QA/Meetings/20090824

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Contents

Attendees

  • Adam Williamson (adamw)
  • David Pravec (dpravec)
  • Edward Kirk (tk009)
  • James Laska (jlaska)
  • Kamil Paral (kparal)
  • Will Woods (wwoods)
  • Jesse Keating (f13)
  • Kevin Fenzi (nirik)
  • (nanonyme)
  • Luke Macken (lmacken)
  • Sebastian Dziallas (sdziallas)
  • Lucas Rodrigues (lmr)

Regrets:

  • Liam Li (lili)
  • He Rui (rhe)


Agenda

Previous meeting follow-up

  • [jlaska] - sync up w/ viking_ice to discuss coordination for upcoming dracut test day

No updates, wasn't able to sync up with Viking_Ice. However, I have been building on his initial test day wiki draft and in communication with Harald Hoyer on wiki test areas he'd like to see covered.

Mini post F-12-Alpha recap

Jlaska asked the group for feedback on what worked well, and what areas needed improvement for the recent F-12-Alpha release.

What worked well

  • f13 suggested ... there was a ton more communication between releng and QA. Jlaska agreed and requested continued use of tracking collaborative efforts through the rel-eng trac tickets. Jlaska also noted that Liam was having some problems receiving email updates, but would follow-up with fedora-infrastructure if issues remained.
  • Jlaska suggested ... another thing I felt worked well was the alpha blocker bug meetings. F13 agreed and also noted that the more detailed schedule helped. Adamw wondered if the Friday blocker day was the best day to schedule. However, f13 noted it gave time for folks in EMEA and APAC timezones to get a head start.

What needs improvement

  • Adamw reminded the team ... i think the main area for improvement that presented itself is not in our processes but just the anaconda-sync-with-releases thing. The consensus was this was an area for improvement, but folks weren't clear how to proceed and what venue to discuss in.
  • Jlaska suggested that the current install test plan could stand to be made more agile ... so it is a more attainable goal.
  • Jlaska noted that ... current planned testing is only focused on installation and asked if there were improvements to be made to increase test coverage for other areas of the distro?

Adamw noted, that thinking only in an alpha context, the other major areas ... of concern ... are networking and the yum/rpm stack, and xorg. Those are areas where most people are vocal about should problems surface. xorg is tricky like anaconda as it's quite hardware dependent, but it might be nice to have a basic setup for testing at least if intel, nouveau and radeon aren't entirely broken.

F13 reminded the group that there is a focus on installation test as that is the biggest barrier to getting more test feedback from Alpha/Beta testers. Adamw agreed, but noted that if we have the hardware (i can cover nvidia and possibly radeon at a push) we could have a little xorg table in there.

Wwoods noted that ensuring basic functionality of intel/nouveau/radeon is supposed to be part of the QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan (see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:X_basic_display_test_case). Some discussion followed as to where would be best to record results for basic display testing, the consensus was in the short-term having a test matrix to get some feedback on intel/nouveau/radeon feedback would be good.

AutoQA update from wwoods

Recent changes

Wwoods updated the group on recent AutoQA activities, including:

  • updated conflicts test - it was doing Obsoletes and Conflicts wrong, and taking 5 hours to run
  • Improved email headers for autoqa-results ... includes test, arch and a summary of errors (e.g. repoclosure: 34 packages with unresolved deps in rawhide-x86_64)
  • The rats_* tests were broken over the weekend, but were fixed
  • wwoods> anyway, I rewrote the option-parsing code in the autoqa harness to be more sane (i.e. not hardcoding hook-specific code in the main harness)

Jlaska planned to add a SDV system that supports KVM into Wwoods autotest server.

F13 updated the group that a new autotest was released upstream (0.11) that includes support for the latest Django in Fedora. Wwoods asked jlaska for an extra virt guest to test the updated autotest package. F13 will provide an updated autotest server. Woods, dpravec and jlaska would provide test using the newer build.

Adamw asked, aren't we now at the point where we could actually create the much-vaunted israwhidebroken.com? Wwoods suggested he was close, but would need a way to push/pull data from autotest to send to another system. After, having an (authenticated) way for qa team people to fill in the boxes for unautomated bits (e.g. Xorg).

What's next ...

Wwoods gave an update on his plan for the upcoming week:

  • look into that (pulling/pushing data from autotest for e.g. israwhidebroken.com)
  • writing docs so petr / dpravec / et. al. can get their hands dirty designing new tests/hooks, like Fedora TPS and such

Test Day updates

fedora-test-announce request?

David recommended fedora-test-announce mailing list for all QA related events. David suggested .. i heard people telling me that they would love to participate some test days, but they do not read many mail lists. Some people only read fedora-announce, some miss the the mails on the fedora-test-list traffic.

Adamw sends reminders to fedora planet (blog), fedora forums. All agreed that fedora-announce was not the right forum for test days.

The general consensus was that a new mailing list wouldn't hurt. F13 suggested having the new list bcc all mails to the existing fedora-test-list for folks who don't sign up to the list.

Dpravec would file a ticket in https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report and follow-up.

2009-08-18 - Printing

Jlaska hasn't heard from mclasen on how the printing test day went and asked the team if anyone had feedback on the success/fail of the Printing test day? Adamw but i was around for some of the day, seemed to be going well. Mostly participation was from the fnf guys and the printing guys - but a few other testers did drop by.

2009-08-20 - ABRT

ABRT test day was a success. Thanks to Dpravec and Kparal. See test summary From David Pravec.

Dpravec noted adamw's script for gathering feedback was helpful for generating the ABRT test report.

2009-08-27 - Dracut

Jlaska spoke w/ Harald quite a bit last week and created a few test cases on the wiki (see Test_Day:2009-08-27. Additional tests needed for remaining root= boot scenarios.

The current state:

  • the 3 core test cases are already defined
  • These tests need to be performed in different root= environments (root=UUID, root=LABEL, root=luks-UUID, root=/dev/md0, etc...)

Planning to wrap up wiki today. Any suggestions for improvement, feel free to ping jlaska.

Open discussion

nightly live builds (adamw)

Adamw reminded the group about the great work from nirik on providing daily rawhide live images. Adamw also updated the existing Releases/Rawhide#Nightly_live_builds wiki to direct users to live images. Team consensus ... nirik rocks!

