| Sparks
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#startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
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00:02
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| zodbot
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Meeting started Thu Nov 19 00:02:20 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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00:02
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| zodbot
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Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
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00:02
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| Sparks
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#topic Roll Call
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00:02
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| * Sparks
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00:02
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| * radsy is here
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00:02
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| * rudi is here
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00:02
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| * bcotton is here
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00:02
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| * jjmcd .
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00:02
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| * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes
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00:04
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| Sparks
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Okay, let's get started
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00:08
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| Sparks
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#chair jjmcd
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00:08
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| zodbot
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Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd
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00:08
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| Sparks
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#topic Docs Project Leader Elections
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00:08
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| Sparks
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When I took this job back in January(?) I wanted to make sure that we had elections for a new leader after F12 got released.
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00:09
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| Sparks
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So here is my suggestion...
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00:09
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| Sparks
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We take nominations starting tonight and vote next week.
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00:09
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| Sparks
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Thoughts?
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00:09
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| jjmcd
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wikipage
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00:09
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| Sparks
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That's a good place to start
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00:10
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| rudi
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sounds like a plan; and the wiki is the natural place for noms to go
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00:10
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| jjmcd
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Although, we could just agree to re-elect you by acclimation
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00:10
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| Sparks
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rudi: Works for me.
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00:10
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| Sparks
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I won't take the job unless someone else runs
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00:11
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| Sparks
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:)
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00:11
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| * Sparks votes for ---> that guy
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00:11
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| jjmcd
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And I won't run unless I can find a sucker ... errr ... leader for RNs
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00:11
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| Sparks
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We should probably figure out if we want to do this yearly or releasely or...
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00:12
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| jjmcd
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Personally, I could argue for either
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00:12
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| jjmcd
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Yearly gives somebody a chance to get established
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00:12
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| Sparks
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yes
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00:12
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| jjmcd
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releasely gives is a quicker way to get rid of a turkey
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00:13
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| bcotton
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i'd think releasely would be a bit hectic
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00:14
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: I think you should be able to get rid of me... err... a turkey at any point
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00:14
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| * Sparks establishes https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections
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00:14
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| jjmcd
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So we need an impeachment process?
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00:14
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| Sparks
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WE DON'T LIKE YOU ANYMORE... GET OFF THE STAGE!
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00:14
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| * jjmcd prefers burning torches
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00:15
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| Sparks
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Okay, I'll send out an email after the meeting
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00:15
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| Sparks
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#action Sparks to send out email on nominations
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00:15
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| Sparks
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Okay, anything else on this topic?
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00:15
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| Sparks
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#topic Release Notes
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00:16
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| jjmcd
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You saw the notes to the list
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00:16
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| Sparks
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First I'd like to thank jjmcd and rudi and everyone else who helped in getting the Release Notes completed.
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00:16
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| Sparks
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You guys did an awesome job!
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00:17
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| Sparks
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Now if our technology could keep up... :)
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00:17
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: What are the translation issues?
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00:17
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| rudi
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Ta -- there are still some bugs in the process, but we're getting better :)
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00:17
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| jjmcd
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They do look nice on the new F12 background - but that's all on mo
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00:17
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| jjmcd
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rudi is tracking them down, I think most are explainable
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00:17
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| jjmcd
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We do need to decide when to publish
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00:18
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| jjmcd
|
and I like rudi's idea of moving in a direction of translators publishing, or at least deciding when
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00:18
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| jjmcd
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And OBTW, as translations are committed, the built docs ARE available
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00:18
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: I'd like it if the translators would join us on these meetings... especially around release time
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00:18
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| jjmcd
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But without building themselves, translators have no view into the errors
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00:19
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| jjmcd
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Yes, noriko at least was joining us for a while
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00:19
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: So we need to do a classroom on how to use Publican?
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00:19
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| jjmcd
|
but they are spread out across timezones
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00:19
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| rudi
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Sparks -- no, the problem is more deep-seated
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00:19
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| jjmcd
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Well, it is a major PITA until the new TFX
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00:19
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: True. Maybe the lead translator for each lang could join us... TZs make it tough
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00:19
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| rudi
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yeah; Tx 0.7 is the blocker
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00:20
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| Sparks
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rudi: more deep-seated?
