| Sparks
| #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
| 00:02
|
| zodbot
| Meeting started Thu Nov 19 00:02:20 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
| 00:02
|
| zodbot
| Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
| 00:02
|
| Sparks
| #topic Roll Call
| 00:02
|
| * Sparks
| 00:02
|
| * radsy is here
| 00:02
|
| * rudi is here
| 00:02
|
| * bcotton is here
| 00:02
|
| * jjmcd .
| 00:02
|
| * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes
| 00:04
|
| Sparks
| Okay, let's get started
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| #chair jjmcd
| 00:08
|
| zodbot
| Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| #topic Docs Project Leader Elections
| 00:08
|
| Sparks
| When I took this job back in January(?) I wanted to make sure that we had elections for a new leader after F12 got released.
| 00:09
|
| Sparks
| So here is my suggestion...
| 00:09
|
| Sparks
| We take nominations starting tonight and vote next week.
| 00:09
|
| Sparks
| Thoughts?
| 00:09
|
| jjmcd
| wikipage
| 00:09
|
| Sparks
| That's a good place to start
| 00:10
|
| rudi
| sounds like a plan; and the wiki is the natural place for noms to go
| 00:10
|
| jjmcd
| Although, we could just agree to re-elect you by acclimation
| 00:10
|
| Sparks
| rudi: Works for me.
| 00:10
|
| Sparks
| I won't take the job unless someone else runs
| 00:11
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 00:11
|
| * Sparks votes for ---> that guy
| 00:11
|
| jjmcd
| And I won't run unless I can find a sucker ... errr ... leader for RNs
| 00:11
|
| Sparks
| We should probably figure out if we want to do this yearly or releasely or...
| 00:12
|
| jjmcd
| Personally, I could argue for either
| 00:12
|
| jjmcd
| Yearly gives somebody a chance to get established
| 00:12
|
| Sparks
| yes
| 00:12
|
| jjmcd
| releasely gives is a quicker way to get rid of a turkey
| 00:13
|
| bcotton
| i'd think releasely would be a bit hectic
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: I think you should be able to get rid of me... err... a turkey at any point
| 00:14
|
| * Sparks establishes https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections
| 00:14
|
| jjmcd
| So we need an impeachment process?
| 00:14
|
| Sparks
| WE DON'T LIKE YOU ANYMORE... GET OFF THE STAGE!
| 00:14
|
| * jjmcd prefers burning torches
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| Okay, I'll send out an email after the meeting
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| #action Sparks to send out email on nominations
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else on this topic?
| 00:15
|
| Sparks
| #topic Release Notes
| 00:16
|
| jjmcd
| You saw the notes to the list
| 00:16
|
| Sparks
| First I'd like to thank jjmcd and rudi and everyone else who helped in getting the Release Notes completed.
| 00:16
|
| Sparks
| You guys did an awesome job!
| 00:17
|
| Sparks
| Now if our technology could keep up... :)
| 00:17
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: What are the translation issues?
| 00:17
|
| rudi
| Ta -- there are still some bugs in the process, but we're getting better :)
| 00:17
|
| jjmcd
| They do look nice on the new F12 background - but that's all on mo
| 00:17
|
| jjmcd
| rudi is tracking them down, I think most are explainable
| 00:17
|
| jjmcd
| We do need to decide when to publish
| 00:18
|
| jjmcd
| and I like rudi's idea of moving in a direction of translators publishing, or at least deciding when
| 00:18
|
| jjmcd
| And OBTW, as translations are committed, the built docs ARE available
| 00:18
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: I'd like it if the translators would join us on these meetings... especially around release time
| 00:18
|
| jjmcd
| But without building themselves, translators have no view into the errors
| 00:19
|
| jjmcd
| Yes, noriko at least was joining us for a while
| 00:19
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: So we need to do a classroom on how to use Publican?