Adamw recommended folks advertise this change as much as possible (blogs, mailing lists, irc discussion, tweets, etc...)

F13 expressed concerns on the value of advertising daily rawhide live image downloads. The main concern was that by providing daily live images, we might be encouraging frequent/daily downloads of rawhide live images ... even when not required. The end result, the increased bandwith load would limit the ability of testers to provide test results against live images and RC milestones also hosted on the same server. A long debate followed debating the value of providing live images and how much real testing they receive.

Jlaska took an action item to raise this topic again with the fedora-infrastructure team. If there are problems or we need to limit access to the bits, or throttle downloads ... the infrastructure team would be best to advise.

bugzilla and test days (dpravec)

Dpravec suggested getting rid of the wiki tables for test results and using bugzilla directly to track test results against test cases. Perhaps using bugzilla keywords to track Test Day and Test Case information.

Adamw noted that not all test days were a list of bugs, some events track results against specific test cases (e.g. Test_Day:2009-03-26_Nouveau#Results).

Some discussion followed about the best mechanism. Jokes followed about a pony (see http://i-want-a-pony.com).

No conclusions were reached. There was a general sense that a test case mgmt system would be helpful. Jlaska suggested that any small improvements to the current wiki tracking mechanisms should definitely be considered. A formal test case mgmt system is ideal but definitely requires a lot of time+resources.

No updates for rawhide x86_64 (kparal)?

Kparal asked why no package updates have been sent for Rawhide/x86_64 in the last few days. Dpravec noted that there were package updates available. Kparal condluced perhaps a mirror problem existed.

<your topic here>

Upcoming QA events

Action items

  • [dpravec] - investigate creating fedora-test-announce mailing list for Test Days, other test events, schedule updates
  • [jlaska] - talk with Liam about how we can make the current install test plan more attainable/achievable in the given time frames
  • [jlaska] - cleanup remaining test cases for dracut and send announcement
  • [jlaska] - discuss bandwith implications of hosting nightly rawhide live images with fedora-infrastructure
  • [Oxf13] - will do a build of the new autotest version for testing.
  • [jlaska + wwoods] to test latest autotest build
  • UNASSIGNED
    • include a xorg-x11-drv matrix in F-12-Beta test matrix for nouveau, intel and radeon

