QA/Meetings/20071213

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wwoodsTime for the Fedora QA meeting. Whee!<a href="#t10:00" class="time">10:00</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | startup<a href="#t10:01" class="time">10:01</a>
wwoodsf13 Lovechild mether rdieter nirik: ping<a href="#t10:03" class="time">10:03</a>
rdieteryo<a href="#t10:04" class="time">10:04</a>
wwoodshowdy.<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsso I don't have anything pressing on the agenda<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsf13: what was it we were going to discuss?<a href="#t10:05" class="time">10:05</a>
wwoodsanyway. first, tools stuff<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | tools<a href="#t10:06" class="time">10:06</a>
wwoodsjlaska has been packaging up SNAKE (<a href="http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake">http://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/snake</a>) and working on the docs and such<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoodsI've submitted python-bugzilla for review, and it was just approved, so that'll also be available shortly<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoods(<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/python-bugzilla</a>)<a href="#t10:07" class="time">10:07</a>
wwoodsthose two packages are used by the rawhide dashboard page (<a href="http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,">http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/rawhide.html,</a> probably moving soon)<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodsbut soon we should have at least *some* automagic testing of rawhide trees<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodsyay for that!<a href="#t10:08" class="time">10:08</a>
wwoodsOh. Bug triage sucks - and will continue to suck unless we have better tools and a point system or something to help motivate people<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
wwoodsbut I've been talking with ldimaggi_ for a while about QA stuff<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
ldimaggi_wwoods, Good Morning everyone!<a href="#t10:10" class="time">10:10</a>
ldimaggi_glad to be here...<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodsright now my opinion is that making sure rawhide / updates are solid is more valuable<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodsthan making triage easier/funner. once a bug is filed, it's already out the door<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodsit'd be better to keep a lot of bugs from getting out the door first<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodswhich will make triaging easier<a href="#t10:11" class="time">10:11</a>
wwoodsso, some fairly simple automated testing is in order for fedora updates and rawhide<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
wwoodsso that's what I'm working on.<a href="#t10:12" class="time">10:12</a>
poelcatwwoods: what kind of tools are you thinking would make triage better?<a href="#t10:13" class="time">10:13</a>
wwoodswell, infrastructure stuff to keep track of who's doing what, who's doing a good job. scorekeeping stuff to make things interesting<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoods(and let us give credit to the best of the bug triagers)<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
poelcatwwoods: could borrow such things from another project?<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoodsIt'd be nice to have a client-side tool that talked to bugzilla/bodhi/koji/pkgdb<a href="#t10:14" class="time">10:14</a>
wwoodspoelcat: depends on how we want it implemented<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodsat this point we *can* use the GNOME stuff if we're willing to put scripts on BZ itself<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoods(previously we couldn't use their pointkeeping system 'cuz it used mysql-specific stuff)<a href="#t10:15" class="time">10:15</a>
wwoodsI'd probably want to clean it up so it's a nice modular plugin (and was easier to configure weights for various actions)<a href="#t10:17" class="time">10:17</a>
wwoodsand have it able to send data elsewhere, so if we do similar scorekeeping in bodhi/koji/etc we can gather all that data in one central place<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsbut, again, that's stuff I want to do *after* getting some smoketesting in place<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsunless I find someone who's willing to spearhead the effort themselves<a href="#t10:18" class="time">10:18</a>
wwoodsbut yes - scorekeeping and a cool gtk-based bug searching/triaging app<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoodswould be awesome.<a href="#t10:19" class="time">10:19</a>
wwoodsanyway, there was something about bugzilla policy that f13 wanted to discuss, but I don't think he's here<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
wwoodsso that discussion will be moved to -test-list (and/or -devel-list)<a href="#t10:20" class="time">10:20</a>
-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc.<a href="#t10:21" class="time">10:21</a>
wwoodsoh, one other thing. I'm seeing more and more audio bugs where the suggested solution is "remove pulseaudio"<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoodswhich kinda sucks.<a href="#t10:22" class="time">10:22</a>
wwoodsIn theory, PA improvements were on the schedule for F9 to better integrate it with the system<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
rdieterin fairness, it's a temporary workaround oftentimes, but the fundamental issues should still be addressed.<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoodsright<a href="#t10:23" class="time">10:23</a>
