[Tue May 19 2009] [17:57:30] Join You have joined the channel #fedora-meeting (n=jreznik@nat/redhat/x-6f17fb500c233ab9). [Tue May 19 2009] [17:57:30] Topic The channel topic is "BugZapper Meeting - agenda https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-May/msg00797.html". [Tue May 19 2009] [17:57:30] Topic The topic was set by tk009 on 5/19/09 5:05 PM. [Tue May 19 2009] [17:57:30] Mode Channel modes: no messages from outside, no colors allowed [Tue May 19 2009] [17:57:30] Created This channel was created on 1/18/07 8:10 PM. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:00:01] Join G__81 has joined this channel (n=G__81@59.92.18.53). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:00:05] * G__81 is here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:17] bugzappers still going? done? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:21] Join ltinkl has joined this channel (n=ltinkl@194.212.22.14). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:27] Join Kevin_Kofler has joined this channel (n=Kevin_Ko@chello213047068123.17.14.vie.surfer.at). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:31] I see EOM, ok. :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:42] KDE SIG Meeting Start, who's present today? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:48] * jreznik is here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:52] Present. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:55] * ltinkl is here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:57] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- Init". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:01:59] * SMParrish here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:02:01] * G__81 is here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:02:07] present [Tue May 19 2009] [18:02:36] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- Agenda". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:02:52] have a light agenda, anything else to add for today? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19#Agenda [Tue May 19 2009] [18:03:12] 4.3 beta1 status [Tue May 19 2009] [18:04:29] probably remove condition for Fedora<10 in specfile [Tue May 19 2009] [18:04:47] than: which? all? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:12] Join iarlyy has joined this channel (i=c8a46b5e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-168325631d362778). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:30] Part iarlyy has left this channel. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:35] The <=F8 conditionals in particular are a PITA and it doesn't make much sense to maintain them for a Fedora POV (though it can help EL builds on kde-redhat). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:36] topic: (since it's juicy and we're on it), kde-4.3 beta1 status [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:55] Oh, another topic for the agenda: Qt 4.5.1 status. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:05:55] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- kde-4.2.85 (4.3beta1) status". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:06:05] Kevin_Kofler: qt-4.5.1 is already on agenda [Tue May 19 2009] [18:06:27] Quit No5251 has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:06:42] I have no problem dropping fedora < 10 conditionals, I think it's safe to assume we won't be shipping kde-4.3 for F-9 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:06:55] we should remove all what we needs for previous fedora release < 10 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:07:07] Quit mizmo_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:07:44] i don't thin we will do 4.3 update for f9 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:07:54] There's no way we can do that. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:08:02] F9 will be EOL about a month from now. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:08:08] 4.3 won't be out by then. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:08:16] Join foolish_ has joined this channel (n=foolish@c5F6A47C1.dhcp.bluecom.no). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:08:39] than: where'd you get kdebindings-4.2.85 tarball? I didn't think that was done. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:08:43] it's why we should remove them in the specfile [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:03] it's ok to clean conditionals for eoled releases... more sane, clean... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:05] rdieter, is it not on ktown? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:09] no [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:17] jreznik, +1 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:25] maybe it was early, but it was removed since it was reportedly broken [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:37] hrm... I see a 4.2.86 on ktown ... :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:42] rdieter, it could be that dirk removed it [Tue May 19 2009] [18:09:55] empty 4.2.86 dir anyway [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:04] than: shrug, if we can make it work, great [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:09] Quit mdomsch has left this server ("Leaving"). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:11] 4.2.86 is the "4.2.85 + 1 week" release. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:22] rdieter, i will try to make it build in rawhide [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:23] Well, weekly snapshot. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:30] ok [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:46] otherwise, 4.2.85 is pretty much done now? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:46] it doesn't make sense to build weekly snapshot [Tue May 19 2009] [18:10:49] We could try building kdebindings 4.2.86 (with all the other stuff still at 4.2.85) if 4.2.85 doesn't build. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:11:08] (We'd need to relax the BRs inside kdebindings.) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:11:17] But yes, it doesn't make sense to build weekly snapshots. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:11:23] We have enough work with the actual betas already. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:11:25] only if someone has a free day (or 2) with nothing better to do, would touching 4.2.86 make any sort of possible sense. :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:12:25] rdieter, it's better to fix bugs if somone has time ;-) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:12:54] ok, let's move on. next topic: 4.2.3 update status, Kevin_Kofler ? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:16] umm, last thing on 4.2.85: kde-l10n, working on it now [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:31] Quit kulll_ has left this server (Connection timed out). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:32] 4.2.3 is now queued for stable. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:36] Join drago01 has joined this channel (n=linux@chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:37] will F 11 have 4.2.3. I know by default we have 4.2.2 but would we get 4.2.3 ? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:50] i already built kdebase-runtime/kdepim in rawhide [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:51] ltinkl: ah, me and my english-only discrimination. thx [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:55] coz kubuntu has got 4.2.3 in 9.04 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:13:59] With kdebase-workspace-4.2.3-4 and the older kdelibs-4.2.3-2 build because 4.2.3-3 contains the QT_PLUGIN_PATH changes which need coordinating with Qt. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:09] G__81: as an update yes, dunno if it gets tagged for F11 final [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:14] G__81: 4.2.3 is queued for F11 updates already. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:23] It'll be in updates before F11 is even released. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:28] oh wonderful [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:36] and for f10 ? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:36] Join openpercept has joined this channel (n=openperc@fedora/openpercept). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:38] But it's too late to get it onto the images (live, installer). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:46] F9 and F10 updates are also queued for stable now. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:14:55] i hope the ssnow, twitter issues will be fixed soon in qt [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:00] interesting, was asked by jwb_ in #fedora-devel this morning, if we'd considerred tagging 4.2.3 for f11-final instead of doing 0-day stable update. thoughts? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:14] than: The twitter plasmoid is also broken? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:19] We don't have a bug filed for that one. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:23] rdieter: I'd tend to say yes [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:53] it seems twitter has same problem [Tue May 19 2009] [18:15:55] jreznik, than , Kevin_Kofler : what do you think. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:16:11] I've never seen a horrible breakage in a minor release in the KDE history [Tue May 19 2009] [18:16:14] twitter is equally broken for all qt-4.5.x [Tue May 19 2009] [18:16:22] We have on our tracker: rssnow breakage (total breakage, with ugly-looking workaround in kdeplasma-addons which could be pushed together with it), Amarok 2.0 breakage (the plan is to push 2.1 post beta 2) and ksysguard looking bad (but still usable). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:16:32] ie, not a 4.5.1 issue [Tue May 19 2009] [18:16:46] rdieter, it's risky, we should do 0-day stable update [Tue May 19 2009] [18:17:16] than: then there's not much difference, the users will get it from the first moment they install F11 anyway :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:17:28] Kevin_Kofler, do we have the workaround for rssnow in cvs? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:17:32] When will the images be spun? And also: do we know if there were any changes in the 4.2.3 release or packaging which could blow up the live CD's size? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:17:45] the risk is that it could break the kde livecd experience somehow, ie, untested [Tue May 19 2009] [18:17:47] ltinkl: but if we found some bug it can't be removed from install/live [Tue May 19 2009] [18:18:11] ye right, the liveCD, completely forgot [Tue May 19 2009] [18:18:15] I must say I think tagging it now is very risky, I know the XFCE bugfix update got tagged late, but that was a week or 2 ago! [Tue May 19 2009] [18:18:31] ltinkl, it makes difference here [Tue May 19 2009] [18:18:54] alright, I think we're mostly in agreement that the risk here isn't worth it? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:18:58] 0-day for me is better (and I know, it should be ok but) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:19:04] Plus, for stable updates, we have another week to fix things before the official release (well, F9 and F10 updates would be broken too, so hopefully it's not broken, but still :-) ). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:19:27] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- kde-4.2.3 status". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:19:39] rdieter, it's safer for us to do o-day update [Tue May 19 2009] [18:19:59] If qt-4.5.1/kde-4.2.3 together had come together a little earlier, maybe, but that didn't happen. ok. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:20:18] move on? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:20:37] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- qt-4.5.1 status/blockers, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=497658". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:20:42] next: qt-4.5.1 status/blockers, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=497658 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:20:44] Bug 497658: medium, low, ---, than, NEW, Qt-4.5.1 Tracker [Tue May 19 2009] [18:21:53] rssnow is hacked around, new amarok-2.1ish builds coming soon, ksysguard thing is cosmetic and mostly harmless. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:21:58] are all the bugs reported to trolltech? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:13] Join kulll has joined this channel (n=kulll@203.82.79.102). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:16] Join lfoppiano has joined this channel (n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:31] i know rssnow issue is reported [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:33] reportedly, rssnow works fine in kde-4.3.x [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:40] oh, interesting. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:22:57] rssnow is hacked - but not ok... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:17] Join tatica_ has joined this channel (n=tatica@190.79.202.252). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:18] rdieter, it works better in 4.2.85 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:31] rdieter, but still has the same issue [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:33] Quit foolish__ has left this server (Success). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:34] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193123 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:35] jreznik: yeah, it sucks, we'll likely get bugs reported over that, but I'll keep the rssnow bug# handy for dup'ing purposes. :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:23:36] Bug 193123: normal, NOR, ---, plasma-bugs kde org, RESOLVED UPSTREAM, RSSNow widget's content becomes blank after accessing ZUI [Tue May 19 2009] [18:24:27] than: good to know. with the new open qt git repo, I'd venture fixes for stuff like this will land more quickly. and... we'll have a better opportunity to cherry-pick things, test, etc... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:24:31] Maybe we should try to backport rssnow from trunk? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:24:50] rdieter, yes [Tue May 19 2009] [18:24:57] But if than says it's not really fixed there either, then that won't help. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:25:16] We need to check the Qt git for relevant fixes. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:25:25] Kevin_Kofler, i doesn't make sense to backport it [Tue May 19 2009] [18:25:28] I found one which could be relevant, but I don't think we tested that yet. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:26:02] Kevin_Kofler, yes, i already checked it today, it's not fixed yet [Tue May 19 2009] [18:26:21] Quit tatica has left this server (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:26:49] anyway, my expectation is another week (or 2) of qt-4.5.1 in updates-testing ... and we can re-evaluate, but at that point, I'd think it's advantages will far outweigh cons. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:27:34] if someone really needs 4.5.1 - it can be installed... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:27:51] Has anybody tested http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/commit/2e3a5ea4434d19fbdb90996e71961f0791ea6487 to see if it helps any? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:28:16] Kevin_Kofler: if I have time, I'll grab it after meeting, and we can try it out [Tue May 19 2009] [18:28:19] Kevin_Kofler, it doesn't help [Tue May 19 2009] [18:28:31] nevermind. :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:29:35] next topic: PolicyKit 1 (as it hits rawhide soon) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:29:43] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- PolicyKit 1 (as it hits rawhide soon)". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:30:17] now that PolicyKit support is in kdebase-workspace, this "fun" will likely need to be coordinated with kde upstream [Tue May 19 2009] [18:30:49] The problem is that AFAIK PolicyKit 1 ports of polkit-qt and PolicyKit-kde are not even started yet. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:30:55] question is: are they aware of this (incompatible) change and do they really want to support it? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:31:09] Join mizmo_ has joined this channel (n=duffy@66.187.234.199). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:31:16] because Fedora will be afaik the only distro using Polkit/1 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:31:21] any sucker, err... volunteer to lead the fedora/coordination efforts here? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:31:40] coordination efforts in ? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:31:43] Join smooge has joined this channel (n=smooge@nausicaa.unm.edu). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:32:07] ltinkl, jreznik it's great if one of you could take care of it [Tue May 19 2009] [18:32:07] efforts to make kde-4.3/polkit-qt work with PolicyKit1 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:32:26] than, jreznik: we will talk about it tomorrow when I get to the office [Tue May 19 2009] [18:32:49] than: I'll take care as PolKit scares me a lot - system config tools... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:32:59] oh ok i cannot lead as i am new to this but if i could be of some help then i can for sure [Tue May 19 2009] [18:33:03] ltinkl, great [Tue May 19 2009] [18:33:09] IMHO PolicyKit 1 should be blocked until the KDE ports happen, but the feature promoters and FESCo think otherwise. :-( [Tue May 19 2009] [18:33:32] this is where we need more presence and pressure [Tue May 19 2009] [18:33:46] They argued that PolicyKit 0.8 is dead upstream and so migrating to 1.0 ASAP is unavoidable. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:33:46] let's evaluate our options before crying foul. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:34:04] old PolKit stays until everything is ported [Tue May 19 2009] [18:34:27] jreznik: can the 2 versions coexist in the system? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:34:38] jreznik, yes, it must stay [Tue May 19 2009] [18:34:45] ie, get a handle on the scope of work involved, invasiveness of changes, etc... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:35:19] I did complain in the FESCo ticket before their meeting, but they ignored my concerns entirely, all I got was a reply from davidz (the feature owner) saying we should just drop PolicyKit support (ugh) or use a compat package (not very useful if all the system services use the new version). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:35:37] ltinkl: They can, but they can't talk to each other. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:35:52] Well, I'm not even sure they don't conflict. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:35:53] we don't want another networkmanager fiasco [Tue May 19 2009] [18:35:59] But in any case they don't talk to each other. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:36:30] from feature page: The old PolicyKit 0.9 packages can remain for a while to ease the transition period and will be removed a few months into F12, when all users have been ported. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:36:39] ie, depending on a toolkit with continually changing api [Tue May 19 2009] [18:37:24] This was the ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/151 [Tue May 19 2009] [18:37:31] it's all because of lot of enterprise features... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:38:10] anyway, you guys meet, look it over, and come back with your findings, recommendations on how best to proceed. plan? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:38:17] davidz also said he'd go on with upgrading PolicyKit even if FESCo rejects it as a feature. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:38:45] I think we should ask FESCo to not just revoke the feature approval, but also explicitly ban upgrading PolicyKit until the KDE bindings are ready. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:04] Or at least there's a schedule for them to be ready. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:14] There's no evidence that they'll be anywhere near ready in time for F12. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:15] we can try that, good luck :p [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:17] Kevin_Kofler: that's an option, but we'd better damn well have ample evidence, justification to do so. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:28] rdieter: yes, I'm more interested in PolKit so I have to dig much deeper to it (and I hate to do it but...) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:39:54] Join petreu has joined this channel (n=peter@fedora/petreu). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:40:38] PK1 has to be ready for F12... so I think they'll catch F12... it's one of top priority here in Red Hat... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:41:25] Quit tatica_ has left this server (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:41:43] But is anybody working on updated polkit-qt and PolicyKit-kde? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:41:51] I don't think anybody from RH is. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:41:55] so, best if we can just make it work, but that will likely require developer resources only rh can help provide (ie, @redhat.com 'ers working on it). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:41:57] Join tatica_ has joined this channel (n=tatica@host-190-15-166-65.movilmax.com). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:42:01] And upstream I don't even see a work branch or anything. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:42:03] Kevin_Kofler: right, not yet. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:42:37] Kevin_Kofler, it's not done yet [Tue May 19 2009] [18:43:00] Quit RodrigoPadula has left this server ("Saindo"). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:43:01] they promise some porting examples but I couldn't find theme anywhere [Tue May 19 2009] [18:43:33] and other projects are complaining about PK1 too (some missing features like OOM notification) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:43:42] so we're not alone [Tue May 19 2009] [18:43:54] Several of the "ports" of apps they did in the RH BZ just drop or cripple PolicyKit support. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:03] I think this is really being rushed in while clearly not ready. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:07] Join rishi has joined this channel (n=rishi@gnu-india/supporter/debarshi). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:13] It's regressing several things. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:28] jreznik: OOM notification isn't even planned in the official bindings. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:34] They now use GObject which just aborts. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:54] You have to use D-Bus directly if you want to handle OOM, they no longer provide a binding which does that. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:44:59] we need to talk to pk guys, kde upstream... and maybe help with porting... [Tue May 19 2009] [18:45:03] Or write your own binding, I guess. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:45:19] Kevin_Kofler: I don't need it - libvirt needs it [Tue May 19 2009] [18:45:20] By the way, I wonder how polkit-qt handles OOM, if at all. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:46:46] well, discuss, meet, and report back, plan? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:47:11] best if most/all of that can be onlist (fedora-kde or fedora-devel) to get wider exposure too [Tue May 19 2009] [18:47:13] it sounds like war plan :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:47:30] synchronize watches. attack! [Tue May 19 2009] [18:47:47] Dario Freddi is the guy to contact on the KDE side. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:07] He's the main developer of polkit-qt and PolicyKit-kde. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:27] Kevin_Kofler: thanks [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:35] David Zeuthen (davidz) is the PolicyKit/RH contact. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:40] I know [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:54] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-05-19 -- Open Discussion". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:48:56] ltinkl: when will you arrive tomorrow? [Tue May 19 2009] [18:49:11] jreznik: asap [Tue May 19 2009] [18:49:13] :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:49:58] that's it for the agenda, open discussion [Tue May 19 2009] [18:50:14] ltinkl: ok [Tue May 19 2009] [18:50:43] open discussion about closed software? :D and closed discussion about open software :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:51:15] Quit kulll has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:51:19] open everything [Tue May 19 2009] [18:53:04] it's all from me for today... I'l prepare summary, but from home, I have to go shopping to buy something to eat before they close markets :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:53:50] jreznik, no problem :) [Tue May 19 2009] [18:54:01] ok, let's close the meeting then, take things back to #fedora-kde. Thanks everyone. [Tue May 19 2009] [18:54:04] KDE SIG Meeting end [Tue May 19 2009] [18:54:11] Part ltinkl has left this channel ("Konversation terminated!"). [Tue May 19 2009] [18:54:26] Topic rdieter sets the channel topic to "Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule". [Tue May 19 2009] [18:56:35] Nick stickster is now known as stickster_afk.