Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090806

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Sparks #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01
Sparks #topic Roll Call 00:01
* Sparks 00:01
* danielsmw is here. 00:01
* itbegins is here 00:01
jjmcd hier ben ik 00:01
* ianweller 00:01
* rudi is here 00:01
ianweller quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;) 00:02
quaid heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi 00:03
* quaid is here, too 00:03
itbegins ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS) 00:03
* ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;) 00:04
Sparks itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight 00:04
itbegins ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done 00:04
ianweller hehe 00:04
itbegins Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00 00:05
itbegins anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log... 00:05
quaid what? you took the weekend OFF? 00:06
* quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D 00:06
Sparks Okay, let's get started... 00:06
itbegins quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan 00:06
Sparks #topic Last week's action items 00:06
Sparks Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. 00:06
Sparks #action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm 00:06
Sparks Yeah, I didn't get that done. 00:07
Sparks Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm 00:07
Sparks done 00:07
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:07
Sparks We'll come back to this one a little later. 00:07
Sparks rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license 00:07
Sparks #action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm 00:08
rudi Well, I've got a sample in place here: 00:08
rudi http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:08
Sparks rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track. 00:08
Sparks rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion. 00:08
rudi Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday 00:08
rudi KK 00:08
Sparks Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula 00:09
Sparks #action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm 00:09
Sparks Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules. 00:09
Sparks stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done. 00:09
danielsmw It was; I saw it. 00:09
Sparks Cool 00:09
Sparks Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:09
itbegins I am sort of working on this as well 00:09
itbegins from the Zikula community side 00:10
Sparks itbegins: cool 00:10
itbegins I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go 00:10
Sparks Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it. 00:10
Sparks #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:11
Sparks Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide 00:11
Sparks Yeah, I failed on this one too... 00:12
* rudi will take it but is time poor right now 00:12
Sparks rudi: The Open-Source guide? 00:12
Sparks rudi: or the BZ component 00:12
rudi Sparks -- the OS guide 00:12
Sparks #action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:13
Sparks rudi: Thank you 00:13
Sparks I'll get on the BZ component tonight. 00:13
Sparks #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm 00:13
quaid Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah 00:13
Sparks Excellent 00:13
Sparks quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons... 00:14
Sparks and I think the more people that get on that project the better 00:14
quaid yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine 00:14
Sparks cool 00:14
Sparks Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki 00:14
Sparks This is inprogress. 00:15
Sparks #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm 00:15
Sparks Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"? 00:15
Sparks #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:16
Sparks Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight... 00:16
Sparks but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight. 00:16
Sparks J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having 00:17
Sparks so hopefully all that will be squared away soon. 00:17
Sparks I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow. 00:18
Sparks Does anyone have anything questions or ideas? 00:18
itbegins Sparks, do you know what to install etc? 00:19
Sparks itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo. 00:19
itbegins Sparks, ok, then run install.php 00:19
Sparks Cool, thanks. 00:19
itbegins Sparks, you'll need a database ready 00:19
Sparks ya 00:19
itbegins in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB 00:20
itbegins due to the amount of setup work I did 00:20
Sparks I could do that, too. 00:20
itbegins though it can be replicated with a bit of work 00:20
Sparks I don't plan on wipeing that out. 00:20
itbegins if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system 00:20
itbegins I assume it will be puppetized anyway 00:20
Sparks eventually, yes. 00:20
Sparks This is a preparation to puppetizing everything. 00:21
itbegins THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme 00:21
itbegins I sent the source to ke4qqq previously 00:21
ricky Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that? 00:21
Sparks I don't think those have been packaged. 00:21
Sparks But we need to get those in the repo asap. 00:21
ricky We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like 00:21
ricky Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-) 00:21
Sparks ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use 00:22
ricky Cool, we like RPMs :-) 00:22
Sparks Okay, anything else? 00:23
itbegins That's it from my side 00:24
Sparks #topic Status on CC license rollout.\ 00:24
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:24
quaid a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed 00:25
Sparks Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback. 00:25
itbegins If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet... 00:25
Sparks rudi: Let's talk about your page you made. 00:25
* ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement 00:25
ianweller #action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement 00:26
ianweller  ;) 00:26
Sparks ianweller: Thank you 00:26
Sparks rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement? 00:26
rudi As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to. 00:27
Sparks Do we want an attribute statement? 00:27
rudi I'm in two minds about it. 00:27
quaid #link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:28
rudi It increases transparency about how to re-use the material 00:28
rudi But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse 00:29
Sparks I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it. 00:29
quaid it "feels" restrictive to reusers? 00:30
Sparks "You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..." 00:31
quaid I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n" 00:31
Sparks I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them. 00:31
* quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too 00:31
rudi Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict 00:32
Sparks rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement? 00:32