wwoodsAll people *really* need to do is remove alsa-plugins-pulseaudio and PA will magically stop being the default.<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoodsbut we have to keep an eye out for bugs about this junk and make sure Lennart addresses the big ones<a href="#t10:24" class="time">10:24</a>
wwoodsrdieter: how's KDE4 stuff going?<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
rdieterwwoods: rawhide import is pretty much done.<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
rdieterwwoods: now we need to actually start using it, and testing it out, polishing, etc...<a href="#t10:26" class="time">10:26</a>
wwoodsright on. good to hear!<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
rdieterand dealing with a few pkgs here and there that still contain kde(3) deps, that are now awol. :)<a href="#t10:27" class="time">10:27</a>
wwoodsAre there likely to be any features in F9 that will change major desktop behaviors (like PA did) that we need to keep an eye out for?<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoodsI have a feeling PolicyKit could prove slightly disruptive for non-GNOME/KDE envs<a href="#t10:28" class="time">10:28</a>
wwoodsanyway, that's something to keep in the backs of your heads<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
wwoodsthat's all. Any other business to discuss?<a href="#t10:29" class="time">10:29</a>
rdieterwwoods: I forget, is another "bug day" coming soon?<a href="#t10:31" class="time">10:31</a>
wwoodsThere isn't one planned right now<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
rdieterok<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoodsI was kind of disheartened - spent an entire 8-hour day working on it and I closed maybe 10 bugs<a href="#t10:32" class="time">10:32</a>
wwoodsand got into some fierce arguments<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
rdieterhee, if it makes you feel better, a closed a whole load of old kde ones...<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoodsthat's good!<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
wwoodsRight now I'm not convinced that Bug Days are a good use of my time.<a href="#t10:33" class="time">10:33</a>
rdieterif more folks don't show up to participate, you're prob right<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoodswith more people (and once we've got some smoketest stuff going to catch the obvious stuff earlier) it would probably be very useful<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoodsbut I think we have bigger problems<a href="#t10:35" class="time">10:35</a>
wwoodslike broken rawhide and broken updates<a href="#t10:36" class="time">10:36</a>
wwoodsif someone would like to plan a Bug Day, or wants to request a Bug Day to help triage a particular set of bugs<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodsI'd be totally behind that<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
jeremywwoods: I'm hoping to have a live image for testing a few installer related things by the first of next week<a href="#t10:37" class="time">10:37</a>
wwoodsoh nice.<a href="#t10:38" class="time">10:38</a>
wwoodssomeday we need to figure out a good way of running automated tests on newly-produced live images<a href="#t10:39" class="time">10:39</a>
wwoodskvm's probably the easiest way though<a href="#t10:40" class="time">10:40</a>
jeremyyou could pretty easily do boot it, get a screenshot to make sure the desktop came up<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
jeremymore than that becomes tricky<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoodspossibly we'll want some way of injecting commands from the boot line, like kickstart<a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoodsrunscript=[url] <a href="#t10:41" class="time">10:41</a>
wwoodsor similar<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
jeremyhow do you plan on injecting commands into the bootloader, though?<a href="#t10:42" class="time">10:42</a>
wwoodspull the kernel/initrd/squashfs off the image and boot it from system GRUB?<a href="#t10:43" class="time">10:43</a>
jeremyyou've now managed to avoid testing a lot of the livecd specific bits<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodstrue. :/<a href="#t10:44" class="time">10:44</a>
wwoodswell, somethin' to think about. I don't have an answer right now.<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodslet me know when you've got images, though<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
wwoodseveryone loves a livecd<a href="#t10:45" class="time">10:45</a>
jeremywell, live-just-more-than-a-cd right now, but yeah<a href="#t10:46" class="time">10:46</a>
wwoodsliveimage<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
jeremy(some stupid deps have appeared... filed bugs last week about them)<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoodslivethingy<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
* rdieter likes livethingy<a href="#t10:47" class="time">10:47</a>
wwoodslivecd, livedvd, liveusb, liveipod.. nah. just call it "livethingy"<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoodsokay, anything else?<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
jeremyliveipod is hard -- current ones are 2048 byte sectors which our bootloaders don't deal with<a href="#t10:48" class="time">10:48</a>
wwoodsreally? bogus.<a href="#t10:49" class="time">10:49</a>
wwoodsstupid PC BIOSes caring about "sectors"<a href="#t10:50" class="time">10:50</a>
wwoodsokay, let's call this done. Thanks for your time, folks.<a href="#t10:51" class="time">10:51</a>

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