EPEL/Meetings/20070311

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Meeting 20070311

Attending

Summary

Then we could use a wiki page and a branch method similar to the old Extras method for the EPEL start phase

Note: there are some takes on the schedule at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule that could need some help. Anybody for example interested in setting up a epel-release package, that people can install by "rpm -ivh foo.src.rpm" and contains key and repo files for EPEL so it is automatically used by up2date in RHEL 4, yum in RHEL 5 and yum on CentOS 4 + 5?

Full log 

00:00              * | thl looks around
00:00 <         thl> | according to my clock it's EPEL meeting time
00:00              * | quaid kicks daylight savings in the shins
00:00 <         thl> | ping dgilmore mmcgrath
00:00 <    mmcgrath> | thl: pong
00:00 <         thl> | hah
00:01 <         thl> | quaid, yeah, we didn't change yet
00:01 <    mmcgrath> | we had dst last night so it may be odd for people to get in.
00:01 <         thl> | we'll change in two weeks from now
00:01 <         thl> | I'm fine moing the meeting time so the effective meeting time stay the same
00:01              * | nirik is here, but also sick and on the phone. ;)_
00:01            --> | jmbuser (John Babich)  has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01              * | thl has some food in the oven that will be read in 15 minutes
00:01 <    mmcgrath> | I've got an alarm clock that changes automatically but its at least 7 years old. I woner what will happen this year.
00:03              * | thl wonder if we should start the meeting or wait another hour
00:03 <    mmcgrath> | hmm
00:03 <     EvilBob> | waiting and hour would be bad
00:04              * | thl wonders if waiting an hour would be the wrong direction
00:04 <         thl> | stupid dst changes
00:04 <     jmbuser> | EvilBob: so you want to wait an hour? :-)
00:05 <     EvilBob> | thl: FDSCo is waiting for the room
00:05 <         thl> | EvilBob, k, noted, thx :)
00:05 <         thl> | EvilBob, is that a regular meeting? then add it to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel ;-)
00:06 <         thl> | well, then let's start
00:06 <    dgilmore> | pong
00:06 <         thl> | I updated the schedule a bit
00:06 <         thl> | hi dgilmore
00:06 <         thl> | the two most important things afaics are:
00:06 <         thl> | get RHEL5 onto the builders
00:07 <         thl> | so people can actually start
00:07 <         thl> | and find some kind oft shortbut for branching for people that have a lot of pacakges
00:07 <         thl> | mmcgrath, quaid, do you have access to RHEL5 already?
00:07 <         thl> | could you get it onto the builders?
00:07 <         thl> | dgilmore, seems quite busy already afaics
00:08 <    mmcgrath> | thl: Possibly, I'm waiting to hear back from the cusotmer service people.
00:08 <    dgilmore> | thl: there is supposed to be a way using up2date to pull all teh packages  i need to work it out.
00:08 <    mmcgrath> | Just so the people here know for the future, our licenses have to go through Red Hat's customer service.
00:08 <       quaid> | mmcgrath has much better theoretical chance than I do
00:08              * | dgilmore has not used up2date in many years
00:09 <    mmcgrath> | and be extra careful about saying you need RHEL entitlements for Fedora not "Fedora Entitlements" Someone about killed me.
00:09 <       nirik> | thl: is the centos 5 beta out yet? last time I checked it was not...
00:09              * | dgilmore really wants to just be able to rsync it
00:09 <    dgilmore> | nirik: soon
00:09 <         thl> | nirik, not yet; it was supposed to be out some days ago but then they delayed it "to fix some more bugs"
00:09 <       quaid> | mmcgrath: are you forming an internal group through CS for all Fedora machines?
00:09 <       nirik> | also, I think we should require all EL-4 branches to also branch EL-5... we don't want to drop packages in upgrade, do we?
00:09 <         thl> | mmcgrath, for now it would be enough to get RHEL5
00:09 <         thl> | building against the beta1 sucks
00:10 <         thl> | I don't want to tell people to actually start before we have RHEL5 in the buildroots