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00:20
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| rudi
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Until then, translators not only need to know how to use publican, but how to wrangle the merging and splitting as well
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00:20
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| jjmcd
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And that isn't always obvious
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00:20
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| Sparks
|
yes
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00:20
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| rudi
|
and the "how to use Publican" is the least of their worries.
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00:20
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| Sparks
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it isn't obvious to me!
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00:21
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| rudi
|
Even after all this time, *we* still bungle the merging and splitting
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00:21
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| jjmcd
|
When everything is hunky-dory, we could script it. But things are rarely perfect
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00:21
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| rudi
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(which is the root of most of the English strings we're still seeing cropping up in the translations)
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00:21
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| jjmcd
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Yep, that was my suspicion
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00:21
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| rudi
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jjmcd -- yeah, confirmed. With yours truly being the chief bungler :)
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00:22
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| jjmcd
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I will remind docs and trans later where to find the nightly builds of f12zeroday-tx
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00:22
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| rudi
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But there are also some genuinely inexplicable ones, where strings we can see are definitely translated somehow don't get carried across the split...
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00:23
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: When will the next batch ready to commit?
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00:23
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| rudi
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Sparks, jjmcd -- we need to make a decision about when and whether to refresh the POTs
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00:23
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| jjmcd
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rudi: yep. Sparks: Schedule says tomorrow, but I am poking L10N to ask if that makes sense
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00:23
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| rudi
|
And we probably need some input from L10N on that
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00:23
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| jjmcd
|
And with the latest flamebug, we may want to do that again real soon now
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00:24
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| Sparks
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ya
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00:24
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| rudi
|
The refresh would pull in the latest fixes (from f12-temp), plus the flamebug, plus assorted small glitches that are breaking translations
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00:24
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| rudi
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jjmcd -- did you want to do this before or after packaging the RN?
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00:25
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| jjmcd
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I would also like to get something authoratative on processors. We have an outstanding bug that disagrees with other experts, and I don't know who to believe
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00:25
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| jjmcd
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rudi, we have a package in the DVD, and a more recent package on updates
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00:25
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| jjmcd
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We will want to do another probably for the install thing first en then maybe all langs
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00:26
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| rudi
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jjmcd -- Ah OK! so any update is not going to interfere with thath
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00:26
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| rudi
|
* that
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00:26
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| jjmcd
|
I don't think we want to wait that one for the translations
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00:26
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| jjmcd
|
yeah, Sparks has been great on getting these things to the repos
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00:26
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| rudi
|
OK -- so regenerate today?
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00:26
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| jjmcd
|
sounds good to me
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00:26
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| jjmcd
|
There is more manual than I would like in the packaging, but it isn't some huge deal
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00:27
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| jjmcd
|
The real problem is waiting hours and hours to build all the langs
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00:28
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| jjmcd
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Well, mostly to merge
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00:28
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| jjmcd
|
BTW, I saw you committed some merged pos
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00:28
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| jjmcd
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If we can keep up with that, it could be a real help
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00:28
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| rudi
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NP -- I'm trying to make sure that the master branch stays current and ready to build
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00:29
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| jjmcd
|
good, I like that
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00:29
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| jjmcd
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http://fedora.is-sixsigma.com/F12beta/ - regenerated every night, from t12zeroday even tho it says beta
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00:29
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| rudi
|
So -- the other question is -- do we wait till we have an answer on the arches before rebuilding?
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00:29
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| rudi
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*regenerating
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00:30
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| jjmcd
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I think we need to deal with the install policy immediately
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00:30
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| rudi
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We have text on the policy change ready to insert?
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00:31
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| jjmcd
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As much as I would like an answer on the other, I think all those guys are burning their cycles on BZ534047
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00:31
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| jjmcd
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No
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00:31
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| jjmcd
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Well, there is text
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00:31
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| jjmcd
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and widespread agreement it is wron
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00:31
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| rudi
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OK -- well, we need something definitive in the f12-temp branch ASAP
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00:32
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| rudi
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radsy -- are you in a position to write it up?
