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Sparks #startmeeting 00:01
Sparks #meetingtopic Docs Project meeting - Agenda: Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_July_9.2C_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29 00:01
* Sparks is here 00:01
* jjmcd is here - barely 00:02
* rudi is here 00:02
* laubersm hides in the back 00:02
ianweller hiiii 00:02
* mhideo here 00:02
* Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in 00:04
Sparks jjmcd: busy or tired? 00:04
jjmcd Just got back 2 minutes ago -- need coffee badly 00:04
Sparks Okay, let's get started... 00:06
Sparks #topic Using a forked version of Publican 00:06
Sparks #link 00:06
buggbot Bug 476471: medium, low, ---, petersen, ASSIGNED, Review Request: fedora-security-guide - A security guide for Linux 00:06
Sparks The link above is to the Security Guide which is where this question originates. The Security Guide wasn't supposed to have a component (fc11) attached to the name because it is not version specific. A hacked version of Publican was used to create the latest SRPMs which allowed us to do this. The reviewer is would like a concensus on whether using a forked (hacked) version of Publican to produce these files is okay or should we only allow "officia 00:07
Sparks This might be a moot point because Mike will talking about the new Publican (1.0) here in a sec... 00:07
Sparks but this might be something to look at from a distance as well. 00:07
ianweller Sparks: you fail at message lengths 00:07
ianweller Sparks: cut off at allow "officia 00:07
jjmcd Do you really need to hack Publican? Why not just make your own RPM? 00:07
Sparks ianweller: l" releases of Publican. 00:08
Sparks jjmcd: Well, at the time I was just trying to make the tool work. 00:08
* ianweller is against forking, just use a hacked rpm 00:08
Sparks The question is... can we use a non-supported tool to get the job done? 00:09
ianweller yes. 00:09
Sparks Anyone else? 00:10
jjmcd I would be concerned if someone needed some unavailable tool to build the document from sources. I'm less concerned about the rpm itself 00:10
ianweller yeah you would want to post what hacks you did 00:10
ianweller on the wiki, most likely 00:10
ianweller but other than that, whatever 00:10
Sparks ianweller: good point 00:10
ianweller wait. 00:10
ianweller Sparks: is the fedora-security-guide rpm created from docbook sources or does docbook stuff the rpm with html files? 00:11
ianweller s/docbook stuff/publican stuff/ 00:11
ianweller also, correct me if i sound stupid 00:11
Sparks ianweller: Good question. 00:11
jjmcd ianweller, I think the answer is yes 00:11
ianweller well then 00:11
ianweller wait. 00:12
Sparks The package built correctly in koji and looks appropriate 00:12
ianweller if the hacked version of publican isn't what's on koji then how can it work 00:12
jjmcd Because koji gets the srpm 00:12
Sparks because the hacked version is what created the srpm and spec... 00:12
Sparks the spec is what the problem is 00:12
ianweller ohhhhhhhh. 00:12
ianweller yeah don't worry about forking, just say on the wiki what the changes were so other people can reproduce it. 00:13
ianweller my USD 0.02 00:13
Sparks cool 00:13
Sparks anyone else? 00:13
stickster I'm still confused 00:14
stickster Isn't the hacked version of publican needed to do the building according to the spec? 00:14
* bcotton is perpetually confused 00:14
ianweller lol 00:14
stickster Or is the hack *purely* to change the way the srpm/spec are created, and has nothing to do with the build process? 00:14
Sparks stickster: the hack "fixed" the spec issues 00:14
Sparks nothing to do with the build process 00:15
stickster OK, question answered, thanks 00:15
Sparks anyone else? 00:15
Sparks #agreed We can use "hacked" versions of tools (Publican) to create SRPMs. 00:15
Sparks opps 00:15
Sparks That wasn't supposed to have gone out quite yet. 00:15
Sparks #agreed We can use "hacked" versions of tools (Publican) to create SRPMs as long as it doesn't affect the build process and the "hack" is documented on the wiki. 00:16
Sparks And while we are on the subject of Publican... 00:16
Sparks #topic The new and improved (and shiny, too) Publican. <-- mhideo 00:16
stickster disco 00:16
Sparks mhideo: Tell us about Publican 1.0, please. 00:16
mhideo One of the challenges with publican is the number of features that the software needs to support 00:17