00:10 <    mmcgrath> | quaid: We actually have 150 RHEL licenses (I didn't realize that)
00:10 <         thl> | nirik, well, there are some people that moved to core (and thus to RHEL5); we don#t want branches for those
00:10 <       nirik> | well, it's also hard to start when you don't have any way of testing it (at least I prefer to be able to test builds on a new release)
00:10 <    dgilmore> | mmcgrath: i noticed that the other day
00:11 <    mmcgrath> | I'm still trying to get in touch with the right people to see what we can do with them and how to renew, they expire in May currently.
00:11 <         thl> | nirik, I think it's okay to build blindly atm
00:11 <         thl> | as stuff goes into a testing branch
00:11 <    dgilmore> | RHEL 5 rhgb is ugly
00:11 <         thl> | and hopefully CentOS5 will be out soon
00:11 <       quaid> | mmcgrath: I recently set up a new group for the online services, I'll find the details and fwd. to you
00:11 <    mmcgrath> | quaid: danke
00:11 <    dgilmore> | thl: hopefully before the end of march
00:12 <         thl> | dgilmore, I hope so
00:12              * | dgilmore installed beta2 as a kvm guest last night
00:12 <         thl> | so, who takes over the RHEL5 on the builders task? mmcgrath?
00:12 <    dgilmore> | thl: im fine with doing it
00:12 <         thl> | is it possible to get RHEL5 until next week?
00:13 <    mmcgrath> | I'll get the content (rpms) then dgilmore or I will set up the configs.
00:13 <         thl> | dgilmore, k, also fine for me :)
00:13 <    dgilmore> | i just need to work out the best way to do so and maintain  them
00:13 <    mmcgrath> | I wonder if we have a TAM or something :-D
00:13 <         thl> | dgilmore, mmcgrath, well, is there any chance to get RHEL5 stuff onto the builders by next week?
00:13 <         thl> | s/by/during/
00:14            <-- | FrancescoUgolini has quit ("Quit")
00:14              * | thl looks after his food in the oven
00:14 <    dgilmore> | thl: :)  it is doable in one way or another
00:15 <    mmcgrath> | thl: I think that should be doable, I've been having trouble finding the right email address to contact.
00:15 <         thl> | dgilmore, mmcgrath that would be great; thx for your help
00:16              * | thl will leave soon for a while to eat the stuff that cooking
00:16              * | mmcgrath too might have a small interuption this morning
00:17 <         thl> | sorry for the trouble
00:17 <    mmcgrath> | and there it is, br
00:17 <    mmcgrath> | b
00:17 <         thl> | the schedule is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule
00:17 <         thl> | maybe you guys want to talk about other things?
00:17 <         thl> | or we stop and meet again next week
00:18 <         thl> | what about the steering issues thimm brought up?
00:18 <         thl> | should we discuss them now?
00:18 <    dgilmore> | there are alot of people not here
00:18              * | thl now afk for a while; sorry
00:18 <    dgilmore> | quaid: how goes your work?
00:19 <       quaid> | dgilmore: heh, which?  for the most part, pretty good
00:19 <    dgilmore> | quaid: :)  cool anything to report in regards to EPEL
00:20 <       quaid> | ah, you mean, on this topic :)
00:21 <       quaid> | I haven't found the right people to propose subscriptions for EPEL maintainers
00:21 <    dgilmore> | cool
00:21 <       nirik> | dgilmore: I see there isn't a epel el5 version in bugzilla... should there be along with el4? or not until we get buildroots, etc spun up and happy?
00:21 <       quaid> | I may want to coordinate with mmcgrath and have those added as aspecial subs to the Fedora group
00:22 <    dgilmore> | nirik: i asked for it when it was setup and he didint do it
00:22 <       nirik> | bummer
00:22 <    dgilmore> | i figured ill bug him when RHEL 5 is released as final
00:22              * | quaid had several Firefox crashes while writing up CommunicationPlan, but there is at least a start there now
00:22 <    dgilmore> | quaid: possibly
00:23 <       quaid> | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/CommunicationPlan
00:23 <       quaid> | what I'm hoping is ...
00:23 <       quaid> | anyone here who knows something that should be in there, just pile it into the page
