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Board/Meetings/2008-04-01
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Fedora Project Board Meeting :: Tuesday 2008-04-01
Roll Call
Attendees: Everyone on #fedora-board-meeting
Discussion Summary
Spins (2008-01-29)
- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal
- No decenting votes on proposal
- Concerns about how and where spins will be built and interactions with SELinux
- OWNER: Karsten Wade
- ACTION: Organize a special meeting to discuss SELinux issues and go-forward plan
Codeina (2008-02-26)
- board revisited previous decision
- agreed to revert to Fedora 8 Codeina behavior and include latest Fedora 8 Codeina package in Fedora 9
- revisit Codeina again at start of Fedora 10
- OWNERS: Seth Vidal and Chris Aillon
- ACTION: co-maintainers for codeina--add latest Fedora 8 version to rawhide for Fedora 9
Other discussion
- See transcript
IRC Transcript
- Raw discussion is here
#!html <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /> <title>2008-04-01-board-IRC</title> <link rel="stylesheet" href="irclog.css" /> <meta name="generator" content="irclog2html.py 2.3 by Marius Gedminas" /> <meta name="version" content="2.3 - 2005-03-28" /> </head> <body> <table class="irclog"> <tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Hi all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll give people a few more minutes to trickle in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:00" class="time">14:00</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Note that the Board members are *not* (or should not be) watching #fedora-board-public</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll just wait for questions to come in from Max after talking about spins a bit.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:01" class="time">14:01</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">im not watching anything other than a data server catch on fire</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Nice.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:02" class="time">14:02</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sorry I'm late</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:03" class="time">14:03</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">couldn't find the post with the channel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We'll commence in about 3 minutes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:04"><td class="action" colspan="2">* stickster wields Iron Scheduling Fist o' Doom</td><td><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">you have a iron scheduling fist?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:04" class="time">14:04</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">I mean - an iron fist would be handy when you have lots of wrinkly shirts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but I don't know that I want hot-pressed schedules</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">My schedules are crisp, yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">crickets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal enjoys a caffeinated beverage called a 'voltaire'</td><td><a href="#t14:05" class="time">14:05</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">3 shots of espresso and hot chocolate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it's REALLY REALLY good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">skvidal, we really need synthetic expresso</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:06" class="time">14:06</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:07"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- Irssi: #fedora-board-meeting: Total of 21 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 7 voices, 12 normal] </td><td><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spoleeba: indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:07" class="time">14:07</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">so it doesn't have to come so far :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">oh and.. im not on the phone for this meeting.. my hands they are a busy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">eww</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">too much information</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:08" class="time">14:08</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">OK, let's commence</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><meeting></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Seriously.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Roll call!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">PaulFrields</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">SethVidal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Christopher Aillon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">SteveDickson</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:09" class="time">14:09</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">KarstenWade</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">Bill Nottingham</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">yo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">Matt Domsch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:10" class="time">14:10</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">okay thats it im afk for a bit... if someone bothers to ask a question about spins.. just make up an answer...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">So speaking of spins... <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:11" class="time">14:11</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Has everyone had a chance to review Jef's proposal?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">steved</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">+1 that is...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:12" class="time">14:12</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yeah it seems reasonable to me. and if others are happy with it, i am too. +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: I like the fact that you have these tracked like features.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessProposal</a> ... just discussing that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:13" class="time">14:13</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93"> I like that it's blocking on the creation of a Spins SIG to oversee it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:14"><td class="action" colspan="2">* steved nees to read <a href="https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessAmendments">https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JefSpaleta/SpinReleaseProcessAmendments</a></td><td><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">rather than blocking on infrastructure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:14" class="time">14:14</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">(though mmcgrath may still have heartburn)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: Right, in order for this to work, it's got to have a community of people who are interested in putting together best practices.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">yummy mmcgrath heartburn :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><td class="action" colspan="2">* caillon nominates mmcgrath to head the spins sig</td><td><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yes, but then he'll have a SIG to get antacid tabs from</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">we self-medicate around here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">since he doesn't have voice here to protest ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: you too?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">caillon: seconded!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">damn it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">BTW I'm +1 on the proposal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">stickster, do you get a formal vote? :P</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:16" class="time">14:16</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">caillon: Not really, I just wanted spoleeba to feel good about himself.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">and composing the spins on infrastructure solves the hangup about hacked systems (well, as much as composes for non-spins do)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid was going to nominate spoleeba to head the Spins SIG, since he is afk ... :)</td><td><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">pong?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">what did I do?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mdomsch: But it should be clear that getting the composing stuff off the ground isn't something Infrastructure has to do in a vaccuum.