Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090520

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Sparks <meeting id="Docs"> 20:00
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00
Sparks Roll call... 20:00
* Sparks is here 20:00
* ke4qqq is here 20:00
* sk0rd is here 20:01
* jjmcd is somewhere 20:01
* rudi is here 20:02
* laubersm is here 20:02
* Sparks gives a few more minutes for everyone to show up 20:03
* laubersm goes to get a drink - brb 20:03
ianweller if you need me, ping me, i'll be distracted mostly 20:03
Sparks ianweller: We need you 20:03
ianweller *thud* 20:03
Sparks Okay... let's get started. 20:05
laubersm mmmm 20:05
Sparks ke4qqq: Can you handle the log for tonight? 20:05
ke4qqq sure 20:05
Sparks ke4qqq: Thanks 20:05
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Release Announcement 20:05
Sparks Okay... This has been moved up to high priority. 20:06
* ianweller removes that pot from the back burner 20:06
Sparks https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 20:06
Sparks I had writer's block over the weekend and I won't be around this weekend. 20:06
Sparks Since the release has been pushed back by a week we have a little breathing room... 20:07
SgtDitt here 20:07
Sparks however we need to get this done ASAP so the translators can get on it. 20:07
Sparks Who can write up a draft that we can look at? 20:07
Sparks Don't everyone volunteer at once, now... I'd hate to crash the IRC network 20:08
Sparks ianweller: Do you have some time to write an opening paragraph for the announcement? 20:09
rudi Sparks - I can do it, but it will be a few days before I get to it. 20:09
ianweller Sparks: "We're awesome." 20:09
rudi (over the weekend0 20:09
ianweller Sparks: but in all seriousness i could come up withs omething and get it to the list tonight 20:09
Sparks rudi: Okay. The schedule says that we were supposed to begin this today and have it done by Friday... that was before the push 20:09
Sparks ianweller: put it on the wiki... that way it's already there 20:10
ianweller well, yeah. ping the list that i actually did it too 20:10
Sparks yeah 20:10
ianweller that was what i meant to say :P 20:10
Sparks  :) 20:10
Sparks Cool 20:10
Sparks ianweller: rudi: thanks! 20:10
sk0rd I'll shoot for a draft on the page as well 20:11
ianweller so the rel announcement is gonna be i18n'd? 20:11
Sparks How is this presented to the "customers"? 20:11
Sparks ianweller: Supposedly 20:11
Sparks ianweller: which is confusing me because I'm not sure how it's being propagated 20:11
ianweller Sparks: mailing list usually 20:12
Sparks Maybe we can get that answer when stickster_afk shows up. 20:12
Sparks ianweller: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe I misread the schedule 20:12
laubersm I think we are reposonsible for an English annoucement for emails. But a lot of locations like to translate and tweak it for their regions 20:13
laubersm I do not think it has ever been a tranfix thing 20:13
Sparks I'm good with that. 20:13
laubersm but that may of changed... 20:13
jjmcd The instructions say to keep that in mind 20:13
ianweller yeah so write it as if it were to be translated 20:13
Sparks So should they be put somewhere and "translated" into XML? 20:13
jjmcd Some translated literally, other parts may be radically revised in translation 20:14
jjmcd I don't think so. Sounds like most will be rewritten for the target geography 20:14
laubersm Sparks, I do think we have in the past but we'll have to check with our elders (quaid, stickster_afk ) 20:14
laubersm opp 20:14
laubersm do NOT think we have 20:14
Sparks laubersm: Yeah, where are those old people? 20:15
Sparks Okay... looks like we have this moving 20:16
Sparks I appreciate it. 20:16
laubersm "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:16
laubersm too snarky ? 20:16
Sparks Nope 20:16
Sparks  :) 20:16
Sparks Okay, we'll talk about this more after the meeting... 20:17
Sparks any questions? 20:17
* jjmcd will be sure to be around to make jabs at ianweller 20:17
Sparks jjmcd: Much appreciated 20:17
Sparks Okay... moving on... 20:17
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd 20:17
Sparks How are them there Release Notes coming? 20:17
* jjmcd hasn't caught up on all the cool stuff laubersm, rudi, zoglesby, etc. did while he was playing at Dayton 20:18
laubersm jjmcd, yeah about that.... 20:18
Sparks jjmcd: Oh there were many things that happened while you were away 20:18
laubersm I think rudi was on top of adding the last minutes items and getting a new pot 20:19
rudi Yep all done. 20:19