mhideo everything from glossaries in japanese to printing non-A4 sized paper 00:17
mhideo lots of other things 00:17
mhideo the package maintainer has spent the last 3 months re-writing it to use plugins 00:18
mhideo so if you want a feature, you can write a dead-simple plug in for it 00:18
mhideo that way development does not bottleneck on a single soul and individual features can be trialed buy different writers/translators 00:18
mhideo Sparks, does the above make sense? 00:18
Sparks mhideo: yes it does! 00:19
Sparks mhideo: Is there documentation available for writing a plugin? 00:19
mhideo does anyone have any questions about the above? 00:19
stickster Is this available at the repo? 00:19
mhideo Sparks, that is the plan 00:19
mhideo stickster, not sure, 00:20
Sparks The documentation group is writing documentation on their documentation tool. 00:20
Sparks  :) 00:20
stickster mhideo: I'll check the site quick 00:20
Sparks fh.o would probably be a good place to put all the plugins and such. 00:21
mhideo most of our efforts over the next 2 weeks will revolve around regression testing 00:21
stickster mhideo: The last change in "bin/" is 5 months ago 00:21
mhideo that has been the largest problem so far. we make a change to fix problem X, but it introduces problem Y 00:22
stickster mhideo: That can't be right, can it? 00:22
mhideo stickster, i don't know 00:22
mhideo all i know at this point is that a QA guy does the regression testing next week sometime 00:22
Sparks mhideo: I think jsmith said he would be available to help test 00:22
mhideo a good way to help would be to go through all the publican bugs and write a test case for it 00:23
mhideo that is what my week will look like 00:23
Sparks mhideo: Any idea when 1.0 will hit the Fedora repos? 00:24
mhideo Sparks, that is the hard part, scheduling. i borrow devel time and qa time from folks. 00:25
Sparks understood 00:25
Sparks Any other questions? 00:26
mhideo the above is just fyi, i would proceed with your efforts as previously planned 00:26
Sparks Okay... Thanks for the update Mike. 00:26
Sparks Okay... moving on to some F12 talk... 00:27
Sparks #topic F12 Calendar 00:27
Sparks #link 00:27
Sparks #link 00:27
Sparks #link 00:27
Sparks These are the official calendars for the F12 release. Has everyone looked at them? Any corrections? 00:28
* juhp scrolls back 00:28
Sparks The first item coming down the road is just under four weeks away. 00:28
Sparks Any questions? 00:29
Sparks #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid 00:29
Sparks quaid: You here? 00:30
Sparks If he shows up later we'll come back to this. 00:30
Sparks AFAIK everything is on go for the switch... 00:30
Sparks quaid has been putting the word out and I haven't heard any flak from anyone. 00:31
Sparks Does anyone have any questions or comments? 00:31
Sparks #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq 00:32
Sparks #link 00:32
Sparks ke4qqq: You around? 00:32
Sparks We'll come back to this topic if he shows up. 00:33
Sparks #topic Bugzilla Component Changes 00:33
Sparks #link User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table 00:33
Sparks Okay, so all the BZ products on the lower part of that table have been removed from BZ. 00:34
Sparks All the open tickets were closed as WONTFIX. 00:35
Sparks I haven't done anything with the "Move to the wiki" guides as stickster had a good idea to not move them to the wiki but just wait for the CMS to come and put them in there for development... 00:36
Sparks so we don't have to mess with formatting and such. 00:36
Sparks Any questions or comments? 00:36
stickster Sparks: Sorry, was PM'ing with someone else 00:36
Sparks stickster: Did you have anything? 00:37
laubersm did anyone check with translation teams about those two at the bottom of the abandon list? They seem to be a still relevent topic unless there is a replacement 00:37
Sparks yes.. 00:38
stickster Not really Sparks -- just saw my name pop up. I agree somewhat with quaid that we don't want to move things twice, or move them in a way that decimates metadata we might want 00:38
Sparks they said dump them. they are no longer supported. 00:38
laubersm cool 00:38
Sparks stickster: Yeah. Valid. Of course I'm having problems locating some of the source...  :( 00:39
laubersm other wise list looks good to me - with the "move to wiki" really meaning "move to place of a more living doc - such as wiki or cms" 00:39
Sparks laubersm: Yeah, I'll change that. 00:39
