QA/Meetings/20080507

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<tr id="t11:02"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | init</td><td><a href="#t11:02" class="time">11:02</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:03"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">qa meeting time!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:03"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 </td><td><a href="#t11:03" class="time">11:03</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">blaaaat</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:04"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13, mether, viking-ice_, comphappy, notting, DemonJester: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:04" class="time">11:04</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* viking-ice_ pong on laptop</td><td><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* viking-ice pong..  on workstation</td><td><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">a random note. sometime after F9 is out I'm gonna actually go through with my mumblings about having a proper QA board and FAS group</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I mention it because.. it'll make the roll call easier</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><td class="action" colspan="2">* viking-ice second that..</td><td><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:05"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">lol</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:05" class="time">11:05</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jds2001, poelcat: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">see? I forget people.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">my apologies for that.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat here</td><td><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jlaska: ping</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:06"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 is easily forgettable :)</td><td><a href="#t11:06" class="time">11:06</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think he has a scheduling conflict with this meeting</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but sometimes lurks</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I need to bug him about doing some pseries testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:07"><th class="nick" style="background: #488888"> rdieter</th><td class="text" style="color: #488888">jds2001: all the best ninjas are. :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:07" class="time">11:07</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:08"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jlaska lurks</td><td><a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:08"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | F9 RC1 and test status: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease</a></td><td><a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">fighting some 5.2 issues right now ... but present</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:08"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so! unless I've confused myself, today's rawhide is the offically official RC1 (f13, confirm?)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:08"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 just finished rsync'ing it.</td><td><a href="#t11:08" class="time">11:08</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: sadly there are 2 packages that are going to be bumped, due to file corruption on the koji store</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">jds2001: tell me if it installs... i've got a mismatch somewhere</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: ooh. ouch.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">however those are fringe packages, and it's only one ppc rpm and one ppc-debuginfo rpm</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:09"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah yes. yeah, low-impact. so we're just dropping 'em from the repos, or rebuilding?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:09" class="time">11:09</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">rebuilding</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">unfortunately one is a 3 hour rebuild.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">gross.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">very</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:10"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, the impact on the required testing for final is basically 0</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:10" class="time">11:10</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but one of us with ppc machines should be sure to check it tomorrow</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">the installation test results are going nicely</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yeah, getting lots of results, I'm very happy</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">just need to verify some stuff like the hd iso and nfs iso and the other bugs that anaconda supposedly fixed like ftp password</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:11"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I want to thank everyone for their help, especially comphappy and DemonJester</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:11" class="time">11:11</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I'm still putting the final touches on the tree, like the jigdo files, gpg signing, etc...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right, I was going to ask - we needed to invalidate the hdiso/nfsiso results because of the new anaconda build</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I've been able to concentrate more on that then on the tree testing, which is a good thing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I take that to mean you haven't retested?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> DemonJester</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">you are welcome! glad to help where I can ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: not with today's compose</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 can test nfsiso soon.</td><td><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:12"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">DemonJester: it is very much appreciated!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:12" class="time">11:12</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">we're also pretty well pre-synced to PHX for the Fedora/Everything stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">like f13 says, it frees us up to do further testing and release prep stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">Live images will go later, and those I need to do a bunch of testing on.  Hopefully today is live testing day</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jeremy: ping?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">with your help I can honestly say this has been one of the least stressful final release cycles I've ever been involved with</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:13"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">(not to say it's been all milk and honey, but still, much easier than any previous one)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:13" class="time">11:13</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, live testing would be excellent. I don't think we have a specific test plan for that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:14"><td class="other" colspan="2">-!- wwoods changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora QA Meeting | Live testing</td><td><a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">since we don't have a specific test plan we fall back to the ReleaseCriteria: <a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/ReleaseCriteria</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: so a rawhide compose is being re-purposed as an RC</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:14"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:14" class="time">11:14</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: re-purposed?