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<h1>Fedora Summit (November 2006)</h1>
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<tr id="t14:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| *yawn* time to start the day</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:15" class="time">14:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| f13, it's a nice day to start, no? :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| s/nice/fun</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:23" class="time">14:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| off to work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:37"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | glezos has quit ("Leaving")</td><td><a href="#t14:37" class="time">14:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:46"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | jwb (Josh Boyer) [n=jwboyer@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t14:46" class="time">14:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t14:50"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | Lovechild (David Nielsen) [n=david@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t14:50" class="time">14:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:13"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | danpb (gaim) [i=berrange@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:13" class="time">15:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:21"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | samfw (sam folk-williams) [i=samfw@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:21" class="time">15:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:23"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | glezos (Dimitris Glezos) [n=glezos@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:23" class="time">15:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:38"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | markmc (Mark McLoughlin) [i=markmc@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:38" class="time">15:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:45"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | sankarshan has quit ("/me goes off to take a break")</td><td><a href="#t15:45" class="time">15:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:50"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | quaid (Karsten Wade) [n=quaid@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:50" class="time">15:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:51"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | smooge (Stephen J Smoogen) [n=smooge@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:51" class="time">15:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| f13, starting soon?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:54" class="time">15:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:55"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | smooge has come to the Cabal meeting representing the Gnomes of Sandia</td><td><a href="#t15:55" class="time">15:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:56"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | thl googles for Gnomes of Sandia</td><td><a href="#t15:56" class="time">15:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:57"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jwb represents nobody</td><td><a href="#t15:57" class="time">15:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| we are an offshoot of the Gnomes of Zurich.. but had a falling out of the great GPL war of 1994</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:57" class="time">15:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| jwb: then so long as nobody informs the community we'll be fine..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jwb: we just got wireless going</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:58" class="time">15:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| waiting on a few more people to show up.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| f13, bah. wireless is for mortals. real men just send brain waves directly to freenode</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | gregdek (gaim) [n=gdk@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t15:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| well other than Rex.. everyone should be from the same timezone.. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t15:59" class="time">15:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | gregdek has changed the topic to: Fedora Summit, Day 1: Setting the Agenda</td><td><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Howdy do, folks.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">@greendiseas</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| hey fools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| gregdek, so are you "the voice"?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| As everyone gets started, /me wanders off to the can. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| howdy ho gregerino</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| I am the voice, yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| k</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:00"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | quaid hip-hop handshake and hug to gregdek </td><td><a href="#t16:00" class="time">16:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| greendisease: howdy dude</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| gregdek will be the first voice</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:01"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | abostrom has quit ("Leaving")</td><td><a href="#t16:01" class="time">16:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which means I'll not pay attention for a while.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">@greendiseas</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| quaid: w0ow, youre up early</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">| greendisease: weekly Enterprise Marketing meeting ... 9:30 a EST *ugh*</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:02" class="time">16:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:03"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | abostrom (Alexander Bostrom) [n=abo@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t16:03" class="time">16:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| quaid: Yo, whassup, my brutha.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:05" class="time">16:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| All righty.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:05" class="time">16:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| So today is probably going to be around the issues regarding the opening of infrastructure.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:07" class="time">16:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| I hope and presume that someone is logging the channel, since this is where I'm taking notes for the day. ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:09" class="time">16:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Max speaks... "this is the time to do a lot of the things with Fedora that we've been talking about for the last few months. We've got management focus to really kick some ass right now."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:09" class="time">16:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| full logs can be made available for only 3 payments of $15.95. if you act now, we'll throw in the logs of #fedora-extras for free!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:10" class="time">16:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:10" class="time">16:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> danpb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">| i'll do logs for only $14.95 & throw in a free pony !</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:10" class="time">16:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:10"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | spot (spot) [i=spot@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t16:10" class="time">16:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| "...we've also got the possibility to be a bit subversive. We spend a lot of time trying to get people on-board internally with the Fedora plan, but the times comes when, if people don't get on board, we route around them. That's where we are with Fedora right now."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:10" class="time">16:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:11"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | jbowes (James Bowes) [i=jbowes@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t16:11" class="time">16:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| "...we've been talking about a world in which anyone can contribute to Core, or 'opening Core' or whatever, and anyone can participate. That's what we're trying to get to."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:11" class="time">16:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| (General nodding and agreement in the room.