Meeting:Docs IRC log 20070422

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<h1>IRC Log of FDSCo Meeting (22 April 2007)</h1>
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<tr id="t09:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><meeting></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:15" class="time">09:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">got carried away in a chinese buffet :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:15" class="time">09:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">BobJensen. glezos, couf_away, stickster_afk good morning</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:16" class="time">09:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> BobJensen</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">Morning Karsten</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:16" class="time">09:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Agenda is here: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:16" class="time">09:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* BobJensen has company so will be here hit and miss</td><td><a href="#t09:16" class="time">09:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, I can handle the first item easily</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:17" class="time">09:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we got the final release notes dropped for translation yesterday, it ended up only being about 12 hours late</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:17" class="time">09:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">Paul actually had the POT/PO updated only a few hours after midnight UTC, but i did a final edit pass since it was the literally last chance for the ISO.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:18" class="time">09:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">from here, we'll track changes for the Web-only update, which will also include a chance to update translations for the Web.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:18" class="time">09:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and the cycle continues ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:18" class="time">09:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: that's not a problem since translators can start working on the first right away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:19" class="time">09:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:19"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid also sent out a whiney, 3 am blog post on the subject</td><td><a href="#t09:19" class="time">09:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">oh, on a related subject</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:19" class="time">09:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we had a few small weirdnesses, but the notes and translations all made it into test4 just fine, middle of last week</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:20" class="time">09:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the schedule here is a bit brutal, because of the extra days we added for trans this time.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:20" class="time">09:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:21"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser 195 229 25 134]  has joined #fedora-docs</td><td><a href="#t09:21" class="time">09:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Sorry I'm late...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:21" class="time">09:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: we can study when did our l10n contributors committed their translations (were they on the first 2 days or on the last 2 days, weekdays or weekends) to see if the extra days were used after all.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:21" class="time">09:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok!  good idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:21" class="time">09:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> BobJensen</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:22" class="time">09:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jmbuser: no worries, better safe than sorry :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:22" class="time">09:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:22"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- hers [n=chatzill 222 248 201 228]  has joined #fedora-docs</td><td><a href="#t09:22" class="time">09:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jmbuser: we started a little bit later and are just on the first topic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:22" class="time">09:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:22"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid blasts current log of meeting to jmbuser in pm</td><td><a href="#t09:22" class="time">09:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, that seems a completed topic :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:24" class="time">09:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:24" class="time">09:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:24"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid is working on closing f-dsco-l at this moment, too</td><td><a href="#t09:24" class="time">09:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: fedora-dsco-list?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:25" class="time">09:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:25"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- hers [n=chatzill 222 248 201 228]  has quit [Client Quit] </td><td><a href="#t09:25" class="time">09:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:25" class="time">09:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, so, moving on ...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:25" class="time">09:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">BTW, I want to thanks everyone, especially quaid, stickster </td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:26" class="time">09:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:26" class="time">09:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I didn't want to dive into a long discussion of recruiting and retaining for the project</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:26" class="time">09:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jmbuser: thanks :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:26" class="time">09:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think the R&R discussion is good for the list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:26" class="time">09:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but I wanted to address it enough so that those here are thinking about it, and will participate in the discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:27" class="time">09:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">any thoughts on the subject for here?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:28" class="time">09:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: I remember a similar discussion a month ago and a suggestion from me: <a href="http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00090.html">http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00090.html</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:29" class="time">09:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, making it easier to contribute is always a good idea :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:29" class="time">09:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">some stuff improves with Wiki changes, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:30" class="time">09:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">i definately feel, as a new member here, that some kind of a more clear todo list would be a good idea</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:30" class="time">09:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">for retaining, two good ways to make it happen could be to make ideas of new members easier to happen and to make them maintainers of them, again, early on.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:31" class="time">09:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">one of my concerns is with existing projects, though, and starting more new projects isn't going to help that as much.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:31" class="time">09:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">JonRob: +1. Our TaskSchedule page is a mess and shows stuff we've been working for months but didn't achieve (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule</a>)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:31" class="time">09:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">maybe step 1 is to straighten out the current task needs before making it easier to start new stuff :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">quiad: yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">also, that is an FDSCo task schedule</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">not a project task schedule</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that is a methodology document!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">eek</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:32" class="time">09:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: didn't know about that. :) (the title of the page reads "Fedora Docs Open Tasks")</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">seems like a good place to start would be to distill and organize tasks there, right?