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there's no difference in content between today's rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and anything we'd build as an RC right now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">therefore: today's rawhide can be considered RC1</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:15"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">in terms of included packaging as appropriately tagged in koji ... you are correct</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:15" class="time">11:15</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yeah, the only package changes I'm expecting live outside the Fedora spin.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">this may be my unfamiliarity with the process ... but my naive thought would be a rawhide compose wouldn't produce the same signed results as a official RC comopse</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: is that not the case for Fedora?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:16"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: why would it?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:16" class="time">11:16</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: not the case.  rawhide has signed packages in it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">the only difference is a re-run of the compose tools</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so the RC .treeinfo will say "version = development" ?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">ah, signatures. yeah, in this case we have had signed packages in rawhide for a couple weeks now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">which is getting some validation.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><td class="action" colspan="2">* f13 thinks we're all talking past eachother</td><td><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">my life for a whiteboard.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:17"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yes rawhide .treeinfo still says "development" but that's irrelevant to testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:17" class="time">11:17</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: we take the rawhide tree, we point pungi at it, and let pungi create the Fedora tree from the bits in rawhide</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:18"><td class="action" colspan="2">* viking-ice bling an idea online whiteboard..</td><td><a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: yes and no</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: the packages are the same.  Some of the data bits, like the .treeinfo and the repodata and whatnot will be slightly different</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:18"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">exactly</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:18" class="time">11:18</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">there is definitely some overlap in terms of testing rawhide packages</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I think "some" understates it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:19"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: since (mostly) the same tool is used to create rawhide and the RC spin, mostly we're looking at the rc bits to make sure the compose process didn't fall over</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:19" class="time">11:19</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: otherwise rawhide works perfectly fine to test installability, functionality, etc...</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">For purposes of Fedora QA, the set of things that are RC-specific is tiny. Furthermore that stuff can't get tested outside the RH firewall</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: and others use pungi locally to produce local iso sets to test things like iso installs</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: so the stage2.img and ramdisk's between rawhide and the final RC will be the same?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: no, they are recreated</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">or will those change during the pungi-ficcation process?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:20"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: rather have been recreated.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:20" class="time">11:20</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but we're not going to redo the entire test process because we've changed a handful of metadata</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: I haven't suggested that</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:21"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: I'm just trying to understand the current process ... and reconcile the differences with a more formal QA process</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:21" class="time">11:21</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:22"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we can make recommendations from there ... I certainly don't want to suggest anything disruptive at this point :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:22" class="time">11:22</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">gotcha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">well, we can discuss the differences between our process and a more formal QA process at a later time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'd be happy to give you a detailed walkthrough of the current Fedora process</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:23"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: basically we put trust in the tools to produce consistant output</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:23" class="time">11:23</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: and test that trust by reproducing the output in many places and testing said output</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: so what has worked really well in "other areas" is when the RC is basically read-only from that point out ... meaning, all things being equal, it's what would get rsync'd and written to media for customers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: hehe ... I'm in QA, I don't have that trust ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but! at the moment we're hip-deep in the process already and less than a week from GA</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">has anyone done some testing on more "complex" partition layout in anaconda than the default.. I have been faced with weird behavior of the "ask for encrypted password" box in anaconda with multiple encrypted ( ext3, ext4 ) and none encrypted partition layout.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we need to focus on getting through the process first</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:24"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">so that we can have confidence in what we produce as "RC" on a compose machine is supposed to be the same thing that was produced for rawhide which is mirrored and public.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:24" class="time">11:24</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">viking-ice: i have kickstarts in snake for some of that stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jds2001: ooh ... any chance you could share ... maybe we can package some of these with snake?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: basically it's working around the fact that getting the bits from the compose machine to the world is expensive in time, money, and effort.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:25"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: should we schedule a meeting sometime so we can give an overview of the evolved Fedora QA process to RHEL QE folks?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:25" class="time">11:25</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: something that RHEL doesn't necessarily have to worry about.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><td class="action" colspan="2">* poelcat thinks this would be a good fudcon session as this disagreement seems to comes up from time and seems rooted in  each person's definition of "how formal of a QA process" fedora requires</td><td><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: not to mention the difference in what our "customers" expect</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jlaska: not a problem :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">that and the fact that we don't have an automated testing lab to throw the compose output at.