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:11" class="time">16:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| is there an audio stream or a dialin?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:12" class="time">16:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy speaks: "So let me play devil's advocate: what does opening Core gain us?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:12" class="time">16:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| spot, no. i asked that already</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| spot: There is not, sorry. But if you want to throw something in, let me know. I know I'm a poor medium here.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| KDE is the most obvious "why open core" answer</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Max: "...what we gain is actually being a community distribution, run in a community way."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse: "Removing roadblocks to community contribution."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:13"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | gregdek mentions Spot's comment.</td><td><a href="#t16:13" class="time">16:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse: "When Red Hat *maybe* cares about 500 packages at a time, max."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:14" class="time">16:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy: "Continuing to play devil's advocate, blah blah blah."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:15" class="time">16:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:15" class="time">16:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| it would also help to raise our profile which seems important, especially shaking that "red hat lite" image</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:15" class="time">16:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Warren: "Lowering the roadblocks to contribution makes Fedora an actual meritocracy."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:16" class="time">16:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> jbowes</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">| it would be nice to not have two different build systems, etc. as well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:17" class="time">16:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| ... this telephone game is going to give me a headache.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:17" class="time">16:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jbowes, yes. that doesn't really mean that Core has to be open</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:17" class="time">16:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| (playing devil's advocate with jeremy)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:18" class="time">16:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| is there no polycom in the room?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:18" class="time">16:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | spot can set up a toll-free bridge</td><td><a href="#t16:18" class="time">16:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| spot, that would be nice...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:18" class="time">16:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> jbowes</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">| jwb: agreed. but the two would be easier if done together</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:19" class="time">16:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jbowes, sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:19" class="time">16:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:19"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | greendisease hits spot over the head</td><td><a href="#t16:19" class="time">16:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">@greendiseas</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| i told you you should just fly here</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:19" class="time">16:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| spot: We're still trying to figure out if we can use the phone in this office. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:20" class="time">16:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| greendisease: sure. clear my calendar for the next two days.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:20" class="time">16:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:20"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | spot points out that he gets paid to eat braiiiins, not work on Fedora.</td><td><a href="#t16:20" class="time">16:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">@greendiseas</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| word</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:21" class="time">16:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Rex: "You know what, it all starts with a policy decision. We can all agree that we can change the definition of 'what ships' as 'what's in the Fedora Universe," not necessarily what's in Core. And we can start the ball rolling right now by moving a ton of packages from Core to Extras.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:22" class="time">16:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy: "We don't want to necessarily wait to move packages from Core to Extras. If we wait until we've got all the revision control questions sorted, it gets harder to move immediately."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:23" class="time">16:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| that depends</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:24" class="time">16:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Max: "Here's the trivial case we must solve. Thunderbird spec file is broken. It's a one-line fix. Twenty people post the fix in Bugzilla. It blocks on a RH engineer having time to commit the change. That's broken, and we need to fix it."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:26" class="time">16:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy: "Which is more important to fix immediately: build system, or source control. Build system is what gets us moving now."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:26" class="time">16:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| well given the glacial pace at which people normally make big decisions would it not be good to move as many package now then open the question of a cvs replacement to the extras people. That way we get the benefit of being able to fix stuff now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:27" class="time">16:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:28"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | gregdek speaks Lovechild's mind. :)</td><td><a href="#t16:28" class="time">16:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| just moving packages from one repo to another doesn't really solve anything though </td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:29" class="time">16:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse responds: "We need more than plague to do this. Something that has package collections, package tagging, freezes, etc. And rather than building that infrastructure around CVS, we might need to change that first."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:29" class="time">16:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse responds from the Build Master perspective, heh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:29" class="time">16:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| Jesse speaks wisdom though, no reason to build a house on a foundation of quicksand</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:30" class="time">16:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| f13, be careful with the term Freeze</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:30" class="time">16:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Extras doesn't freeze</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:30" class="time">16:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Sounds like that's something we'll be discussing. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:30" class="time">16:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Looks like Extras and Core folks will have to meet in the middle to figure out what a "release" is going to look like.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:31" class="time">16:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| most likely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:31" class="time">16:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| In a brave new world, how do we come up with a concept of "release" for CD spins, etc., that can contain both Extras and Core?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:31" class="time">16:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy: "This is why it takes Debian 3 years for a release. This is why Ubuntu has very different rules for Main and Universe. This is why OpenSuSE... well, has OpenSuSE released?"