Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090610

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 19:50:07 2009
Sparks <meeting id="Docs Project"> Jun 10 20:00
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: Jun 10 20:00
Sparks Roll Call! Jun 10 20:01
*Sparks is here Jun 10 20:01
*jjmcd ici Jun 10 20:01
*rudi is here Jun 10 20:01
*sgodsell has quit ("Leaving") Jun 10 20:01
*quaid is here! Jun 10 20:02
*Sparks wonders if we need to change the time, again. Jun 10 20:02
quaid I thought this was the best one available? Jun 10 20:02
Sparks Yeah, me too... except for people don't show up. Jun 10 20:03
quaid hmm, well Jun 10 20:04
*Sparks checks his breath. Jun 10 20:04
jjmcd Lessee, ianweller, zoglesby on docs Jun 10 20:04
quaid so, let me say btw ... Jun 10 20:04
quaid awesome release for Docs Jun 10 20:04
quaid I'm very impressed, and glad to be out of a job around here :D Jun 10 20:05
*quaid saw some praise in response to his praise ... here: Jun 10 20:05
quaid Jun 10 20:05
Sparks quaid: My blood pressure has come down a bit. I hope jjmcd's has too. Jun 10 20:06
jjmcd Not as much as it needs to Jun 10 20:06
jjmcd It is now ARRL reporting season, plus still waiting to find out what my car is gonna cost me Jun 10 20:06
Sparks Yikes. Jun 10 20:07
Sparks Okay, let's get started and hopefully the rest will join in soon. Jun 10 20:07
Sparks quaid: Can you get the log tonight, please? Jun 10 20:07
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*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - FAD SELF 2009 <-- ke4qqq Jun 10 20:08
Sparks ke4qqq: Are you here??? Jun 10 20:08
Sparks I'm guessing not. Jun 10 20:08
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Sparks Okay. This weekend is the SouthEast LinuxFest in Clemson, SC. If you are going please visit the wiki page [FAD SELF 2009] and sign up. Jun 10 20:09
Sparks Saturday is SELF and Sunday is the Fedora Activity Day Jun 10 20:09
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Sparks We will be linking the conference room up to the Talk server so people can dial into the conference room (2008) and communicate with us. Jun 10 20:10
quaid ke4qqq mentioned that he wasn't likely to make tonight, fwiw Jun 10 20:10
jjmcd So mostly Sunday then? Jun 10 20:10
quaid what's on the FAD agenda? what is the time window youll be there? Jun 10 20:10
Sparks We will also have an IRC channel (maybe just in #fedora-docs) but it might be a little difficult to do a face-to-face and IRC but someone will be monitoring. Jun 10 20:11
*zoglesby is here Jun 10 20:11
Sparks jjmcd: The FAD is on Sunday. Jun 10 20:11
jjmcd Didn't I see a sked somewhere? Jun 10 20:12
Sparks FAD Activities include: Jun 10 20:12
Sparks * F12 and beyond - issues central to the future of the Docs Project Jun 10 20:12
Sparks * Packaging instruction (provided by Ian Weller ) Jun 10 20:12
Sparks * Working on Zikula - specifically packaging modules Jun 10 20:12
Sparks * A non-translator's introduction to the POT/PO model (Paul Frields) Jun 10 20:12
Sparks * Perhaps an introduction to DocBook if there is interest Jun 10 20:12
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Sparks It looks like there are eight people signed up to be there. Jun 10 20:12
joat I plan on being there at least the first half of the day Jun 10 20:13
joat haven't signed up yet tho Jun 10 20:13
Sparks joat: Yeah, you've got a little drive ahead of you. Jun 10 20:13
zoglesby I hope to be on sip Jun 10 20:14
Sparks The biggest thing that I plan on discussing is the F12 and beyond Jun 10 20:14
Sparks I'll make sure that an email gets sent to the list so people know what time we are starting and such. Jun 10 20:14
jjmcd Some of those things should be recorded ... ianweller, stickster esp. Jun 10 20:14
Sparks Maybe we can figure out how to do an ogg (podcast?) of the meeting. Jun 10 20:15
Sparks jjmcd: I agree. Jun 10 20:15
zoglesby jjmcd: good idea Jun 10 20:15
*zoglesby really needs to hear the packaging stuff Jun 10 20:15
Sparks If we are already going to be using the Talk server then maybe we can do the podcast thing and grab the audio. Jun 10 20:15
