| Sparks
|
#startmeeting
|
00:00
|
| Sparks
|
#maintopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
|
00:01
|
| Sparks
|
Hmmm....
|
00:01
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
|
00:01
|
| Sparks
|
Roll Call!!!
|
00:01
|
| * Sparks is here
|
00:01
|
| * radsy is here
|
00:01
|
| ianweller
|
hi!
|
00:02
|
| * jjmcd is here
|
00:02
|
| joat
|
annette!
|
00:02
|
| * ianweller adds something to the agenda really fast
|
00:02
|
| * poelcat here for ~ 30min (schedule worked out)
|
00:02
|
| * ianweller is done adding things to the agenda
|
00:03
|
| Sparks
|
poelcat: Great, we'll get you in at the beginning
|
00:03
|
| * quaid is here
|
00:03
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: noted
|
00:03
|
| ianweller
|
Sparks: oh you were looking for #meetingtopic earlier instead of #maintopic
|
00:03
|
| ianweller
|
Sparks: or you can pass that as an argument to #startmeeting.
|
00:03
|
| * Sparks moves some things around...
|
00:04
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: That's what I was looking for... Gees...
|
00:04
|
| Sparks
|
TU
|
00:04
|
| Sparks
|
Okay... I've modified the agenda a bit...
|
00:05
|
| Sparks
|
#meetingtopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
|
00:06
|
| Sparks
|
#topic F12 Calendar <-- poelcat
|
00:06
|
| Sparks
|
poelcat has been nice enough to create a calendar for us for the F12 release...
|
00:06
|
| poelcat
|
looking to see if there was any feedback on the schedules I proposed
|
00:06
|
| Sparks
|
and he sent it to everyone via the list.
|
00:07
|
| Sparks
|
Has everyone looked at it?
|
00:07
|
| poelcat
|
also curious if there was any interest in the ical/ics file?
|
00:07
|
| * Sparks goes to get the links real quick.
|
00:07
|
| Sparks
|
poelcat: I like the ical...
|
00:07
|
| ianweller
|
someone have a link handy?
|
00:07
|
| quaid
|
it's worth having anyway
|
00:07
|
| jjmcd
|
Don't know enough about what we are going to do to know whether it makes sense or not
|
00:07
|
| Sparks
|
#link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
#link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-tasks.html
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
#link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
The first link is the docs tasks on a calendar...
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
the second link is the docs + releng tasks on a calendar...
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
and the third link is the docs ics
|
00:08
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: This is the master calendar for the F12 release.
|
00:09
|
| jjmcd
|
Yes, but I have significant questions
|
00:09
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: go!
|
00:09
|
| jjmcd
|
Now that alpha is a real alpha, for example, does the 1 page RN's make sense
|
00:10
|
| jjmcd
|
Before alpha was a hoax, now it is feature complete
|
00:10
|
| poelcat
|
i took the previous "beta" tasks and relabled them "alpha"
|
00:10
|
| jjmcd
|
That is probably not too bad an approximation
|
00:11
|
| jjmcd
|
Especially since we probably don't really know how alpha and beta will turn out
|
00:11
|
| poelcat
|
the biggest things to consider are "is there enough time to do the tasks listed and do the order of events look right"
|
00:11
|
| jjmcd
|
What Jesse things might not turne out
|
00:12
|
| poelcat
|
+ based on what you learned in F11... have we factored that in
|
00:12
|
| jjmcd
|
I think that is a good start
|
00:12
|
| poelcat
|
i can always change/adjust things
|
00:13
|
| poelcat
|
and most importantly as you notice things in F12 that don't work well that you want to change for F13... tell me as they happen
|
00:13
|
| poelcat
|
and i'll start factoring them into a draft for f13
|
00:13
|
| * poelcat says f13 for one more channel highlight for jesse ;-)
|
00:14
|
| Sparks
|
Gees, are we already thinking f13?
|
00:14
|
| poelcat
|
well nobody else probably is, but I do :)
|
00:14
|
| Sparks
|
I mean, gees, we just got done with f11 and we are already thinking f13?