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:32" class="time">16:32</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Much talking about "what policies need to exist distinguishing Core and Extras."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:34" class="time">16:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| the way i see it, Core and Extras is just a logical line that is materialized into a physical means via separate repositories</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:34" class="time">16:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| merge into a common repo, and you have what really exists</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:34" class="time">16:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| you have fedora. then you can talk about what packages comprise a Fedora Base</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:35" class="time">16:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Blizzard arrives! He looks like he slept in a box under the freeway.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:35" class="time">16:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| oh.. mental images.. the horror</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:35" class="time">16:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #539e9e"> jbowes</th><td class="text" style="color: #539e9e">| hehe</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:35" class="time">16:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse: "Figuring out the use case for what we ship tells us what we target for freeze, while the community continues to roll forward."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:36" class="time">16:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:36" class="time">16:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Blizzard was up until 2am working on OLPC, poor bastard.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:36" class="time">16:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| DaveJ: "Security folks are also tracking stuff somewhat in Core."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:36" class="time">16:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| they can do that in a merged repo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:37" class="time">16:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Warren is drawing a smiley face on the whiteboard. No, it's a hat. No, it's a dinner plate! No, it's a conceptual map of the Fedora Universe!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:37" class="time">16:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| f13: Maybe some what similar to what rpath does with conary.. premade isos and isos on demand?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:37" class="time">16:37</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| No, it's actually a dinner plate.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:37" class="time">16:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| packages don't magically disappear or change names when put into a different repo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:37" class="time">16:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:38"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | gregdek waits to pass along jwb's wisdom.</td><td><a href="#t16:38" class="time">16:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| ugh, please refrain from calling any of my drivel "wisdom" ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:38" class="time">16:38</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #a25555"> samfw</th><td class="text" style="color: #a25555">| i think he was being sarcastic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:38" class="time">16:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jesse: "At the end of the day, people will want to spin ISOs based on both 'stuff we call Core' and 'stuff we call Extras'. Therefore, we must either freeze everything, or nothing at all."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:39" class="time">16:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Blizzard: "We really need to shrink what we call 'the Base'. The stuff that *really* needs to be *stable* is actually fairly small."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:40" class="time">16:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Jeremy: "What is the platform is a really big one."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:40" class="time">16:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Wow. Blizzard is talking all about his "Bigger Tent."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:41" class="time">16:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:41"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | gregdek has changed the topic to: Fedora Summit, Day 1: Setting the Agenda. Brought to you by Smiling Bob.</td><td><a href="#t16:41" class="time">16:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| So I have proposed THE LARGE GOAL, which is this: "Allowing anybody to contribute packages to the Universe, and allowing anybody to build their own distro based on that package set."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:43" class="time">16:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| one could see how derived projects would benefit from blizzards tiny stable base and then a concept of say a gnome-desktop but then the variantions become endless and if we go down that road looking at rbuilder might not be a bad idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:43" class="time">16:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| And we're now discussing this philosophically to make sure it's the right goal. (Which we seem to agree on.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:43" class="time">16:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| one of Fedora' great strenghts is clearly that it's a nice base for a derived project: RHEL, OLPC, PS3' OS.. all build on Fedora. We should definitely hang on tightly to that goal</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:45" class="time">16:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:45" class="time">16:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657"> thl</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">| +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:45" class="time">16:45</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| while a bit to technical for this stage in the game I would urge having a look at what rbuilder does since it seems to be good at that task specificly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:46" class="time">16:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Blizzard: "We should also CELEBRATE all of these downstreams, which we've never really done."</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:47" class="time">16:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| what does that mean?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:47" class="time">16:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| I'm trying to find that out. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:47" class="time">16:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| completely agreed, I'm often sad that we don't congratulate people like Yellow dog for selecting Fedora as the base for a massive deployment</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:47" class="time">16:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Basically, if Fedora is so sweet, we should be bragging about that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:47" class="time">16:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| General nodding and agreement.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| we do...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Apparently not enough. ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| or is he talking about taking out ads in NYTimes or something?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| anyway, doesn't matter much. need more rah, rah for fedora. got it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| press releases and general community praising would be a good place to start.. </td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:48" class="time">16:48</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #5959a9"> nasrat</th><td class="text" style="color: #5959a9">| but some downstreams are appalling about pushing patches back up</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:49" class="time">16:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #5959a9"> nasrat</th><td class="text" style="color: #5959a9">| despite much prodding</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:49" class="time">16:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| maybe we could try and give Fedora Advocates a bigger profile, I would love to go out and preach the fedora gospel some more</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:49" class="time">16:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| nasrat, yeah. i'm a bit cautious about celebration ATM too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:49" class="time">16:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| on the other hand if the fedora community enmass praised these people for selecting Fedora out of the many platforms to build on, we could get them to partake a bit in the fun. I think we should at least try to reach out to these people, if for nothing but to tell the world that there's Fedora in <foo>.. </td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:52" class="time">16:52</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| OK, so we are going to state, clearly, the reasons we're choosing to open Fedora:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:52" class="time">16:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 1. A bigger tent. More people involved means a better distro.