IRC transcript

jlaska | #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting Aug 24 11:59
zodbot | Meeting started Mon Aug 24 15:59:50 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. Aug 24 11:59
zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Aug 24 11:59
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 11:59
jlaska | #topic gathering people Aug 24 12:00
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: gathering people (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:00
* | kparal is here Aug 24 12:00
jlaska | howdy folks ... a few minutes for everyone to join ... and we'll kick things off Aug 24 12:00
adamw | howdy doodly Aug 24 12:00
* | tk009 stands-to Aug 24 12:01
lmr_ | jlaska: I am here too :) Aug 24 12:02
jlaska | lmr_: howdy! Aug 24 12:02
jlaska | kparal: nanonyme: tkjacobsen: adamw: hey hey :) Aug 24 12:02
jlaska | s/tkjacobsen/tk009/ Aug 24 12:02
jlaska | foiled by tab complete again Aug 24 12:02
nanonyme | Hey and thanks for inviting. Sounded interesting. :) Aug 24 12:03
jlaska | thanks for joining ... new ideas always welcome Aug 24 12:03
jlaska | I suspect wwoods and dpravec lurking in the shadows Aug 24 12:04
jlaska | wwoods might still be bear-proofing the cube Aug 24 12:04
jlaska | do we have Viking-Ice around as well? Aug 24 12:05
dpravec | yes i am here Aug 24 12:05
jlaska | dpravec: hey there! Aug 24 12:05
dpravec | :) Aug 24 12:05
jlaska | okay ... let's get moving and hopefully folks will join in soon Aug 24 12:06
jlaska | I don't have a lot on the agenda today ... mainly just recap on the Alpha, a slot fo autoqa updates, and some test day talk Aug 24 12:06
jlaska | see agenda @ https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00608.html Aug 24 12:06
jlaska | #topic Previous meeting follow-up Aug 24 12:06
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Previous meeting follow-up (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:07
jlaska | the only action item I captured was for me to sync up w/ Viking-Ice on the dracut testing Aug 24 12:07
jlaska | and I failed there :( Aug 24 12:07
jlaska | I'm building on the page I believe Viking-Ice drafted with guidance from harald Aug 24 12:07
jlaska | we can talk more about that in the test day section though Aug 24 12:07
jlaska | any other follow-up items from last week that were not covered? Aug 24 12:08
* | Oxf13 Aug 24 12:08
Oxf13 | I'm here Aug 24 12:08
Oxf13 | just got online here at the *$ Aug 24 12:08
jlaska | Oxf13: howdy! Aug 24 12:08
jlaska | okay ... hearing silence on previous meeting ... let's move into agenda Aug 24 12:09
--- | tibbs_ is now known as tibbs Aug 24 12:09
jlaska | #topic F-12 post-alpha recap Aug 24 12:09
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: F-12 post-alpha recap (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:09
jlaska | so hopefully not getting ahead of myself by calling it post-alpha recap Aug 24 12:09
Oxf13 | it would take an act of god to prevent us from releasing on Tuesday Aug 24 12:09
jlaska | but wanted to spend a few minutes on a mini post-mortem for the Alpha Aug 24 12:10
jlaska | Oxf13: yes, hopefully they stay up in their mountains Aug 24 12:10
jlaska | so ... let's start out with things that worked well Aug 24 12:10
jlaska | anyone want to volunteer? Aug 24 12:10
Oxf13 | there was a ton more communication between releng and QA Aug 24 12:10
Oxf13 | which was a great thing Aug 24 12:10
jlaska | Oxf13: yeah, I found it really helpful to hop onto those releng tickets that impacted us Aug 24 12:11
Oxf13 | that's good, so that we get more value out of the tickets themselves. Filing them is a bit of a pain Aug 24 12:12
jlaska | Oxf13: Liam's working out an issue with not getting email updates when he was on the ticket Aug 24 12:12
Oxf13 | interesting! Aug 24 12:12
jlaska | Oxf13: but ideally, if we work out of the tickets, he can initiate test results as soon as bits are in hand Aug 24 12:12
Oxf13 | it was his FAS name on the ticket? Aug 24 12:12
Oxf13 | nod, I'll have to be better about touching the tickets as work progresses. Aug 24 12:13
Oxf13 | last couple releases the work all ahappened, and then the tickets got mass closed after the fact Aug 24 12:13
jlaska | Oxf13: no worries, I think we policed ourselves on it for the alpha ... as long as you don't mind ... I'd like to keep doing that Aug 24 12:13
jlaska | another thing I felt worked well was the alpha blocker bug meetings Aug 24 12:14
adamw | i think the main area for improvement that presented itself is not in our processes but just the anaconda-sync-with-releases thing Aug 24 12:14
Oxf13 | yeah, those were great Aug 24 12:14
Oxf13 | as was the more detailed schedule Aug 24 12:14
adamw | i think most of our processes went off pretty well to be honest Aug 24 12:14
jlaska | adamw: thanks for bringing that up ... we discussed that briefly during one of the blocker meetings Aug 24 12:14
jlaska | how do folks feel about the current scheduling of blocker meetings Aug 24 12:15
adamw | yeah, we need to move it forward in some other venue but i haven't got enough round tuits yet :/ Aug 24 12:15
jlaska | leading up to, during and after milestones Aug 24 12:15
adamw | the only thing i wonder about the scheduling is whether friday's the best day, since it means any problems we find may not be addressed for two or three days Aug 24 12:15
adamw | though we're pretty overloaded on other days of the week Aug 24 12:15
Oxf13 | doing it on Friday means that those outside of US times get a jump start on work needed the next week Aug 24 12:16
jlaska | adamw: yeah I think that was the initial concern (if I could speak for poelcat) ... collissions with other events Aug 24 12:16
adamw | Oxf13: true Aug 24 12:16
jlaska | Oxf13: that's true too Aug 24 12:16
jlaska | Oxf13: speaking of, I requested that poelcat add another blocker bug date to the Beta Aug 24 12:16
jlaska | it would be right after we do some pre-TC testing Aug 24 12:16
Oxf13 | ok Aug 24 12:16
Oxf13 | sounds reasonable Aug 24 12:17
jlaska | cool Aug 24 12:17
jlaska | = okay ... things that could be improved = Aug 24 12:17
jlaska | * the test plan needs to be more agile Aug 24 12:17
jlaska | * current planned testing is only focused on installation Aug 24 12:17
jlaska | I don't get the warm feelings about other areas of the distro ... are there things we can be doing there Aug 24 12:18
jlaska | or do we feel the fedora-{devel,test}-list reports are sufficient? Aug 24 12:18
adamw | thinking only in an alpha context, the other major areas are networking and the yum/rpm stack, and xorg Aug 24 12:18
adamw | i think casual reports are likely to cover any major problems in networking and yum/rpm Aug 24 12:18
adamw | it's the kind of thing it's quite hard to miss if it's broken Aug 24 12:19