|
00:14
|
| Sparks
|
f13
|
00:14
|
| ianweller
|
always think ahead
|
00:14
|
| Sparks
|
f13... Wow... f13
|
00:15
|
| Sparks
|
:)
|
00:15
|
| quaid
|
yeah, poor Jesse
|
00:15
|
| quaid
|
his nick will light up for _years_
|
00:15
|
| poelcat
|
another important thing to consider is handoffs between translation team and docs
|
00:15
|
| poelcat
|
and to verify if those look right
|
00:15
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: How long did it take the translators to finish the RN for f11?
|
00:16
|
| jjmcd
|
several weeks - three i think
|
00:16
|
| poelcat
|
i created another special version for that: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html
|
00:16
|
| Sparks
|
and that's with making changes along the way, right?
|
00:16
|
| jjmcd
|
yes
|
00:16
|
| * Sparks would still like to figure out a better process so we aren't making so many changes
|
00:17
|
| jjmcd
|
I think it ought to go better with propere warning
|
00:17
|
| Sparks
|
Yeah
|
00:18
|
| Sparks
|
so any more input to the calendar?
|
00:18
|
| Sparks
|
poelcat: Can you put our weekly meeting on the ics?
|
00:19
|
| poelcat
|
Sparks: i can definitely try... there are some things that make creating the ics not so straight forward
|
00:20
|
| Sparks
|
I can imagine.
|
00:20
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, anything else about this topic?
|
00:20
|
| poelcat
|
as just building the taskjuggler file, but it will either work or it won't
|
00:20
|
| poelcat
|
the challenge is landing it at the right time
|
00:20
|
| poelcat
|
i'll look into it
|
00:20
|
| Sparks
|
Thanks
|
00:20
|
| poelcat
|
what is the official meeting time in UTC ?
|
00:21
|
| Sparks
|
0001 UTC
|
00:21
|
| Sparks
|
and we go for an hour or so
|
00:21
|
| poelcat
|
got it.. that's all from me
|
00:21
|
| Sparks
|
Thanks!
|
00:21
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone else?
|
00:21
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid
|
00:21
|
| * Sparks hears quaid has news
|
00:22
|
| Sparks
|
quaid: Ummm... quaid?
|
00:23
|
| joat
|
mebbe he didn't hear his que
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
ok
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
yeah, silent alarm or what
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
I don't have any more news than what was on list
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
i) we seem to have consensus
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
ii) but there is concern that people will feel overridden by the CLA directives being used
|
00:23
|
| quaid
|
iii) I'm writing a blog post that gives all the Real and Great Reasons we need to enact the nuclear option in the CLA
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
once that is out there...maybe a thread'O'doom on f-devel-l is called for?
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
the point is, we need to alert people the change is imminent
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
maybe set a deadline for comments? 2 weeks?
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
and spread the word wide and noisy
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
wait
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
then do it
|
00:24
|
| quaid
|
<eof.
|
00:25
|
| quaid
|
comments? questions?
|
00:25
|
| Sparks
|
Well... I'd like a quick vote... Does anyone have any problem with using the CLA to push the license change?
|
00:25
|
| quaid
|
vote--
|
00:25
|
| Sparks
|
+1 to changing the license using the nuclear option
|
00:25
|
| quaid
|
we have a consensus on list
|
00:25
|
| rudi
|
+1
|
00:25
|
| quaid
|
if there are objections,we need to take them right back to the discussion, is all I'm saying.
|
00:25
|
| Sparks
|
quaid: Yeah, I just want to make sure no one here has any problems that we can work on now.
|
00:25
|
| quaid
|
so even a single -1 == back to the list IMO
|
00:26
|
| Sparks
|
yes
|
00:26
|
| quaid
|
did I sufficiently answer Sparks questions on list?
|
00:26
|
| quaid
|
that was what made me realize I needed to do a wider post; reexplain from the top,etc.
|
00:26
|
| ianweller
|
what?
|
00:26
|
| quaid
|
ianweller: your coffee is boiling over
|
00:26
|
| ianweller
|
ocrap
|
00:27
|
| ianweller
|
;)
|
00:27
|
| ianweller
|
quaid: oh god a thread'O'doom?!
