QA/Meetings/20080305

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Meeting Summary

  • Review of last weeks items
  • some installer test discussion
  • changes in anaconda
  • changes in testing plan for Beta
  • discussion of forming a Release Test Team

Action Items

  • New
  •  ?
  • Existing
  • wooods - talk to quaid about summer of code test reporting project
  • atodorov - status check-in on a dogtail test that uses anaconda .glade files (wasn't formal ... but may be good for a check-in next week)
  • Completed
  • wwoods - begin stubbing out interoperability (dual-boot) test cases in F9 Install Test Plan
  • jlaska - update TreeTestingTemplate to line up with Test Plan
  • poelstra - add F9Install test plan link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/HowToTest

IRC Log

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<tr id="t10:01:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: pong. meeting time!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:01:52" class="time">10:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:02:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| wwoods: yay, what's the plan today?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:02:16" class="time">10:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:02:52"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA meeting | Followup from previous meetings</td><td><a href="#t10:02:52" class="time">10:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:02:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| first that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:02:54" class="time">10:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:03:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| then.. some installer test discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:03:22" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:03:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| 1) changes in anaconda</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:03:29" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:03:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| 2) changes in testing plan for Beta</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:03:38" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:03:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| 3) discussion of forming a Release Test Team</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:03:50" class="time">10:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:04:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| well, a Fedora RTT</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:04:15" class="time">10:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: any notes from previous meetings that need discussion?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:05:53" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:05:56"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | wwoods checking his notes</td><td><a href="#t10:05:56" class="time">10:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| wwoods: the last notes I have are from our last formal meeting ... (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20080206">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20080206</a>)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07:04" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:07:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| woo, that was a while ago</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:07:36" class="time">10:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:08:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah I don't really have anything to report back on</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08:11" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:08:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| oh, are you logging this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:08:25" class="time">10:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:09:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| I'll log it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:09:24" class="time">10:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:10:26"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jlaska waits for wiki ...</td><td><a href="#t10:10:26" class="time">10:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so the only thing from last week that's worth discussing is</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:05" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I haven't had time to work on snake->kvm installs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:15" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:16"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | f13 is here</td><td><a href="#t10:11:16" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but! rawhide is installable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:21" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:26" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| shouldn't blow up with mkinitrd</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:32" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| some things are still horkey though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:33" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| "installable" [1] </td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:33" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:35" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| *and* has stage2=XXX support</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:37" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I would really like to have my ability to select text back.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:51" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| (which is interesting from a tester perspective and important for PreUpgrade)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:11:54" class="time">10:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12:27" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12:39"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Anaconda changes in F9Beta</td><td><a href="#t10:12:39" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:12:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| more good news: rescueCD supports encrypted devices now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:12:57" class="time">10:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:13:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| here are the interesting changes:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13:42" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:13:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| 1) no more boot.iso or diskboot.img</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:13:47" class="time">10:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| they've been replaced with.. netinst.iso? I think that's the name</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14:22" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:14:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| which is, basically, the rescuecd (with a different name to give people a better idea what it's for)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:14:46" class="time">10:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| pxeboot images are still there, so SNAKE still works</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15:13" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so the two recommended methods for installing rawhide are:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15:23" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| - use SNAKE</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15:27" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:15:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| - use netinst.iso</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:15:32" class="time">10:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| (I *think* I'm comfortable recommending that people use SNAKE.. jlaska?)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16:13" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| worksforme :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16:24" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| it's by no means complete ... but it gets the job done </td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16:31" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| some more needed changes on tap for 0.11 ... but 0.10 should be fine for folks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:16:49" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:16:52"><td class="part" colspan="2"><-- | rahul_b has quit ("Leaving(पुन्हा भेटू)")</td><td><a href="#t10:16:52" class="time">10:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| esp. for the very simple case: "I already have Fedora on this machine and want to upgrade"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17:09" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| there's also PreUpgrade for that, actually</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17:26" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:17:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but it's not available yet, so..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:17:39" class="time">10:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but yeah, people will ask "huh whuh where'd boot.iso go"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:13" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but booting boot.iso means you still have to download stage2 from the internets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:26" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| on the plus side, the netinst.iso is useful for more than just today's tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:32" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| also that!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:42" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| so if you have netinst.iso from yesterday, and no images show up today, you can still use yesterday's to install today's tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:47" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:18:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| netinst.iso really is the minimum you need to actually perform an install</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:18:52" class="time">10:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| it's a lot more useful than boot.iso</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19:02" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| definitely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19:07" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:19:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we really need to see about, y'know, retaining old boot images if buildinstall fails</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:19:41" class="time">10:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| herm.