jlaska | true, there is a lot of value in having *many* eyes looking at this stuff Aug 24 12:19
adamw | xorg is tricky like anaconda as it's quite hardware dependent, but it might be nice to have a basic setup for testing at least if intel, nouveau and radeon aren't entirely broken Aug 24 12:19
Oxf13 | I think we tend to focus on installer, because unlike the rest of the OS which has to be "testable", installer has to work in order to test other things Aug 24 12:19
Oxf13 | so we provide the installer testing to make sure it can get installed, then rely upon users to cover the rest of the os as the Alpha is released Aug 24 12:20
adamw | and yeah, i agree with oxf13, the installer is easily the _most_ critical bit, because you're not going to be able to workaround it at all if it's broken Aug 24 12:20
adamw | with X you can at _least_ fall back on vesa or something Aug 24 12:20
jlaska | yeah ... all good points Aug 24 12:20
jlaska | testing the installer does touch on a quite a bit of these other areas too Aug 24 12:20
adamw | but with that caveat, if we have the hardware (i can cover nvidia and possibly radeon at a push) we could have a little xorg table in there Aug 24 12:21
Oxf13 | nod Aug 24 12:21
jlaska | I'm open to trying it for the Beta ... if it doesn't work ... no harm done Aug 24 12:21
wwoods | little xorg table in where? Aug 24 12:21
adamw | well something like the install text matrix Aug 24 12:22
adamw | whether it goes on the same page or not i dunno Aug 24 12:22
wwoods | ensuring basic functionality of intel/nouveau/radeon is supposed to be part of the rawhide acceptance plan Aug 24 12:22
wwoods | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:X_basic_display_test_case Aug 24 12:22
Oxf13 | we don't have tables for it though do we? Aug 24 12:22
adamw | well, so is testing the installer works, but we have a table and manual testing for that too :) Aug 24 12:22
wwoods | so possibly the test matrix just lacks boxes for the test cases from the rawhide test plan Aug 24 12:23
jlaska | wwoods: oh that's right Aug 24 12:23
adamw | Oxf13: the idea being that we write one :) it could just be 3x1, heh Aug 24 12:23
adamw | wwoods: the current matrix is specifically labelled an _install_ test matrix iirc Aug 24 12:23
wwoods | and also https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Rawhide_Acceptance_Test_Plan#Basic_Functionality Aug 24 12:23
jlaska | adamw: for installer ... we have a few tests to confirm that if something does break ... the methods of recovery function (updates= and rescue-mode) Aug 24 12:23
wwoods | right but the install test plan is predicated on QA accepting the bits for testing at all Aug 24 12:23
jlaska | adamw: is that worth noting for Xorg too (re: vesa, nomodeset) Aug 24 12:24
wwoods | which is what the acceptance test plan is supposed to decide Aug 24 12:24
wwoods | anyway without getting too deep into the meanings of Acceptance Testing and other overly-formal QA junk Aug 24 12:24
wwoods | the stuff from the rawhide acceptance test plan needs to be considered part of (or a prerequisite to) the installer plan Aug 24 12:25
jlaska | wwoods: good point Aug 24 12:25
wwoods | and thus needs a test result matrix of its own (or spaces in the installer matrix) Aug 24 12:25
adamw | doing it that way is fine by me Aug 24 12:26
wwoods | and actually the israwhidebroken.com plan involves having a place for manual test results for that specific test Aug 24 12:26
wwoods | but yeah, the installer plan needs to have a note that says "see also these results over here"... once we're properly collecting those results. Aug 24 12:26
jlaska | wwoods: that's something to consider ... if we don't have that bit in place yet ... perhaps having some stop-gap on the wiki for the beta would be acceptable? Aug 24 12:26
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Fedora_12_Test_Results Aug 24 12:27
jlaska | anchored under ^^^ or a sub-category of that Aug 24 12:27
jlaska | okay ... any other points to note about the Alpha Aug 24 12:27
jlaska | Good/bad/ugly? Aug 24 12:27
jlaska | #action jlaska to talk with Liam about how we can make the current install test plan more attainable Aug 24 12:28
jlaska | any other items to capture on this topic? Aug 24 12:28
adamw | nothing from me Aug 24 12:29
jlaska | #action include a xorg-x11-drv matrix in F-12-Beta test matrix for nouveau, intel and radeon Aug 24 12:29
jlaska | #topic autoqa update from wwoods Aug 24 12:30
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: autoqa update from wwoods (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:30
jlaska | alrighty ... wwoods I've got the always present slot in the meeting for any updates or help needed on the autoqa front Aug 24 12:30
wwoods | okay so.. the autoqa stuff is still happening automatically. whee! Aug 24 12:30
jlaska | yeah, holy emails batman! :) Aug 24 12:31
wwoods | I fixed up the conflicts test - it was doing Obsoletes and Conflicts wrong, and taking 5 hours to run Aug 24 12:31
wwoods | cleaned up the email subjects too, so it's a lot easier to figure out the results Aug 24 12:31
wwoods | e.g. "repoclosure: 34 packages with unresolved deps in rawhide-x86_64" Aug 24 12:31
jlaska | wwoods: that conflicts change seems to have done the trick Aug 24 12:32
Oxf13 | yeah that's good stuff Aug 24 12:32
Oxf13 | next we need somebody to start consuming that info (: Aug 24 12:32
wwoods | the rats_* tests were broken over the weekend but I've (mostly) fixed them Aug 24 12:32
Oxf13 | but we're getting there Aug 24 12:32
wwoods | rats_install seems to take a lot longer than it should Aug 24 12:32
wwoods | and rats_sanity mysteriously does not work on i386 rawhide Aug 24 12:33
jlaska | wwoods: I'm waiting on a PXE change for that new kms SDV workstation ... will add it to autotest once I hear back Aug 24 12:33
wwoods | might be a yum bug, I need to talk to skvidal Aug 24 12:33
* | skvidal looks up Aug 24 12:33
wwoods | anyway, I rewrote the option-parsing code in the autoqa harness to be more sane (i.e. not hardcoding hook-specific code in the main harness) Aug 24 12:33
wwoods | merged the autotest branch into master Aug 24 12:34
wwoods | and this week I'll mostly be documenting how to write new tests and implement new hooks Aug 24 12:34
--- | onekopaka_away is now known as onekopaka Aug 24 12:34
wwoods | and trying to figure out how we can get other automated systems to consume the test results Aug 24 12:34
Oxf13 | wwoods: a new autotest was released upstream, and I think it includes support for django 1 Aug 24 12:34
Oxf13 | when would be a good time to update to the new version and throw it at you? Aug 24 12:34
wwoods | Oh nice - is that what we have in Fedora, then? Aug 24 12:35