| 00:19
|
| jjmcd
| but they are spread out across timezones
| 00:19
|
| rudi
| Sparks -- no, the problem is more deep-seated
| 00:19
|
| jjmcd
| Well, it is a major PITA until the new TFX
| 00:19
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: True. Maybe the lead translator for each lang could join us... TZs make it tough
| 00:19
|
| rudi
| yeah; Tx 0.7 is the blocker
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| rudi: more deep-seated?
| 00:20
|
| rudi
| Until then, translators not only need to know how to use publican, but how to wrangle the merging and splitting as well
| 00:20
|
| jjmcd
| And that isn't always obvious
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| yes
| 00:20
|
| rudi
| and the "how to use Publican" is the least of their worries.
| 00:20
|
| Sparks
| it isn't obvious to me!
| 00:21
|
| rudi
| Even after all this time, *we* still bungle the merging and splitting
| 00:21
|
| jjmcd
| When everything is hunky-dory, we could script it. But things are rarely perfect
| 00:21
|
| rudi
| (which is the root of most of the English strings we're still seeing cropping up in the translations)
| 00:21
|
| jjmcd
| Yep, that was my suspicion
| 00:21
|
| rudi
| jjmcd -- yeah, confirmed. With yours truly being the chief bungler :)
| 00:22
|
| jjmcd
| I will remind docs and trans later where to find the nightly builds of f12zeroday-tx
| 00:22
|
| rudi
| But there are also some genuinely inexplicable ones, where strings we can see are definitely translated somehow don't get carried across the split...
| 00:23
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: When will the next batch ready to commit?
| 00:23
|
| rudi
| Sparks, jjmcd -- we need to make a decision about when and whether to refresh the POTs
| 00:23
|
| jjmcd
| rudi: yep. Sparks: Schedule says tomorrow, but I am poking L10N to ask if that makes sense
| 00:23
|
| rudi
| And we probably need some input from L10N on that
| 00:23
|
| jjmcd
| And with the latest flamebug, we may want to do that again real soon now
| 00:24
|
| Sparks
| ya
| 00:24
|
| rudi
| The refresh would pull in the latest fixes (from f12-temp), plus the flamebug, plus assorted small glitches that are breaking translations
| 00:24
|
| rudi
| jjmcd -- did you want to do this before or after packaging the RN?
| 00:25
|
| jjmcd
| I would also like to get something authoratative on processors. We have an outstanding bug that disagrees with other experts, and I don't know who to believe
| 00:25
|
| jjmcd
| rudi, we have a package in the DVD, and a more recent package on updates
| 00:25
|
| jjmcd
| We will want to do another probably for the install thing first en then maybe all langs
| 00:26
|
| rudi
| jjmcd -- Ah OK! so any update is not going to interfere with thath
| 00:26
|
| rudi
| * that
| 00:26
|
| jjmcd
| I don't think we want to wait that one for the translations
| 00:26
|
| jjmcd
| yeah, Sparks has been great on getting these things to the repos
| 00:26
|
| rudi
| OK -- so regenerate today?
| 00:26
|
| jjmcd
| sounds good to me
| 00:26
|
| jjmcd
| There is more manual than I would like in the packaging, but it isn't some huge deal
| 00:27
|
| jjmcd
| The real problem is waiting hours and hours to build all the langs
| 00:28
|
| jjmcd
| Well, mostly to merge
| 00:28
|
| jjmcd
| BTW, I saw you committed some merged pos
| 00:28
|
| jjmcd
| If we can keep up with that, it could be a real help
| 00:28
|
| rudi
| NP -- I'm trying to make sure that the master branch stays current and ready to build
| 00:29
|
| jjmcd
| good, I like that
| 00:29
|
| jjmcd
| http://fedora.is-sixsigma.com/F12beta/ - regenerated every night, from t12zeroday even tho it says beta
| 00:29
|
| rudi
| So -- the other question is -- do we wait till we have an answer on the arches before rebuilding?
| 00:29
|
| rudi
| *regenerating
| 00:30
|
| jjmcd
| I think we need to deal with the install policy immediately
| 00:30
|
| rudi
| We have text on the policy change ready to insert?
