Meeting:Docs IRC log 20090917

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Sparks #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:02
zodbot Meeting started Thu Sep 17 00:02:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:02
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:02
Sparks #topic Roll Call 00:02
* Sparks 00:02
* stickster 00:02
* jjmcd is here 00:02
* joat . 00:03
* rudi is here 00:03
stickster Sparks: Should the schedule tasks be on the agenda too? 00:03
* danielsmw 00:04
stickster http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html 00:04
Sparks stickster: Probably 00:04
Sparks We'll shoe horn it in 00:04
stickster I'd recommend that be there on a regular basis, just to avoid any sudden screechy left-hand turns 00:04
Sparks Yeah 00:04
stickster Even if the kids in the back think it's fun 00:04
jjmcd Trubble is, we're already in that state 00:05
Sparks Okay, let's get going! 00:05
* Tsagadai is here but late :) 00:05
Sparks #topic Last week's action items 00:05
Sparks quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme 00:05
Sparks quaid: You here tonight? 00:05
stickster Sparks: I can fill in here 00:06
Sparks stickster: go! 00:06
stickster mizmo worked for many hours the other night on Zikula theme 00:06
stickster But there is some very significant broken stuff in Zikula itself that made the work slow, frustrating, and ultimately unfinished 00:06
stickster mizmo has to punt for now because the web design is higher priority and there's too much Zikula architecture stuff to figure out for her to progress as fast as she's used to doing with other frameworks 00:07
stickster eof 00:07
* jjmcd thinks that after we come up for air we need to work on zik dox 00:08
Sparks stickster: So do we need to find someone else to work on the skins? 00:08
stickster Sparks: mchua is going to do that 00:08
Sparks Okay... Good to know. 00:09
Sparks jjmcd: zik dox? 00:09
* stickster is a little disappointed at Zikula progress -- not because people didn't put forth superhuman effort, because they *did* 00:09
jjmcd My exploration of zikula was hampered by horrible dox 00:09
jjmcd lots of them, all useless 00:09
stickster More because there's so many broken pieces when you dig inside. 00:09
Sparks jjmcd: Yeah 00:09
Sparks stickster: I agree 00:09
Sparks There were a lot of people that put a lot of work into it and found it "not as advertised" 00:10
stickster It makes me want to get further information on (1) how we decided on it, and (2) re-evaluate that process so that we can learn from the experience 00:10
stickster But moreover 00:10
stickster I think having itbegins around has been helpful 00:10
* mchua here 00:10
stickster And I want to make sure that what we're learning is being fed back to the Zikula community for action 00:10
* mchua reads backlog 00:10
stickster mchua: No biggie, just letting Sparks know that you are going to be on the lookout for more theming help for Zikula 00:10
jjmcd stickster, that's why I say, once we get capacity free, we ought to help them out, too 00:11
stickster jjmcd: A significant portion of the problem may be issues we can't solve, though -- like architectural issues, according to mizmo 00:11
jjmcd since they helped us 00:11
Sparks stickster: Yeah, we've received a lot of support... but we had to re-engineer so much... 00:11
stickster I have no idea myself, not sure I'd know from looking at it anyway :-) 00:11
mchua itbegins and mizmo have cleared their plates completely of FI items, so itbegins can help more people do FI stuff instead of doing tons of it himself 00:11
jjmcd Oh yeah, we need to give them guidance, but without simon, would you have gotten off the ground? 00:11
stickster Not sure. 00:12
stickster Anyway, don't let me derail your agenda Sparks, I think we answered the status bit 00:12
mchua All the remaining FI work is listed in https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Fedora+Insight&order=priority in a manner that is pick-uppable by passers-by. We're trying to doc everything as we go along so future zikula deployments will be smoother. 00:12
mchua but yeah, there have been a lot of hacks as we approach the endgame. 00:13
stickster mchua: Not to mention the hacking we did in the startgame too :-) 00:13
mchua ...that too, yeah. 00:13
Sparks Okay... we'll get more into Zikula in a bit.. 00:13
Sparks moving on 00:13