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">f13: we do, it hasn't been used</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:26"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">poelcat: or it's unusable.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:26" class="time">11:26</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">and not open source thus can't be a part of the official Fedora infrastructure</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">this conversation's been had a few times and now isn't really the time</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:27"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">it could still provide value, but we don't have to argue about that here and now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:27" class="time">11:27</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: I agree</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">f13: when do we need to start synching the presumed-final bits?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: you mean the bits that are already synced?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:28"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">er, okay. when's the last minute we can hit the Big Red Button Of Doom?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:28" class="time">11:28</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: the minute before I chmod the 9 directory to allow mirrors access to it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">which I'd like to do today or tomorrow.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:29"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay. so at the outside we have ~36 hours to make sure there are no showstoppers remaining</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:29" class="time">11:29</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">and that's if we really want to test f13's patience</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">any larger discussions of general QA strategy and philosophy will have to wait until after then</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:30"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">yeah, the longer we delay the fewer mirrors we'll have ready to go come GA.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:30" class="time">11:30</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: you raise a good point about the "getting the bits out" difference between fedora composition and RHEL ... I'll churn the brain a bit and perhaps we all can discuss further @ FUDCON</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">also, anything found after this afternoon will likely mean a slip in the release date.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">if you really think the tree ought to be QA'd by running it through some automated system, be my guest, let me know how it goes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:31"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but we do not have the time to discuss or develop such an architecture right now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:31" class="time">11:31</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">getting back to testing Live</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jeremy's in class at the moment, I believe, but we should be getting Live images sometime later today</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I've got 3 machines for which I can use to test live, an i386 mac mini, an x86_64 imac, and an x86_64 amd system</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:32"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: wwoods: sorry for the tangeant, my QA spidey sense was tingling from past "gotchas" (not in a good way) ... we'll revisit post RC</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:32" class="time">11:32</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">only one can be used with usb live images</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">(the amd)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: sure thing, more than happy to have the conversation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:33"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: It's definitely worth discussing. Later.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:33" class="time">11:33</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">AFAIK this is the same process we used for Alpha and Beta and the PR so we're fairly sure it's OK</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: so I'll hit actual media for those two arches plus usb, and do installs from both</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">and I can do testing in kvm of the same</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right, I've got an x86 mini and two x86_64 dells. oh, and that G5 power mac</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">are we getting ppc live images this time around?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:34"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: ping? are you the ppc keymaster?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:34" class="time">11:34</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">i am, we aren't</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:35" class="time">11:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:35"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">at least not in time for release</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:35" class="time">11:35</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I'll hook up with jeremy and get the Live/ dir populated on reducto with the release candidate live images</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: are there certain areas of the installation matrix you're looking for community test feedback on?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: or is there a "yet to be created" matrix whose results you need?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:36"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">wwoods, have you heard of many requests for PPC live cd/dvds?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:36" class="time">11:36</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:37"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: not really, although I enjoy having them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:37" class="time">11:37</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">wwoods, i've not done any for a couple reasons.  1, there are some interesting "which kernel" issues, and 2, no demand</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there's currently no matrix specifically for live images, so we have to fall back on the ReleaseCriterie and common sense</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: we have no matrix for live image testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:38"><th class="nick" style="background: #97974f"> jwb</th><td class="text" style="color: #97974f">but we can look at that again if we want</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:38" class="time">11:38</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: we stubbed out a one-the-fly matrix for swfdec and PackageKit a few weeks back and got some great community feedback</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jwb: yeah, no, it's tricky to get right and people aren't really clamoring for it</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><td class="action" colspan="2">* wwoods brb sigwife</td><td><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93"> /me for the record common sense ain't that common... :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">fumble..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">heh</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">we can certainly rinse-and-repeat for some "basic" community assistance on the Live CD part</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:39"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: yeah, that was successful, but the bits were also publically available.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:39" class="time">11:39</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">yeah, that's why we like to have a well-defined test plan with well-defined test cases</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">live cd ones aren't, and slightly more difficult to produce on ones own.