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:52" class="time">16:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 2. Allows for Fedora use cases that we don't envision: innovation happens at the edges.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:52" class="time">16:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 3. Makes it easier to build downstream distros -- which people are already doing, so we can at least make it easier. (RHEL, OLPC, PS3, etc.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:53" class="time">16:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| it should probably be innovation happens everywhere and we want to allow it to happen freely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:54" class="time">16:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| otherwise it implies that base doesn't innovate or that we dont.. which would be playing down the efforts of the platform community</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:55" class="time">16:55</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| (Warren is busily restating point 1 as "meeting the community halfway." So let it be recorded.)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:55" class="time">16:55</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:56"><td class="nickchange" colspan="2">--- | apuch is now known as wilee</td><td><a href="#t16:56" class="time">16:56</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 4. Making it easier for downstream to commit their interesting changes back to us.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:56" class="time">16:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Spot calls Aurora retarded. And he would know.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:57" class="time">16:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Now general talk about making the build tools available.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:58" class="time">16:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| But we can do more.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:58" class="time">16:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| I LIKE COCAINE.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:58" class="time">16:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| speaking of freebasing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:58" class="time">16:58</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| what?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Nothing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Moving on:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | gregdek has changed the topic to: Fedora Summit, Day 1: 11am. Identifying the Problems to be Solved for Opening Fedora.</td><td><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| Max is making a list on the board. To wit:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jwb: Fedora is a freebase from which to smoke your own flavor of crack</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t16:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| f13, ah thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t16:59" class="time">16:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| f13: just don't do a Richard Pryor on us now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 1. Build Infrastructure for both packages and distro.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 2. Source infrastructure.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 3. Release methodology: freezes, updates.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">| 4. Architectures.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| 4 can tie into 1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:00" class="time">17:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:01" class="time">17:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| it can</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:01" class="time">17:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:01"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | pink_trout (Pink Ponies) [n=TroutFis@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t17:01" class="time">17:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #5959a9"> nasrat</th><td class="text" style="color: #5959a9">| gregdek: there is nothing hard about posting to mailing lists (eg anaconda-devel-list) but people consistently fail to push patches that way</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:01" class="time">17:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:02"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | greendisease sets modes [#fedora-summit +o gregdek] </td><td><a href="#t17:02" class="time">17:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 5. QA and Testing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:02" class="time">17:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #5fb4b4"> dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #5fb4b4">| gregdek: aurora isint quite retarded its like the dyslexic slightly dysfunctional half brother you dont want :D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:02" class="time">17:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #b86161"> wilee</th><td class="text" style="color: #b86161">| Is sun java going to be in fc7 ? </td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:02" class="time">17:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wilee, offtopic at the moment</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:02" class="time">17:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Bits aren't dropping until March of 2007... so, no. And off-topic. ;-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:03" class="time">17:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #9b519b"> spot</th><td class="text" style="color: #9b519b">| sun java will go into Fedora when source code is available. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:03" class="time">17:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #b86161"> wilee</th><td class="text" style="color: #b86161">| sorry , but this is a big deal to a lot of folks </td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:03" class="time">17:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b">@greendiseas</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">| we understanfd, its just not part pof the discussion at this point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:04" class="time">17:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| It's a big deal to us too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:05" class="time">17:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| But we've got plenty of time to think about it, heh.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:05" class="time">17:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 3. Release methodology: freezes, updates, lifecycle, branding.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:07" class="time">17:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 0. Platform. Fedora Standard Base, flavors, Live CD, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:08" class="time">17:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| so are we going for an Ubuntu like setup where the Fedora project commits to providing a base plus a desktop then leaves alternatives to the community in a collarobative fasion? Also how would that suit people like the OLPC who might want influence on base</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:10" class="time">17:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 6. Project Hosting.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:11" class="time">17:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| if we have a distributed revision control system hosting everything on Fedora servers wouldn't be a major issue since the overlapping between spec files and packages wouldn't be huge.. right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:13" class="time">17:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Lovechild, huh?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:13" class="time">17:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Maybe.