00:23 <       quaid> | if we get enough info, we'll spin off a stand-alone page for that topic;
00:24 <       quaid> | otherwise it can be covered in short there.
00:24 <    dgilmore> | sounds good
00:24              * | thl back at the keyboard, with some food besides him
00:25              * | thl will take a closer look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/CommunicationPlan later
00:25 <       quaid> | thl's food is on the keyboard!
00:26 <         thl> | btw, when do we plan to remove all those "PLEASE READ: This is currently a being worked on and not yet finished -- consider it a draft and as not yet official" warning from the wiki?
00:26 <    dgilmore> | thl: what do you have to eat?
00:26 <       nirik> | I would say we could do that when we offically announce and move things from testing to a main repo?
00:27 <       quaid> | personally, I need to spend a few hours going over the language clarity, etc., before I want to remove draft warnings :)
00:27 <       quaid> | but I'm always wanting to do that, so don't let that hold us back
00:28 <         thl> | dgilmore, some pasta
00:28 <    dgilmore> | thl: :
00:28 <    dgilmore> | ;)  yum
00:29 <         thl> | quaid, I'd say we should plan to remove those in two or three weeks
00:29 <         thl> | quaid, so there is still some time to fix all those stupid typos and grammatical mistakes thl made ;-)
00:29 <       quaid> | :)
00:30 <         thl> | shall we plan 20070401 as target date for remoal of those warnings?
00:30 <    dgilmore> | wy is rhn down again
00:30 <         f13> | dgilmore: RHEL5 syncup
00:30 <    dgilmore> | thl: sounds good
00:30 <         thl> | I can send a mail to the list asking people to look over it
00:30 <    dgilmore> | f13: ahh
00:31 <       quaid> | new code, too
00:31 <    dgilmore> | f13: do you know of anyone we could bug that would let us be able to rsync trees from cvs-int
00:32 <    mmcgrath> | Sorry guys I have to scoot, an out of town friend just dropped by :-/
00:32 <    dgilmore> | mmcgrath: have fun
00:32 <         thl> | mmcgrath, yeah, have fun!
00:33 <         thl> | btw, is anybody willig to work out two small scripts?
00:33 <         thl> | so make it a bit easier for dgilmore to branch packages for EPEL?
00:34 <         thl> | one script that looks at owners.list for all packages owned by foo
00:34 <         thl> | and another script that creates owners.eple.list entries and the branches from a string like "EL-4 foo@bar baz foobar ..."
00:35 <         thl> | quaid, btw, what's your take on the steering issues?
00:35 <         thl> | should we have a steering committee soon?
00:35 <       quaid> | thl: sorry, which?
00:35 <       quaid> | oh
00:36 <       quaid> | are we prepared to have an election for it?
00:36 <         thl> | quaid, I'd say FESCo should appoint people
00:36 <         thl> | and then we target for a election three months later
00:37 <       nirik> | so all thats just so we can vote on fedora-usermanagement?
00:37 <    dgilmore> | thl: if we have one thats how i would say we do it
00:37 <         thl> | nirik, well, I think it's a general problem
00:37 <       quaid> | thl: that's interesting, in that I don't think FP has a process for that
00:37 <         thl> | the question "who decides" in not regulated afaics
00:38 <         thl> | I can ask FESCo what they would prefer
00:38 <       quaid> | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects
00:39 <       quaid> | it's the last section
00:39 <         thl> | quaid, I'd say we should not make a official project yet
00:39              * | thl takes a look
00:39 <       quaid> | right, so to have a steering committee implies formal project
00:40              * | thl wonders why can't we have a SIG that has a steering committee without being a official project
00:40              * | quaid adds anchors and toC to that page
00:40 <       quaid> | thl: maybe we can
00:40 <       quaid> | thl: in which case, appointment is the form, i guess
00:41 <         thl> | quaid, FESCo should be able to regulate it
00:41 <         thl> | the question still is if we want one...
00:41 <       quaid> | maybe wait until the SIG is too big?
00:42 <         thl> | quaid, or until problems that need to be solved can't get solved without an real consensus