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">haha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">They do it in response to an active SIG</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:17" class="time">14:17</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">in case spevack needs to +v someone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">stickster: anything infrastructure does doesnt have to and should not be done in a vacuum</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">or -v them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mdomsch: or wishes to kickban us :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* spevack has teh powar</td><td><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">dgilmore: +10 that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:18" class="time">14:18</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:19"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath doesn't think what we're doing is in a vacuum wrt spins. But we can't give just give out root on the spins boxes to everyone and you can't spin without root.</td><td><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mmcgrath: :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">well, at least until we can build spins on the build servers.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:19" class="time">14:19</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">no reason for Infra to give out root on that box, is there?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">what we need is a way of submitting spins using a web browser</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mmcgrath: which means that people should work on code to fix that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and then a system takes the kickstarts</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and magically creates them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: alt ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">GSoC project...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Ok, here are the current problems.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and notifies a user</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: dgilmore: And the Spins SIG is perfect to help get that done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">skvidal: thats a bandaid.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: if we're using SCM to store the kickstart files</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">what a crazy idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">any access to mock on a box == root access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">so even if we could do live images in mock, we can't give out that access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13: but we don't give "root access" to people on the builders and packages get built.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">script to checkout from CVS and build?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Live images don't work in mock, so the host system has to be running the OS that you wish to compose.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:20" class="time">14:20</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">f13: live images _need_ to work in mock.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: we may be waiting a long time for the selinux folks to get their act together on that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">thats the step the people don't seem to be taking and it makes me mad. I get it. Its work.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">it's work that we just can't do on our own</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">we can't magically make it happen</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">if the selinux guys can't get their act together its time we remove that 'feature'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath notes to the board this entire thing is an selinux context issue.</td><td><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">what might be best</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">is if we can spin up guests on demand for the production of a particular spin, then destroy that guest</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:21" class="time">14:21</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">only the spin maker would have login to the guest, and that solves our "root" issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: That's what I was just thinking</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">hm, yes...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: who has taken this issue to the SELinux team?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">getting resources to make that reasonable may still happen before we can "fix" selinux.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">bac</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">is f13 breathing over dwalsh's desk?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">jeremy has taken it up with them quite often</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">I have a few times</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal notes again - if we submitted the spin ks.cfg via the web</td><td><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath thinks jeremy did</td><td><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">I do believe pjones has once or twice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">then the spinmaker can do this automagically</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:22" class="time">14:22</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">istr a project to do just that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: right, it could spin up the guest on demand to handle the ks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">ok ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and then notify whomever submitted it and give them a link to download their spin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and a timelimit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">either submit via web or commit to CVS and tag it, then have it picked up from CVS</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">spining up guests on demand is a nasty hack, why can't we just build these things on the builders where the rest of what we build is built?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: SELINUX</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">that thing which we can't fix overnight</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: because we are not likely to "remove" SELinux</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: spinning up guests on demand is a nasty hack?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath thought we were talking about getting rid of selinux on the spins.</td><td><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I thought spinning up guests on demand is a supercool feature.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">creating guests on demand seems entirely within the point of virt</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">skvidal: to fix this problem. yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: why not just do an image-in-a-file and reset</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">image in a file needs to be kept up to date.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: yes, and?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: well, that's an Infra/Rel Eng technical discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mmcgrath: image in file can be re-created each time from scratch</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">and we're letting the selinux guys off the hook while shifting all the burden onto us. Which is stupid.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">which is the right thing to do for using it to make spins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">they need to fix their code.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">if they can't, we need to get rid of it.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:24" class="time">14:24</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: agreed about needing to fix the code</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">we don't get to make those kind of demands</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">mmcgrath: but we can't get rid of it that simply :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">So lets get the board to send them a little note that says "don't ignore us"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">because thats what they're doing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: well we can definitely request stuff gets fixed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">And we can't hold our community hostage while we deal with the SELinux demands.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">and we're letting them.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">and honestly, mock is around just because it's a bit faster than spinning up guests on demand to do builds</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: I don't think that's unfair at all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">if virt was faster, we'd absolutely be using virt instead of mock.