[Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:30] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- Init". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:43] OK, let's get started... who's present today? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:48] Present. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:51] present [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:54] Present [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:00:58] Present [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:01:06] than: ping ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:01:29] looks like he might not be around [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:01:56] ping [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:02] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- Agenda". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:20] 1. final prep for f8 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:28] 2. kde bits for Release summary [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:36] 3. status of kde-desktop-effects in f8-final [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:51] 4. prepare for next dev cycle, f9, kde4, all that jazz [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:02:59] anything else to hit today? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:03:56] alrighty, moving on then... [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:04:17] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- final preparations for Fedora 8". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:04:25] maybe only some talks about new contributors (which read my mail from yesterday) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:04:42] good idea! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:04:47] svahl, read [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:04:56] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- new contributors". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:05:04] backup, let's welcome the new folks today. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:05:50] svahl: anything to add? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:06] ! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:21] ljuwaidah: go ahead [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:30] We've had a few people interested in helping out on #fedora-kde earlier today, they're not all present now, probably partly due to timezones and stuff. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:38] not yet. I've also got some private mails. But I think we should wait till next week until we've found some time to prepare eg. the top5 -list [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:52] now I just want to say: Welcome! :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:06:58] merci [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:03] Seconded. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:08] What happened to the list that was discussed last week (svahl)? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:16] Thanks for volunteering! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:21] Oh! :D [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:35] ATM it's the "old" list. I will cull it down this evening [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:07:59] ok, let's forge on then... [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:08:03] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- final preparations for Fedora 8". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:08:31] I think we're good to go, or is there anything urgently to fix? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:08:44] fyi, I'm trouncing a few more multlib/upgrade packaging snafu's this morning, but otherwise, looks good, imo [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:08:55] We only have today, after that it's total freeze, with only a few hours for really critical stuff. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:09:42] (See Jesse's mail to that effect to the fedora-devel-list.) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:09:51] any of you new folks using f8 test releases, or rawhide, with any feedback? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:11] or comments? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:24] Not me... Still using F7 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:38] i'm still trying to get myself some hardware to do proper testing on, i run mythtv on my desktop and it sucks resources [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:47] ok. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:56] move on then? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:58] btw: is the color scheme still the normal plastik? or it is this one? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=295631 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:10:58] I hope the FedoraInfinity KSplash theme works properly, I tested it quickly on my F7 system, but of course what I tested were not the actual final packages. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:11:23] Kevin_Kofler: oh yeah, lemme check quick. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:11:59] isn't in rawhide yet, I'll have to check manually later. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:12:25] ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:12:27] Should be as per the latest Rawhide report, maybe the master mirror is not synced from the real master yet? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:12:45] wait, it is now, upgrading now. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:13:13] includes stigi-libs multilib fix too [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:13:43] we can still move on, I can check it later. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:13:48] ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:14:19] ljuwaidah: we didn't have a FedoraInfinity-themed ksplash yet, but not we do, but it's not tested much/at-all yet [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:14:34] s/not we do/now we do/ [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:14:56] What about the rest of the theme? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:15:11] ljuwaidah: most everthing else is stock Plastik [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:15:23] OK! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:15:51] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- KDE-Bits for the Release Summary". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:16:10] Anything kde-wise worthy for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/ReleaseSummary ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:16:34] maybe the kde-desktop-effects (If we could get it in) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:16:58] and the part about the networkmanager should be enhanced [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:16:59] and kde4 dev platform inclusion [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:17:10] includes stigi-libs multilib fix too [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:17:14] Should I try to create a theme tonight? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:17:21] Actually that's a fix for broken plugins symlinking to nowhere on all arches. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:17:58] ljuwaidah: you're welcome to contribute new themes, but it's too late to get into f8-final. today is the cut-off. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:18:03] There's still a multilib conflict in strigi-devel (strigiconfig.h), Deji will fix that later, I have a fix already. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:18:10] How much time do we have? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:18:31] ljuwaidah: a matter of hours, but adding a new theme isn't worth breaking the development freeze. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:18:42] OK :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:18:52] release-blockers only at this point. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:19:11] we'll accept critical bugfixes until the end of the day (US Eastern time, i.e. whenever Jesse falls asleep) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:19:18] anything after that, we have to delay the release [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:01] wwoods: thanks (fedora QA guy, for the new folks) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:01] And multilib conflicts are normally not release blockers. The strigi-devel one definitely isn't, it has been broken all the time in F7 and nobody complained before the automated mass filing. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:14] I am going to work on it tonight anyways, and see what happens :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:33] naturally you can still work on stuff to be released as F8 updates [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:43] Cool! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:20:51] but things that absolutely have to work in the initial install need to be in tonight [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:21:12] I can try to work on a summary of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Devel/KDE4DevelopmentPlatform to add to the Release summary [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:21:19] * pembo13_com changes location, hope he doesn't get disconnected [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:21:20] ljuwaidah: What kind of theme do you want to get in? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:21:57] There's so many things which can be themed: backgrounds, splash screens, widgets, window managers, ..., some are mostly images, some are mostly code. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:22:16] I can do background, WM, and style... [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:22:28] I'm thinking of Domino for the style [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:22:36] We have Infinity themes for the background, splash screen (KSplash) and login manager (KDM) in F8 already. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:22:46] ad Crystal or deKorator for WM [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:22:50] The widget and WM theme is upstream default. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:23:05] (Plastik) And icons are upstream default (Crystal SVG) too. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:23:23] has there been any effort to automating the packaging of themes? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:23:30] OK, then, style, and WM [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:23:32] the theme should match the default look if we use it as standard theme [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:23:57] but additional themes could went into their own packages [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:24:16] pembo13_com: automation? depends on what you mean exactly, but I think the answer is no [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:24:19] Widget and WM themes matching Nodoka would be interesting. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:24:35] Oh, I can make a color theme too [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:24:55] If they work well, they'll become default almost certainly, given how the artwork folks stand behind Nodoka. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:25:12] Alright :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:25:23] ok, can we move on? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:25:26] But be warned that widget and WM themes are those themes that are mostly code. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:25:48] I know that, thanks :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:25:53] we can hit this other stuff at the end or in #fedora-kde later [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:26:01] rdieter: Yes :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:26:08] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- Status of inclusion of kde-desktop-effects in f8final". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:26:39] afaik, we're (still) waiting on compiz folks to integrate svahl's kde-desktop-effects. confirm/deny? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:26:59] compiz-manager was approved by rel-eng for inclusion. Still no answer from the compiz guys [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:08] That sucks. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:20] as as aside, I added compiz-kde as default in kde-desktop comps group [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:21] It really needs to be in final, not updates, for the live CD. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:33] yeah. that's the problem [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:48] btw: I've created an "urgent" bug to speed things up: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=358501 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:27:57] drago01: ping? you around? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:28:04] rdieter: yes [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:28:06] or maybe get some more attention [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:28:18] drago01: comment here? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:28:45] I am currently trying to ping krh in #xorg-devel [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:28:56] drago01: thanks. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:29:03] np [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:29:42] else, we can request rel-eng superpowers, and go in modify the pkg oursevles if needed [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:29:52] :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:30:07] anything else here? move on? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:30:19] just one question [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:30:32] If it was included, will be enabled by default? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:30:40] no [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:30:44] OK [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:31:02] rdieter: Good to go :P [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:31:18] compiz isn't that stable and even not running on all machines/graphic cards [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:31:18] fwiw, confirmed FedoraIninfity ksplash works as expected [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:31:39] rdieter: got an ok from krh will build an updated compiz package [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:31:52] great :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:32:03] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- Prepare for the next development cycle (F9, kde4, all that jazz)". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:33:10] when is the current expectation of KDE4 ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:33:25] basically, heavy kde4 territory. deciding on which parts of kde3 to keep (kde3 dev environ, runtime at least) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:33:38] pembo13_com: dec 18 (afair) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:33:49] svahl, okay [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:34:05] pembo13_com: a usable for end users is expected between may and october [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:34:27] pusling, was trying to figure out when for the latest i need to get more hardware [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:34:45] fyi, http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.0_Release_Schedule [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:35:22] Beta 4 which was prereleased to packagers should be Rawhide pre-test1 quality. ;-) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:35:27] first kde4 things I have ready right away include kdegames(4), kdeedu(4) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:35:32] That's not a high expectation of quality anyway. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:35:50] * pusling is spying from elsewhere. when is fc9 expected? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:02] May 1 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:04] pusling: releases are every 6 months, approximately on May Day and Halloween [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:07] pusling, 6 months i gues [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:31] note that we're discussing changes to the development cycle for F9 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:34] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ReleaseEngineering/DevelopmentChangesProposal [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:35] rdieter: Can you commit kdegames to devel right now? I have kdegames3 with the unported games ready already. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:58] basically: dropping test1 and having an RC closer to release time [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:36:58] Kevin_Kofler: after I get kde-3.5.8 done for F7, sure. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:37:17] We should be able to get kdegames3/kdegames in as updates to F8 (and maybe also F7?) too. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:37:37] svahl: does kde-desktop-effects require compiz-manager? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:37:44] drago01: yes [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:37:53] so F9 Alpha release would be Jan 17, F9 feature freeze March 4, F9 beta release March 13 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:07] By the time F9 is released it'll be around 5 months since KDE4's release, wouldn't that be enough time for us to package it, test it, and fully remove KDE3? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:13] svahl: ok nm .. did saw it while reviewing your patch .. everything is ok ;) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:23] drago01: ok :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:25] Package it, yes, test it, yes, fully remove KDE 3, hell no! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:32] ljuwaidah: only if fedora wants to be more insane than ubuntu. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:34] The KDE 3 desktop and most kde* modules, of course. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:38] from what i've read/heard i agreee [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:46] pusling: Why? What did ubuntu do? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:56] Kevin_Kofler, do we expect visible KDE changes by F9? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:38:58] But we definitely need kdelibs3 and parts of kdebase3 for apps! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:10] We want to be upgrading: [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:14] * the default desktop and [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:27] pembo13_com: kde desktop will be kde4, very visible (that's the plan anyway) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:27] * most if not all of the application kde* modules to the KDE 4 versions. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:44] rdieter, okay [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:39:47] rdieter: That brings us to the important subject: How do we coordinate the move to KDE 4 as default? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:11] Plus, I thought new technologies are first implemented in Fedora (Check the mailing list) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:13] Kevin_Kofler: coordinate? what do you mean? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:32] other than replacing kdebase-3 with kdebase-4 ? :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:41] ljuwaidah, well, sometimes.. .not always so [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:42] We need to package (based mostly on old pre-split kdebase4) and import kdebase-workspace, we need to change kdelibs/base3/4 naming and we need to switch the removed conflicts from removing KDE 4 files to removing KDE 3 files. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:43] or kdebase-workspace or whatever it ends up [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:40:51] svahl, rdieter, Kevin_Kofler ; http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=220808 can some of you test this once built? so that I don't request tagging for a complely untested package ;) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:01] drago01: can do [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:08] rdieter: ok, thx [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:12] drago01: me too [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:12] At least importing kdebase-workspace and switching over the conflict removals will have to be done mostly together. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:39] The naming is not so urgent, but should eventually be fixed too. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:57] ok this might take some time... buildsys busy [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:41:58] Kevin_Kofler: yeah, it'll be tricky at first, getting all the pkg names, Obsoletes/Requires properly placed. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:42:20] how dare other people try to get their list-minute fixes ahead of *our* last minute fixes? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:42:21] I'm more worried about the rm -f s than about the Obsoletes. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:02] The application modules are mostly independent of that switchover, most of them should be buildable right now. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:07] Kevin_Kofler: a lot of upstream work is being done to minimize conflicts (thanks pusling!), we'll likely get to remove many/most of our current hacks. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:21] svahl: some "cosmetic" change I would prefer removing the ".sh" extension from a file in /usr/bin/ ... its to late now but can we do this after F8 is out? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:25] Some rm's will still have to remain. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:33] drago01: sure [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:43] And kdebase3 will need a lot of purging to keep only the stuff which doesn't conflict. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:49] Kevin_Kofler: yeah, it'll be some hard work. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:55] Don't you think that waiting one whole year to fully upgrade to KDE4 is a bit late? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:43:59] rdieter: yeah. most should be usable. But please note that upstream might consider it slightly insane to ship 4.0.x as default ... [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:44:13] ljuwaidah, i do, a lot of people are expecting KDE4 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:44:35] ljuwaidah: who is suggeseting that? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:44:37] ljuwaidah, pembo13_com: That's why I want to get KDE 4 as default into Rawhide now! [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:44:52] pusling: Then they can call us insane. :-D [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:45:08] have you guys actually studiet what the current state of kde4 actually is ? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:45:17] Kevin_Kofler: That would be cool, if it's OK with the users... [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:45:40] We've had other broken alphas in Rawhide previously. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:45:47] pusling: insane, maybe. We'll evaluate how things are when we get further in the release cycle. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:45:48] From what I've read, beta 4 is mostly usable. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:46:14] Kevin_Kofler: it's still pretty bad, but we'll likely go with it, warts and all. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:46:41] Maybe we get "lucky" and the X11 guys are going to break X so bad that nobody notices KDE 4 being a mess. ^^ [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:46:44] rdieter, if it is just for testing at this point, i don't see why not [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:46:45] * pusling is doing kde in debian and doesn't plan to ship next debian (in october) with kde4 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:09] How about including the parts that are known to be stable? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:10] Kevin_Kofler: oh definitely, there should be a nice big window pre-F9 Alpha where X is hosed [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:13] heh [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:15] pusling: and that's probably best for your situation [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:30] pusling: That's why Debian has a reputation of being slow. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:49] ljuwaidah: definitely, best initial candidates I already mentioned: kdeedu, kdegames [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:47:49] At that time, if things go as planned (crossing fingers), we'll ship our second release with KDE 4 already. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:48:14] we're a bit crazy that way. A good kind of crazy [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:48:20] Kevin_Kofler, yah it would be really bad if Fedora was to wait a year, just since Fedora is supposedly known for being quick [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:48:21] :-) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:48:39] pembo13_com: we'll do our best to avoid that [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:03] rdieter: How about kdepim? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:17] ljuwaidah: we'll wait and see. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:23] OK :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:30] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-10-30 -- open discussion". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:41] Application modules can go in later in the cycle. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:49:44] rdieter, i thought most work on KDE3 PIM stopped to get it working for KDE4 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:04] But the switch of the default desktop had better happen ASAP, before the alpha/test1 if at all possible. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:06] pembo13_com: the other way around. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:16] pembo13_com: actually, no. Most active,currrent work has been going into kdepim-enterprise branch [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:21] there have been some long standing semi-random bugs in Kontact that i and others have reported since F5 era [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:23] pembo13_com: based on kdepim3 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:28] i see [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:31] AFAIK, the work on Koffice 1.6 stopped too.. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:35] thanks for that info [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:35] pembo13_com: which is what we currently use. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:48] kdepim-enterprise is scheduled to be merged into KDE 3.5.9, by the way. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:50:58] The state of kdepim 4.0, not sure. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:51:21] kdepim will be included in kde-4.0 release tho (most likely), so we'll have to decide what to do there [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:51:34] kdepim 4.0 with be without kmail [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:51:42] a case-by-case module-by-module evaluation will be needed. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:51:56] pusling: Where does that info come from? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:51:57] pusling: What? What will replace Kmail? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:52:23] kmail is present in the trunk in any case. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:52:56] we'll likely have to ship at least kdepim3(kmail) then, but that's part of the case-by-case, module-by-module decision making process we'll have to do [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:19] Kevin_Kofler: till have written that several times on the kdepim developers maillist. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:22] which is impossible to speculate much about at this point [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:23] ljuwaidah: kde3 kmail [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:34] * pembo13_com changes location again, will be back [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:45] And what's stopping us from shipping whatever sits in SVN trunk now? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:53:53] Beenden pembo13_com hat den Server verlassen ("peace to all"). [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:54:02] kdepim clearly exists in the 4.0 betas. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:54:06] KMail, I mean. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:54:06] pusling: Are you saying that kdepim4 will still depend on kde3's kmail? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:54:16] Kevin_Kofler: if kdepim devs (and Till) say to leave out kmail, we need to listen. He knows what he's talking about. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:54:36] * pusling tries to find a link [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:55:13] We'll probably need to ship kdepim as 3.5 altogether then. Mixing components breaks Kontact. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:55:31] * svahl looks at the clock [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:55:33] ljuwaidah: just as kopete won't be a part of kdenetwork 4.0 [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:55:54] Recently Kopete developers said the opposite. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:56:04] pusling: kde rel-team was told kopete *would* be in 4.0. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:56:05] Oh, are you saying that it will exist in KDE 4, only not as a part of kdepim? [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:56:19] sounds like some heresay, misinformation going round, but that's ok, it's still early. :) [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:56:42] ok, times up for today folks, thanks all. [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:56:54] let's take further discussion back to #fedora-devel and/or #fedora-kde [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:57:19] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule". [Di Okt 30 2007] [18:57:33] just for the record: I will add compiz-kde to the release notes and release summary