QA/Meetings/20080423

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-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | blocker list: <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F9Blocker&hide_resolved=1">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F9Blocker&hide_resolved=1</a><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a>
wwoodswoo meeting<a href="#t11:44" class="time">11:44</a>
wwoodsI think we're ~2 weeks from doing the serious final spin<a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a>
rdieterwoo indeed<a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a>
wwoodsI need to gather some better metrics but it looks like we have ~52 blockers<a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a>
wwoods33 on the list, 24 children, 5 blockers<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
wwoods33+24-5=52<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
wwoodsa *lot* of them are in MODIFIED<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
wwoodswhich is really good<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
f13yeah, and a lot have been closed too recently<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
wwoodsyup<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
f13I've been watching the closures<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
wwoodsyeah it's been steady<a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a>
* f13 stares at the rawhide compose process that is /still/ going.<a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a>
wwoodsI've been closing a couple a day<a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a>
wwoodsunfortunately we've also been adding a couple a day, so..<a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a>
f13some of those are dubious "blockers"<a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a>
f13maybe I need to be better at doing punt->target<a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a>
f13problem is if it's not on the blocker, some developers don't feel the need to get it done for F9<a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a>
f13but maybe that's not my problem to worry about<a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a>
wwoodsmaybe we need to message that better<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
cebbertboth of the kernel blockers that are left are kind of dubious<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
f13cebbert: feel free to toss them over at F9Target<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
cebbertone looks like it might be broken hardware<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
wwoodsTarget = "We really want this for F9 and will accept freeze breaks for it. But we won't delay the release any further if you don't fix it."<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
wwoodsBlocker = "We can't release unless this is fixed."<a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a>
rdieterI cheated, and added a pet bug or 2 to f9blocker, in the hopes of at least getting a maintainer comment.<a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a>
wwoodswe'll play a little good QA guy / bad QA guy<a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a>
wwoodsWE CAN'T RELEASE UNTIL THIS IS FIXED. MAINTAINER, YOUR ASS IS ON THE LINE HERE<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoods"oh now rdieter, don't be so hasty..."<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoodsetc.<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoodsanyway, which 2 bugs?<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
rdieter<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443320">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443320</a><a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
buggbotBug 443320: low, low, ---, Kristian Høgsberg, ASSIGNED , Cannot enter keyboard input into kdm after logout<a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a>
wwoodsseeing as we have >50 bugs and 10 work days to fix 'em all, I'm anxious to be sure they're *seriously* blockers at this point<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
rdieter<a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427383">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=427383</a><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
wwoodsah, see, that's really nasty<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
buggbotBug 427383: high, medium, ---, Adam Jackson, ASSIGNED , xorg-x11-drv-vesa causes KDE 4 to crash (on some hardware)<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
wwoodsI'd consider that first one a blocker. -vesa... is.. different<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
rdieterthe 1st one is my main concern.<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
wwoodsI'd want ajax's opinion. which is usually: "If you're using -vesa you've already lost"<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
rdieter:) nod<a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a>
rdieterI'd be happy with any comment, even that one.<a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a>
f13ajax said he's making good progress on the f9-x-blockers.<a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a>
f13and just going through them one at a time<a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a>
wwoodsyeah, he hasn't been complaining about massive impending doom<a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a>