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">it's /much/ safer.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:25"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath doesn't think any of the community is actually doing anything with selinux. I'm pretty sure its all RH people to which we have managers we can go to.</td><td><a href="#t14:25" class="time">14:25</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, let's assume this is solved... what other concerns might you have?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: mock and virt are not mutually exclusive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: request yes, demand and threaten to drop selinux all together no.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: that's inaccurate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">quaid: k, then I'm mistaken.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: kernel leakage, glibc issues, insta-root access</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: yum /rpm mismatches</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay, let's take a step back here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">needless to say what I'm hearing is "Infrastructure is accountable for the actions of Selinux" with regards to this problem.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: but it does happen that the community of developers happen to be mostly paid by _someone_, just not RHT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:26" class="time">14:26</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">1. do we know who to talk to about selinux and mock and spins?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: I can't say that because what we have in this conversation so far is generally sweeping statements, and I need more details as to why it is "their fault" than we are going to go into on IRC</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, glibc, yum/rpm mismatches would be responsibility of Spins SIG technical vetting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">1a. if so then what have they said?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: dwalsh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: but ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: I meant using mock in general, IE using RHEL5's kernel/yum/rpm/glibc to populate buildroots.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">quaid: I'm only angry because I've brought this issue up many times on FAB only to be met with "thats hard" or had no response at all.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: it sounds like we are being asked to take over in an escalation because >1 persons are not getting through</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:27" class="time">14:27</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: that's fine with me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">James Morris is the last person I talked to wrt selinux and rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: same for me there, I didn't have enough details from those conversations to know how to contribute to make it better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">His idea was to patch rpm, and he was working with rpm5 to do this</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">and I don't know where it went from there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">James Morris <jmorris@namei.org></td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid, me.. baseball bat...plane ticket == make it better</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">working with rpm*5*?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: quaid: mmcgrath: This seems like the right kind of issue for the Board to solve.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:28" class="time">14:28</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: rpm5?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I'll volunteer to coordinate across the people issues</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">Stephen Smalley is also involved in this issue.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">f13, if we're spinning up guests, they need not be RHEL5 guests</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but I might need someone (skvidal or dgilmore) to help with any of the techie parts I don't get yet</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">stickster: then somehow we need to hold selinux accountable.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">mdomsch: lets move this side conversation elsewhere, I think we're talking past eachother.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: ill straighten you out</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: I'm in, sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: apparently they're easier to "work with" than Red Hat's rpm team.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I know all those cats for years so am happy to do what I can to make it work.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">f13: according to whom?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: (which means "They took our patch, you didn't"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:29" class="time">14:29</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: the NSA folsk working on SELinux</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><td class="action" colspan="2">* skvidal bangs his head</td><td><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">until 2 weeks ago rpm inside rh didn't have a 'team'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it had panu</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">now there are 3 people working on rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">to solve that we get morris and walsh to tell NSA why and why not</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: morris isn't a RH employee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: I think we have pressure points left to squeeze here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: ah, I missed that transition</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">at least the mail I'm getting from him isn't from @redhat</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:30" class="time">14:30</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">no one uses rpm5 in any major distribution. If the NSA care about working with pld linux, that's fine</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">maybe he is and I'm confused.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f">mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">stickster: it'd be nice if they at least responded on f-a-b or took part in the conversation at least :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">but if they care about working with fedora and rhel then sending patches to rpm5 is the same as to /dev/null</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: I'll lend a hand to quaid to get that done.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: finger says he's with RHT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">the big thing here is that this just isn't an easy thign to "fix"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: in your office :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">okay, let's table this - quaid can you bring a handful of us together about it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">skvidal: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: ah, either there is another James Morris, or he's sending mail from outside @rh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:31" class="time">14:31</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: the latter I reckon :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">quaid: also let's make it a phone call, unless anyone objects</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">skvidal: good idea, thx</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">We need to move on to taking the community Q&A.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">stickster: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">yay questions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mmcgrath: thanks for vehemence, btw :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: mmcgrath++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath <3 fedora :) happy to do it</td><td><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: I have a question - according to the rawhide report today fedora is switching to dpkg and apt - why is that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:32" class="time">14:32</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">well, here's the first question just to generate some conversation.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Not necessarily speaking as One Voice from the Fedora Board, but individually:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">skvidal: yum was just not good enough ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">It's slow.