and work can continue to import the rest of kde4 modules (ie, kdegraphics, kdenetwork, kdemultimedia...) [10:14] and reviewing new pkgs (e.g. extragear-plasma) [10:14] I've submitted extragear-plasma for review yesterday: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=409401 [10:14] Bug 409401: medium, medium, ---, Nobody's working on this, feel free to take it, NEW , Review Request: extragear-plasma - Additional plasmoids for KDE [10:14] For kdemultimedia, I think we really need a kdemultimedia3 (including all the aRts badness that drags in). :-( [10:15] For one, there's packages BRing it (taxipilot at least). [10:15] And secondly, look at the list of stuff that's missing in kdemultimedia4. [10:15] "no kmid, kaboodle, noatun, krec, kaudiocreator and of course none of the arts stuff" [10:16] We can do without kaboodle and noatun (there's other players, e.g. juk is already ported), but I think at least kmid, krec and kaudiocreator will be missed. [10:16] Kevin_Kofler: I don't mind most of that going away... [10:17] Kevin_Kofler: kdemm arts support, likely we'll want to keep that, sure. [10:17] Kevin_Kofler: any idea who/why taxipilot BR's kdemm? [10:18] What do you suggest using instead of KMid? The Timidity GUI directly? And what if you have a hardware sequencer or want to use one of the other software sequencers which have recently popped up in the Fedora collection? [10:18] Kevin_Kofler: we can't keep the cruft forever. [10:19] but if we're making a kdemm3 pkg already, wouldn't be hard to include those extra (non-conflicting bits). [10:19] KMid won't be dead forever. :-) [10:19] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/kmid/ [10:20] If it works already, we could package that version. [10:20] what kind of userbase does kde(3) kmid have? [10:20] But I don't know what state is in, extragear isn't forced to the release cycle of 4.0. [10:20] kaudiocreator is also there: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/multimedia/kaudiocreator/ [10:21] I guess KRec is just dead, it relied a lot on aRts. [10:21] People who used that will have to use Audacity or something else. (Does PA provide a recording tool too, BTW?) [10:21] anyway, we're going offtopic a bit, I guess I don't mind including those. [10:22] I'll see about whipping up a kdemm3 compat pkg [10:22] I'd say, if we're doing a kdemultimedia3, keep at least kmid and kaudiocreator until the versions in extragear are ready. [10:22] including artsplugins, kmid, krec, kaudiocreator [10:22] For krec, we can keep it too, but once (if?) we drop kdemultimedia3, it'll be gone for good. [10:23] yep [10:23] afaict, taxipilot doesn't actually need kdemm [10:24] Let's ask Hans to drop it and see what happens then. [10:24] i'm checking now. [10:24] That'll be one less thing to worry about. [10:25] another sticky issue will be kdepim (kmail/kontact). [10:26] I'll see about packaging kmid and kaudiocreator from extragear, if these actually work, we can do without a kdemultimedia3. [10:26] That's unless there's lots of packages BRing it out of nowhere. [10:27] Next: kdeadmin. There, kdat and ksysv are in SVN, but aren't built for some reason (not building yet or whatever). [10:28] yeah, I think texipilot is ok without kdemm [10:28] I think we can do without ksysv, that's what system-config-services is for. ;-) [10:28] yeah, with system-config-*, most of kdeadmin is superfluous [10:28] kdat is a backup tool (mainly a tar frontend), probably not essential either. [10:29] how about this, I'm uncomfortable trying to preserve every kde3 app, why not just do this: [10:29] These are all the real problems anyway. [10:29] Unless Kopete doesn't get fixed for 4.0. ;-) [10:30] import the main kde4 modules, and then see how it goes? [10:30] completely move to KDE4 and wait for KDE 4.1 to be released? :P [10:30] ("kopete doesn't compile atm. So it's disabled for now.") [10:30] kdewebdev isn't even being shipped in the tarball sets, which makes sense entirely. (What do you do with a kdewebdev without Quanta? ;-) ) [10:30] and then deal with individual *important* apps, on a case-by-case basis. [10:31] So there we obviously keep 3.5 until 4.1. [10:31] what counts as important? kmail, kopete count certainly [10:31] Kevin_Kofler: What? I use Quanta all the time? Won't it be included? [10:31] ljuwiadah: It's not ready, so apparently they decided not to ship a kdewebdev in 4.0 at all. [10:31] ljuwiadah: nope, we'll stick with 3.5.x [10:32] rdieter: I think all kontact apps are important [10:32] 4.1 will have Quanta again. [10:32] We'll ship kdewebdev 3.5.x. [10:32] ljuwiadah: I was only giving examples, not providing an exhaustive list of what is "important". :) [10:32] OK, cool :P [10:32] KDevelop is in the same state. [10:33] At least the latest KDevelop 3 has some support for qt4 and cmake. [10:33] Though the one which will come with KDE 4.1 will be better for KDE 4 development, of course. :-) [10:34] svahl: I looked at the kdeaccessibility spec (mainly because it was the first in the alphabet ;-) ), I have 2 comments: [10:34] # Messages from build. Are this packages some maybe missing BRs? [10:34] # -- The KTTSD Epos plugin will be built but the pos executable was not found. [10:34] # -- The KTTSD FreeTTS plugin will be built but the freetts.jar file was not found. [10:34] # -- The KTTSD Hadifix plugin will be built but the txt2pho executable was not found. [10:34] # -- The