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00:32
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| jjmcd
|
So, I will craft some weasel words that try to avoid the emotion, but we still need a definitive workaround
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00:32
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| rudi
|
Yeah -- whether the change is good, bad, or ugly is not relevant to the RN
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00:32
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| jjmcd
|
The fix posted by Seth isn't even available to most people
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00:32
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| rudi
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Just its effects and what to do if you don't like it for whatever reason
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00:33
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| jjmcd
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You gotta be a policykit developer to even have the tool
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00:33
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| jjmcd
|
It is the what to do that is the problem
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00:33
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| jjmcd
|
Not too hard to describe the change
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00:34
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| rudi
|
OK
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00:34
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| jjmcd
|
Does that become 5.2.1, or 4.1?
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00:34
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| rudi
|
So where are we going to get that from?
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00:34
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| jjmcd
|
Well, the bug thread hasn't slowed yet
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00:35
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| rudi
|
I'd say 5.2.1, with a pointer in 4.1
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00:35
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| jjmcd
|
Oh maybe it has. I couldn't get a word in edgewise earlier, but now it's been an hour since someone commented
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00:35
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| jjmcd
|
On the bug, I'm sure the mailing list is still lively
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00:36
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: Would now be a good time to ask for a definitive answer on what needs to go in the RNs?
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00:36
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| jjmcd
|
Or everyone got frustrated with the in-flight collisions on bugzilla
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00:36
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| jjmcd
|
Ask where?
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00:37
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: The more I think about it the more I think that PK should just be uninstalled on systems where users shouldn't be installing software... almost makes sense.
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00:37
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: On the bug.
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00:37
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| jjmcd
|
Seems like everyone has a horse in this race
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00:37
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| Sparks
|
jjmcd: you/we still need an answer
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00:37
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| jjmcd
|
yep
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00:37
|
| * Sparks got hit twice on the same post with a collision
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00:37
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| jjmcd
|
And we need to test it
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00:37
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| jjmcd
|
Much of what has been talked about doesn't work for ordinary mortals
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00:38
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| Sparks
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jjmcd: I agree
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00:38
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| jjmcd
|
What I think we are saying, rudi, is that we aren't ready for a full rebuild
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00:39
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| Sparks
|
jjmcd: Well... work up some text saying what PK does and that a solution is in the works
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00:39
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| jjmcd
|
I'll post en-US as soon as we get an answer, and we can do the big thing tomorrow
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00:39
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| rudi
|
yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
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00:39
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| Sparks
|
jjmcd: If you get the solution before you crash for the night then put it in...
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00:39
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| Sparks
|
jjmcd: otherwise build it and let's do a push
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00:39
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| Sparks
|
ok
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00:40
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| jjmcd
|
Yeah, at least on docs.fp.o I can put a warning
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00:40
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| Sparks
|
WORKSFORME
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00:40
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| Sparks
|
Okay, anything else on the Release Notes?
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00:42
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| jjmcd
|
rudi, any clue why the rev history is missing from the trans?
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00:42
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| rudi
|
jjmcd -- yeah; I turned them off
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00:43
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| jjmcd
|
Oh, OK
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00:43
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| rudi
|
when I was building
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00:43
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| rudi
|
the changes that you had to make for yelp caused them to blow up when I was building the translated versions
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00:43
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| jjmcd
|
I had no theory about that, as long as there's an answer and it isn't a mystery
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00:43
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| rudi
|
And, strapped for time, that seemed like the best solution
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00:43
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| jjmcd
|
oooohhhh, I thought I kept the yelp changes out of git except for the table length
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00:44
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| rudi
|
Yeah; no mystery
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00:44
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| rudi
|
Hmmm.
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00:44
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| rudi
|
So the "xyz changes (cont'd)" shouldn't be in there either?