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: ah ... so we've have to post the ISO images somewhere first for this?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">well, anyone can *make* these bits.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: to get external testing, yes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">but yeah, check the simple stuff: burn the image, boot the image, make sure all the boot menu items work as expected</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jds2001: yes, but it's more trixy since you can't use mock.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">when it boots, make sure everything comes up right. make sure all the apps in the menus start up.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">right....</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:40"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: is that a possibility?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:40" class="time">11:40</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: e.g. posting those iso images?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: posting yes, posting and having any reasonable amount of time to see them get downloaded, testing, and reported upon not really</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:41"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: as stated before, any needed changes would have to be noticed by COB today or else we'd slip the release.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:41" class="time">11:41</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">and I'm not one to pre-slip the release just to give time to potentially find problems</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: ah okay ... so the best we could hope for community feedback would be proposing some LiveCD sanity tests?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">probably, if you ignore the fact that there is an office here and in RDU full of Fedora community members</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">they just also happen to be RH employees</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:42"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:42" class="time">11:42</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">posting the isos is a waste of time and bandwidth</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">we usually burn a stack of CDs and USB keys then go wander about the office asking people to boot stuff.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">sounds like a plan :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:43"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">at least with our current schedule</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:43" class="time">11:43</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:44"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">err - posting the *install* isos</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:44" class="time">11:44</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: wwoods: indeed, given the current time restrictions, the return on investment of publicly mirroring the Live CD iso's may be too low</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">sorry</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">that's not an issue, they are triviaal to produce.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">the install iso's, that is.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">hopefully we can make it easier to bake your own semi-official live images at home</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">for F10</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:45"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jds2001: right, until you consider the reluctance of QA to make assumptions that what you produce and what jeremy produced are 'the same' enough for testing (:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:45" class="time">11:45</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">I'm comfortable with that assumption</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:46"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 was just going to say that.</td><td><a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">because our "customers" seem comfortable with it and they accept the results of that testing</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">and it is the only practical way to get community testing.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:46"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">There is a fundamental difference in expectations between RHEL consumers and Fedora consumers</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:46" class="time">11:46</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">+1000</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:47"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 being both :)</td><td><a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">exactly - and you don't apply the same standards to both because you don't have the same expectations of both</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, again, tangent</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:47"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">true</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:47" class="time">11:47</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">heee</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: my reluctance comes from experience ... but I'm definitely open to new ways of doing things ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it makes sense to spend a month testing frozen bits, if those bits need to be supported for 7 years</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: I have reluctance too, which is why I trust, but verify</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: well spoken</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">I just verify a smaller set of things than we have on our public matrix</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: I think what I'm struggling with is giving the community a chance to join in the "verify" part</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:48"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">but that's the future discussion</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:48" class="time">11:48</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">indeed</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">what will change that dynamic a lot is when we move to doing the composes in PHX on "public" hardware/directories</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">this sounds like an excellent fudcon discussion :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">anyway, so the take-away here is.. we're *not* going to be able to make the LiveCD images public?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: oh yeah ... that's a good point</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:49"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: yeah I think so</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:49" class="time">11:49</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> DemonJester</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">couldnt you simply provide "official" build kickstarts for the community to build the live cd's themselves?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">wwoods: yes, that is my estimation.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jds2001: +++ :))</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">DemonJester: yes, like we do with the pungi stuff</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">DemonJester: we do that already, but the problem is that tools sometimes fail, and compose environments can differ.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">except the livecd tools aren't quite as robust or mature</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:50"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so, yeah, the results are not as reliable</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:50" class="time">11:50</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: so perhaps as f13 suggested ... we put a call out for folks inside the office ... and provide a matrix?  DOes this seem reasonable ... or is that too much ofa sledgehammer approach for the feedback you're looking for?