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jjmcd I figure by F12 time I will have forgotten the pot/po Jun 10 20:16
Sparks mchua: Welcome! We are just discussing SELF and the FAD on Sunday. Jun 10 20:16
Sparks jjmcd: By F12 I hope that we don't have to remember how to do that convoluted way. Jun 10 20:16
jjmcd Good point, so it will be totally new Jun 10 20:17
Sparks I hope it is point-and-click by then. Jun 10 20:17
rudi Sparks -- Transifex 0.6 is not in the repo yet Jun 10 20:17
Sparks  :( Jun 10 20:17
rudi As soon as it is, we can nag infrastructure to upgrade Jun 10 20:17
zoglesby rudi: is transifex going to fix our issues? Jun 10 20:17
Sparks rudi: Can you get a status report on that for next week's meeting? Jun 10 20:17
rudi Sparks NP Jun 10 20:17
jjmcd zoglesby, it will greatly simplify them Jun 10 20:17
zoglesby yay! Jun 10 20:18
rudi zoglesby - it will allow Translators to work directly with Publican's PO files Jun 10 20:18
rudi So that we won't have to merge them for translation and split them afterwards to build Jun 10 20:18
rudi It will also allow the translators to share their workload more easily (because different people can be working on different files) Jun 10 20:18
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Sparks Okay, anything else about SELF? Jun 10 20:20
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*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid Jun 10 20:21
Sparks quaid: Do you have an update on this? Jun 10 20:21
Sparks quaid: PING Jun 10 20:23
Sparks Well, he was here. Jun 10 20:23
jjmcd He's in kalifornia, anything could happen there - earthquake, wildfire, mudslide Jun 10 20:23
Sparks We'll come back once he gets his head above... well, whatever has fallen on it from all that. Jun 10 20:24
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Docs_decisions_for_F12 Jun 10 20:24
zoglesby good update! Jun 10 20:24
quaid Sparks: sorry, distraction land Jun 10 20:24
*quaid is at the farmer's market Jun 10 20:25
Sparks Just wanted to point out that if you want it discussed at FAD and it applies to changes to the way we do business for F12 you should make sure it get in the wiki Jun 10 20:25
Sparks quaid: Really? Jun 10 20:25
quaid sho'nuff Jun 10 20:25
Sparks quaid: Let's go back to your topic real quick so you can continue to squeeze the melons. Jun 10 20:25
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid Jun 10 20:25
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quaid sorry, I need another minute Jun 10 20:26
quaid ok, back Jun 10 20:26
Sparks  :) Jun 10 20:26
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quaid so far all seems lined up Jun 10 20:28
quaid I wanted to talk with the contenet services group to ensure there is no hardship Jun 10 20:28
quaid mhideo was on paternity leave, just got back and sent me a response right away Jun 10 20:28
quaid positive response from him and rfontana about their needs; he is working up a plan by 19 June Jun 10 20:28
quaid so meanwhile, knowing we aren't going to be a PITA for ECS, I'll Jun 10 20:28
quaid start the plan via f-advisory-board Jun 10 20:28
quaid because we want to cover all of ** Jun 10 20:28
quaid that is not explicitly licensed otherwise. Jun 10 20:29
Sparks +1 Jun 10 20:29
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quaid as long as we don't run into problems in the f-a-b discussion, I'll have a project plan together to refence in that discussion, and we can roll based on that. Jun 10 20:29
quaid I'll signal something when i submit my patch for the Publican Fedora brand pckage :) Jun 10 20:30
quaid any questions? Jun 10 20:30
zoglesby and by-sa 3.0 is the license we are going with? Jun 10 20:30
Sparks Do I need to be "present" for the f-a-b? Jun 10 20:30
quaid zoglesby: yes, the part I have to double check is the 'ported/unported' part Jun 10 20:30
quaid Sparks: you mean, in the discussion? probably not, but you can lurk :) Jun 10 20:31
jjmcd Sounds like you have the bases covered Jun 10 20:31
Sparks quaid: Yeah, remind me when it is so I can lurk... Jun 10 20:31