Sparks quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:13
Sparks Anyone know about the outcome of this? I feel we have revisited this more times than not. 00:14
rudi Haven't heard anything new about it; don't know if quaid has broached the subject with Richard 00:14
rudi So, AFAIK, Richard's previous advice stands 00:14
Sparks #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:15
Sparks danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite 00:15
Sparks This didn't happen. Has anyone stepped up to do this? 00:15
danielsmw Sparks: Here's my update. 00:16
danielsmw I looked at using TinyMCE and worked at that spec file for a bit 00:16
danielsmw I later consulted with abadger1999 and figured out that TinyMCE would be basically impossible to package without 4 or 5 other packages that are questionably packagable 00:16
Sparks oh, danielsmw IS here! Welcome! 00:17
danielsmw Yes, I'm here. :) 00:17
* stickster shouts Howdy to danielsmw 00:17
Sparks danielsmw: So scratch TinyMCE 00:17
danielsmw Anyway, we've picked up Xinha as our new option, as long as everyone's okay with that. 00:17
danielsmw yes, scratch TinyMCE. 00:17
danielsmw Xinha looks like it has compliant licenses 00:17
danielsmw and is packagable. 00:17
Sparks danielsmw: I'm good with whatever works! 00:17
danielsmw i'm almost done with the spec file, it's just complicated because of the lack of js guidelines. 00:18
danielsmw but abadger1999 is helping with that and hopefully i'll have it up for review before next wednesday. 00:18
* ianweller is here now 00:18
Sparks abadger1999++ 00:18
danielsmw Indeed 00:18
Sparks danielsmw++ 00:18
Sparks Excellent! 00:18
Sparks Okay... moving on... 00:18
Sparks ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved 00:18
Sparks ianweller: Just in time! 00:18
Sparks ianweller: I think you did this already... didn't you? 00:19
onekopaka which CC license? 00:20
Sparks CC-BY-SA 00:20
onekopaka mmkay. 00:20
Sparks ianweller was here.... 00:20
Sparks We'll come back to him later... 00:20
ianweller hi 00:21
onekopaka Sparks: he disappears when he wants to. 00:21
ianweller my internet is suck tonight 00:21
Sparks ianweller: hi 00:21
ianweller aaaagain 00:21
stickster  :-D 00:21
ianweller Sparks: all it needs to say is the message that "blah blah blah is licensed under blah blah blah" at the bottom of the page, just like every CC site 00:21
ianweller Sparks: unless you're looking for something different 00:21
ianweller i'm not sure if it's a good thing that my ISP's phone number is a busy signal right now ^_^ 00:22
ianweller Sparks: is that good? 00:23
Sparks ianweller: Works for me... 00:23
ianweller ok 00:23
Sparks Any other old business? 00:23
rudi Publican update? 00:24
Sparks #topic Publican Update 00:24
Sparks rudi: Go for it! 00:24
* quaid is back 00:24
rudi radsy, ryanlerch, and I are still waiting for sponsorship so that we can get Publican dependencies into Fedora 00:24
rudi Once that's done, we can move ahead with both 1.0 and with the updated Fedora brand package. 00:25
stickster ianweller: I think as the wiki czar, you're empowered to make the change, fwiw 00:25
rudi So, any trusted packagers out there, we need you :) 00:25
stickster ianweller: As long as we've notified people the change is coming, why, etc. 00:25
rudi * perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.27-1.fc11.noarch.rpm – https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521569 00:26
buggbot Bug 521569: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext - Joins the gettext and Maketext frameworks 00:26
rudi * perl-Makefile-DOM-0.004-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521724 00:26
buggbot Bug 521724: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-DOM - Simple DOM parser for Makefiles 00:26
rudi * perl-Makefile-Parser-0.211-1.fc11.noarch.rpm — https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521723 00:26
buggbot Bug 521723: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-Parser - Simple parser for Makefiles 00:26
Sparks rudi: Okay. Do we need anyone to give a nudge to someone? 00:26
rudi Well, unless we have any trusted packagers in the docs group, I'm open to suggestions... 00:26
rudi This is the blocker right now for Publican 00:27
rudi ianweller -- are you a trusted packager? 00:27
ianweller rudi: i guess 00:28
Sparks rudi: I don't think we have any trusted packagers in Docs. Heck, until a few months ago we didn't have packagers in Docs. 00:28