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:13" class="time">17:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| We're getting issues on the board right now, so we can put a timetable for discussion around them.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:14" class="time">17:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| So we're not going to drill down too deeply just yet.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:14" class="time">17:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| understood</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:14" class="time">17:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| might we not have to look into communications infrastructure?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:15" class="time">17:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Lovechild, example?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:16" class="time">17:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| jwb: it's suboptimal to allow derived projects without enabling them to talk together - we should harness the power for the freedom we are giving people by allowing them to work together. </td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:17" class="time">17:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:17"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | davidz (David Zeuthen) [n=davidz@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t17:17" class="time">17:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| z of the david</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:18" class="time">17:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #62bb62"> davidz</th><td class="text" style="color: #62bb62">| c of the blizzard!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:18" class="time">17:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #5fb4b4"> dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #5fb4b4">| Lovechild: we have mailing lists, and irc do you want something like a jabber.fedoraproject.org server also?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:18" class="time">17:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Lovechild, what dgilmore said...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:18" class="time">17:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657"> thl</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">| please, not another communication way (like jabber) :-/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:18" class="time">17:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657"> thl</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">| it's hard enought to keep track of everything already</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #5fb4b4"> dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #5fb4b4">| thl: indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| dgilmore: I meant more when a new project is registered it would be nice if they also got free means of communications.. I would favor a means of communications that referencable from other teams like a mailing list with a webarchive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| Lovechild: that could fall under 'project hosting'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #57a657"> thl</th><td class="text" style="color: #57a657">| Lovechild, i think the "enabling them to talk together" with improve over timne</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| Lovechild, i think that's part of 6. Project hosting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:19" class="time">17:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Absolutely.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:20" class="time">17:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> Lovechild</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| okay, I'll take your word for that then.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:21" class="time">17:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:21"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | dmalcolm (David Malcolm) [i=dmalcolm@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t17:21" class="time">17:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 7. IS/IT/Infrastructure issues.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:23" class="time">17:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| ugh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:23" class="time">17:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:23" class="time">17:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Heh. We hates it, precious.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:23" class="time">17:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 8. I18N issues.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:23" class="time">17:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| 8. I18N/Docs related issues.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:24" class="time">17:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| blizzard, IS/IT issues are always painful. doesn't matter what company is involved :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:24" class="time">17:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #5fb4b4"> dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #5fb4b4">| gregdek: on 7 we need a better way for Fedora Infrastructure to communicate with Red Hat IS/IT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:26" class="time">17:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| or find a company that is willing to host it all</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:26" class="time">17:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| on 7 you also need a better communication with Red Hat Finance (or whatever it its called) as money is what talks about priorities for RH IS/IT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:27" class="time">17:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| smooge: +1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:27" class="time">17:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #5fb4b4"> dgilmore</th><td class="text" style="color: #5fb4b4">| smooge: on that we need some communication</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:28" class="time">17:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Break time. Back in a few.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:30" class="time">17:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Next up: Platform Discussion.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:31" class="time">17:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| The big thing is that IS/IT serves 2 masters which never works well. Finance controls the strings but works their puppets in IT, the customers control the request and work through their puppets in IT to finance</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:34" class="time">17:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #b86161"> wilee</th><td class="text" style="color: #b86161">| since this is a break</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:36" class="time">17:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| smooge is ever the conspiracy theorist</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| I miss smooge</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Gee, you'd think that smooge had worked with RH and knew all the poor suckers who still work there. Or something.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| bah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| <notting> dance, monkey, dance!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| smooge has no idea what it takes to release a product.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:37" class="time">17:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:39"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | ChitleshGoorah has quit ("Leaving")</td><td><a href="#t17:39" class="time">17:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #b86161"> wilee</th><td class="text" style="color: #b86161">| what are the chances of getting brutus into extras ? <a href="http://www.omesc.com/modules/main_module/">http://www.omesc.com/modules/main_module/</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:39" class="time">17:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wilee, you should ask on #fedora-extras</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:40" class="time">17:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #b86161"> wilee</th><td class="text" style="color: #b86161">| ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:40" class="time">17:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| wilee, this channel usually doesn't even exist and is only here for a couple days to cover a meeting being held</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:40" class="time">17:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Getting started again.