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| As much as I would like an answer on the other, I think all those guys are burning their cycles on BZ534047
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| No
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| Well, there is text
| 00:31
|
| jjmcd
| and widespread agreement it is wron
| 00:31
|
| rudi
| OK -- well, we need something definitive in the f12-temp branch ASAP
| 00:32
|
| rudi
| radsy -- are you in a position to write it up?
| 00:32
|
| jjmcd
| So, I will craft some weasel words that try to avoid the emotion, but we still need a definitive workaround
| 00:32
|
| rudi
| Yeah -- whether the change is good, bad, or ugly is not relevant to the RN
| 00:32
|
| jjmcd
| The fix posted by Seth isn't even available to most people
| 00:32
|
| rudi
| Just its effects and what to do if you don't like it for whatever reason
| 00:33
|
| jjmcd
| You gotta be a policykit developer to even have the tool
| 00:33
|
| jjmcd
| It is the what to do that is the problem
| 00:33
|
| jjmcd
| Not too hard to describe the change
| 00:34
|
| rudi
| OK
| 00:34
|
| jjmcd
| Does that become 5.2.1, or 4.1?
| 00:34
|
| rudi
| So where are we going to get that from?
| 00:34
|
| jjmcd
| Well, the bug thread hasn't slowed yet
| 00:35
|
| rudi
| I'd say 5.2.1, with a pointer in 4.1
| 00:35
|
| jjmcd
| Oh maybe it has. I couldn't get a word in edgewise earlier, but now it's been an hour since someone commented
| 00:35
|
| jjmcd
| On the bug, I'm sure the mailing list is still lively
| 00:36
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Would now be a good time to ask for a definitive answer on what needs to go in the RNs?
| 00:36
|
| jjmcd
| Or everyone got frustrated with the in-flight collisions on bugzilla
| 00:36
|
| jjmcd
| Ask where?
| 00:37
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: The more I think about it the more I think that PK should just be uninstalled on systems where users shouldn't be installing software... almost makes sense.
| 00:37
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: On the bug.
| 00:37
|
| jjmcd
| Seems like everyone has a horse in this race
| 00:37
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: you/we still need an answer
| 00:37
|
| jjmcd
| yep
| 00:37
|
| * Sparks got hit twice on the same post with a collision
| 00:37
|
| jjmcd
| And we need to test it
| 00:37
|
| jjmcd
| Much of what has been talked about doesn't work for ordinary mortals
| 00:38
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: I agree
| 00:38
|
| jjmcd
| What I think we are saying, rudi, is that we aren't ready for a full rebuild
| 00:39
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: Well... work up some text saying what PK does and that a solution is in the works
| 00:39
|
| jjmcd
| I'll post en-US as soon as we get an answer, and we can do the big thing tomorrow
| 00:39
|
| rudi
| yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
| 00:39
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: If you get the solution before you crash for the night then put it in...
| 00:39
|
| Sparks
| jjmcd: otherwise build it and let's do a push
| 00:39
|
| Sparks
| ok
| 00:40
|
| jjmcd
| Yeah, at least on docs.fp.o I can put a warning
| 00:40
|
| Sparks
| WORKSFORME
| 00:40
|
| Sparks
| Okay, anything else on the Release Notes?
| 00:42
|
| jjmcd
| rudi, any clue why the rev history is missing from the trans?
| 00:42
|
| rudi
| jjmcd -- yeah; I turned them off
| 00:43
|
| jjmcd
| Oh, OK
| 00:43
|
| rudi
| when I was building
| 00:43
|
| rudi
| the changes that you had to make for yelp caused them to blow up when I was building the translated versions
| 00:43
|
| jjmcd
| I had no theory about that, as long as there's an answer and it isn't a mystery
| 00:43
|
| rudi
| And, strapped for time, that seemed like the best solution
| 00:43
|
| jjmcd
| oooohhhh, I thought I kept the yelp changes out of git except for the table length
| 00:44
|
| rudi
| Yeah; no mystery
| 00:44
|
| rudi
| Hmmm.