Sparks ianweller: Are you? 00:28
ianweller they trust me enough to sponsor people 00:28
rudi Great! That's what we need :) 00:28
* ianweller trusts himself less than the community trusts him ;) 00:28
rudi lolz 00:28
rudi IMHO, that's always a good sign 00:29
rudi Do you think you'll have the time to look at those in the near future>? 00:30
rudi (and, of course, would you want to?) 00:30
Sparks rudi: Can you get with ianweller after the meeting, maybe? 00:31
rudi NP 00:31
Sparks rudi: So basically after that you can support the fedora brand in Publican 00:32
rudi Yep 00:32
Sparks Cool 00:32
Sparks Okay, moving on... 00:32
Sparks #topic Release notes format changes 00:32
Sparks #idea Put All Changes in a separate doc? 00:33
Sparks #idea Drop beats with few changes 00:33
jjmcd Pretty much did them all except the separate doc ... moved them to the end 00:33
Sparks #idea Rearrange/add beats 00:33
jjmcd I think we are ready to make pots. Still a couple of beats to touch up, but we should be at the 90% point. 00:33
Sparks jjmcd: Cool... 00:33
jjmcd Many many thanks to rudi and Zach 00:33
Sparks So the RNs are on schedule? 00:33
jjmcd L10N will love the 8000+ strings, but I think we'll hide that from them. 00:34
rudi jjmcd -- so you're ready to pull the trigger now? :) 00:34
jjmcd Sparks, no, not at all 00:34
jjmcd rudi yeah 00:34
Sparks jjmcd: No? 00:34
jjmcd Most recent build at http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/index.html 00:34
jjmcd Sparks, even after 900 cycles with john 00:34
rudi Great -- I'll doctor up a POT file after the meeting :) 00:34
jjmcd the wiki freeze came AFTER the pots in the schedule 00:34
jjmcd We should have had pots last week 00:35
jjmcd With luck, tomorrow. And yeah, htanks much rudi. I would appreciate that 00:35
Sparks Okay. Anything I can do to help? Do you need more resources? 00:35
jjmcd Well, we should now be in good shape 00:36
Sparks Okay 00:36
Sparks Anything else? 00:36
jjmcd THere are a couple of lame beats, but most of the changes were in virt 00:36
jjmcd Also, I got surprised with a huge FEL document 00:36
jjmcd I trimmed it way down, but it is still too large 00:36
jjmcd Chitlesh has been working his butt off 00:37
jjmcd But it is now under control 00:37
Sparks cool 00:37
Sparks anything/one else? 00:37
jjmcd thats it from me 00:37
Sparks moving on... 00:37
Sparks #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:37
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:38
stickster jjmcd: rudi: Thanks for your hard work 00:38
Sparks So Zikula has stalled on the runway... Are we now pushing this for f13 for sure? 00:38
quaid I think we were clearly not making it for F12, but shortly thereafter 00:39
Sparks Okay 00:39
quaid we'll be able to ride 80%+ on the Fedora Insight work going on 00:39
stickster Assuming that proceeds well 00:39
quaid skin, integration, etc. 00:39
Sparks WORKSFORME 00:39
quaid stickster: well, that would only adjust my 80% down the scale some amount 00:39
quaid I hope :) 00:39
Sparks I guess the question now is... do we want to try to work on the existing docs.fp.o to clean it up for F12? 00:40
* mchua wonders if Docs is interested in a zikula sprint for FUDCon as well 00:40
Sparks mchua: Which FUDCon? 00:40
mchua f12 00:40
jjmcd or perhaps a docs.fp.o cleanup 00:41
mchua as a "Marketing got FI up, let's make our experience useful for Docs" thing infra-wise 00:41
mchua and a "Docs is good at writing/workflows, Marketing can learn from Docs in getting an FI zikula workflow tweaked" thing as well, perhaps 00:41
Sparks mchua: I'm good with that 00:42
mchua Ok. Who should I be coordinating with on that to see if it's a possibility then? Sparks, is that you? 00:42
Sparks mchua: Sure. 00:42
mchua cool. action item me. ;) 00:43
Sparks mchua: Are we talking about the FUDCon in Toronto? 00:43
mchua yup. 00:43
jjmcd I think it's too cold for these southern boys 00:43
Sparks #action mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto 00:43
Sparks jjmcd: It is concerning 00:43
Sparks Okay... anythign else? 00:45
Sparks #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:45
Sparks #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:45
Sparks I think we are waiting for the last minute request for quaid to talk to Richard about the CC logo on the wiki 00:46
Sparks otherwise our next step is to announce internally of the change 00:46
