[Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:01] KDE SIG meeting start [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:09] who's present today (while I load the wiki) ? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:13] Gerald Cox [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:14] Present. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:14] present [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:08:33] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Init". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:10] ltinkl, than: ping [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:19] let's get going slowly, lots to do [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:29] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Final preps for F9 release". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:40] topic: final preparations. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:46] topic: final preparations for f9 release [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:09:56] The final devel freeze was this morning, so any new builds have to be run past rel-eng. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:10:22] Can we still not build documentation from kde-l10n? :-( [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:10:45] Kevin_Kofler: kde-l10n is (still?) broken? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:11:15] IMHO this sucks for F9, we're stuck with either outdated docs from kde-i18n or untranslated ones if I rm -rf the kde-i18n ones (but I don't have a list of which ones to remove either, we want to keep the ones for the apps we ship as KDE 3 like kdepim and kdewebdev). [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:11:57] ouch, I thought that was all fixed long ago. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:12:37] any bz bugs tracking this? (if not, please open one) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:13:21] None that I know of, I can open one right now. Will I get killed if I mark it F9Blocker? ;-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:13:38] well, do KDE4Live, F9Target at least. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:13:54] it's not a blocker (it doesn't match blocker criteria) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:02] Right, it's not really a blocker, it can be fixed in an update. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:08] Though a huge update. :-( [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:28] But we'll have a kde-l10n-4.0.4 update soon after the release anyway, and 4.1.0 later. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:37] do the tarballs not build at all or just the docu? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:54] hmm... folks mind if we come back to this open-ended topic, after we cover the rest of the longish list? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:14:56] The tarballs are being built with -D BUILD_docs:BOOL=OFF [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:07] i see [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:11] I guess we could try and see what breaks if we reenable it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:31] ye, lets discuss this after the meeting [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:46] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- kdepim requires kdebase3 ?". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:48] We'll have to fix kde-i18n to kill the conflicts though. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:15:58] topic: kdepim requires kdebase3 ?". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:05] This one has been reported by spstarr yesterday on #fedora-kde. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:06] looks like a bug to me, I'll fix that after meeting. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:22] kdepim breaks with "Cannot open file ." if kdebase3 is not installed. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:23] anyone else look into it yet? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:26] There's no Requires. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:16:54] We need to figure out what part of kdebase3 is needed to decide how to fix it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:17:03] "Cannot open file" is triggered by what? (opening attachments?) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:17:17] regardless, need a bz tracking it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:17:20] what app exactly? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:17:44] The actual error is: "Error - KMail, 'Could not read .' " [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:17:53] and which arch? I don't see this on i386 [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:18:15] I'll try to reproduce after meeting (I'm not seeing this either, without kdebase3 being installed for quite some time) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:18:15] It's triggered by the configuration wizard and by the Extras tab. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:18:16] oh. nevermind [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:18:18] any bz? when does this happen? etc [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:18:41] Try it with a fresh user, it's the first start wizard which reportedly triggers it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:20:26] ok, step 1, open bz ticket, and we'll go from there.... let's move on. :) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:20:55] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- state of konq-plugins (http://bugzilla.redhat.com/438126)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:21:04] topic: state of konq-plugins (http://bugzilla.redhat.com/438126) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:21:30] I've messed with this looking for breakage, for only a few minutes here and there. found no show-stoppers. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:21:45] nothing remotely thorough mind you. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:22:00] Wolfy tried to test it, but got stuck with Rawhide problems unrelated to KDE. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:22:18] * rdieter goes to comment in the bz ticket. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:22:18] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-April/msg00690.html [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:24:24] I wonder if we should move the kdeaddons Obsoletes from extragear-plasma to konq-plugins. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:24:25] I've also found no show-stoppers, yet. So maybe just start the review for including it in Everything repo at release time? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:24:40] good question [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:24:43] There isn't much useful stuff in extragear-plasma in 4.0, there will be more in 4.1 though. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:26:46] starting to look like not worth the trouble of rushing into the final release, I'd feel better releasing this afterward too. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:27:14] Well, if we want to move the Obsoletes: kdeaddons there, we'll want to get it in into GA. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:27:26] But I guess that's an argument against moving the Obsoletes. :-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:27:27] there's that too. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:27:48] GA requires a finished review, which we don't have (yet). [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:28:32] let's move on. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:28:42] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Administrator mode in systemsettings (again)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:28:48] topic: Administrator mode in systemsettings (again) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:28:49] We can just push konq-plguins as a 0-day update. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:29:24] +1 (I'm also not sure if there would be enough space on the live images) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:29:40] this is pretty much a non-starter, no? feature simply doesn't exist in kde-4.0. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:29:53] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=434824 [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:19] There's a patch by ltinkl, but it isn't working properly, so it isn't enabled. :-( [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:19] AFAIR ltinkl said that he was working on something (but I'm maybe wrong) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:26] ah. ok :) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:32] oh, ltinkl was working on that. OK. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:46] it works, kind of [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:48] ltinkl: status? updates? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:30:51] :) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:31:23] waiting for upstream to implement the missing stuff properly [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:31:33] ltinkl: What's the "missing stuff"? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:31:43] ltinkl: is it close to being ready (like now), or push off for later? (sounds like the latter to me) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:31:57] DBUS communication and XEmbed for embedding the modules [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:32:13] Is there a way to exclude "Login Manager" and "Samba" from systemsettings and start them with root privileges? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:32:27] both these were simply dropped (or not done) when porting to KDE 4 [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:33:06] my patch is rather a quick hack or workaround [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:33:39] Well, is the patch usable or is it broken beyond repair? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:33:48] If it's usable, we want it in F9, even if it's a hack. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:33:57] and since upstream maintainers promised to be working on this for 4.1, I simply haven't touched it since [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:34:21] I'd say include it, it doesn't make things worse [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:34:40] ok [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:34:53] Then can you please build it and then send a tag request to rel-eng@fedoraproject.org? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:35:33] ok [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:35:35] Let's move on to the next topic. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:35:48] (FYI: I filed https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441537 for the kde-l10n issue.) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:35:54] Betreten spstarr_work hat den Kanal betreten (n=spstarr@192.219.104.10). [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:04] topic: Missing default face icon (#441154) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:11] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Missing default face icon (#441154)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:25] Already fixed, next topic please. :-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:32] yay [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:49] topic: BootManager=None in in /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc (#441313) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:36:55] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- BootManager=None in in /etc/kde/kdm/kdmrc (#441313)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:37:01] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441313 [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:37:50] svahl requested this switch, but I'm personally against it. any other thoughts, views? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:37:54] As I've said in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441313#c3 this is reproducably not working for me. For rdieter it's the other way round :) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:37:57] See also https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=374011 (related). [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:39:00] svahl: so you're saying: BootManager=None works, but BootManager=grub makes you unable to log out? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:39:40] no, not logout. I'll have to pick one kernel of the list to actually reboot. The short single click on "reboot" isn't working for me [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:39:49] (all of this in KDM) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:40:40] svahl: what you're seeing is a bug, which we should fix, not simply avoid it by changing defaults, imo. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:41:03] now, if it's unfixable, then we may have no choice but to avoid it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:41:19] What about the SELinux problem? Is that no longer an issue in F9? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:42:01] Kevin_Kofler: it's unclear whether these 2 issues are related, atm. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:42:21] not enough data to make any conclusions, yet. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:42:24] The relation is that they're both caused by the same setting. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:43:14] it's unclear to me whether the restart feature/failure is induced by selinux denials, or not. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:43:42] I'll look at it closer after meeting, toggling BootManager/selinux and see what I can find. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:43:59] i've always have had selinux disabled and haven't encountered the issue [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:44:01] I've tried to produce some logs about my problem but I wasn't able to [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:45:11] ok, let's move on. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:45:26] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Switch to Waves Artwork (KDM, Background, ColorScheme; what's still missing?) (#44167)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:45:31] topic: Switch to Waves Artwork (KDM, Background, ColorScheme; what's still missing?) (#44167) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:45:55] Stalwart is working on a KDM theme, he says it should be ready tonight. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:45:55] first implementation of kdm themeing was comitted/built yesterday. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:46:00] neat [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:46:20] What we have now is unthemed KDM with some config setting, what Stalwart is working on is an actual theme. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:46:41] frustrating that fedora-artwork doesn't have anything final produced yet (or that things are still in flux here) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:10] oh well [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:15] Well, they're working based on user feedback, the sulphur crystal wasn't well-received at all. :-( [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:19] I've not followed fedora-art-list lately. Have they picked a default wallpaper yet? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:36] fwiw, Waves ksplash default in kde-settings doesn't seem to work (for me). [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:39] * spstarr_work waits his turn on a new bug found :-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:47:59] It's a bit sad because there was lots of effort sunk into making the artwork match the release name and now it's being thrown out. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:48:02] in that "Default" is still used. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:48:27] This is something we urgently need to fix. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:48:30] * rdieter will bz that asap after meeting. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:48:58] moving on. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:12] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- Release notes (re-check: is anything missing?)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:20] topic: Release notes (re-check: is anything missing?)". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:27] for waves artwork: Do we need a matching color scheme? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:30] excellent question, last I checked, the notes hadn't been updated yet. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:37] FYI, any changes done to the release notes now will only be on the web, not in GA. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:38] svahl: would be nice. :) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:49:50] I did some changes the day before the freeze. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:50:03] So it says 4.0.3 now instead of 4.0.2. :-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:50:42] The release notes are being translated now. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:51:53] I don't like how they're intentionally shipping outdated English release notes just to have matching translations, but it's the way the process works. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:52:36] Kevin_Kofler, et al: After today, changes you make will make it to the zero-day updates at least. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:53:00] anything else here? move on? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:53:36] * stickster notes 18 April is freeze for zero-day [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:53:41] So the rel-notes should be fine? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:53:52] I'd say move on, I'm not aware of anything needing fixes in the rel-notes or I'd have fixed it already. ;-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:05] But if you spot something, either fix it or let me know so I can fix it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:15] wouldn't hurt to have more eyes double-checking rel-notes. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:17] move on++ [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:25] Topic rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-04-08 -- open discussion". [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:29] topic: open discusion [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:33] spstarr_work: ? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:47] rdieter: problem with kmail [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:54:54] missing kdebase3 and or kdebase3-libs [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:55:05] installing those kmail works [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:55:12] spstarr_work: please bugzilla that, we'll get on triaging/diagnosing it asap. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:55:13] I've put that on the agenda already, we talked a bit about it before you showed up. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:55:17] * stickster sorry for interrupting but wanted to say y'all's release notes were really good. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:55:44] stickster: you have a free pass to interrupt any time. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:15] I did not test GPG keys yet with kmail will tonight so we might be missing other dependencies [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:15] ie a pop up dialog from qt-pinentry or something [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:15] i assume this is a dependency of kmail but i dont know yet. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:24] i was typing in #fedora-kde ;-) oops [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:42] kmail pulls in pinentry-qt, gpgme -> gnupg2 (I think) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:56:51] ok so then we have all those pieces [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:57:29] kdebase3 is the problem. We'd like to avoid pulling all of kdebase3 onto the live CD if we can avoid it. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:57:53] kmail needs the kioslaves [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:06] spstarr_work: do you have an example for trying? [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:22] FYI: my latest live image package list: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/CurrentPackageList (should be RC1) [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:32] There are pop3 and smtp ioslaves in kdebase. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:38] I guess those are the ones. [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:45] And if you're using IMAP, of course you won't notice... [Di Apr 8 2008] [18:59:50] kinda need those for kmail ;) [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:00:08] Unless you use IMAP, which is probably why this hasn't been caught yet. ;-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:00:18] (I'm using POP/SMTP, but I'm still on F8.) [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:00:25] thats an Urgent bug marking so [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:00:37] Kmail is unusable [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:01:23] I suggest we split out kdebase3-mail-ioslaves and Require that in kdepim if that's all that's needed from kdebase. [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:01:51] I don't think anything other than kdepim will need the mail ioslaves, so we don't have to add a Requires: kdebase3-mail-ioslaves to the main kdebase3 package. [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:02:19] Hmmm, I guess we should add nntp there too. [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:02:20] ok. confirmed with pop3 [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:02:42] How can we figure out what exactly is needed from kdebase3? [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:02:56] (i.e. if my kdebase3-mail-ioslaves plan is going to work) [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:03:19] * spot whistles [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:03:50] spstarr_work: Have you filed the bug yet? [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:03:58] times up, thanks all [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:00] KDE SIG meeting end. [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:02] We have to leave the room for the packagers now. :-) [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:05] back to #fedora-kde [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:14] * spot gets the fire hose [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:15] * rdieter puts fpc hat on [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:16] Bug # [Di Apr 8 2008] [19:04:20] 441541