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:33" class="time">14:33</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">what are some of the things in the Fedora World that you are each hoping to see happen in the F10 timeframe?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">dgilmore: yah, I know - I'm gonna go slit my wrists - remember 'down, not across'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">could be distro related, or other Fedora Project stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">ok, who goes first?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">skvidal: Red Hat is buying canonical and ubuntu to create the Red Hat Linux Project.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Somebody -v f13</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: there are a lot of changes planned for yum and rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, an open robotics SIG!!!!!!!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:34" class="time">14:34</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">Fubuntu, an Ubuntu from a Fedora spin</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">skvidal</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">spevack: specifically a fairly significant change to the rpm python bindings to make them less opaque and chock-ful of crazy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">spevack, I personally want to see more contributors. Particularily in QA and testing and triaging worlds. I see a lot of great things happening there and a lot of room for growth.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, I want a Fedora version of SongFight, where the combatants use CC-BY-SA licensing for the submissions</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:35"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid has a hard time thinking six minutes ahead, let alone six months</td><td><a href="#t14:35" class="time">14:35</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid, then give us your six second views</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">caillon: more coffee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">i would like to see the default fedora spins fixed so we don't have multiple things that all do the same thing somewhat differently</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">heh. +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">quaid: No fair worming out of answering!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:36" class="time">14:36</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: F10 is where we catch more air from the momentum we are generating of "Fedora is more than just a Linux distribution"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, i want an initiative aimed at recuriting women contributors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I want to use Fedora as an example of how to create a resurgence in volunteerism.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack: that spoleeba comment above was to you in answer :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">spevack, all of these I'll have time to work on...when people fail to vote for me in the next board election</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">spoleeba: No such luck, member 4 life!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">where's my branding iron.....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: you need 'volunteer channel sales', where we connect with groups of volunteers looking for something good to do, and we help them do it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: I want to have a cli echo of MyFedora, that is a python library stack and command line application to abstract many of our tools, so that you can call things like "fedora-packager commit" and "fedora-packager build" and things like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">stickster: the University stuff is a great example of that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: without having to know CVS and make, and whatever. To ease new contributor training, and to make it easier to change out the sub-systems over time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but there are other ones</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">I want more corporate contributors (people time, cash) to push bleeding edge development</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:38" class="time">14:38</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">mdomsch: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, SUMMIT!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555">spevack</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">Ok, so let's talk about about MyFedora a little bit then. Who wants to tell the people out there a bit more about its purpose, plans, schedule, etc?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">spevack: I actually want to have something we can do a hackfest on at the next FUDCon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">for example, our local Gray Bears (senior advocates) do computer recycling; somewhere after that a new computer comes out, and why isn't it running Fedora?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: is that another form of 'volunteerism'?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, god dang it i wish i could make the summit so I can make a challange to corporate 'partners'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">quaid: ++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">quaid, absolutely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">mdomsch: good :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">sorry jesse</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:39" class="time">14:39</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I was just kidding before, that wasn't my doing!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:40"><td class="action" colspan="2">* dgilmore would like to see more direction for Fedora</td><td><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spevack: my above about e.g. Gray Bears is my thinking about how we can do a volunteer channel, like the channel sales we see in ISVs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">stickster</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Somebody drop $1M on my lap.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:40" class="time">14:40</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">dgilmore: what is more direction? and by whom?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">notting</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">one other fedora 10 thing is that it would be nice to see more than 2 of the 33 'Features' be done and driven from people outside of RH</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">for us to haave clearer log term focus</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">notting++</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, i think we need to have multiple release scoping for features</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">quaid: for us to know what things we want to see for F11 and F12</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">dgilmore, any thoughts on what the direction should be?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">notting, with the idea that you have a halfway point milestone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b">dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">caillon: one thing i would like to see is easier appliance building</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93">mdomsch</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">spoleeba, I think we do to some extent; features are proposed, some land in the current release, some don't...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">caillon</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">left? right? north? south? ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:41" class="time">14:41</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, its not intended that way</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: it easily could be</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: in fact</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, they are planned to get in by the end of that release and then its a failure if its punted</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, its the wrong way to think bout it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: you could just propose an update to the features to allow that, FESCo votes, it's done</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">spoleeba: then we market it like that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">mdomsch, especially for features that could use some..rabble rousing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a">quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">which might help the people not paid by $dayjob to work on features to get one in</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:42" class="time">14:42</a></td></tr> <tr id="t14:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">spoleeba</th><