[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:21] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- Init".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:32] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting Init, who's present today?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	Present.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:46] <rdieter>	ping: than svahl ltinkl foo*
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:50] <ltinkl>	pong
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:03:53] <svahl>	present
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:05:10] <rdieter>	okie dokie, topic 1: PolicyKit fun
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:05:26] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- PolicyKit integration http://bugzilla.redhat.com/428212".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:05:34] <rdieter>	PolicyKit integration http://bugzilla.redhat.com/428212
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:05:50] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: looks like you've made some good progress, update?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:06:25] <Kevin_Kofler>	I have a patch which I think should work, I haven't done any testing yet, not even built it, though.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:06:46] <Kevin_Kofler>	The patch also works around the NTFS/HAL issue.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:06:56] <Kevin_Kofler>	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=378041
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:06:58] <buggbot>	Bug 378041: medium, high, ---, Kevin Kofler, ASSIGNED , unable to mount removable/ntfs
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:07:06] <rdieter>	can you outline what it does bascially?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:07:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	(reported against KDE 3, but KDE 4 has the same problem)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:08:06] <Kevin_Kofler>	The workaround for lack of PolicyKit support (428212) is that if HAL returns the PermissionDeniedByPolicy error, instead of sending the D-Bus message directly, I run kdesu dbus-send.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:08:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	(I've stolen that hack from Kubuntu's KDE 3 patch, but I've rewritten the code for KDE 4.)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:09:18] <Kevin_Kofler>	The workaround for the NTFS problem is that I only pass uid= option for the 4 file systems for which HAL allows it without throwing an "unknown error" (I looked at the offending source file).
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:09:34] <rdieter>	eww, ok, I remember now. :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:10:17] <rdieter>	we're still of the opinion the better/proper place to fix this is hal?  If so, how?  Can we offer help/patches to fix hal?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:10:23] <Kevin_Kofler>	The Kubuntu KDE 3 patch only omits it for ntfs, but it will error for everything which is not vfat, iso9660, udf or hfs, so I filter it out for everything except those 4.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:10:26] <rdieter>	And be "we" I really mean you. :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:11:04] <Kevin_Kofler>	HAL should be doing one of these:
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:11:19] <Kevin_Kofler>	* not listing the uid= option as allowed if it's going to error with a "TODO" on it
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:11:30] 	 * rdieter goes to refill coffee, brb
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:11:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	* doing something sensible with uid=, even if it's PermissionDeniedByPolicy for non-root
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:12:09] <Kevin_Kofler>	I think those are the 2 acceptable solutions, the status quo isn't. :-(
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:13:34] <Kevin_Kofler>	Oh, and if uid= is listed as allowed, at least root MUST be allowed to use it, denying unconditionally for non-root users, while suboptimal, would be tolerable though.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:14:15] <rdieter>	part of the problem, is davidz thinks this to be a kde issue, because gnome seems fine.  Anyone have ideas/theories why we're the only ones seeing this then?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:14:41] <Kevin_Kofler>	Because GNOME isn't using uid=, most likely
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:14:44] <rdieter>	ie, gnome-mount works fine.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:15:44] <Kevin_Kofler>	By the way, the kdesu hack is likely to be a problem for FUSE mounts like ntfs-3g, because the stuff will be mounted by root.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:15:45] <rdieter>	ok.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:15:53] <rdieter>	crap
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:16:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	Removable NTFS partitions should work fine (and in fact uid= is useless with FUSE, so it's OK to omit it, it shouldn't be listed as supported in the first place), fixed ones probably won't work.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:16:56] <Kevin_Kofler>	Fixed non-FUSE partitions will work thanks to the kdesu workaround.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:17:29] <Kevin_Kofler>	I don't think we can do much better without fully PolicyKit support.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:17:37] <Kevin_Kofler>	-y
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:18:52] <rdieter>	ok, thanks.  any volunteers to test out the patch?  (else I'll do it... eventually when I get roundtuit)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:19:40] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: to be clear, what you have so far is just the kde3 support/patch, right?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:19:54] <Kevin_Kofler>	No, the KDE 4 one.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:20:02] <Kevin_Kofler>	The KDE 3 one is what the Kubuntu patch is.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:20:13] <rdieter>	ok. me = duh
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:20:51] <rdieter>	Since hal in f7 seems ok, should we make the kde3 patch for f8+ only, or patch everywhere/
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:20:51] <rdieter>	?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:05] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'd say F8+ only.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:09] <rdieter>	nod
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	I plan to do some minor edits to the Kubuntu KDE 3 patch:
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:25] <Kevin_Kofler>	* only pass uid= for the 4 file systems where HAL allows it, not everything except ntfs
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:35] <Kevin_Kofler>	* rip out kdesudo support
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:48] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: good, thx. let me know, and I'll work to test that one out too.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:53] <rdieter>	moving on...