|
00:27
|
| ianweller
|
i don't need more email than i'm already getting
|
00:27
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone care to put a vote down or am I to assume that no vote is a +1 vote?
|
00:28
|
| jjmcd
|
I'll vote 0
|
00:28
|
| quaid
|
ianweller: I expect arrows, mud,and pitch
|
00:28
|
| ianweller
|
quaid: i expect all of that to be flaming. :(
|
00:29
|
| quaid
|
when we tell people that the CLA needs to be used to change a license like that
|
00:29
|
| * ianweller votes 0 on the proposal, i just wanna nuclearize it now ;)
|
00:29
|
| quaid
|
jjmcd: are you unsettled by something?
|
00:29
|
| quaid
|
at the least,folks,make sure I answer all the questions when I write this article :)
|
00:29
|
| jjmcd
|
I like the CC by SA, a little uncomfortable wit pushing too hard
|
00:29
|
| quaid
|
my argument is that we are on a teeny, tiny island all by ourselves
|
00:30
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: The problem we have is the problem of calling in everyone that has ever touched anything that is covered by the license. We just can't do that.
|
00:30
|
| quaid
|
for example,we rewrite GNOME docs each release.
|
00:30
|
| quaid
|
for our ability to do open content
|
00:30
|
| jjmcd
|
Yeah, the best we can do is to get all our current contributors to buy in
|
00:30
|
| quaid
|
the relicensing is crucial
|
00:30
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: Yes and I think we (Docs) has been doing that.
|
00:31
|
| quaid
|
ok, I'll write my piece, cross post it,and see where that goes
|
00:31
|
| jjmcd
|
I haven't heard objections, but I haven't heard from laubersm, don't recall Zach
|
00:31
|
| quaid
|
OK with setting a 2 week deadline for discussion?
|
00:31
|
| jjmcd
|
Sounds like a plan
|
00:32
|
| quaid
|
Apache consensus rules are in effect
|
00:32
|
| Sparks
|
quaid: Yes... 2 weeks from today. If we need to we'll hold a town hall meeting and I'll put you at the front of the room. :)
|
00:32
|
| quaid
|
if someone doesn't speak up in a reasonable period of time, that is taken as consent :)
|
00:32
|
| quaid
|
Sparks: OK!
|
00:32
|
| jjmcd
|
But lets make a special effort to be sure the F10 contributors have heard the story
|
00:32
|
| Sparks
|
:)
|
00:32
|
| quaid
|
jjmcd: how?
|
00:33
|
| quaid
|
that is, we've been discussing it on list for 6 weeks
|
00:33
|
| jjmcd
|
Direct email to those that haven't been here - I doubt there's more than 2 or three
|
00:33
|
| quaid
|
ok
|
00:33
|
| * quaid will do that
|
00:33
|
| jjmcd
|
I don't forsee a problem, but some have been busy lately, I'm thinking of laubersm but I suspect there may be one or two others
|
00:34
|
| Sparks
|
quaid: We can hit the list that goes to everyone that is on the Docs FAS group
|
00:34
|
| quaid
|
Sparks: but they should all be on f-docs-l
|
00:34
|
| quaid
|
I'll email people
|
00:34
|
| quaid
|
who committed changes to any repo for the last two releases
|
00:34
|
| jjmcd
|
Yeah, I don't know we need to go after the whole list - quaid - exactly
|
00:35
|
| quaid
|
but I don't want to circumnavigate the established channels of communication.
|
00:35
|
| quaid
|
the list == the channel, but hey :)
|
00:35
|
| jjmcd
|
;-)
|
00:35
|
| jjmcd
|
After listening to Paul and Jan maybe I'm a little over sensitive
|
00:36
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, anything else?
|
00:36
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Ian has news from CC on the licensing change marketing whatnottery
|
00:37
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: Go!
|
00:38
|
| Sparks
|
Is someone else asleep?
|
00:39
|
| jjmcd
|
hmmm - while I was watching ianweller changed from 10 minutes ago to 144 minutes ago, whats up with that
|
00:40
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, we'll come back to him.
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
what?
