Meeting:Websites IRC log 20080908

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quaid <meeting id="Websites weekly"> 13:01
quaid anyone around besides us usual suspects? 13:01
quaid roll call 13:01
* quaid has a feeling about this ... 13:02
-!- sdziallas [n=sebastia@p57A2F8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:03
-!- ValHolla [i=0c29727e@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-872263e9ce25aae0] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:03
* ianweller clocks in 13:04
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quaid ok, I'm moving back to my office, I'll be afk for a moment 13:05
ianweller ok. 13:05
quaid then I've got edits on Websites/Tasks 13:05
* ianweller sits in the meeting room, alooooooone 13:05
quaid if nothing is going on, I'll just do improvements there :) 13:05
quaid ianweller: did you catch the chat Mike and I had about MediaWiki (lack of) URL rewrites? 13:06
quaid that the URL stays the same after a #REDIRECT, which is confusing 13:06
quaid mike checked in #mediawiki and it sounds as if it's not built in 13:06
quaid so maybe we want to consider a plugin? 13:06
ianweller yeah that's how mediawiki works, for some reason. 13:07
ianweller it's in internal redirect, but the url stays the same. 13:07
* ianweller hates having to use multiple plugins for random things, but if it's something we need vitally, it can be done, i'm sure 13:07
* quaid is back 13:10
ianweller is it just us? 13:11
quaid maybe we can find out why it's that way 13:11
quaid hmm, just us 13:12
quaid I presumed I wasn't the only one who found it confusing when the page redirected but showed the old URL 13:12
ianweller *theoretically* something could be written that throws a header('Redirect: blah') thing. 13:12
quaid I reckon it happens on wikipedia? 13:12
ianweller yeah that's semi-annoying 13:12
ianweller yes it does. 13:13
ianweller it might be to cut down on actual HTTP requests 13:13
ianweller *however* one might be able to do a RewriteMap. 13:14
ianweller with a php script that accesses the DB, and if there is a need for a redirect, it returns the proper URL 13:14
quaid can you find out why MW proper does it the default way? 13:16
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quaid maybe it's just a patch we offer 13:16
ianweller i know that MW will send a http redirect if there's not underscores in the article name where spaces are supposed to be. 13:17
quaid hmm 13:17
quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ServerTestPage is the one that got me started this morning 13:17
ianweller gah, DNS is slow here 13:17
ianweller quaid: yeah. that one always bothers me 13:17
ianweller http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Redirect#Why_do_redirects_duplicate_pages_rather_than_using_HTTP_3xx_codes.3F 13:18
* ricky must go for a while. 13:18
ianweller i have no clue what Patrick is saying 13:18
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ianweller ricky: ok bye 13:18
quaid hmm 13:19
quaid does he mean the text _before_ the #REDIRECT,which, iirc, shows up on the page before the redirect occurs? 13:19
* ianweller tests. 13:19
ianweller that makes no sense, fyi 13:20
ianweller to me 13:20
ianweller if that does occur i don't think it should ;) 13:20
quaid just trying to figure out what he is preserving 13:20
ianweller i would assume nothing is actually being preserved, or would need to be preserved 13:21
ianweller https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/redirect_test doesn't work 13:21
quaid oh right 13:22
quaid if you put text after, it's preserved 13:22
quaid but not displayed 13:22
quaid maybe that is the goal? 13:22
* ianweller tests. 13:22
ianweller now that's weir.d 13:22
ianweller so there doesn't appear to be any reason to not send a 3xx code 13:23
ianweller i mean, i wouldn't say "moved permanantly", but... something that says "hai i'm over here." 13:23
quaid do you think it's the text after the redirect call that Patrick is referring to? 13:23
ianweller in all truth, i have no clue what patrick is referring to 13:24
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quaid well, I _could_ see the preservation of something after redirect as useful 13:25
quaid but just having the MW link with "redirect=no" appear on the page is helpful 13:25
ianweller well, yeah, i guess that's the issue 13:26
ianweller if you 302 it it won't display the (redirected from Whatever) thing 13:26
quaid ah! 13:26
ianweller so if we write a patch to make it 302 but *still* display the redirection notice, we'd be in business. 13:27
quaid ooh, yeah 13:27
ianweller possibly using the Referer: header 13:27
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quaid ok, so about this meeting ... 13:28
quaid I reckon this is it; I'll get this on the task list, which I'm tablizing 13:28
quaid but no one feel they need to stick around for this :) 13:29
* ianweller doesn't have anything on there, iirc 13:29
* ianweller searches the mediawiki bugzilla for this 13:30
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ianweller i saw nothing in bz. 13:38
-!- gvarisco\brno is now known as gvarisco 13:38
quaid odd 13:39
quaid it is weird to me when some tool doesn't do something that seems like the basics of infosec or info assurance, and no one else thought of it before little ol' me 13:40