rudi Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are 00:33
rudi Transparently 00:33
Sparks So spell out what the license is telling them to do 00:34
rudi Pretty much 00:34
Sparks Okay, I'm good with that. 00:34
Sparks Anyone else have an opinion? 00:34
rudi There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back. 00:35
rudi You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those 00:35
quaid ah, that avoids the long list of names? 00:35
rudi No. 00:35
rudi That's the first 00:35
rudi Which we could also choose 00:36
quaid oic, sorry, misparsed 00:36
Sparks Okay 00:36
quaid 'specific name', gotcha 00:36
Sparks So +1 for only linking back. 00:36
quaid just for ye ole debil's advocate sake 00:36
quaid why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team" 00:37
rudi Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project" 00:37
quaid and avoid tracking a list of names? 00:37
* ianweller has to eat, bbl 00:37
quaid or "The Fedora Project" 00:37
rudi indeed 00:37
jjmcd That list of names is important to some 00:37
* Sparks likes "The Fedora Project" 00:37
Sparks jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long. 00:38
rudi jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option 00:38
quaid I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it. 00:38
jjmcd Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc? 00:38
jjmcd re-user grrrr 00:38
rudi jjmcd -- yes 00:39
jjmcd Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that 00:39
quaid jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP 00:39
rudi jjmcd -- don't forget L10N 00:40
quaid exactly 00:40
quaid and Design 00:40
quaid and the Publican team for the cool look 00:40
quaid and etc. 00:40
quaid One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater; 00:40
quaid even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name 00:41
quaid everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo 00:41
Sparks WE ARE FEDORA 00:41
quaid no one gets to call their package 00:41
quaid quaid-zikula-foo.rpm 00:41
Sparks no? 00:41
quaid how about this 00:41
Sparks Is that against the package naming rules? 00:41
quaid do rpm -qi $anypackage 00:42
quaid do you see the packagers name in there? 00:42
* radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review.. 00:42
quaid why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press? 00:42
quaid shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document? 00:42
* quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!" 00:43
quaid anyway, sorry, different debate 00:43
quaid but not a problem we should push on reusers 00:43
quaid so +1 to The Fedora Project from me 00:43
* quaid steps down carefully from his soap box 00:43
* Sparks calls for a vote 00:43
Sparks Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:44
Sparks +1 00:44
rudi +1 00:44
jjmcd +1 00:44
danielsmw +1 00:44
quaid +1 00:44
Sparks #agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:45
Sparks Okay, anything else on the license? 00:45
Sparks #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq 00:46
rudi Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal 00:46
Sparks Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this. 00:46
Sparks Anything else? 00:46
Sparks rudi: Thanks 00:46
Sparks #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:46
* Sparks moves on 00:47
Sparks #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:47
Sparks Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job. 00:47
Sparks I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon. 00:48
Sparks If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues... 00:48
Sparks especially if they are from a user. 00:48
Sparks If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem. 00:49
* Sparks notes some people got knocked off there. 00:50
Sparks Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets 00:50
Sparks  ? 00:50
quaid anyone want mine? 00:51
Sparks quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do. 00:51
quaid good for ya! 00:51
Sparks  :) 00:51
Sparks #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki 00:52
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation 00:52
jjmcd wheeeeee 00:52
Sparks And jjmcd's back! 00:53
Sparks jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out. 00:53
Sparks Okay... Draft Documentation 00:53
jjmcd did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit? 00:53
Sparks no 00:53
Sparks after the meeting? 00:54
jjmcd tomorrow's 11AM 00:54
Sparks No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting? 00:54
Sparks or do we need to talk about them now? 00:54
jjmcd Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too 00:55
jjmcd The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility 00:56
Sparks I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward 00:56
jjmcd and if so, in what form/format 00:56
jjmcd Well, we never really did get to a complete answer 00:56
Sparks jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728. 00:57
buggbot Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible. 00:57
* Sparks dislikes buggbot. 00:57
* ianweller is confused at 228728. 00:57
jjmcd we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc 00:57
jjmcd let me see if i fat-fingered it 00:58
jjmcd 228729 sri 00:59
* Sparks is now curious what 228728 is. 00:59
Sparks jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now 01:00
jjmcd prolly some super secret rhel thingie 01:00
Sparks prolly 01:00
Sparks jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this? 01:00
jjmcd Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o 01:01
jjmcd which we have covered sort of 01:01
rudi http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated 01:01
jjmcd does it work in internet exploder? 01:01
jjmcd I have no argument with that language 01:02
Sparks Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere. 01:02
rudi Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license 01:02
jjmcd yeah, I know. Just pokin' 01:03
rudi  :) 01:03
Sparks Okay 01:04
Sparks Draft Documentation 01:04
Sparks it's there... 01:04
Sparks Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along. 01:04
Sparks #topic Guide needs? 01:05
Sparks Does anyone need anything for their Guide? 01:05
Sparks #topic New Guides 01:05
Sparks Anyone have any new guide ideas? 01:05
jjmcd yeah, but not until after F12 01:06
Sparks jjmcd: What you got? 01:06
jjmcd A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs 01:06
Sparks jjmcd: Count me in 01:06
jjmcd  ;-) 01:06
Sparks Anyone else? 01:06
Sparks #topic All other business 01:07
Sparks Does anyone have anything else? 01:07
* Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting 01:07
jjmcd well, these manager types 01:07
Sparks ya.. tell me about it 01:08
jjmcd you know how THEY are 01:08
Sparks ANYONE? ANYTHING? 01:08
jjmcd is there any useful docs for zikula? 01:08
Sparks I don't know 01:08
jjmcd Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it 01:09
Sparks #action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs 01:09
jjmcd zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful 01:10
Sparks Anything else? 01:10
Sparks 5 01:11
Sparks 4 01:11
Sparks 3 01:11
Sparks 2 01:11
Sparks 1 01:11
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! 01:11
Sparks #endmeeting 01:11