cebbertI reported bug 443729 last night; it seems some others are hitting nearly the same problem<a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a>
buggbotBug <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=443729">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=443729</a> high, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEW , Cannot install preview release to encrypted partition<a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a>
wwoodscebbert: sounds like bug 439633<a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a>
buggbotBug <a href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=439633">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=439633</a> low, low, ---, Anaconda Maintenance Team, NEEDINFO , F9-Beta anaconda crash with PVCreateError<a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a>
wwoods(which is on the blocker list)<a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a>
* jds2001 sits in the back<a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a>
wwoodsit's possible that udev hasn't created /dev/mapper/luks-sda2 yet<a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoodsudev races are fuuuuun<a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a>
jeremynot really<a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a>
jeremy;)<a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoodsyou might try the debugging stuff as suggested in 439633 (check for udevd / device node)<a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a>
wwoodsfun with a capital F-U<a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a>
wwoodsoh, and I reproduced the notorious "Assertion c->xlib.lock' failed." bug<a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a>
wwoodswith vinagre, oddly<a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a>
wwoodsshould be fixed, but the package hasn't hit rawhide yet<a href="#t12:02" class="time">12:02</a>
wwoodsokay so. rdieter, I think you can ping ajax if you want a comment about keeping that -vesa bug as a blocker or not<a href="#t12:02" class="time">12:02</a>
wwoodsanything that's in MODIFIED should be retested and closed ASAP<a href="#t12:03" class="time">12:03</a>
wwoodsjds2001: if something's in MODIFIED, but the patch doesn't fix the bug<a href="#t12:03" class="time">12:03</a>
rdietershrug, I think I'll move it to F9Target, ajax has bigger fish to fry.<a href="#t12:03" class="time">12:03</a>
wwoodsdoes it go back to ASSIGNED or just stay in MODIFIED?<a href="#t12:03" class="time">12:03</a>
wwoodsrdieter: well, the thing is, lots of reviewers use qemu+live image to test<a href="#t12:04" class="time">12:04</a>
wwoodsso if that is busted, things look bad<a href="#t12:04" class="time">12:04</a>
rdieterqemu uses cirrus now, not vesa.  (apparently VirtualBox uses vesa still tho)<a href="#t12:04" class="time">12:04</a>
wwoodsohhhh<a href="#t12:04" class="time">12:04</a>
rdieterI'll ping ajax, hear what he has to say.<a href="#t12:05" class="time">12:05</a>
poelcatwwoods: 'not fixed' should be in ASSIGNED<a href="#t12:05" class="time">12:05</a>
jds2001wwoods: it should go back to MODIFIED<a href="#t12:05" class="time">12:05</a>
poelcatlol<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
jds2001oops<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
jds2001multitasking<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
poelcatjds2001: what?<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
wwoodsack. was using bugzilla wrong. we actually have 64 blockers.<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
jds2001try go back to ASSIGNED :)<a href="#t12:06" class="time">12:06</a>
wwoodsk, gotcha<a href="#t12:07" class="time">12:07</a>
wwoodsI don't have any special advice on working on the blockers, and I really don't want to run through all 64<a href="#t12:07" class="time">12:07</a>
wwoodsif you've got stuff you find questionable, either punt to F9Target or bring it to #fedora-qa and we'll discuss<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
wwoodsbut really, the blocker list should only contain things we would delay the release if it was left unfixed<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
wwoodsthings for which ..<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
jds2001agreed.<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
wwoodsso.. yeah. keep an eye on 'em? everything seems to be going OK, though<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
* jds2001 has been somewhat agressive removing things<a href="#t12:08" class="time">12:08</a>
wwoodsand now, a quick word about RCs<a href="#t12:09" class="time">12:09</a>
wwoodsso, the RC images will not typically be made public<a href="#t12:09" class="time">12:09</a>
wwoodsbut that's OK 'cuz anyone who actually wants to test stuff with images can build their own<a href="#t12:09" class="time">12:09</a>
wwoodsif there's anything *really* important we might put some up on the torrent server<a href="#t12:09" class="time">12:09</a>
jds2001yep, i do  that anyways<a href="#t12:09" class="time">12:09</a>
wwoodsbut, for the most part, I think RHT-internal people will take care of the media-based testcases<a href="#t12:10" class="time">12:10</a>
* f13 points out FreeBSD where the binaries themselves aren't relaly made public for release testing, releases consisit fo building everything from source on a workstation the day of release<a href="#t12:10" class="time">12:10</a>