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:10" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| or think about something along those lines</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:18" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| f13: do we have space to keep versioned trees? (e.g. development/20080303, development/20080304) ..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:20" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| wwoods: for that to be useful, they'd have to work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:22" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jlaska: I'd rather not keep versioned trees</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:33" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jlaska: not on the mirrors.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:37" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| dwmw2: until we have a simple algorithm for detecting works/doesn't work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:52" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| I think we can cook up something in our rsync calls to avoid removing images/ though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:54" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:20:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we'll have to rely on present/not present</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:20:57" class="time">10:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| f13: the pisser is the trees change out from under us ... and there's no retention of a usable tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| I saw another complaint yesterday that there's no progress bar while downloading stage2 from the internets</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:05" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| works > present > missing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:06" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jlaska: that's why we keep more than one internally where there is more space to be had</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:23" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| dwmw2: answer: stop downloading stage2 from the internets, sucka</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:26" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:27" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| wwoods: heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:32" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| jlaska: we currently may not even have enough space to host the Fedora 9 release on the master mirror.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:36" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: we've got space for that internally</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:55" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:21:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| wwoods: works > present > missing > present-but-KNOWN-not-to-work</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:21:57" class="time">10:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| there's also daily trees in koji</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22:03" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| not gonna happen on the mirrors though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22:12" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| don't we _know_ that today's stage1 won't work with tomorrows compose?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22:20" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| dwmw2: right, which is why we've stopped keeping images that have only stage1 in 'em</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22:39" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:22:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| iso images. There's still netboot</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:22:57" class="time">10:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| now we have the 'stage2=XXX' command in loader</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23:04" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so if you've got yesterday's boot images somehow, you should also have yesterday's stage2</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23:17" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so now.. you can use yesterday's kernel/stage1/stage2 with today's tree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| ok, that helps.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23:32" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:23:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| dwmw2: since we moved all the kernel modules to be in the initrd (as opposed to split between initrd and second stage), it's been _more_ likely that you can hop trees.  but not guaranteed, especially in rawhide where we could change conventions of calling /usr/bin/anaconda</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:23:48" class="time">10:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| dwmw2: but netinst.iso is one iso to rule them all, blah blah blah.  having kernel + initrd + stage2</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24:14" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we could have a serial number in the stage1+stage2 metadata that increments only when incompatible changes are made</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24:48" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:24:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685">dwmw2</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">| hm, did the initrd grow a lot when we did that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:24:59" class="time">10:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:25:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| right now we have a similar serial number, but it increments whenever the clock ticks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25:29" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:25:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25:33" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:25:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so as soon as the clock ticks, a new stage2 will be incompatible with your stage1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:25:55" class="time">10:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| dwmw2: a bit.  but we did it a while ago</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26:31" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| anyway - not really necessary for most testing, and that's not a problem we'll solve off the tops of our heads</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26:32" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we should make people know about the changes and the reasons for 'em (and the benefits)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26:53" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:26:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| wwoods: well, given that it's rawhide only and it'd have to be a manual increment...  we just try to avoid things that break it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:26:54" class="time">10:26</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:27:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| err, make *sure* people know</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:27:51" class="time">10:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28:02"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we don't need to force information directly into their brains</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28:02" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:28:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jeremy: are you planning on doing a summary mail or anything or should I tackle that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:28:23" class="time">10:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| wwoods: of what?  the installer stuff?  I've updated the release notes for the beta.  can send something later</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29:01" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| 1) no more boot.iso / diskboot.img,  2) netinst.iso is cool and here's why,  3) stage2=XXX for other purposes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29:22" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| the unanswered question so far is: how do you make a bootable USB device for installing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29:41" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:29:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| you said there was something like livecd-to-iso in the works for netinst.iso?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:29:58" class="time">10:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| err livecd-to-usb</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30:08" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:30:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| need to make sure some stage2= cases work before we can get anything like that going</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:30:59" class="time">10:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31:08" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I'll be testing that most of today probably</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31:17" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| especially w.r.t. preupgrade</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31:28" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:31:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jeremy: I'll cull something from the release notes, mostly for the rawhiders</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:31:50" class="time">10:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| wwoods: *nod*  my blog post should also give some good info</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32:09" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| need to write a good "how to install rawhide - the easy way" doc anyway</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32:11" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32:31"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | jeremy has been trying to be active about blogging cool stuff / big changes</td><td><a href="#t10:32:31" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah! it's surprisingly helpful</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32:46" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:32:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I should do that more</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:32:54" class="time">10:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| okay next topic:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33:03" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33:23"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Changes in testing for F9b</td><td><a href="#t10:33:23" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so we're going to try to use the new-style Test Plan for F9 Beta</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33:34" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| woo!