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00:45
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| jjmcd
|
I cut the max table size down some in the hopes it might help - didn't
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00:45
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| jjmcd
|
Oh yeah, just the tables were shorter
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00:45
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| rudi
|
Oh OK
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00:45
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| jjmcd
|
I think I was limiting them to like 250 entries or something, shortened to 100
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00:45
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| jjmcd
|
didn't help,.. but I also hoped they might help you build, too
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00:46
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| rudi
|
Well, *something* helped me build
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00:46
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| rudi
|
I was finally able to build them on my machine without having to SSH into ryanlerch's :)
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00:46
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| jjmcd
|
Don't you love a good mystery
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00:46
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| Sparks
|
Okay... Moving on...
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00:49
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Guide Status
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00:49
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| Sparks
|
Anyone have any problems with their guide or want to talk about their guide?
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00:49
|
| radsy
|
i did lots of updates to the selinux user-guide yesterday, thanks to a BZ that slipped through the cracks of my memory
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00:50
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| radsy
|
got it up in CVS overnight, it's fine now
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00:50
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| Sparks
|
radsy: Cool!
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00:50
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| Sparks
|
Anyone else?
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00:51
|
| radsy
|
basically the removal of setroubleshootd as a permanent daemon
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00:51
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| Sparks
|
:)
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00:52
|
| Sparks
|
#topic New Guides
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00:52
|
| Sparks
|
Any new guides in the works?
|
00:52
|
| Sparks
|
#topic Status on CC license rollout.
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00:53
|
| Sparks
|
For those of you that didn't know...
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00:53
|
| Sparks
|
We have officially changed over to the CC-BY-SA license!
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00:53
|
| Sparks
|
All of these tasks are complete!
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00:53
|
| Sparks
|
Thanks to everyone who made this possible... it was truly a team effort.
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00:53
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| Sparks
|
#topic All other business
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00:54
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| Sparks
|
And with six minutes left... does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
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00:54
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| radsy
|
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=534047 ? :)
|
00:55
|
| buggbot
|
Bug 534047: high, low, ---, richard, ASSIGNED, All users get to install software on a machine they do not have the root password to
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00:55
|
| radsy
|
i'm starting to think we might want to wait for the dust to settle
|
00:55
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| radsy
|
security response team are trying to find out if it will be reverted
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00:56
|
| radsy
|
nobody knows it seems...
|
00:56
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| Sparks
|
radsy: IMHO we need to get the word out that right now the vulnerability exists.
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00:56
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| radsy
|
your call
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00:56
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| Sparks
|
if admins/owners don't know that there is a change then they are assuming that they are protected.
|
00:57
|
| Sparks
|
but, of course, that is my opinion...
|
00:57
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| radsy
|
we do have a lot of hits on the RN right now, being so close after release
|
00:57
|
| Sparks
|
Yeah
|
00:57
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| radsy
|
i guess it can't hurt, quick enough to pull if needed
|
00:58
|
| Sparks
|
anyone have any thoughts on how Docs should handle the PK ordeal within the next 24-hours?
|
00:58
|
| Sparks
|
I'm assuming that within 72-hours we'll know more and can stand down more.
|
00:58
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| Sparks
|
radsy: ya... we can get text up and down very quickly
|
00:58
|
| rudi
|
Well, we could add a note about the *existence* of the issue right now
|
00:58
|
| Sparks
|
rudi: Yeah, that's basically what I'm thinking right now
|
00:59
|
| rudi
|
Even if we don't have a suggested fix
|
00:59
|
| rudi
|
I kinda think that if there were a fix out there that most people could implement, we would have heard about it by now...
|
00:59
|
| radsy
|
and mention it's still in contention
|
00:59
|
| rudi
|
radsy +1
|
00:59
|
| Sparks
|
yep
|
01:00
|
| Sparks
|
Okay... it is the end of our hour. Anything else to discuss before we close?
|
01:00
|
| radsy
|
nice timing :)
|
01:00
|
| Sparks
|
Thanks everyone for coming tonight!
|
01:01
|
| Sparks
|
#endmeeting
|
01:01
|