f13well, if my reading of their release engineering guide is correct<a href="#t12:10" class="time">12:10</a>
* rdieter shudders<a href="#t12:10" class="time">12:10</a>
wwoodsunless you're testing media-based stuff, 99% of the time testing rawhide is *exactly* the same as testing whatever RC we have floating around<a href="#t12:10" class="time">12:10</a>
wwoodswhen we make a first actual RC I'll have a test results page available<a href="#t12:11" class="time">12:11</a>
wwoodsand the community folks are welcomed and encouraged to test and fill in squares on the matrix, as always<a href="#t12:11" class="time">12:11</a>
wwoodsI'll make a post to -devel-list and -test-list when that happens<a href="#t12:12" class="time">12:12</a>
wwoodsbut I just want to make sure everything's clear<a href="#t12:12" class="time">12:12</a>
wwoodswe aren't hiding anything and we aren't preventing participation<a href="#t12:12" class="time">12:12</a>
wwoodswe're dividing up the work in a way that makes sense<a href="#t12:12" class="time">12:12</a>
jds2001wwoods: does it matter if we use pungi to build images and fill in image-based results?<a href="#t12:12" class="time">12:12</a>
wwoodsjds2001: as long as you're using the same ks + tree, that should be perfectly acceptable<a href="#t12:13" class="time">12:13</a>
jds2001k<a href="#t12:13" class="time">12:13</a>
wwoodsf13: /usr/share/fedora-release/rawhide-fedora.ks is still the canonical ks for images, right?<a href="#t12:13" class="time">12:13</a>
wwoodswill that get an update when we update fedora-release for the RC, or will there be a new file?<a href="#t12:13" class="time">12:13</a>
f13wwoods: it'll be named appropriately in fedora-release<a href="#t12:14" class="time">12:14</a>
f13and the F-9 package of pungi will also gain an appropriately named copy<a href="#t12:14" class="time">12:14</a>
wwoodsf13: gotcha<a href="#t12:14" class="time">12:14</a>
wwoodshow likely is it that we'll have rc-specific changes that we'll need to put on a web page or something?<a href="#t12:15" class="time">12:15</a>
wwoodsor is the ks basically stable at this point<a href="#t12:15" class="time">12:15</a>
wwoodsand using the packaged one will always be preferred?<a href="#t12:15" class="time">12:15</a>
f13using the packaged one is preferred, and if we do have to make last minute changes, it'll be commited to the upstream source control so we can point people there<a href="#t12:17" class="time">12:17</a>
wwoodsgotcha<a href="#t12:17" class="time">12:17</a>
wwoodsI'll make a note of that on the matrix page, for testers who want to produce their own images<a href="#t12:18" class="time">12:18</a>
wwoodsokay then - anything else we want to discuss? is the plan for the next couple of weeks clear?<a href="#t12:19" class="time">12:19</a>
wwoodsf13: is the schedule accurate for when we're going to start producing RCs?<a href="#t12:19" class="time">12:19</a>
f13wwoods: I do believe so.  however that Friday is going to be.. interesting.  We're supposed to be moving offices<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
f13depending on when the move happens is when the first RC starts getting composed<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
wwoodsoh crap, right<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
wwoodswell have fun with that<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
wwoodsheh<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
f13I may be able to spin up something thursday after I land and quickly sync it off somewhere that will be available for testing during the move<a href="#t12:20" class="time">12:20</a>
wwoodsbut we plan to start making RCs at the end of next week.<a href="#t12:21" class="time">12:21</a>
wwoodsokay, so yeah. this week and next week: clean up blocker list, retest as much as possible, etc.<a href="#t12:22" class="time">12:22</a>
wwoodsend of next week: RC1<a href="#t12:22" class="time">12:22</a>
wwoodsthat's when I'll make the testing matrix<a href="#t12:22" class="time">12:22</a>
wwoodsand we'll shift priorities from Blocker Triage to Release Testing<a href="#t12:23" class="time">12:23</a>
jds2001and we'll still get accused of not testing :)<a href="#t12:23" class="time">12:23</a>
wwoodsthen we will summarily kick the ass of the testing and release Fedora 9 to deafening applause, choirs of angels, &c<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
wwoodsha. yes.<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
jds2001sounds great! :)<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
wwoodsFedora QA (which does not exist)<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
wwoodswill test Red Hat's desktop product (which also does not exist)<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
jds2001lol<a href="#t12:24" class="time">12:24</a>
wwoodsthis sure is a lot of work for something that doesn't exist<a href="#t12:25" class="time">12:25</a>
wwoodsbut I guess it's OK 'cuz I don't exist either<a href="#t12:25" class="time">12:25</a>
wwoodsanyway, enough nonsense. any other actual discussion topics?<a href="#t12:25" class="time">12:25</a>
wwoodsotherwise: meeting ends in 60s<a href="#t12:25" class="time">12:25</a>
f13there is no fpoon<a href="#t12:25" class="time">12:25</a>
wwoodsindeed<a href="#t12:27" class="time">12:27</a>
wwoodsthanks all<a href="#t12:27" class="time">12:27</a>

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