laubersm I assume everything else just goes on the wiki 20:19
jjmcd We do a 0-day RPM 20:19
rudi There were a couple of bugs filed overnight about Section IDs and re-adding the Common Bugs section from F10 20:20
jjmcd Yeah, I saw that 20:20
rudi I've confirmed that we could do this with practically no impact to L10N 20:20
laubersm jjmcd, from what is being translated now? or are we pushing one more pot too? 20:20
Sparks I've noted a few messages on the list talking about updates 20:20
jjmcd If nobody else is making a bunch of changes I can go ahead and add the id's 20:20
jjmcd We are scheduled to push a pot immediately after release 20:21
jjmcd seemd weird but 20:21
laubersm jjmcd, I think that one is to then update docs.fp.o 20:21
rudi jjmcd I've got them done and ready to push... 20:21
jjmcd yes, i think that is correct 20:21
laubersm no more rpms after GA - though we could push one through updates if we wanted 20:21
jjmcd cool 20:21
* quaid is able to be here now for a short bit 20:22
rudi There was also a request to add a note about libguestfs, but I think this is way too late now, yes? 20:22
* jjmcd is doing some reports for MSP, not going well, Eric's writer's block is catching 20:22
laubersm if anything else comes in before we build the ga rpm - then it sounds like we can add a link to the wiki info without bothering the translators 20:23
laubersm is that true? 20:23
quaid translators? for release announcement? 20:23
* quaid is confused now 20:23
jjmcd We did get a week push back 20:23
laubersm then it is "in" the rpm for those looking there to know there is more info "somewhere" 20:23
jjmcd quaid: previous topic 20:24
sk0rd can someone speak more to the push back? docs is my only insight as to what's going on 20:24
quaid jjmcd: we need to revisit when we get a chance, there is a misconception underway 20:24
ke4qqq sk0rd: we'll talk in #f-d 20:24
quaid sk0rd: release engineering in yesterday's meetings declared a week slip in the schedule 20:24
Sparks quaid: I must have misread the schedule. There isn't anything about translating the annoucement on there now 20:24
quaid Sparks: can I speak on that now? or wait until a topic change soonest? 20:25
Sparks quaid: Go for it 20:25
quaid ok, I've tried to make this clear on some wiki page that I can't find right now :) 20:25
quaid there are two deliverables -- 20:25
jjmcd /Releases/Announcements 20:25
quaid 1. A set of clear top-five talking points for _others_ to use when constructing their own, native language, locale-specific (humor, no humor, etc.) release announcement 20:26
quaid 2. A whimsical, English-only release announcement that i) uses those same talking points (functionally similar to locally written announcements), but ii) is not for 20:26
l10n itself because of idiomatic/culture specific content
quaid it is the latter that is the main need from Docs 20:27
quaid the former is more handled by Marketing, but $someone needs to tell f-amb-l and f-trans-l 20:27
quaid that the points are ready for them to use for their own locale-specific write-up. 20:27
quaid <eof> 20:27
jjmcd OK, that was mostly my understanding except it wasn't clear that Marketing was handling the former, Docs the latter, nor was the top-five clear 20:28
jjmcd Releases/Announcements makes it sound like some undefined body 20:29
quaid well, to be honest, I'm not clear if Marketing has that former task on their schedule 20:29
laubersm that is even easier than what I said - I thought 1 came more from 2 ... but that it was still just a write up (no xml or tx from docs). 20:29
quaid I sort-of dropped that ball this release, since I've been the main driver on that for the last several 20:29
quaid laubersm: it's also honestly fun -- you should do it! 20:29
laubersm "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:29
laubersm that was my attempt :) 20:29
quaid heh 20:30
laubersm seems a bit snarky even for the english version 20:30
laubersm  :) 20:30
jjmcd laubersm, seems to me Fedora's image is a little "corporate", snarky might be good 20:30
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcement_template 20:30
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements 20:31
quaid there we go! 20:31
sk0rd the l10n reference is a bit obscure. With the art team working on grecian references, why not duplicate the theme 20:31
quaid that has a link to all previous whimsical announcements 20:31
* laubersm notes it is only in a Marketing Category - no wonder we we didn't have it here in docs... 20:31
quaid there is no pattern on theme duplication or ref. to release name, although that is a popular theme. 20:31