wwoods | jlaska: do we have a spare system / capacity for a virt guest to try that out on? Aug 24 12:35
jlaska | wwoods: we could do a spare guest Aug 24 12:35
Oxf13 | we don't have the new autotest anywhere Aug 24 12:35
dpravec | i can test it Aug 24 12:35
jlaska | Oxf13: might be a good time to check back in on the packaging Aug 24 12:35
Oxf13 | but django 1 is what we have in Fedora Aug 24 12:35
jlaska | Oxf13: once we're good on the packaging, I'm going to setup qa1 Aug 24 12:35
Oxf13 | ok Aug 24 12:35
dpravec | 1.1 is imho actual django release Aug 24 12:35
jlaska | Oxf13: last we left it ... the packaging was fairly solid Aug 24 12:36
Oxf13 | jlaska: indeed, I think it got reviewed and approved Aug 24 12:36
jlaska | awesome, thanks for pushing on that front Aug 24 12:36
Oxf13 | or would be as soon as we figure out the stupid google web toolkit crap Aug 24 12:36
dpravec | Oxf13: so, please package it rather soon Aug 24 12:37
Oxf13 | dpravec: I can't until gwt is figured out Aug 24 12:37
jlaska | Oxf13: this is for Fedora you mean? Aug 24 12:37
Oxf13 | right, for Fedora Aug 24 12:37
jlaska | and not just the fedora-infra repor Aug 24 12:38
Oxf13 | I can do a new build of the new version Aug 24 12:38
Oxf13 | and get it into the infra Aug 24 12:38
jlaska | worth a shot ... and wwoods and I will test that out Aug 24 12:38
Oxf13 | nod Aug 24 12:38
dpravec | i can test too Aug 24 12:38
Oxf13 | I'll put that on this week's to do list Aug 24 12:38
jlaska | #action f13 updated autotest-0.11 build Aug 24 12:38
Oxf13 | #action Oxf13 will do a build of the new autotest version for testing. Aug 24 12:38
adamw | so, a question: aren't we now at the point where we could actually create the much-vaunted israwhidebroken.com ? Aug 24 12:38
jlaska | #action jlaska + wwoods to test latest autotest build Aug 24 12:39
dpravec | adamw: soon, soon :) Aug 24 12:39
adamw | wwoods: is that on your schedule? it seems like the necessary tests for it to happen are now in place and running Aug 24 12:39
adamw | (which is awesome) Aug 24 12:39
wwoods | adamw: close. we need a way to pull/push data from autotest to fill in the boxes for the automated parts Aug 24 12:40
adamw | i see Aug 24 12:40
wwoods | and then we need an (authenticated) way for qa team people to fill in the boxes for unautomated bits (e.g. Xorg) Aug 24 12:40
adamw | i think we could start doing the page even without that bit and add it on later Aug 24 12:41
wwoods | so as I said earlier, the two big items I have for this week are to look into that (pulling/pushing data from autotest for e.g. israwhidebroken.com) Aug 24 12:41
adamw | just whether the automated tests pass or not on a given day is useful enough in its own right Aug 24 12:42
dpravec | yes Aug 24 12:42
wwoods | and writing docs so petr / dpravec / et. al. can get their hands dirty designing new tests/hooks, like Fedora TPS and such Aug 24 12:42
adamw | gotcha Aug 24 12:42
jlaska | whole lotta bootstrapin' going on Aug 24 12:42
wwoods | we already have daily automated results on the autoqa-results list Aug 24 12:42
wwoods | that's the stopgap until the other bits get glued together Aug 24 12:43
adamw | brb, call of nature - i do have an open floor topic so don't stop without me :) Aug 24 12:43
jlaska | wwoods: awesome work, thanks for the updates! Aug 24 12:43
jlaska | adamw: okay Aug 24 12:43
jlaska | wwoods: any other points ... or should we move on? Aug 24 12:44
wwoods | jlaska: thanks, and no problem Aug 24 12:44
jlaska | alrighty ... moving on to next topic ... Aug 24 12:44
jlaska | #topic Test Day updates - fedora-test-announce? Aug 24 12:45
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Test Day updates - fedora-test-announce? (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:45
jlaska | dpravec you mentioned this the week prior, but I neglected to add it to the agenda Aug 24 12:45
dpravec | i heard people telling me that they would love to participate some test days Aug 24 12:46
dpravec | but they do not read many maillists Aug 24 12:46
dpravec | for example one said he reads only fedora-announce Aug 24 12:46
dpravec | and others only ocassionally Aug 24 12:46
adamw | i do announce them also on fedora planet and the forums Aug 24 12:46
adamw | they're really not important enough to go to fedora-announce Aug 24 12:46
dpravec | and we cannot announce tests on fedora-announce Aug 24 12:46
jlaska | btw ... this is a topic that comes up a lot ... Aug 24 12:46
jlaska | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Test_Day_Survey#Advertising Aug 24 12:46
dpravec | so it makes sense to make list fedora-test-announce Aug 24 12:47
dpravec | for people who would like to test some things Aug 24 12:47
adamw | ones with a wider interest we sometimes promote to news sites, but we can't do that for ones which are really of interest specifically to fedora Aug 24 12:47
dpravec | and who do not want to miss fav app test day Aug 24 12:47
dpravec | but who do not want much traffic Aug 24 12:47
dpravec | so i think we should create and use maillist fedora-test-announce Aug 24 12:47
dpravec | which will be used only for announcing test days Aug 24 12:48
adamw | not a bad idea... Aug 24 12:48
adamw | well, we could announce other things there too Aug 24 12:48
Oxf13 | Would it make sense to just re-use fedora-devel-announce ? Aug 24 12:48
dpravec | yes, just low traffic one Aug 24 12:48
adamw | test composes, alpha slips Aug 24 12:48
Oxf13 | I'm never really in favor of more mailing lists Aug 24 12:48
adamw | Oxf13: i think there might be value in a separate list Aug 24 12:48
dpravec | fedora-devel-announce is for developers Aug 24 12:48
jlaska | Oxf13: it was requested I stop posting test days to fedora-devel-announce during F11 Aug 24 12:48
tk009 | agree with 0xf13 Aug 24 12:48
dpravec | test could be for endusers Aug 24 12:48
Oxf13 | *shrug* Aug 24 12:49
jlaska | Oxf13: yeah :) Aug 24 12:49
Oxf13 | just make sure to do the same thing and subscribe fedora-test-list to fedora-test-announce Aug 24 12:49
Oxf13 | so that those of us on the rather quiet fedora-test-list can still get the announcements. Aug 24 12:49
jlaska | Oxf13: ah good point Aug 24 12:49
jlaska | fedoraproject.org has it's own mailman now right? Aug 24 12:50
Oxf13 | yeah Aug 24 12:50
Oxf13 | lists.fedoraproject.org Aug 24 12:50
jlaska | dpravec: do you want to handle creating the list or looking for someone else to grab that? Aug 24 12:50
dpravec | hmm can i create it? Aug 24 12:50
jlaska | I think you can request one ... https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo Aug 24 12:51
dpravec | i think i am not an admin of the mailman Aug 24 12:51
dpravec | ok Aug 24 12:51
Oxf13 | you can file the ticket to get a new one (: Aug 24 12:51
dpravec | i will do it Aug 24 12:51