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">that's definitely a goal, though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #4b904b"> DemonJester</th><td class="text" style="color: #4b904b">gotcha</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: no, that's pretty much what I had in mind, but I'm not sure about throwing together a matrix in a few minutes</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:51"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">still, better than nothin'</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:51" class="time">11:51</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: definitly ... and we can have non-rht community help in generating the matrix</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">jlaska: that would work, but yeah, we have maybe an hour or two to put up a matrix</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">I think we can pull something together in 30mins</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">(counting the 30 minutes for me to bolt down some food)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:52"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">if folks want ... we can toss ideas out here now</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:52" class="time">11:52</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">right</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">so we're brainstorming a list of Live test cases?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">yeah .. .what the heck ... I'll jot 'em down and post them</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:53"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">okay. obvious stuff:</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:53" class="time">11:53</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it boots, autologin works, screensaver not activated, persistence works if applicable, installation works.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">* application startup for everything in the menu</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">installation ... using defaults?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you can't configure liveCD installation</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jlaska: i think that's all you can do</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it just writes itself to the hard drive</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jds2001: cool, makes sense</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:54"><td class="action" colspan="2">* DemonJester agrees</td><td><a href="#t11:54" class="time">11:54</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: you mean going through the gnome menus and starting all apps?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: yep</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">there are't that many</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">gotcha ... that's bold ;)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it's a ReleaseRequirement</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jlaska knows there is some dogtail online for that somewhere</td><td><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">shouldnt take too long</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">err ReleaseCriteria</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">gotta do it for KDE too, though</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: good point ... so what are all the images we'll need ot test?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:55"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">do we do PK stuff differently for RO/RW?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:55" class="time">11:55</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #42427e"> f13</th><td class="text" style="color: #42427e">if we're headed into matrix discussion, I'm going to step away for a few minutes.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">f13: take the blue pill!</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: x86_64/i386 * KDE/GNOME</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:56"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">so 4 iso's?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:56" class="time">11:56</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">yea that's one thing i've been wondering about are most of you just doing default installs with anaconda cause I think anaconda is in good shape for defaults but on the grey area for non default installs..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">do we care about the medium used to boot them (e.g. cdrom vs usb key)?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">just hand them out via person 1 gets gnome i386, person 2 gets gnome x86_64, etc.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">viking-ice: default what? partition layout, package selection?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">wwoods yep..</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">jlaska: we care if persistence matters</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">viking-ice: check the test matrix (<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/TestResults/Fedora9Install/FinalRelease</a>)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:57"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">it details the different partitioning schemes etc we have tested</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:57" class="time">11:57</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">note that there are *not* test cases for encryption yet! I've been testing it kind of scattershot</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:58"><td class="action" colspan="2">* jds2001 tested encryption in ks.</td><td><a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">it worked awhile back, not sure about now.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: there are a few ...<a href="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/EncryptedBlockDevices#head-3754cffc4686ac4c76bebcc9605e3f82f0b066b0">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/EncryptedBlockDevices#head-3754cffc4686ac4c76bebcc9605e3f82f0b066b0</a></td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:58"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: yeah, we care about RO (CD/DVD) vs. RO (USB) vs. RW (USB)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:58" class="time">11:58</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jds2001: re: persistance ... is that included by default if you burn a liveCD ... or is special livecd-tools magic required to do that?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">wwoods: okay</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">i think special magic is required.</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">jlaska: persistence only works on USB</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #818144"> jds2001</th><td class="text" style="color: #818144">of course, since that's the only RW media :)</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t11:59"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">you need to pass livecd-iso-to-disk a special flag</td><td class="time"><a href="#t11:59" class="time">11:59</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">livecd-iso-to-disk --overlay-size-mb <size></td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #8c4a4a"> jlaska</th><td class="text" style="color: #8c4a4a">jds2001: wwoods: so do we consider that a test for the livecd-tools suite ... and not for the provided liveCD iso images?</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:00"><th class="nick" style="background: #854685"> poelcat</th><td class="text" style="color: #854685">wwoods: how much longer do you guys need for QA meeting? BugZappers were hoping to meet at 12:00</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:00" class="time">12:00</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">we can take this session to #fedora-qa</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #4d4d93"> viking-ice</th><td class="text" style="color: #4d4d93">wwoods: we might wanna add to the package selection test matrix All packages ( along with default and minimal )</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a></td></tr>
<tr id="t12:01"><th class="nick" style="background: #407a40"> wwoods</th><td class="text" style="color: #407a40">viking-ice: it's there already</td><td class="time"><a href="#t12:01" class="time">12:01</a></td></tr>
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