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33:39" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:33:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that's <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestPlans/Fedora9Install</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:33:57" class="time">10:33</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:34:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| it might need some extra stuff for new features</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:34:43" class="time">10:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| notably encrypted rescue, stage2=, and maybe preupgrade</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35:04" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888">jeremy</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">| and changes for things like boot.iso going away</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35:07" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:35:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah, still waiting for it to load to see if there's cases that involve that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:35:27" class="time">10:35</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:36:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| but, yes, cases may have to be modified to accomodate changes in the product.. but that's part of the joy of QA@!#^!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:36:28" class="time">10:36</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:37:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| jlaska: where's the template page for filling in results?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37:16" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:37:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| wwoods: installation test plan results ... or other?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:37:37" class="time">10:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:38:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| yeah that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38:01" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:38:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| QA/TestResults/TestSummaryTemplate</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38:23" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:38:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| any test case changes will need to be made there as well as in the test plan itself </td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38:38" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:38:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| but I've been good with my wiki watch list</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:38:47" class="time">10:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:39:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| sweet. OK, we'll instantiate a page from that template for F9Beta</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39:28" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:39:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| (after making the needed changes to the plan)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:39:45" class="time">10:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:40:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| rock</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:40:09" class="time">10:40</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:41:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| that leads us nicely into the last topic</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:41:30" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:41:41"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | Discussion: create a Fedora Release Test Team</td><td><a href="#t10:41:41" class="time">10:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| we definitely want more people testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42:10" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:42:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and more importantly to me: it's hard for me to get work done on tools and plans and stuff when I have to spend most of my time testing the product</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:42:37" class="time">10:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:43:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so! as with BugZappers, organizing a Release Team under QA would make life better for everyone</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43:05" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:43:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so here's the questions: 1) what do we require from the team members, and 2) what do we provide them with?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:43:28" class="time">10:43</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:44:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| this is targeted to installer testing, but it can expand beyond that later. kind of like the QA/TestPlans stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44:15" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:44:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| so, obviously we want FRTT (heh) members to sign the CLA etc, so they can edit the wiki (and fill in their results)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:44:52" class="time">10:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:45:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| probably I'll want to create a RTT FAS group so we can give people edit access to non-wiki things</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45:19" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:45:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| like the rawhide dashboard page</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45:23" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:45:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and someday the test tracker stuff, if we get it off the wiki</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45:38" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:45:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| Also I want to have a list of, y'know, Official Release Team Members somewhere</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:45:58" class="time">10:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| good to give people recognition for all the work they do</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46:07" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:46:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| (also maybe this will free up time for me to work on the metrics/scorekeeping)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:46:23" class="time">10:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:47:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| are there other requirements, like "you have to attend X meetings per month" or "you have to contribute during alpha/beta testing"</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47:03" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:47:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| and are there other things we can offer testers (free stuff, access to private mirrors, ..?)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:47:25" class="time">10:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:49:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| I'll take that as a round of shrugs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:49:30" class="time">10:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| Give it some thought, if anything occurs to you let me know.. In the meantime I'll see about how you set up groups and stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50:23" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50:44"><td class="action" colspan="2">* | wwoods wants to make big shiny Rawhider badges</td><td><a href="#t10:50:44" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50:44" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:50:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| okay that's all from me. any other topics we'd like to discuss?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:50:56" class="time">10:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:51:00"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Fedora QA Meeting | misc</td><td><a href="#t10:51:00" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:51:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| gah I forgot we're doing CD sets again</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51:37" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:51:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| gotta order a spindle or two</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:51:45" class="time">10:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:53:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| okay then, meeting ending in 60 secs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:53:27" class="time">10:53</a></td></tr>
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<tr id="t10:54:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| tick tock tick tock</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54:56" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:54:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e">jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">| ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:54:59" class="time">10:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40">wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">| Thanks folks!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55:05" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144">f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">| woo</td><td class="time"><a href="#t10:55:12" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t10:55:27"><td class="servermsg" colspan="2">--- | wwoods has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel</a> for meeting schedule</td><td><a href="#t10:55:27" class="time">10:55</a></td></tr>
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