jlaska | Oxf13: ah thanks Aug 24 12:51
dpravec | ticket? where? Aug 24 12:51
jlaska | dpravec: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/report Aug 24 12:51
jlaska | perhaps try there? Aug 24 12:52
dpravec | ok Aug 24 12:52
jlaska | dpravec: nice suggestion, thank you! Aug 24 12:52
jlaska | #action dpravec to investigate creating fedora-test-announce mailing list for Test Days, other test events, schedule updates Aug 24 12:52
jlaska | okay next up ... Aug 24 12:52
jlaska | #topic Test Day updates - fit'n'finish printing Aug 24 12:53
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Test Day updates - fit'n'finish printing (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:53
jlaska | just real quick here ... I didn't see how this event went Aug 24 12:53
jlaska | has anyone had a chance to chat w/ mclasen? Aug 24 12:53
Oxf13 | not about this Aug 24 12:53
adamw | me either, but i was around for some of the day, seemed to be going well Aug 24 12:54
adamw | mostly 'internal' - the fnf guys and the printing guys - but a few other testers did drop by Aug 24 12:54
jlaska | adamw: okay ... I'm hoping the format is still working to his benefit Aug 24 12:54
jlaska | #topic Test Day updates - ABRT Aug 24 12:55
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Test Day updates - ABRT (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:55
jlaska | another recap from last week Aug 24 12:55
jlaska | thanks dpravec and kparal for your efforts! Aug 24 12:55
jlaska | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-August/msg00609.html Aug 24 12:55
dpravec | it was a pleasure. Aug 24 12:56
jlaska | jmoskovc was quite pleased with the feedback this time Aug 24 12:56
dpravec | you are welcome :) Aug 24 12:56
jlaska | okay ... now for this weeks event ... Aug 24 12:56
adamw | good job on the post-report email too Aug 24 12:56
adamw | er, post-event email report :) Aug 24 12:56
jlaska | +1 Aug 24 12:56
dpravec | ty adamw... btw your script worked Aug 24 12:57
dpravec | but maybe , if i can Aug 24 12:57
jlaska | #topic Test Day updates - 2009-08-27 Dracut Aug 24 12:57
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Test Day updates - 2009-08-27 Dracut (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 12:57
adamw | don't dignify it with the name 'script' =) Aug 24 12:57
jlaska | dpravec: adamw is l33t Aug 24 12:57
dpravec | uff, so later in open arena Aug 24 12:57
adamw | you could turn it into one quite easily, so you could feed it a date and it'd grab the page without you having to bother Aug 24 12:57
adamw | i'm just too lazy to do it Aug 24 12:57
dpravec | jlaska: i can has script too Aug 24 12:58
jlaska | just a quick update on the dracut test day ... Aug 24 12:58
jlaska | #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-08-27#Test Aug 24 12:58
jlaska | the 3 core test cases are already defined ... and I'm trying to organize the remaining data points harald wants feedback on around those Aug 24 12:59
jlaska | e.g. the different root= scenarios Aug 24 12:59
jlaska | hopefully will have a fair bit of that done this afternoon and ready for announce Aug 24 12:59
jlaska | if anyone has ideas or suggestions for improvement ... feel free to ping me after the meeting Aug 24 12:59
jlaska | the big thing is that harald just wants people to show up and either boot their F-11 systems using dracut ... or boot the live image ... and report back Aug 24 13:00
jlaska | #action jlaska will cleanup remaining test cases for dracut and send announcement Aug 24 13:00
jlaska | okay ... let's move on to open discussion ... Aug 24 13:01
jlaska | #topic open discussion - <your topic here> Aug 24 13:01
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: open discussion - <your topic here> (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 13:01
adamw | alright, quickly: Aug 24 13:01
jlaska | adamw: go for it Aug 24 13:01
adamw | #topic nightly live builds Aug 24 13:01
adamw | grr, i have no power! you do it :) Aug 24 13:01
jlaska | #chair adamw Aug 24 13:01
zodbot | Current chairs: adamw jlaska Aug 24 13:01
adamw | #topic open discussion - nightly live builds Aug 24 13:01
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: open discussion - nightly live builds (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 13:01
adamw | i think the nightly live builds are awesome and need to be widely heralded Aug 24 13:02
jlaska | excellent point Aug 24 13:02
* | nirik looks up. Aug 24 13:02
* | jlaska prepares the trumpet Aug 24 13:02
adamw | so i added a chunk to the rawhide wiki page about them - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide#Nightly_live_builds - and am going to try and spread the news to some news sites Aug 24 13:02
adamw | nirik: you rock! Aug 24 13:02
nirik | yeah, I haven't had time to do anything there. If someone wants to advertise, please feel free. ;) Aug 24 13:02
adamw | what would be great is if others could spread the word too Aug 24 13:02
adamw | if you blog, blog about it (you can just link to my blog post which will go up soon, or the wiki page, or whatever) Aug 24 13:02
adamw | tweetie-pie it Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | please be aware Aug 24 13:03
adamw | mention it on appropriate mailing lists or whatever Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | the more people you point at th enightly builds, the less people are going to be able to download them Aug 24 13:03
adamw | just want to make sure we have the word out about it Aug 24 13:03
kparal | how is it possible that it has x86_64 build when there is no x86_64 packages in rawhide repositories available in the last few days? Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | they are not mirrored, so this is a single point of resources Aug 24 13:03
adamw | Oxf13: if we start hitting capacity problems, we can try and provide more download resources Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | kparal: pardon? Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | adamw: that box is almost always at capacity Aug 24 13:03
Oxf13 | continuing to point large amounts of people to a single download source for large isos is just doing it wrong. Aug 24 13:04
kparal | Oxf13: maybe our local brno mirror problem, but for the last few days in rawhide repo there is only i386 stuff Aug 24 13:04
jlaska | Oxf13: adamw: mmcgrath has been helping to monitor any access issues for the stage url ... this is on the same box right? Aug 24 13:04
Oxf13 | jlaska: yes, same box Aug 24 13:04
adamw | Oxf13: i don't think there's much point in having nightly builds but not telling anyone about them because we don't have the capacity to serve them Aug 24 13:04
Oxf13 | I think. Aug 24 13:04
Oxf13 | nirik: the isos are being put on secondary1 right? Aug 24 13:04