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:21:55] <Kevin_Kofler>	* use kdesu in a better way (don't set caption to untranslated "Authenticate", use the translated default caption instead)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:22:41] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf " KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- KDE4 in Desktop User Guide http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:22:51] <rdieter>	KDE4 in Desktop User Guide http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:02] <rdieter>	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not see any KDE4 content there, just F8/KDE3 references ??
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:29] <rdieter>	Am I blind, looking in the wrong place, doc not updated?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:31] <svahl>	that seems to be true
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	(Correction: Actually "Authenticate" is i18n-ed properly, but overriding the message is still not needed.)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:49] <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: Well, that's kinda the point.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:23:58] <Kevin_Kofler>	The KDE section is still written for KDE 3.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:24:10] <rdieter>	I thought Marc W... was working on that?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:24:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	He said on his blog he wants to update it once the beta is out.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:24:50] <rdieter>	oh, I misread then.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:25:01] <Kevin_Kofler>	(in the comments)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:25:04] <rdieter>	"KDE users look over it for the kde sections just remember it's for F-9 not F-8 when you are looking at it.  "
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:25:12] <rdieter>	confused me a bit
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:25:17] <Kevin_Kofler>	Indeed.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:25:40] <Kevin_Kofler>	We discussed this in the comments, and there he said he'll update the KDE section after the beta.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:26:00] <Kevin_Kofler>	The application sections are supposed to be up to date for F9 though, I'm not sure if they actually are.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:26:26] <Kevin_Kofler>	For the KDE section, I'd say we give him the time to update it, if it's still in need of updating in a couple weeks, I can help him out.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:27:19] <rdieter>	ok, job #2: look over DUG for other stale kde content, revist in a couple weeks=> Kevin_Kofler  :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:27:31] <rdieter>	any other comment here?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:28:28] <svahl>	sounds good
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:28:47] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf " KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- Status of konq-plugins".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:28:54] <rdieter>	topic 3: Status of konq-plugins
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:28:56] <rdieter>	svahl: ?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:29:17] <svahl>	sorry, no progress here. with kde-4.0.2 the sidebar is working again
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:29:36] <svahl>	but my time is very limited atm to proceed
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:29:37] <Kevin_Kofler>	I really want this in the F9 release.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:30:14] <svahl>	me too. But it seems to be unmaintained upstream (I've got no answer to a mail). There are only some fixes in svn
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:30:15] <ltinkl>	what are those plugins specifically?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:30:42] <Kevin_Kofler>	A lot of nice things: sidebar, BabelFish integration and other stuff like that.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:30:59] <rdieter>	svahl: status?  submitted for review, pending review, pending import?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:31:14] <svahl>	not submitted for review yet
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:31:18] <rdieter>	a lot of what used to be in kdeaddons
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:31:38] <rdieter>	svahl: does it build (yet)?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:32:11] <svahl>	yes. and my last checkout works at least for the sidebar (icons where missing, but ok)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:32:36] <rdieter>	svahl:  need some packaging help then?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:32:57] <svahl>	more testing than packaging. :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:33:16] <Kevin_Kofler>	Forget the testing, just get this thing in. :-)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:33:25] <rdieter>	have time to submit for review?  Then, others can start helping wrt testing and such.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:33:40] <svahl>	submitting should be easy. 
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:33:51] <rdieter>	ok, sounds like a plan.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:34:06] <svahl>	ok. I'll have a final look at the spec and submit it this evening. But please promise to test it :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:34:18] <rdieter>	nod
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:34:36] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf " KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- kmix/mute doesn't work, http://bugzilla.redhat.com/437962".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:34:46] <rdieter>	next topic:  kmix/mute doesn't work, http://bugzilla.redhat.com/437962
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:34:58] <rdieter>	can anyone confirm, nack this ?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:35:24] <ltinkl>	rdieter: you sure you selected the right master channel, sometimes this doesn't work automatically
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:35:36] 	 * ltinkl tries to reproduce
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:36:27] <Kevin_Kofler>	This is likely to be dependent on the ALSA setup (with or without PA, if without: what hardware, ...).
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:36:37] <rdieter>	ltinkl: I think it's right (mine lists PCM as master channel)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:36:40] <svahl>	rdieter: works for me
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:36:47] <ltinkl>	hmm, I get no tray icon and an empty mixer window, prolly coz I dont use ALSA O_o
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:36:55] <ltinkl>	bummer
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:37:14] <rdieter>	svahl: does it behave like kde3 for you, in that the systray icon changes?  (mine doesn't)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:37:36] <Kevin_Kofler>	If it works with the ALSA+PA setup used by default in the live CD, then IMHO it's not a showstopper.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:37:40] <svahl>	yes. when muting the icon is changed
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:37:57] <rdieter>	ok, something is goofy for me then, like I said, nothing happens for me.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:04] <svahl>	I've tested it on a local installation. Haven't checked the livecd
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:09] <rdieter>	oh well, I'll try another user.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:20] <rdieter>	and/or blow away my current settings.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:24] <rdieter>	let's move on.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:32] Topic	rdieter setzt das Kanal-Topic auf " KDE-SIG Meeting -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-03-18 -- Open Discussion".