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: right, that is also a problem :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: Despite stickster's heroic efforts, I'm still a little fuzzy on the Beats process :-)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jmbuser: you mean, the technical weenie parts, or the social content gathering parts/</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: people see those tasks and say "no way I could help with those stuff!"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: the former</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:33" class="time">09:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, so task 1 from this meeting is:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:34" class="time">09:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">1. Rework DP/SC/TaskSchedule and DP/Tasks so the former is all for FDSCo and obvious, and the latter is generic and well pointed at</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:34" class="time">09:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: is there a real need to separate the two?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:35" class="time">09:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">good question</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:35" class="time">09:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I mean, both of them are FDP tasks, it's just that some of them need more experience.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:35" class="time">09:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">good point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:35" class="time">09:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that is probably an outfall of sometimes on FDSCo would be avaialble to do stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:35" class="time">09:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">if you put them together at least have them under clear headings, otherwise could be overwhelming/scary</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:36" class="time">09:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yup</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:36" class="time">09:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">maybe a column, "Expertise level required"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:36" class="time">09:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">something similar to the layout of the new join page?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:36" class="time">09:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">JonRob: you mean the master Join page?  wiki/Join</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:37" class="time">09:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:37" class="time">09:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">perhaps, although that design seems to work great for directing desire, but not as much for tracking tasks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:37" class="time">09:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">the clear headings with sharp bullet points make it accessible though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:38" class="time">09:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah, I see</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:38" class="time">09:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">something which some sort of a todo list needs to be to make new users feel they can really bite</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:39" class="time">09:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, we'll start with reworking and combining those pages into one; means retiring the TaskSchedule most likely since that is an obscure URL</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:39" class="time">09:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anything else?  or to the list with this discussion?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:39" class="time">09:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">the more clear we are on what we *are* doing and what we *want* to do (and how important/urgent) each task is, the better picture new and experienced members would choose where to turn their attention to</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ok for the list..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: proceed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">for those who aren't aware</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we have two main projects there, and a closely related to us one (man/info publication)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:40" class="time">09:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yay for Fedora Docs! :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:41" class="time">09:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">:)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:41" class="time">09:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, just be aware that Google gave 2 extra months at the beginning for</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:41" class="time">09:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">glezos: Congrats on your winning entry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:41" class="time">09:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">getting people connected into the projects early</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:41" class="time">09:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, we know what glezos is doing, that has been well discussed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:42" class="time">09:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: thanks :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:42" class="time">09:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">what daMaestro (JonathanSteffan) is doing is the magic between Plone and the rest of our tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:42" class="time">09:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:43" class="time">09:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you can read all the cracky ideas there :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:43" class="time">09:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: unfortunately, I won't be able to really get my hands on code until the end of May. However we could start some work on setting up the domain, discussing the details etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:43" class="time">09:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: that's to be expected, sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:43" class="time">09:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: you are already ahead of the curve anyway :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:43" class="time">09:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the extra time really serves people where the student is brand new to the project</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yup</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there is one other interesting thing we're going to be seeing worked out onlist soon, I hope</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">a student in a different summer of code project is also working on the man/info project</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">from a different angle</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so we're likely to send up with a couple of solutions there.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:44" class="time">09:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:45" class="time">09:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">excellent</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:45" class="time">09:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, unfortunately they are not allowed to work together, a strange irony of the SoC process</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:45" class="time">09:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">hmmmmm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:45" class="time">09:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">any questions here, or shall we move on to discuss F7 guides?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:46" class="time">09:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: nothing wrong with interfacing independently with FDP?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:46" class="time">09:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nope</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:47" class="time">09:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">don't think so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:47" class="time">09:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: that's good</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:48" class="time">09:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we'll see how it progresses, maybe a natural break occurs to make it modular v. two parallel projects, and we get one to work on part A, the other on part B</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:48" class="time">09:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I haven't contacted the other mentor for this yet</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:48" class="time">09:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">shall we move on?