00:42 <       quaid> | yeah
00:43 <         thl> | other opinions? dgilmore, nirik ?
00:43 <       nirik> | well, I hate to add a bunch of overhead just to solve one contentious issue...
00:44 <    dgilmore> | nirik: indeed
00:44 <       nirik> | didn't ensc say fedora-user-mgmt won't work on EL4? we could then remove it for now and let fedora come up with a solution down the road?
00:44 <         thl> | nirik, well, having a steering committee might makes things easier sometimes, too
00:44 <    dgilmore> | i think if we have a steering committe we are likely to diverge from fedora
00:44 <         thl> | nirik, the lates version doesn#t work on EL4
00:44 <         thl> | nirik, older ones do
00:44 <    dgilmore> | id like to do whatever we can to make sure we dont
00:45 <       nirik> | dgilmore: +1
00:45 <    dgilmore> | thl: the version in EL-4  should be FC-3's
00:45 <    dgilmore> | so it should work
00:46 <         thl> | yeah, it should
00:47 <         thl> | so we leave this open as see how it envolves over time?
00:48 <       nirik> | I think it should be possible to come to some technical consensus... not easily, but it should be possible
00:49 <       nirik> | I do see ensc has been putting up ideas for what should be addressed in a replacement, which is good.
00:49 <         thl> | k
00:49 <         thl> | so anything else?
00:50 <         thl> | or shall we adjourn and meet again next week?
00:50 <       nirik> | do we want to look at a new meeting time where more of the people from the list can make it?
00:51 <       nirik> | might help solve some of the issues if we can get everyone talking...
00:51 <       nirik> | s/talking/typing/
00:51 <         thl> | nirik, I asked once on the mailing list if people would like a new meeting time
00:51 <         thl> | one or two weeks ago
00:51 <         thl> | I got no replay
00:51 <         thl> | reply
00:51 <       quaid> | we should discuss it on list :)
00:51 <         thl> | but I agree, we should ask once again on the list
00:51 <       quaid> | now that we all experienced DST pain, it will be back on people's minds
00:52 <       nirik> | huh... not sure I ever say it... ok.
00:52 <       nirik> | ever saw it. Sorry, cold meds must be affecting my typing. ;)
00:53 <         thl> | nirik, I think it was in a meeting summary
00:53 <         thl> | so anything else?
00:53 <         thl> | or close for today?
00:53 <       nirik> | ok, we should post again now about it in it's own post. Can you do that thl ? or would you like me to?
00:53 <    dgilmore> | i have nothing else
00:54 <    dgilmore> | my time available for meetings is limited
00:54 <    dgilmore> | i cant do it during work time
00:54 <         thl> | nirik, I'll do
00:54              * | thl will close the meeting in 30
00:54              * | thl will close the meeting in 15
00:55            <-- | jmbuser  has left #fedora-meeting ( "Leaving")
00:55 <         thl> | -- MARK -- Meeting end
00:55 <         thl> | thx guys
00:55 <       nirik> | dgilmore: yeah, but after business hours some weeknight might work?
00:56 <       nirik> | thanks thl
00:57 <         thl> | nirik, thx in the middle of the night for me....
00:57 <         thl> | s/thx/that's/
00:57 <       nirik> | whats your TZ offset? if it's late enough here wouldn't it be your morning?
00:57              * | quaid notes that FDSCo is meeting currently in #fedora-docs
00:57 <         thl> | everything later in the evening than FESCo is problematic for me
00:57 <         thl> | nirik, UTC-1
00:58 <         thl> | nirik, UTC-2 when in two weeks, when we get DST
00:58 <         thl> | I'm on the yeboard at round about 6:40 local time in the mornings
00:58 <       nirik> | quaid: might suggest switching to here? it's nice to have all the meetings in one place so people can lurk and hear about things they normally don't know about...
00:58 <    dgilmore> | nirik: yep  but i think its to late for europe
00:58 <       quaid> | nirik: it's an ongoing discussion at the moment, actually
00:59              * | thl really likes #fedora-meeting -- that way one gets a chance to look what the others are discussing
00:59 <    dgilmore> | thl: :)  yep i like it to
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