rudi quaid - any timeframe on that patch? Jun 10 20:31
quaid rudi: well, I could pull something from my ear right now, but let me cook a plan with f-a-b first ... I want us to think out the ramifications Jun 10 20:32
quaid it could be within a week, but that seems unlikely from past experience :) Jun 10 20:32
rudi quaid -- sure, I was only asking because I have another change to make to the package, and was wondering if I should wait or not :) Jun 10 20:33
quaid ah Jun 10 20:34
quaid ok, I'll let f-docs-l know as soon as I kick of the f-a-b discussion Jun 10 20:35
quaid and will also let y'all know the timeframe that develops. Jun 10 20:35
*quaid is eof Jun 10 20:35
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Sparks Anyone have anything else? Jun 10 20:35
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Calendar Jun 10 20:36
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Sparks Okay, I still want to do this but I haven't had a chance to work on it. Maybe I'll have some time this weekend or next week. Jun 10 20:36
Sparks Questions or comments? Jun 10 20:36
zoglesby Are you talking about the ical? Jun 10 20:36
Sparks Yes Jun 10 20:36
zoglesby nope Jun 10 20:37
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Jun 10 20:37
Sparks jjmcd: So... how's the RN coming? Jun 10 20:37
Sparks  :) Jun 10 20:37
zoglesby lol Jun 10 20:37
jjmcd I need someone to push the zero day to docs.fp.o Jun 10 20:37
jjmcd My web server is kind of screwy and I can't flip it to sandbox for a few days Jun 10 20:38
jjmcd But all the updates in git Jun 10 20:38
rudi If I can be added, I'll do it Jun 10 20:38
rudi I've also got fixes for problems in Hebrew and Serbian (Latin) Jun 10 20:38
jjmcd Oh good, one of the things I wanted to try was the hebrew thing but that is only like 2% translated Jun 10 20:39
rudi I know, but I figured that we could at least demonstrate that we've got it under control :) Jun 10 20:39
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jjmcd That would be good Jun 10 20:39
*quaid has to drop connection, bbiafew Jun 10 20:39
rudi I've got those ready to check in, but don't have the right permissions (I thought I did...) Jun 10 20:40
jjmcd for cvsfedora? Jun 10 20:41
rudi Just for the release-notes part, apparently. Jun 10 20:41
Sparks rudi: Get with me after the meeting and let me see if I can remember how to do it. Jun 10 20:41
rudi I've been able to check in install-guide and user-guide Jun 10 20:41
rudi Sparks - Ta Jun 10 20:41
Sparks Okay, anything else on the RNs? Jun 10 20:42
jjmcd Well, it is only the one group Jun 10 20:42
Sparks jjmcd: There are additional permissions in the CVS Jun 10 20:42
rudi apparently not. Jun 10 20:42
rudi I get "Access denied: rlandmann is not in ACL for web/html/docs/release-notes" Jun 10 20:42
jjmcd ahhh Jun 10 20:42
jjmcd SO some more magic pixie dust needed Jun 10 20:42
Sparks Yeah... I just ventured in there last week... Jun 10 20:43
rudi  :D Jun 10 20:43
Sparks Yes Jun 10 20:43
jjmcd I guess quaid gotta do that then Jun 10 20:43
jjmcd I mean, give permissions Jun 10 20:43
Sparks jjmcd: I think I can do it, now. Jun 10 20:43
Sparks I think I was given the magic wand. Jun 10 20:43
Sparks Okay, anything else? Jun 10 20:44
jjmcd ahhh interesting, you're not a sponsor on cvsfedora Jun 10 20:44
jjmcd but acls could be different Jun 10 20:44
jjmcd I think that's it Jun 10 20:44
jjmcd I still need to do the merge/split so translators can work on zero day Jun 10 20:45
jjmcd and then we'll make an update rpm Jun 10 20:45
Sparks jjmcd: It is different. Jun 10 20:45
jjmcd </release-notes> Jun 10 20:46
Sparks Okay... let's move on. Jun 10 20:46
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq & rudi Jun 10 20:46
Sparks rudi: Any updates on this? Looks like everything hit on time! Jun 10 20:46
rudi Well, now that F11 is out the door, I've got a whole heap of bugs to work on Jun 10 20:46
rudi I plan to have those done in the next week or so Jun 10 20:47
Sparks Cool. Jun 10 20:47
rudi So, we'll have a new edition shortly. Jun 10 20:48
Sparks rudi: Congrats to you and ke4qqq for a great guide. Jun 10 20:48