KTTSD Hadifix plugin will be built but the mbrola executable was not found. [10:34] These are harmless. [10:35] It says it doesn't find some (non-Free?) TTS engines. [10:35] However it's still building the plugins in case they get found at runtime. [10:35] So no BRs needed there at all. [10:35] Second: [10:35] # FIXME/TODO: really exclude this one? [10:35] %exclude %{_kde4_iconsdir}/mono/index.theme [10:36] (I reposted these messages as PMs to svahl_.) [10:36] 24h disconnect :( [10:36] (all of) the mono icon theme should be included, else, it's unusable [10:36] Why is this one (mono/index.theme) being excluded? [10:37] Does it conflict with something? [10:37] As rdieter says, something must provide an index file. [10:38] after the meeting, I'll get to work on kdeaccessibility, kdeartwork import. [10:38] I've excluded it because there were no icons. but maybe I was wrong [10:38] It does not conflict with other packages afaik [10:39] Kevin_Kofler: can you work on importing some kde4 modules too? If so, which ones? (so we don't collide working on the same stuff) [10:41] I'll do kdegraphics and kdesdk. [10:41] cool, thx. [10:41] anything else kde4/rawhide-wise to discuss today? [10:42] kdesdk is important so we get Kate back, there's also the KDE 4 migration scripts in there we should ship somewhere (maybe a separate subpackage which developers can easily pull from Rawhide to earlier dists :-) ). [10:42] For kdegraphics, Okular printing should be fixed now, requires cups-lpr though. [10:42] what are the migration scripts` [10:43] Kevin_Kofler: thx [10:43] (fixed upstream, though maybe not yet in 3.96.2, I can check if it's there and try to backport the patch from SVN if not) [10:44] fwiw, kde4rc2 will be tagged tomorrow. [10:45] Then let's not waste time backporting things (especially not features ;-) ). [10:45] agreed. [10:45] +1 [10:45] move on? [10:46] just a notice: I've started work on the livecd today. I'll check it in git tomorrow or thursday [10:46] svahl_: awesome. [10:46] Cool; I don't have a spare partition to put rawhide on, but I'll definitely test the livecd [10:47] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-12-04 -- recent bugs". [10:47] mefoster: the main problem atm would be the kernel (it's not booting on many machines) [10:47] Ugh, in kdesdk trunk, kompare is currently commented out. :-( [10:47] They say a version from a work branch will replace it. [10:47] But it hasn't happened for 4.0. [10:48] Then, I know kbabel has been replaced by something else, but I can't find the replacement in kdesdk, maybe it's in extragear or something. [10:48] http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/extragear/sdk/kaider/ [10:48] This is it. [10:49] Will be in extragear until 4.1. [10:49] We really need KBabel (or the replacement), I ain't using GNOME's translator, I had bad experience with it :( [10:50] So this makes 3 extragear apps we really want in if possible, so we don't lose functionality: sdk/kaider, multimedia/kmid and multimedia/kaudiocreator. [10:51] On the subject of kaudiocreator, is the issue with having to kill kio_audiocd still there, do you know? [10:51] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135669 [10:51] Bug 135669: medium, medium, ---, Jason Baron, CLOSED ERRATA, tcsendbreak fails in compat mode [10:51] (Ignore bugbot) [10:51] Some of the kdegraphics stuff which used to be in kdegraphics 3 is also sitting in extragear. [10:51] Was ripping CDs over the weekend and had to do the kill thing again. [10:52] this just showed up: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=410651 [10:52] Bug 410651: low, low, ---, Ngo Than, NEW , New flash plugin not working for konqueror [10:52] That's a known problem. [10:52] upstream (kde) issue, though, recent flash-plugin simply doesn't work with konq atm. [10:52] I believe some distro has a hack for that. [10:53] Kevin_Kofler: no solution exists, afaik. [10:53] There might also be a hack upstream queued for 3.5.9 already. [10:53] there's a hack to workaround the gtk_init issue, not konq's lack of XEmbed support.l [10:53] There's a hack for the gtk_init, and that's what's being reported here. [10:54] Kevin_Kofler: fedora's gtk2 is patched (or so I'm told by mclausen) [10:54] Well, you're probably right. [10:54] Darn proprietary software... [10:55] Always causing problems. [10:55] not a recent bug. but we're still waiting for response: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=378041 [10:55] Bug 378041: low, low, ---, David Zeuthen, NEEDINFO , unable to mount removable/ntfs [10:56] *** You set the channel topic to "KDE SIG meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-12-04 -- open discussion". [10:57] [Notify] racor is online (irc.freenode.org). [10:57] well, we're about out of time today, so anything else to discuss? [10:57] For the audiocd://cdparanoia problem, I think the O_EXCL should really be dropped from our cdparanoia, why do you need exclusive access to read a CD? [10:58] Is it documented anywhere why O_EXCL was ever added? [10:58] No, not beyond "- use O_EXCL". [10:58] Kevin_Kofler: yeah, I was wondering the same thing. [10:58] I'd say we should file this bug in RH BZ against cdparanoia. [10:59] I can do that ... [10:59] btw: due to my disconnect someone else has to upload the log. I'll write the summary then [10:59] I can do the log [10:59] thx [11:00] KDE SIG meeting end [11:00] thanks all