quaid well ... 00:46
quaid spot: ping 00:47
spot quaid: yes? 00:47
quaid have you heard anything about discussions with Creative Commons 00:47
quaid about using their logo on our websites? 00:47
spot i have not... should i have? 00:47
quaid rfontana said he was going to pursue something with them perhaps. 00:48
spot send him an email and cc me 00:48
quaid ok, not sure if you were in that loop or not, I reckon not 00:48
spot and i will stay on him 00:48
quaid yeah, he said on list that he was going to look in to it, and I didn't want overly bug him :) 00:48
quaid but I'll do that now 00:48
quaid Sparks: k, we've reached 00:48
spot he tends to be busy 00:48
quaid the time when i said I'd bug him if we hadn't gotten word 00:48
quaid so I'll do that :) 00:48
spot i have regular meetings with him to make sure stuff doesn't get lost 00:48
rudi For us to be happy to use the logo, CC would have to change *their* licensing... 00:49
stickster He's a good mug and won't mind being bugged 00:49
rudi I suspect that even if they agree in principle, it would take time for them to implement that change 00:49
quaid rudi: well, or give us a specific exception that satisfied us, but ... 00:49
quaid that might have the same effect :) 00:49
quaid I think we should, as rudi is perhaps hinting 00:49
Sparks rudi: They wouldn't have to change their license. We could only use it on the wiki. 00:50
quaid proceed as if we don't get the logos to use 00:50
rudi Sparks -- ie, change their license 00:50
Sparks rudi: Well... yes, they'd have to change for us to use it on our docs 00:50
rudi quaid -- that is indeed what I'm hinting :) 00:50
Sparks ya 00:51
Sparks Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to go back and put the logo in on the wiki... 00:51
rudi Exactly 00:51
Sparks So... all in favor of proceeding with just the text of the CC-BY-SA 00:51
Sparks +1 00:51
rudi +1 00:51
quaid +1 00:52
mchua +1 00:52
stickster +1 fwiw 00:52
Tsagadai +1 00:52
jjmcd abstain 00:52
Sparks jjmcd: Is there a problem or??? 00:52
jjmcd Nope, I see no prob either way 00:52
Sparks #agreed Proceed with CC licensing using only the text 00:53
Sparks quaid: Will you still follow up on the logo issue? 00:53
Sparks #action quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues 00:54
Sparks moving on! 00:54
Sparks #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:54
Sparks #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:54
Sparks Does anyone have an update on this? 00:55
rudi No progess since last week 00:55
Sparks rudi: Okay 00:55
Tsagadai not really an update as such but that may come up when I bring in a few things in a couple of weeks :) 00:55
Sparks rudi: Anything to talk about on this topic? 00:55
Sparks Tsagadai: Okay 00:55
Tsagadai there are 3 docs I have which I've scheduled to upstream as soon as I get a chance 00:56
rudi Sparks -- I'm not sure what the last you heard was; I have a greenlight from legal to take most of our internal material upstream 00:56
Sparks rudi: I didn't know! Excellent 00:56
Sparks rudi: Just keep us updated. 00:56
rudi So it now rests on time arising in my schedule, because legal will need to greenlight the final subset I pull out to use 00:57
Sparks Okay... cool deal 00:57
Sparks anything else? 00:57
rudi Tsagadai -- 3 docs for the upstream Style Guide? 00:57
* Sparks notes two minutes left 00:58
Tsagadai nope, Virt Guide, Git guide, libvirt API guide :) 00:58
rudi Ah OK -- you're ahead of us :) 00:58
Sparks okay, pressing on 00:58
Sparks #topic Guide needs? 00:58
Sparks Anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:59
* stickster has to bail for now 00:59
Sparks #topic New Guides 00:59
Sparks Any new guides? 00:59
Sparks #topic All other business 01:00
rudi Sparks -- I might *very maybe* have an early version of a Power Management guide 01:00
Sparks Okay, any other business anyone would like to talk about? 01:00
rudi But that's more likely to make F13 01:00
Sparks rudi: Ooooo sounds cool 01:00
Sparks Okay, anyone else? 01:01
Sparks 5 01:01
Sparks 4 01:01
Sparks 3 01:01
perspectival I've just sent an update concerning the Deployment Guide to the fedora-docs-list 01:01
Sparks 2 01:01
Sparks perspectival: +1 01:01
perspectival I try to come in at the last minute 01:01
Sparks  :) 01:01
Sparks 1 01:01
Sparks Anyone else? 01:01
Sparks Thanks everyone for coming! 01:01
Sparks #endmeeting 01:01