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
i'm here
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
sorry :)
|
00:40
|
| quaid
|
marketeer time
|
00:40
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: ^^^ topic
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00003.html <-- got this from CC today.
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
it's been sent to fedora-docs-list as you can tell.
|
00:40
|
| ianweller
|
that's all i've got ;)
|
00:40
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: Well... what is it?
|
00:42
|
| ianweller
|
that they're willing to make a blog post
|
00:42
|
| ianweller
|
saying "hey look they switched licenses whee"
|
00:42
|
| ianweller
|
and we just need top ing them when we're ready to do that
|
00:42
|
| Sparks
|
cool
|
00:43
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone have any questions?
|
00:43
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Shared open-source style guide
|
00:44
|
| Sparks
|
ke4qqq: You around tonight?
|
00:44
|
| Sparks
|
I guess not.
|
00:45
|
| Sparks
|
I don't think there has been any change. Does anyone have any questions or comments?
|
00:45
|
| ianweller
|
no
|
00:46
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Bugzilla Component Changes
|
00:46
|
| Sparks
|
#link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table
|
00:46
|
| Sparks
|
So I started the process of moving files around and removing the products from our BZ component.
|
00:46
|
| Sparks
|
If anyone has a project that needs to be in BZ please let me know and I can get you setup pretty quickly.
|
00:47
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone have any questions or comments?
|
00:47
|
| Sparks
|
#topic
|
00:48
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
|
00:48
|
| Sparks
|
#link http://tinyurl.com/lgx98o
|
00:48
|
| Sparks
|
If everyone would take a look at the above link...
|
00:48
|
| ianweller
|
those tickets are just outstanding! ;)
|
00:49
|
| Sparks
|
these are the outstanding tickets that were opened during the month of June that haven't been accepted.
|
00:49
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: Yes they are because these are tickets that people filed because they care enough about our products!
|
00:49
|
| ianweller
|
:D
|
00:49
|
| Sparks
|
I'm not going to go through them all tonight but I would like to start running through the ones we need to work on so we can respond to the appropriately.
|
00:50
|
| Sparks
|
but feel free to take one!
|
00:51
|
| Sparks
|
questions?
|
00:52
|
| Sparks
|
#topic DocsProject wiki pages changes
|
00:52
|
| Sparks
|
ianweller: What's the word on wikibot?
|
00:52
|
| ianweller
|
it's on my to-do list
|
00:52
|
| Sparks
|
Okay...
|
00:53
|
| ianweller
|
IOW, nothing. :(
|
00:53
|
| Sparks
|
Yeah... Well, we should probably revisit this again and see what needs to be done.
|
00:54
|
| Sparks
|
questions?
|
00:54
|
| Sparks
|
#topic With the new definition of alpha and beta, do we need to treat release notes differently?
|
00:54
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: Did you put this up there?
|
00:54
|
| jjmcd
|
Yes
|
00:55
|
| jjmcd
|
I wonder whether the one pager is in keeping with "feature complete"
|
00:55
|
| jjmcd
|
Not sure that it is realistic to do much more so early tho
|
00:55
|
| Sparks
|
the one pager? Is this the idea stickster_afk had at the FAD?
|
00:55
|
| jjmcd
|
But I haven't fully digested the schedule and what it means
|
00:56
|
| jjmcd
|
No, that's what poelcat just sait
|
00:56
|
| jjmcd
|
said
|
00:56
|
| jjmcd
|
What we used to do for beta
|
00:56
|
| Sparks
|
Ahhh
|
00:56
|
| Sparks
|
Well, if you want to do something different this time around I'm all ears.
|
00:57
|
| jjmcd
|
f13 really wants alpha and beta to actually be alpha and beta, and I understand his point
|
00:57
|
| jjmcd
|
but I obviously can't predict whether what he wants will actually happen
|
00:57
|
| jjmcd
|
So perhaps this needs another week for a more meaningful discussion, with proposals for ppl to chew on
|
00:58
|
| Sparks
|
worksfor me
|
00:59
|
| jjmcd
|
I'll digest it all over the next week
|
00:59
|
| jjmcd
|
Still haven't dug out from my email since I was away
|
00:59
|
| jjmcd
|
All that Berliner Kindl you know
|
00:59
|
| Sparks
|
:)
|
01:00
|
| Sparks
|
okay, so we'll discuss it more next week.