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:41] <rdieter>	that's it for agenda topics: open discussion
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:38:57] <svahl>	brainstorming: gnome-packagekit, swfdec, artwork
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:39:19] <rdieter>	nspluginwrapper integration
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:39:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	svahl: Should I mark kaudiocreator as deferred due to instability? (So we mark it off the progress towards 100% of FeatureKDE4)?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:39:39] <rdieter>	hrm, we should have some sort of kde4/TODO list on the wiki.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:40:08] <rdieter>	+ update FeatureKDE4 wiki
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:40:26] <svahl>	Kevin_Kofler: yes, please do so. (Every second checkout seems to be broken. So it's not really maintainable ATM, at least for me)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:40:41] <rdieter>	reminds me of knetworkmanager...
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:41:07] <rdieter>	dgilmore: :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:41:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	Uh don't understand how kaudiocreator can be breaking every second checkout as it hasn't changed at all since my bugfix commit. ;-)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:42:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	But anyway, it's not critical for F9, there are other options for ripping around (e.g. k3b).
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:42:47] <svahl>	Kevin_Kofler: it worked after your patch (means: it was starting without crashing). But now it crashes when you try to rip a cd :(
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:43:09] <svahl>	at least when I last tried it
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:44:02] <rdieter>	wrt: packagekit...  http://wire.dattitu.de/archives/2008/03/15/KDE4-port-of-openSUSE-Updater,-KDE-4.1-snapshot-4.0.66,-FOSDEM-talk.html
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:44:28] <Kevin_Kofler>	Yeah, I've read that too.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:44:32] <rdieter>	looks like openSUSE folks are working on a kde4-ized packagekit.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:44:34] <ltinkl>	same :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:44:51] <Kevin_Kofler>	Hopefully it won't be as useless as knetworkmanager...
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:45:23] <ltinkl>	ye, they seem to be interested not only in PackageKit, but also in PolicyKit and KDE NM in the long term
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:45:25] <rdieter>	at least packagekit is released with a quasi-stable api, the same can't be said for nm-0.7
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:46:12] <Kevin_Kofler>	For F9 we'll just have to ship gnome-packagekit. The stuff it replaces was also GTK+-based anyway.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:46:20] <rdieter>	nod
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:46:26] <Kevin_Kofler>	And the maintainer kindly fixed it up to work in KDE.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:46:50] <rdieter>	I sat in on a PK demo at FUDCon, good stuff.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:47:13] <rdieter>	(was either right before or after my kde4 talk). :)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:47:31] <dgilmore>	rdieter: i need to fill out the wiki
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:47:32] <svahl>	well, the icons are shown in menu. But pk-update-viewer (or -icon. the replacement for puplet) is not started automatically atm
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:48:02] <Kevin_Kofler>	Is there a bug for this already?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:48:36] <svahl>	It's part of my old bug 
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:48:49] <svahl>	the desktop file is in /usr/share/gnome/autostart
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:49:08] <Kevin_Kofler>	So that just needs to be moved to the right directory, sounds like a trivial change.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:49:09] 	 * svahl is looking for the bug number
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:49:44] <svahl>	https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=437048
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:49:45] <buggbot>	Bug 437048: low, urgent, ---, Robin Norwood, CLOSED RAWHIDE, [RFE]: Please let KDE users also use gnome-packagekit
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:50:45] <svahl>	mhh. maybe I should just repoen it. But first I have to look if it actually working (and see, what jeremy do on the gnome live images to prevent it from starting like puplet)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:54:45] 	 * rdieter answers phone, busy for a bit...
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:58:34] <rdieter>	back, confirmed, gnome-packagekit is (still) not using xdg autostart, as of gnome-packagekit-0.1.9-3 anyway
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:59:14] <rdieter>	reopen the bug
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:59:19] <rdieter>	heck, I'll do it.
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:59:34] <svahl>	already done
[Di Mär 18 2008] [17:59:38] <rdieter>	:)
[Di Mär 18 2008] [18:01:51] <svahl>	anything else?
[Di Mär 18 2008] [18:03:32] <rdieter>	time's up for today anyway, let's wrap up
[Di Mär 18 2008] [18:03:37] <rdieter>	KDE SIG meeting end
[Di Mär 18 2008] [18:03:39] <rdieter>	Thanks all!