rudi Ta Jun 10 20:48
Sparks Anything else? Jun 10 20:48
rudi Got lots of great new stuff to come :) Jun 10 20:48
rudi No -- that's it on the IG Jun 10 20:48
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide <-- radsy & sparks Jun 10 20:48
Sparks radsy: I need to convert some stuff from the wiki. Anything else? Jun 10 20:49
radsy nothing on sec guide really, i'm busy with selinux services Jun 10 20:49
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guides <-- radsy Jun 10 20:51
Sparks radsy: So tell us about the selinux guides. Jun 10 20:51
radsy ok, user-guide has a couple of translations done Jun 10 20:51
radsy my @redhat contact for the services guide wants sendmail, postfix, spamassassin, clamav, squid, postgres, mysql, rsync, kvm included in the thing, so that should keep me out of trouble for a while... Jun 10 20:52
Sparks Good grief Jun 10 20:53
jjmcd I'm glad you're writing it, I will look forward to reading it Jun 10 20:53
radsy currently thrashing about with VMs testing these services out on F11 Jun 10 20:53
Sparks If I can get through my next milestone (in August) then I might be able to give you a few hours per week to help do research or whatnot if you need it. Jun 10 20:54
Sparks Any other questions/comments on the SELinux guide? Jun 10 20:55
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*Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes [1] Jun 10 20:55
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Sparks Okay, last topic of the night... Jun 10 20:55
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Sparks Has everyone looked at the table I created on the wiki? Jun 10 20:56
rudi Did we skip the User-Guide? Jun 10 20:56
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Sparks rudi: We did... did you have something for that? Jun 10 20:57
rudi Just to say that it's up on docs.fp.o now, in English, Bosnian, Spanish, and Dutch Jun 10 20:58
Sparks So, I'd like to take those guides and move them around according to that table. Jun 10 20:58
zoglesby what table are you talking about? Jun 10 20:59
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*Sparks points to the topic Jun 10 20:59
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Sparks Jun 10 20:59
Sparks Can I get some +1s? Jun 10 20:59
zoglesby I see no table Jun 10 20:59
zoglesby at least I was on the page Jun 10 20:59
jjmcd I have some reservations, only a few Jun 10 21:00
Sparks zoglesby: Okay.. a list Jun 10 21:00
Sparks jjmcd: speak! Jun 10 21:00
jjmcd We need a translation guide, is there an alternative? Jun 10 21:00
zoglesby * translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly with Fedora translations. Jun 10 21:00
Sparks The translators say they only use the one guide and not the other two. Jun 10 21:01
jjmcd If that is an adequate replacement, then no reason for duplication Jun 10 21:01
jjmcd Also, it seems to me we need something like a beginner's guide Jun 10 21:01
rudi I've just assisted converting the TQSG to Publican Jun 10 21:01
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Sparks rudi: Cool Jun 10 21:02
rudi jjmcd - the User's Guide is pretty much a beginner's guide Jun 10 21:02
rudi * User Guide Jun 10 21:02
jjmcd I was thinking it might be a little heavy, should take a closer look tho Jun 10 21:03
zoglesby what kind of stuff are you thinking about jjmcd ? Jun 10 21:03
jjmcd Well, I haven't looked at the UG in real depth, but it seems like there is enough there to scare people away Jun 10 21:04
jjmcd But I should really take a harder look before I say that Jun 10 21:04
rudi It shouldn't... Jun 10 21:04
jjmcd I'm sure the desktop guide is well out of date Jun 10 21:04
rudi If there's scary stuff there, the solution is to rewrite or remove it Jun 10 21:04
rudi Not to create another new book :) Jun 10 21:04
jjmcd You don't think a beginner's guide is different from a user's guide? Jun 10 21:05
jjmcd (don't necessarily like the desktop name_ Jun 10 21:05
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rudi It may or may not be; depending who the User Guide is pitched at and what it covers. Jun 10 21:05