ianweller did you ask anyone in irc about it? 13:40
quaid mmcgrath asked on #mediawiki 13:41
ianweller what was the answer again? 13:41
ianweller GAAHHHHHHH why does dns suck at the library today 13:41
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quaid 09:36 < mmcgrath> quaid: ok, so it seems according to someone in #mediawiki there's no native way to do that. I'd like to talk to ianweller_afk and see what he thinks. There might be come clever tool or something we could use that I don't know about. 13:42
quaid that was it 13:43
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ianweller oh. ok. 13:44
ianweller well maybe it's a good idea to open a bug on their bz 13:44
ianweller of course, thta would mean we'd have to get rid of ACLs fast and upgrade our mediawiki setup ;) 13:44
ianweller that's the path i'd take, at least. your thoughts? 13:44
quaid that sounds like a good idea 13:45
quaid we can always work the fix in a test instance 13:45
quaid as for upgrading the WM and ACLs ... 13:45
ianweller heh. 13:45
ianweller a different story 13:45
quaid I need to extract Spot's needs and see if we can get those met 13:45
quaid he sort of wants (cake + eat it) 13:45
spot no, not really 13:45
spot i sort of want "don't make my life suck more" 13:46
ianweller can you do it with a second mediawiki instance? 13:46
ianweller say, at fp.o/packaging 13:46
ianweller with only a certain group in FAS having editing ability? 13:46
* ianweller wonders if that's implementable 13:46
spot ianweller: sure. that would be fine. 13:46
ianweller mmcgrath: does that sound like a sane thing to do? ^^^^^ 13:47
ianweller spot: it's just packaging and legal, right? 13:47
ianweller i haven't seen the ACL list lately 13:47
spot thats all I need ACLs on... 13:47
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quaid https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks updated 13:48
quaid spot: sorry, that didn't come out right 13:48
quaid  :) 13:48
ianweller quaid: thanks for updating tasks 13:48
quaid the only other idea I had almost but not quite works 13:48
ianweller oh goody, i was assigned something! 13:49
quaid which was to remove the ACLS and move the canonical, then use the wiki as 'source' 13:49
quaid but that leaves the source editable by anyone. 13:49
quaid the key was to not break the packaging team and spot's workflow in using the wiki to collaborate 13:49
spot i bet you can guess what i think about that one... ;) 13:49
quaid to be honest, any good CMS should be a _better_ editing solution 13:49
spot quaid: i need some sort of simple web editing tool to make changes to the ACL restricted data 13:50
quaid spot: +1 13:50
spot it doesn't need to be what we have now, or even understand the old wiki format 13:50
ianweller spot: how much do you like mediawiki's syntax, in comparison to, oh, trac 13:50
ianweller or HTML 13:50
quaid spot: a CMS by it's nature is ACL'd, and our "must" list includes "wysiwyg editor" 13:50
quaid or as-good-as 13:51
ianweller oh well never mind then :P 13:51
spot quaid: then it sounds like you should have my needs covered when you get the CMS up. :) 13:51
quaid cool :) 13:51
ianweller what's the time table on that again? 13:51
quaid I'll make sure you all get to see the test 13:51
ianweller pre-F10? 13:51
quaid ianweller: yesterday! 13:51
spot i just dont want to have to learn something like, say, docbook. 13:51
quaid ianweller: just for docs.fp.o 13:51
quaid spot: oh lord no 13:51
ianweller  :-o 13:51
* ianweller spits on the library's DNS 13:51
quaid spot: I _do_ think it is time to write a Fedora Packaging Guide, but the source can continue to be wiki-based, as we do for the release notes and many other guides 13:52
quaid ianweller: someone tunneling YouTube.com:80 over DNS port? 13:52
ianweller apparently 13:52
* spot goes back to licensing fixes 13:52
ianweller or, the tech people are just being dumb. 13:52
quaid thx spot 13:52
ianweller quaid: what do you mean by yesterday, it already happened, or it should have been done yesterdeay ;) 13:53
ianweller ack spelling 13:53
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quaid ok, so I'm going to officially call a close to this not-quite-a-meeting that actually accomplished stuff :) 13:53
* stickster laughs 13:53
quaid ianweller: just that I put an aggressive schedule on it, so it's already "behind" :) 13:53
ianweller ok. 13:53
ianweller well, that's why i don't put aggressive schedules on things ;) 13:53
quaid but that was on purpose, room to slip, keep the heat on, etc. 13:53
ianweller not yet, at least 13:53
stickster For a Perl expert like Spot, DocBook would be like reading "See Jimmy Run" 13:53
LyosNorezel ianweller: you could 'fix' it for them ;-) 13:53
quaid setup your own DHCP + DNS server and compete? 13:54
spot stickster: there are so many languages in my brain already, one more might cause me to lose something useful... like say, bowel control. 13:54
stickster spot: eeew. 13:54
quaid $brain . o O { Perl, XML, whoops, lost something ... ewww } 13:55
LyosNorezel ROFLMFAO 13:55
quaid ok, closing so I have something to send 13:55
quaid no mas? 13:56
quaid 10 13:56
quaid 5 13:56
quaid 4 13:56
quaid 3 13:56
quaid 2 13:56
quaid 1 13:56
quaid </meeting> 13:56

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