stickster Sparks: Where? 00:40
stickster Sparks: sorry, which source? 00:40
* laubersm sees translation quick start in the keep now... 00:40
* laubersm is slowly catching up 00:40
Sparks stickster: For some of the documents we were going to move to the... CMS. 00:40
Sparks Okay, anything else? 00:42
stickster Sparks: Right, I meant which documents are causing you problems 00:42
Sparks stickster: Oh, I don't remember. I'll look again this week and notate on the page. 00:43
Sparks Okay... let's move on to everyone's favorite topic... stuff to do! 00:44
Sparks #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:44
Sparks link 00:45
Sparks The link above shows all the tickets that are currently NEW or ASSIGNED for Documentation. Please take a look in there and see if there is a ticket (or two) that you can work on. If so, please assign it to yourself. I'd like for everyone to update their tickets weekly (prefereably on Wednesdays before the meeting) so I can keep track of what needs attention and what doesn't. 00:45
Sparks Comments or questions? 00:45
Sparks #link 00:45
Sparks okay... moving right along... 00:48
Sparks #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes 00:48
Sparks ianweller: I won't ask what the status is of the wikibot... 00:48
Sparks but I will ask about the status of ianbot! 00:48
ricky Interesting. 00:48
ricky Even though it's zodbot, the command is still #? 00:48
ricky s/command/character 00:48
Sparks So is there still a list of changes that need to happen to the wiki? 00:49
ianweller ricky: yeah it's cuz meetbot is a snarfer 00:49
ianweller Sparks: yes. 00:49
ricky They must have done some extra-weird stuff to get it that way. 00:49
ianweller Sparks: they're in fh.o/fedora-wiki 00:49
Sparks Okay. So can you give us a summary next week of what needs to be done? Maybe we can put a task out on the wiki for a newbie to work on. 00:50
* stickster sees that some of those tickets are his and will work on them this weekend 00:51
Sparks stickster: TU 00:52
* jjmcd_ started on some RN tickets but ran into a git wall ... need to get back at that 00:53
Sparks Okay... moving on... 00:53
Sparks #topic Release Notes meeting 00:53
Sparks I sent a message to f-doc-l earlier this week about a Release Notes meeting. Please look at that message and let me know your availability if you want to work on the F12 RNs. 00:54
Sparks Questions or comments? 00:54
jjmcd_ I am now free most of thu/fri, wasn't earlier but am now 00:55
* Sparks doesn't know if you can go back and change your answers. 00:55
jjmcd_ me too 00:55
Sparks jjmcd_: Well, let me know. 00:56
Sparks Anyone else? 00:56
Sparks #topic Guide needs? 00:56
Sparks Does anyone need anything for their guides? 00:56
Sparks #topic New Guides 00:57
Sparks Anyone have any ideas for a new guide? 00:57
Sparks I know that the RPM Guide could use some love. 00:57
Sparks Anyone want to volunteer to work on the RPM Guide? 00:58
jjmcd_ I still need to hear from Florian 00:59
jjmcd_ I'll ping him 00:59
bcotton i can learn what i need about RPM to work on the guide if nobody who knows what they're doing steps up 00:59
Sparks Okay. I've added the RPM Guide to the Guide table. 00:59
Sparks bcotton: The guide already exists but needs to be updated. You might look at what's existing and go from there. 01:00
bcotton sparks: can do. any guidance on what kind of updates it needs, or just in general? 01:00
Sparks in general. Not sure when it was last looked at. 01:01
Sparks bcotton: Get with me after the meeting in #fedora-docs. 01:01
bcotton Sparks: aye, cap'n 01:01
jjmcd_ I think it talks about punch card rpms 01:01
Sparks oooo Those are the good kinds 01:01
Sparks s/kinds/kind 01:02
jjmcd_ easier to edit than paper tape 01:02
* Sparks likes paper tape 01:02
bcotton did i bring my X-acto knife for nothing, then? :'( 01:03
Sparks Well, I'm sure you can figure out some way to use it. 01:03
Sparks anything else? 01:04
Sparks #topic Go over task table 01:05
Sparks I believe all the tasks that are in the task table are now in Bugzilla. I'd like to use Bugzilla for tracking all these items. Opinions? 01:06
Sparks anyone? 01:07
* bcotton feels very neutral 01:07
Sparks Okay then... 01:07
Sparks #topic All other business 01:08
Sparks Anyone have anything? 01:08
Sparks If not... we'll close... 01:09
Sparks 5 01:10
Sparks 4 01:10
Sparks 3 01:10
Sparks 2 01:10
Sparks 1 01:10
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! 01:10
Sparks #endmeeting 01:10