| 00:44
|
| rudi
| So the "xyz changes (cont'd)" shouldn't be in there either?
| 00:45
|
| jjmcd
| I cut the max table size down some in the hopes it might help - didn't
| 00:45
|
| jjmcd
| Oh yeah, just the tables were shorter
| 00:45
|
| rudi
| Oh OK
| 00:45
|
| jjmcd
| I think I was limiting them to like 250 entries or something, shortened to 100
| 00:45
|
| jjmcd
| didn't help,.. but I also hoped they might help you build, too
| 00:46
|
| rudi
| Well, *something* helped me build
| 00:46
|
| rudi
| I was finally able to build them on my machine without having to SSH into ryanlerch's :)
| 00:46
|
| jjmcd
| Don't you love a good mystery
| 00:46
|
| Sparks
| Okay... Moving on...
| 00:49
|
| Sparks
| #topic Guide Status
| 00:49
|
| Sparks
| Anyone have any problems with their guide or want to talk about their guide?
| 00:49
|
| radsy
| i did lots of updates to the selinux user-guide yesterday, thanks to a BZ that slipped through the cracks of my memory
| 00:50
|
| radsy
| got it up in CVS overnight, it's fine now
| 00:50
|
| Sparks
| radsy: Cool!
| 00:50
|
| Sparks
| Anyone else?
| 00:51
|
| radsy
| basically the removal of setroubleshootd as a permanent daemon
| 00:51
|
| Sparks
| :)
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| #topic New Guides
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| Any new guides in the works?
| 00:52
|
| Sparks
| #topic Status on CC license rollout.
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| For those of you that didn't know...
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| We have officially changed over to the CC-BY-SA license!
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| All of these tasks are complete!
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| Thanks to everyone who made this possible... it was truly a team effort.
| 00:53
|
| Sparks
| #topic All other business
| 00:54
|
| Sparks
| And with six minutes left... does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
| 00:54
|
| radsy
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047 ? :)
| 00:55
|
| buggbot
| Bug 534047: high, low, ---, richard, ASSIGNED, All users get to install software on a machine they do not have the root password to
| 00:55
|
| radsy
| i'm starting to think we might want to wait for the dust to settle
| 00:55
|
| radsy
| security response team are trying to find out if it will be reverted
| 00:56
|
| radsy
| nobody knows it seems...
| 00:56
|
| Sparks
| radsy: IMHO we need to get the word out that right now the vulnerability exists.
| 00:56
|
| radsy
| your call
| 00:56
|
| Sparks
| if admins/owners don't know that there is a change then they are assuming that they are protected.
| 00:57
|
| Sparks
| but, of course, that is my opinion...
| 00:57
|
| radsy
| we do have a lot of hits on the RN right now, being so close after release
| 00:57
|
| Sparks
| Yeah
| 00:57
|
| radsy
| i guess it can't hurt, quick enough to pull if needed
| 00:58
|
| Sparks
| anyone have any thoughts on how Docs should handle the PK ordeal within the next 24-hours?
| 00:58
|
| Sparks
| I'm assuming that within 72-hours we'll know more and can stand down more.
| 00:58
|
| Sparks
| radsy: ya... we can get text up and down very quickly
| 00:58
|
| rudi
| Well, we could add a note about the *existence* of the issue right now
| 00:58
|
| Sparks
| rudi: Yeah, that's basically what I'm thinking right now
| 00:59
|
| rudi
| Even if we don't have a suggested fix
| 00:59
|
| rudi
| I kinda think that if there were a fix out there that most people could implement, we would have heard about it by now...
| 00:59
|
| radsy
| and mention it's still in contention
| 00:59
|
| rudi
| radsy +1
| 00:59
|
| Sparks
| yep
| 01:00
|
| Sparks
| Okay... it is the end of our hour. Anything else to discuss before we close?
| 01:00
|
| radsy
| nice timing :)
| 01:00
|
| Sparks
| Thanks everyone for coming tonight!
| 01:01
|
| Sparks
| #endmeeting
| 01:01
|