|
01:00
|
| jjmcd
|
Also I spoke with glezos and the German translator about their problems
|
01:01
|
| Sparks
|
Anything to report?
|
01:01
|
| jjmcd
|
Not really, just what you would expect, except perhaps
|
01:01
|
| jjmcd
|
that the new transifex will help us both
|
01:01
|
| rudi
|
Amen
|
01:01
|
| Sparks
|
when will that be up and running?
|
01:02
|
| rudi
|
Well, it's finally been packaged
|
01:02
|
| Sparks
|
That's encouraging.
|
01:02
|
| rudi
|
So I guess RSN :)
|
01:02
|
| rudi
|
As I understand, that was the blocker
|
01:03
|
| quaid
|
usually is
|
01:03
|
| rudi
|
;)
|
01:03
|
| jjmcd
|
Also
|
01:03
|
| * quaid >muffle, muffle, murg<
|
01:03
|
| jjmcd
|
spot didn't laugh too much at my spec file, so I guess I have more confidence in pushing to do whatever I need to in order to won that and get Jesse out of the loop
|
01:04
|
| * ianweller has to run, bye
|
01:04
|
| jjmcd
|
s/won/own
|
01:04
|
| jjmcd
|
seeYA ianweller
|
01:04
|
| jjmcd
|
eof
|
01:06
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, anything else?
|
01:06
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Guide needs?
|
01:06
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone have any needs for their guides?
|
01:06
|
| Sparks
|
I guess not...
|
01:07
|
| Sparks
|
#topic New Guides
|
01:07
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, someone put down the RPM guide
|
01:07
|
| Sparks
|
Who was that?
|
01:07
|
| jjmcd
|
Florian asked if we could take over the rpm guide
|
01:08
|
| jjmcd
|
apparently the guide in docs.fp.o might not be THE guide
|
01:08
|
| Sparks
|
Who is Florian?
|
01:08
|
| jjmcd
|
he is going to send me a link to their repo so I can look at it
|
01:08
|
| Sparks
|
I have no problems with it. I have a ticket open for it to be moved to the wiki for redevelopment.
|
01:08
|
| jjmcd
|
and then come to one of our meetings to discuss it
|
01:08
|
| Sparks
|
.bug 508930
|
01:09
|
| jjmcd
|
I see that, not sure that wiki is the desired target but
|
01:09
|
| buggbot
|
Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
|
01:09
|
| zodbot
|
Sparks: Bug 508930 Move RPM Guide to wiki - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930
|
01:09
|
| buggbot
|
Bug 508930: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
|
01:09
|
| quaid
|
um what?
|
01:09
|
| quaid
|
which guide is not which guide?
|
01:09
|
| jjmcd
|
we can discuss it when we have him on channel
|
01:09
|
| quaid
|
ok
|
01:09
|
| quaid
|
fwiw, yeah, converting from XML to wiki is rarely a good idea :)
|
01:09
|
| jjmcd
|
I think he is talking about the guide at rpm.org
|
01:10
|
| jjmcd
|
Evidently the rpm guys can't even build th guide
|
01:10
|
| Sparks
|
quaid: I know but things die in docs.fp.o, too
|
01:10
|
| jjmcd
|
So for now, jut a heads up that this is coming
|
01:11
|
| Sparks
|
jjmcd: Cool
|
01:11
|
| quaid
|
oh, I wonder if the one at rpm.org is the same guide, of sourts
|
01:11
|
| Sparks
|
Anyone else?
|
01:11
|
| quaid
|
ok, I'll hold my fire.
|
01:11
|
| Sparks
|
#topic All other business
|
01:13
|
| Sparks
|
Okay, does anyone have anything else?
|
01:13
|
| Sparks
|
5
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
4
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
3
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
2
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
1
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
Thanks for everyone coming!
|
01:14
|
| Sparks
|
#endmeeting
|
01:14
|