rudi This one covers "Common desktop tasks" and assumes absolutely nothing (or that's the aim, at any rate) Jun 10 21:06
jjmcd Can we come back to that one next week Sparks? The others I have no issue with Jun 10 21:06
Sparks Yep Jun 10 21:07
zoglesby jjmcd: I see were you are coming from but I need to read the UG cover to cover as well Jun 10 21:07
Sparks No problem! Jun 10 21:07
jjmcd Yeah, I think we want to work harder to be accessible, but maybe we are Jun 10 21:07
*stickster_afk is now known as stickster Jun 10 21:08
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rudi jjmcd - just to clarify, I strongly agree with you that we need to have a doc to get people started with Fedora. I just want to avoid manual proliferation if we can avoid it Jun 10 21:08
jjmcd I agree with that rudi Jun 10 21:08
rudi  :D Jun 10 21:08
rudi One doc not on the list is the Accessibility doc Jun 10 21:09
Sparks rudi: It wasn't in BZ.  :) Jun 10 21:09
jjmcd seems like somewhere there used to be such a thing Jun 10 21:09
jjmcd I think it may be in git Jun 10 21:09
rudi Sparks - ah OK Jun 10 21:09
rudi It is in git; and I converted it to Publican at the same time I did the other "minor" docs Jun 10 21:10
Sparks rudi: I can add that to BZ. Jun 10 21:10
zoglesby were is the rpm-guide at? I don't see it on Jun 10 21:11
rudi Sparks +1 Jun 10 21:11
Sparks I'd like to start exploiting BZ for keeping track of our tasks. Jun 10 21:11
jjmcd cool Jun 10 21:11
rudi I think we need to get more eyes on it Jun 10 21:11
jjmcd What goes in BZ and what goes in trac? Jun 10 21:11
Sparks jjmcd: It's up to you. Jun 10 21:12
zoglesby Sparks: I love the BZ, idea it got my attention very fast Jun 10 21:12
Sparks From what I understand... many people use Trac for upstream stuff and BZ for customer issues Jun 10 21:12
Sparks or something like that Jun 10 21:12
jjmcd zoglesby, if it weren't so bloody sleaux Jun 10 21:12
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jjmcd I've been playing with trac to ktrack some of out PRB-1 stuff, not sure I like it as well as BZ, but at least you don't have to wait forever Jun 10 21:13
jjmcd sheesh the typing, must be getting late Jun 10 21:13
Sparks Yeah Jun 10 21:14
zoglesby i thought that bugzilla was going to be part of the fedora community site, but they must have put that on hold Jun 10 21:14
jjmcd Well, I don't see developers putting release notes comments in trac, so that is a clue Jun 10 21:15
Sparks jjmcd: But I can change massive amount of tickets at one time! I have visability into everything Docs. (Everyone does) Jun 10 21:15
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Sparks So from a planning point of view it makes my life easier. Jun 10 21:15
jjmcd yeah, I was somewhat confused by two similar things... although trac does have this timeline concept that bz lacks Jun 10 21:16
Sparks Yeah Jun 10 21:16
oshan sorry but whats BZ? Jun 10 21:17
jjmcd bugzilla Jun 10 21:17
oshan oh thanks Jun 10 21:17
Sparks So I'll probably be exploiting BZ in the near future for items that are on our task lists. Jun 10 21:17
jjmcd Makes sense. Perhaps when we get our heads around zikula it will have something better Jun 10 21:18
jjmcd but that seems in the distant future Jun 10 21:18
Sparks yeah Jun 10 21:18
Sparks Okay, anything else? Jun 10 21:18
Sparks Anything else for the meeting? Jun 10 21:19
zoglesby Anyone know the status of the SoC docbook editor? Jun 10 21:20
jjmcd list chatter seems to have calmed down Jun 10 21:20
Sparks I haven't heard anything. Jun 10 21:21
jjmcd I just got another FSD-212 - no rest for the wicked Jun 10 21:21
Sparks Anyone have anything else for the meeting? Jun 10 21:22
Sparks 5 Jun 10 21:22
Sparks 4 Jun 10 21:22
Sparks 3 Jun 10 21:22
Sparks 2 Jun 10 21:22
Sparks 1 Jun 10 21:22
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! Jun 10 21:22
Sparks </meeting> Jun 10 21:22
*Sparks has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See for meeting schedule Jun 10 21:22
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 21:22:48 2009

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