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:51" class="time">09:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">+1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:51" class="time">09:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">thx, yes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:51" class="time">09:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:51"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid is also making roll-up pancakes :)</td><td><a href="#t09:51" class="time">09:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:51" class="time">09:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, that is for any guides that wanted to be translated and shipped with F7</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:52" class="time">09:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: so any changes to the DUG are for next release?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:53" class="time">09:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">uh, well</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that is only if we want to ship with the release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">maybe that is unrealistic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">too bad :(</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">or rather, it is obviously unrealistic now :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, we can ship non-trans with the release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">at least the DUG is moving forward</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:54" class="time">09:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">what's happening with the DUG after last meeting? or is that a topic for the list?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:55" class="time">09:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">list topic, I reckon</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:57" class="time">09:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">JonRob: I think so, too</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:57" class="time">09:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, maybe checking on the IG and AG are both good list topics</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:57" class="time">09:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: slightly off-topic: do we have an estimation for a working Plone installation?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:58" class="time">09:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: fairly soon, in terms of installed to work with; mmcgrath has it on his task list right now, aiui</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:58" class="time">09:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I'm asking to see how soon could we start into resolving some of the fragmentation we have in our various Docs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:58" class="time">09:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it will be later in the Summer for magic to start happening</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:59" class="time">09:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t09:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">ok, thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t09:59" class="time">09:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">anything else to be added before moving to L10N?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">nope</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">okie</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">so, *some* stats for our translations is at: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:02" class="time">10:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">not too helpful probably (guides are not mentioned there) but quite some translators have requested access to the cvsl10n group</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:02" class="time">10:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">One of the tasks we could have for this week, as mentioned earlier, is to see when translations for relnotes were submitted to see how many days translators actually need</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Since we don't yet have a stats page, some reminders to the -trans-list about urgent docs needing translations, and generally, updates on our docs, could be very useful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">glezos: Are the stats something you are developing further this summer?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, good point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jmbuser: yes, it's a major part of the GSoC project.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"><a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/DimitrisGlezos">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/DimitrisGlezos</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">details there</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: the more updates the better. Even one-liners; the l10n team actually feels a bit un-informed about doc/app updates :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jmbuser thinks updates and stats are good</td><td><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">maybe a daily or every-other-day update at this point would be good, sure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: here is why i am shy ... I have written often to f-trans-l without a response, so i don't know when it helps that i email, and I don't want people to burn out on seeing my address :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: have you checked about responses in the form of CVS commits?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I mean, Paul wrote recently about reverting the xml2po flag but I didn't reply to him that I updated the greek translation of docs-common</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">One final point that recently concerns me is that of translation of the Website (Wiki for now) in general. We have been absolutely horrible in this respect b/c the wiki simply lacks a l10n workflow but I hope that Plone will fix this.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hmm, ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">how?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">how will Plone fix this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">it supports l10n for every page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">are you thinking we'll move to the Plone Wiki tool from Moin?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: no, I am not conerned in translating every wiki page, just the important ones</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah!  good point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">at some point we will need to decide what will be transferred to Plone, right? Like GNOME, they have gnome.org but also a wiki at live.gnome.org</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we need to identify pages that need to move from Wiki to Plone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><td class="action" colspan="2">* mmcgrath notes we can have a production plone instance very soon.</td><td><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">Both moinmoin and plone have their uses</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">this is something we can start to do before daMaestro starts his thing, i think</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> mmcgrath</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">pre F7.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: sure. Also, we'd need to see how we are going to implement docs.fedoraproject.org (separate Plone instance? etc)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">anyway, this falls in the scope of the Websites Project I guess.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">probably a dive into a specific location in Plone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I'm through with what is on my mind about Docs+L10N</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">mmcgrath: cool</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that wasn't directed at mmcgrath actually :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ok, anything else?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid should be able to do the log and summary again this week</td><td><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">already working on it :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: great, thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> jmbuser</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">quaid: Thanks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> JonRob</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">awesome :D</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry I'm such a crappy project manager, btw, it's not my strongest suit :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if it were, I know FDP would be in a bit better shape</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> glezos</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">quaid: how much better? :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* quaid contemplates recruiting poelstra to help</td><td><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">glezos: different-better :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* glezos should return to study now. ta ta guys</td><td><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">actuallly ... I'll talk with John about FDP being an early adopter of his PM methodologies</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we're good at that :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yep, we can finish</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> quaid</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40"></meeting></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
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