* laubersm logs into wiki... 20:32
quaid um, Release_announcements is in [[Category:Docs Project]] 20:32
laubersm the template is not 20:33
laubersm or WAS not 20:33
laubersm  :) 20:33
* laubersm also moved the [[Category: to the bottom where it belongs 20:33
Sparks laubersm: ianweller will thank you 20:33
laubersm  :) 20:34
jjmcd hmmmm, reading the F10 announcement, I hope there was an en-GB version 20:34
Sparks  ? 20:35
jjmcd might work for nl, or even en-AU, but not the straight laced Brits 20:35
* ianweller thanks laubersm 20:35
Sparks laubersm: See, I told you 20:35
quaid one other point, not sure if it is on that page ... 20:37
quaid but the whimsical announcement must be approved by the sitting FPL, in this case, stickster_afk 20:37
quaid just give him ~24 hours heads up 20:37
jjmcd most of us would value his counsel anyway 20:37
Sparks most of us wonder why he bails on us these days 20:38
jjmcd Probably he has more to do than just chill on IRC, just guessing 20:38
jjmcd Isn't he about to head to Romania? 20:38
Sparks Probably 20:39
Sparks I don't know... haven't heard anything about Romania 20:39
sk0rd ok, next topic? 20:39
sk0rd  ;) 20:39
Sparks Okay.. anything else on the announcement? 20:39
* quaid is done and has to vaporize now 20:39
jjmcd I thought I heard he was speaking in Bucharest this weekend 20:39
Sparks wow 20:39
Sparks Okay... anything else on the RNs? 20:40
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Review http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule 20:40
jjmcd </rn> 20:40
rudi Just confirmation that we agree that libguestfs is too late? 20:40
Sparks too late for zero-day? 20:41
rudi Yeah 20:41
jjmcd The schedule saysfinal snapshot today and release pushed back a week, so I would say no, not too late 20:41
Sparks yeah, I think we should take advantage of the push 20:41
rudi OK - but I guess we should get confirmation that L10N is happy with that... 20:41
jjmcd I agree 20:42
rudi OK - I'll ask :) 20:42
jjmcd today = today zulu time 20:42
rudi Doesn't that mean that the translations would need to be completed by today? 20:43
Sparks how many changes need to be fixed? 20:44
jjmcd It says build rpm 5/25 20:44
jjmcd Seems like there has been a flood of bugs today 20:44
rudi Sparks - the section IDs (fixed), the Common Bugs section (fixed, but one problem), and the request to add libguestfs to the RN 20:45
Sparks so... five lines? 20:45
rudi Checking... 20:46
rudi Yep 20:46
Sparks cool 20:47
Sparks that shouldn't be too bad to "repair' 20:47
rudi There are also requests for documentation of two bugs, one in anaconda and one in libfprint, but I think they can go on the Common bugs page on the wiki, yes? 20:48
Sparks I would think so 20:48
Sparks Anything else? 20:50
rudi Not that I'm aware of 20:50
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Guides 20:50
Sparks Okay, due to the hour I'm not going to go through all the guides 20:50
Sparks does anyone need anything for their guides or is anyone having any problems? 20:51
* ke4qqq needs more time 20:51
Sparks for the IG? 20:51
ke4qqq but thankfully rudi is doing a great job of keep things moving 20:51
Sparks You have a week more! 20:51
ke4qqq lol wow - granted my wish :) 20:52
rudi ke4qqq - what needs doing? 20:52
ke4qqq rudi: I was talking about I need more time - as far as I know the IG is in good shape, we probably need to get the final release ready (get rid of draft tag) but we 20:52
can talk in a bit and not hold up the meeting
rudi OK - yep :) 20:53
-!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Open Floor 20:54
Sparks Okay, anyone have anything they want to discuss? 20:54
rudi Translators have noticed a couple of glitches in the big, merged PO files for both the IG and UG, but I've suggested we wait until Transifex 0.6 is available rather than 20:54
do anything about these now
ke4qqq Me! 20:54
jjmcd Do I gather we have agreement on everything in Publican for 12?: 20:54
sk0rd I did, heck if I can remember. 20:54
ke4qqq https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF <--- Docs FAD 20:54
laubersm jjmcd, I agree - but can we have less than everything ? 20:54
Sparks jjmcd: Not yet 20:55
sk0rd ah, new contributors, hand raised when ready. 20:55
Sparks jjmcd: I'd like to have a free minute or two to really think about it. I didn't see anything objectionable, though 20:55
Sparks ke4qqq: Okay... go with your shameless plug 20:55
ke4qqq honestly I think we are in a poor place to make that decision jjmcd - immediately before release - extremely busy with all of that - might make for less than reasoned 20:56
look.