adamw | it's just a waste of generation time if we're going to have to 'hide' them like that... Aug 24 13:04
nirik | Oxf13: yep. Aug 24 13:04
Oxf13 | adamw: ti's the classic live problem Aug 24 13:04
Oxf13 | A) they're big. B) they don't rsync well against older isos Aug 24 13:04
* | nirik doesn't know the solution here, but is happy to do whatever he can to make them more accessable. Aug 24 13:04
nirik | would deltaisos help any? Aug 24 13:05
Oxf13 | adamw: it's not a waste of generating them when automated tests can be ran on them, discovering things like size changes, package listing changes, etc... Aug 24 13:05
Oxf13 | nirik: no Aug 24 13:05
Oxf13 | nirik: live images are just an iso of one big squashfs file Aug 24 13:05
nirik | yeah. I haven't looked at how deltaisos work or if they would do any good here. Aug 24 13:05
dpravec | kparal: i see 1260 packages on nfs... Aug 24 13:05
adamw | Oxf13: well, to put it less negatively: there is a considerable potential benefit in having them widely available and it would be a shame to lose that due to resource issues which ought to be solveable Aug 24 13:05
dpravec | s/1260/18260/ Aug 24 13:06
jlaska | let's keep on using them ... and if we start to have problems getting them ... we can escalate with the infrastructure team Aug 24 13:06
nirik | so whats the solution? mirror them? Aug 24 13:06
Oxf13 | adamw: so I question this Aug 24 13:06
Oxf13 | adamw: what added benefit over rawhide do the live images have Aug 24 13:06
dpravec | aha, those are 08-19 Aug 24 13:06
adamw | Oxf13: testable without installing Aug 24 13:06
Oxf13 | that would be worth the resource costs to provide them on a single download source Aug 24 13:06
adamw | that's big enough all on its own Aug 24 13:06
Oxf13 | adamw: every single day? Aug 24 13:07
Oxf13 | would not weekly provide the same value? Aug 24 13:07
adamw | every day is good. weekly would work nearly as well. Aug 24 13:07
Oxf13 | (you know, like the weekly snapshots we're going to be doing, and putting on torrents) Aug 24 13:07
adamw | if weekly push is sufficient to address the bandwidth issue it's a compromise i could live with. Aug 24 13:07
adamw | i was not aware of the weekly torrent plan. where's that documented? Aug 24 13:07
* | nirik doesn't care about weekly, but it was just easier to push them everytime they were composed. Aug 24 13:07
jlaska | nightly live images might be a future benefit wecan offer for QA group membership Aug 24 13:07
Oxf13 | adamw: snapshot 1,2,3 have been in the schedule since the beginning Aug 24 13:08
Oxf13 | which are snapshots during the weeks between Alpha and Beta Aug 24 13:08
Oxf13 | the big motivation for having nightly live images was to track issues with composing Aug 24 13:09
jlaska | let's wrap up this topic ... Aug 24 13:09
* | dpravec is having #topic bugzilla testday + testcase Aug 24 13:09
Oxf13 | mainly size changes and new dep issues Aug 24 13:09
jlaska | does someone want to propose a different delivery mechanism for the live images? Aug 24 13:09
adamw | Oxf13: that's not really the same thing. it's only happening at a specific point in the cycle Aug 24 13:09
adamw | we didn't do weekly images pre-alpha, the schedule doesn't show them post-beta either Aug 24 13:09
adamw | unless it's changing for f13, if you look at the f12 cycle, from the start of f12 development until the first alpha test compose, there's no live image build scheduled Aug 24 13:09
Oxf13 | adamw: that's because the rate of change then is supposed to be small, so using the last point release and yum updating will get you the same state Aug 24 13:10
dpravec | jlaska: iam all for bittorent... Aug 24 13:10
dpravec | but thats not useable in some companie Aug 24 13:10
adamw | Oxf13: which you can't do live, practically speaking. Aug 24 13:10
Oxf13 | excuse me? Aug 24 13:10
Oxf13 | you most certainly can Aug 24 13:10
jlaska | okay gang Aug 24 13:10
adamw | Oxf13: not if you need to test a kernel update... Aug 24 13:10
Oxf13 | outside of say the kernel Aug 24 13:10
adamw | =) Aug 24 13:10
adamw | (or, practically speaking, udev) Aug 24 13:10
Oxf13 | which at this point really shouldn't be changing Aug 24 13:10
Oxf13 | or that point I should say Aug 24 13:10
adamw | and pre-alpha? Aug 24 13:11
Oxf13 | pre-alpha you're going to be lucky to get a working live image one a week, let alone once a day Aug 24 13:11
dpravec | heh, true Aug 24 13:11
Oxf13 | my point is that it's a giant waste of resources Aug 24 13:11
Oxf13 | for some benefit, but at a huge cost Aug 24 13:11
jlaska | Oxf13: whose resources are they? Aug 24 13:12
Oxf13 | we should be aware of the costs here and not just shrug and say "eh, we'll fix it whenever infra runs out of bits" Aug 24 13:12
jlaska | Oxf13: is this infrastructure team? Aug 24 13:12
Oxf13 | jlaska: bandwidth and disk IO Aug 24 13:12
jlaska | Oxf13: sorry, I meant who manages this and is responsible for it Aug 24 13:12
Oxf13 | as well as tester bandwidth thinking they need to download a new live image every day Aug 24 13:12
Oxf13 | Infrastructure is ultimately responsible Aug 24 13:13
jlaska | then lets talk to the experts so they can work up a solution or advise that this isn't doable with current resources? Aug 24 13:13
jlaska | I'll be happy to take this for next week ... unless someone else would like it? Aug 24 13:14
Oxf13 | yes, we should talk to them Aug 24 13:14
Oxf13 | but they really are too nice, they'll just let you consume everything they have (: Aug 24 13:14
jlaska | Oxf13: no ... last we discussed, they identified a threshold for bandwith for the RC images Aug 24 13:14
jlaska | and we talked about some possible next steps Aug 24 13:14
jlaska | #action jlaska to discuss bandwith implications of hosting nightly rawhide live images with fedora-infrastructure Aug 24 13:15
jlaska | #chair dpravec Aug 24 13:15
zodbot | Current chairs: adamw dpravec jlaska Aug 24 13:15
jlaska | dpravec: did you have a topic to discuss? Aug 24 13:15
dpravec | my next topic is related to bugzilla and test days Aug 24 13:16
jlaska | #topic open discussion - bugzilla and test days (dpravec) Aug 24 13:16
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: open discussion - bugzilla and test days (dpravec) (Meeting topic: Fedora QA Meeting) Aug 24 13:16
dpravec | we need to get rid of tables with bug descriptions and links to bugzilla Aug 24 13:16
dpravec | do not repeat yourself (DRY) is important principle to be kept Aug 24 13:16
dpravec | it would be best to have own fields in bugzilla Aug 24 13:16
dpravec | TestCase and TestDay Aug 24 13:17
dpravec | which can be prefilled when you click near testace on 'report bug on this testcase' Aug 24 13:17
dpravec | so we can have everything live in bugzilla Aug 24 13:17