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:42" class="time">17:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| greg keeps hurting me</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:43" class="time">17:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:43"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | gregdek has changed the topic to: Fedora Summit, Day 1: 11:45am, Fedora Orbital Mind Control Lasers (i.e. Platform)</td><td><a href="#t17:43" class="time">17:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| crap. I didn't know it did mind control too.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:44" class="time">17:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #adad5b"> blizzard</th><td class="text" style="color: #adad5b">| warren: then we've succeeded</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:44" class="time">17:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> smooge</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| f13, you are quite right.. never did it myself.. never tried to run a mirror, and never tried to figure out how to cut costs to meet a price mark</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:44" class="time">17:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| hehe</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:44" class="time">17:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| smooge: clearly you're just talking out your arse.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | davidz uhh; Orbital Lasers again!! More talk about blowing up Denmark?</td><td><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #b15db1">@ gregdek</th><td class="text" style="color: #b15db1">| Now we are discussing the "Fedora Platform" or the "Fedora Standard Base".</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: Obviously Part of Platform: What compiler?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: Stuff comfortable making promises about</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| davej: There will be a kernel</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:45" class="time">17:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: Include things that are obvious: base kernel, compiler, glibc, GNOME, X</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| notting: guaranteeing ABI of a particular version of that platform</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: 20 guys on GNOME, 1 guy on KDE</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| notting: that could change, we have community</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: question of release criteria</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: enough interest, anything can become part of the release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: platform implies a certain thing over life of release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:47" class="time">17:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Extras, rolling release, Core, updates</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:48" class="time">17:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| mindset sort of thing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:48" class="time">17:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Platform do updates</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:48" class="time">17:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| other things have rolling</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:48" class="time">17:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| bits in platform works together with each other</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:49" class="time">17:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Extras - bumping is OK, as long as you bump five other things</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:49" class="time">17:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Platform - minimalize changes that require other changes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:49" class="time">17:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| davej: kernel interfaces change</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:49" class="time">17:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: too easy to get trapped into RHEL mindset, are important, but not as important</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:49" class="time">17:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| barrier for making change (warren: progress) in Fedora is lower</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:50" class="time">17:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:50"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | rdieter (Rex Dieter) [n=rdieter@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t17:50" class="time">17:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: some scientific libraries in Extras move faster, not part of platform</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:50" class="time">17:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: why care about platform?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:51" class="time">17:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: care because if we are allowing spins at arbitrary points of time, there have to be things that are consistent at that point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:51" class="time">17:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| not in the middle of a mass rebuild for a new gcc</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:51" class="time">17:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| jkeating: "Fedora" release must be what is declared for that released platform</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:51" class="time">17:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| (talking too fast)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:52" class="time">17:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:52"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | warren argh!!!</td><td><a href="#t17:52" class="time">17:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:52"><td class="join" colspan="2">--> | jrp (Dark Reaper) [n=whatever@removed] has joined #fedora-summit</td><td><a href="#t17:52" class="time">17:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: 1) Lead up to release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:52" class="time">17:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| 2) post-release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:52" class="time">17:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: Platform is what defines a release point.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:53" class="time">17:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: time based releases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:53" class="time">17:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| notting: ABI's in core change!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:53" class="time">17:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: argh!!!!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:53" class="time">17:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| notting: we've changed RPM in the past</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| gregdek: never again change RPM until the day we replace it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: choice of ABI change, x.org 7.0/7.1, want to bump to 7.1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| example of gratuitous</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| decided not to do so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| jkeating: balance we have to strike</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:54" class="time">17:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: enable making some of those choices</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| (wanting to provide choice of 7.0 or 7.1)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| davej: need to provide drivers for too many flavors</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| katzj: why is X interesting to do that and gcc isn't.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| gregdek: agree on notion of promise, platform</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| blizzard: promise to make to ourselves</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:55" class="time">17:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| We know as a community we can do the work to get something out the door.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:56" class="time">17:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Post-release the promise is different.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:56" class="time">17:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| No gratutious ABI breakage unless there is great end-user benefit</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:56" class="time">17:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| Post-release, promise to maintain the platform</td><td class="time"><a href="#t17:56" class="time">17:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t17:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #6464bf"> warren</th><td class="text" style="color: #6464bf">| up