ke4qqq We have a docs fad at the above link 20:56
ke4qqq you should all attend 20:56
ke4qqq (And SELF the day before) 20:56
ke4qqq ianweller is going to teach packaging 20:56
Sparks ke4qqq: That's all you got? 20:56
jjmcd ke4qqq, I can buy that. I was just hoping to check one more thing off the list :-) 20:56
ke4qqq and hopefully we can hash this out. 20:56
* Sparks is still contemplating on how to get down there 20:56
ke4qqq that is it from me 20:56
Sparks ke4qqq: how many Fedora hams are going to be there? 20:57
Sparks ke4qqq: Maybe a designated simplex freq? 20:57
* laubersm prods Sparks to get to the "new contributor" before time runs out 20:57
ke4qqq 2 that I know of. 20:57
Sparks ke4qqq: ok 20:57
ke4qqq I'll add that 20:57
Sparks sk0rd: Go ahead! 20:57
sk0rd I've been really happy with the time that people have spent with me, but I've noticed quite a few introductions and whatnot through the mailing list 20:58
* jjmcd has been emailing applicants to get intros 20:58
sk0rd as far as getting people involved, does anyone have any thoughts on improving the documentation on... joining documentation and getting started? 20:58
Sparks sk0rd: We need to get on that as well. This is just a really "bad" time to join as we are rushing to get everything finished for the release 20:59
laubersm I think a lot of us have ideas but no one has settled down enough to get it done. 20:59
laubersm sk0rd, I came in about this time one release ago to the same issues 20:59
Sparks but we should make it a priority to be better with being able to get new members on track early 20:59
sk0rd Sparks, it is so for senior contributors yes 20:59
jjmcd Sparks, gotta strike while the iron is hot, tho 21:00
Sparks Oh, I agree! 21:00
sk0rd perhaps I'll try and hit on it 21:00
Sparks There will be changes for F12. 21:00
sk0rd </comment> 21:00
laubersm sk0rd, no - any one - if there is something that wasn't clear to you before and somehow is now - please jump in and expand in the join docs! 21:00
laubersm I and others have been prodding quaid and stickster_afk to go through and "fix up" the pages too 21:01
laubersm with their years of wisdom 21:01
ianweller ke4qqq: oh i am teaching packaging? interesting. 21:01
Sparks ianweller: You are now 21:01
ke4qqq by fiat 21:01
jjmcd you are our leading expert 21:01
ke4qqq  :) 21:01
laubersm ianweller, the CMS is to be all packaged before you can sleep 21:01
laubersm the more people you teach, the more likely you will get to sleep 21:02
* laubersm says knowing she will not be able to be there 21:02
ianweller looks like i'm getting no sleep 21:02
ke4qqq ianweller: I tried to get jds2001, but looks like he is unavailable 21:02
ianweller ke4qqq: oic. 21:02
ke4qqq and then Max said sending you was 'the right thing to do' 21:02
ke4qqq  :) 21:02
ianweller i saw that 21:03
jjmcd THat way you'll be all practiced up to teach at FUDcon 21:04
Sparks Okay, anything else? 21:05
Sparks I'd like to mention that I'll be helping my wife move for the summer (summer internship) beginning tomorrow and I won't be back until Monday. I won't have Internet 21:07
access during this time so I'm turning over the conn to jjmcd for the weekend.
laubersm excellent! 21:07
* jjmcd will be around 21:07
Sparks Okay, anything else? 21:08
jjmcd Sparks, Does that mean you will be batching it for the summer? 21:08
Sparks jjmcd: pretty much 21:08
Sparks pizza and soda all summer long 21:08
jjmcd Ooooh, bad. Gotta fend for yourself 21:08
* jjmcd suspects Sparks needs time in .de to learn things that go better with pizza 21:09
Sparks I have some projects to work on over the summer... maybe that will keep me out of trouble. 21:09
* Sparks is too poor to go to .de... 21:09
Sparks okay, anything else? 21:09
Sparks 5 21:09
Sparks 4 21:09
Sparks 3 21:10
Sparks 2 21:10
Sparks 1 21:10
Sparks </meeting> 21:10