dpravec | i am not sure how to achieve this... but i would love to stop writing bugz into tables in wiki Aug 24 13:17
adamw | as i said when we discussed this before, we do have a results table layout for test days which is not a simple list of bugs Aug 24 13:18
dpravec | adamw: testcase could be a field Aug 24 13:18
dpravec | so you can get nice table from bugzilla Aug 24 13:18
dpravec | at least if i imagine it right Aug 24 13:18
dpravec | i am not using it for long Aug 24 13:18
dpravec | so i need help there Aug 24 13:18
adamw | see e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2009-03-26_Nouveau#Results Aug 24 13:18
adamw | i think that may be possible _in theory_ but in practice would be rather complex... Aug 24 13:18
adamw | for a start we try to avoid non-trivial bugzilla customizations wherever possible Aug 24 13:19
jlaska | and bugzilla itself is fairly stand-off-ish for noobs Aug 24 13:19
adamw | you could have TestDay and TestCase keywords, but they have to be added to Bugzilla itself and i imagine it'd be a pain for the bz admins to do that every week Aug 24 13:19
dpravec | yes, but that is my another topic :) Aug 24 13:19
dpravec | (noobs x bugzilla) Aug 24 13:19
adamw | you could (ab)use the whiteboard space, but i'm not sure that can be pre-filled in a 'file a bug' link Aug 24 13:19
adamw | have to test that Aug 24 13:19
dpravec | we need to look out for solution Aug 24 13:20
adamw | there's also the rather tricky case that defining pass/fail is somewhat subjective and best left to humans Aug 24 13:20
jlaska | I think it's important to note that the wiki is our interim solution Aug 24 13:20
adamw | sometimes a human can see quite easily that a test _basically_ passed but there's a little problem with it Aug 24 13:20
adamw | so they list the test as a PASS but with a footnote link to a bug report Aug 24 13:20
adamw | it'd be a bit tough to automate that Aug 24 13:20
jlaska | there are other options out there ... and maybe some quick fixes to make the short-term more useful Aug 24 13:20
adamw | yep, that is also important: you mentioned a test case management system, we don't have one yet but we _want_ one :) Aug 24 13:21
dpravec | hmm we need a good test case management system... Aug 24 13:21
wwoods | see also: pony Aug 24 13:21
dpravec | pony? Aug 24 13:21
jlaska | for the sugar on a stick test day ... mchua and sdziallas were intending to demo semantic+mediawiki Aug 24 13:21
adamw | i think there's a good test case management system inside every pony Aug 24 13:21
--- | stickster is now known as stickster_food Aug 24 13:21
* | sdziallas is here, waves. Aug 24 13:22
sdziallas | jlaska: we're going for test cases at the moment... I created a wiki page about the day in general, but it still needs a lot of content from my side. Aug 24 13:22
lmacken | ooo... good liveusb-creator testing can come out of that too :) Aug 24 13:23
dpravec | pony=? Aug 24 13:23
wwoods | dpravec: heh, like "daddy, I want a pony" - just the standard joke for any time we start talking about things that everyone wants, but nobody actually has the time/money/skill to make it happen Aug 24 13:23
adamw | dpravec: it's a running geek/fedora joke Aug 24 13:23
dpravec | eh :) Aug 24 13:24
adamw | dpravec: the idea being that everyone wants something big and cool and awesome but doesn't think about the work involved in getting it Aug 24 13:24
adamw | thus 'i want a pony!' Aug 24 13:24
wwoods | http://i-want-a-pony.com/ Aug 24 13:24
dpravec | ok, i will start thinking how to acquire a pony for you :) Aug 24 13:24
jlaska | wwoods: awesome! Aug 24 13:24
nanonyme | Ponies mentioned. :) Aug 24 13:24
jlaska | dpravec: I'm always interested in simple improvements to the current wiki experience Aug 24 13:25
dpravec | oh i think i have seen it on some django presentation :) Aug 24 13:25
jlaska | dpravec: yeah, that's not available to us yet Aug 24 13:25
dpravec | hey but this can be easy Aug 24 13:25
dpravec | we do not need an elephant Aug 24 13:25
lmacken | dpravec: that's because django is the webframework for magical ponies with super powers :) Aug 24 13:26
adamw | dpravec: as jlaska said, if you can suggest a practical fairly easy change to the current wiki system, we're all ears - there's nothing set in stone about it, it's just something i bashed out a few months ago :) Aug 24 13:26
dpravec | i will try to some people about it and next week i will tell you if i can get a pony Aug 24 13:26
--- | hanthana_ is now known as hanthana Aug 24 13:26
dpravec | to talk* Aug 24 13:26
jlaska | okay ... let's wrap things up for today Aug 24 13:26
jlaska | jlaska bot self destructs after a 1.5 hour meeting Aug 24 13:27
dpravec | i love animals :) Aug 24 13:27
jlaska | dpravec: haha Aug 24 13:27
jlaska | okay gang ... anything else that can be said in 30 seconds ? Aug 24 13:27
dpravec | i will keep that for next week :) Aug 24 13:28
adamw | i hate gigabyte! Aug 24 13:28
adamw | sorry, needed to get that out of my system =) Aug 24 13:28
nanonyme | Btw, one question: how much locked up is Rawhide atm? Kernel driver features put on freeze? Aug 24 13:28
jlaska | nanonyme: I believe the flood gates are open again Aug 24 13:28
wwoods | not for features Aug 24 13:28
wwoods | just for builds Aug 24 13:28
jlaska | nanonyme: yes, as wwoods said Aug 24 13:28
nanonyme | Right... Aug 24 13:28
* | nirik upgraded his laptop to rawhide this weekend. Went very smoothly. Aug 24 13:29
jlaska | 40 seconds till detonation ... Aug 24 13:29
* | dpravec upgraded to testing, with kde 3.0 Aug 24 13:29
nanonyme | Just wondering if KMS parts or 3D parts of DRM for new ATi cards would get into the release. Probably not? Aug 24 13:29
dpravec | eh 4.3.x Aug 24 13:29
adamw | nanonyme: they're probably in there already, fedora kernel runs ahead of upstream in that respect. Aug 24 13:29
dpravec | jlaska: happy post-detonation :) Aug 24 13:30
adamw | nanonyme: if not yet they almost certainly will be, graphics stuff is generally pushed in quite late, right up to beta freeze. Aug 24 13:30
adamw | nanonyme: i believe kms for later radeons has been in for a while but is disabled by default for safety, you can force radeon.modeset=1 to test it. not sure if that's changing for f12, have to check with airlied. Aug 24 13:30
nanonyme | adamw: 3D parts are in one developer's own DRM git tree, current KMS parts are just getting looked through by airlied. Aug 24 13:30
adamw | nanonyme: ok. as i said, graphics stuff generally keeps getting pushed in till quite late, i'd be surprised if they stop updating it now. Aug 24 13:31
jlaska | okay folks ... let's close it out for today Aug 24 13:31
nanonyme | adamw: The thing in Rawhide can't do X atm but I've heard what the developers have is further. Aug 24 13:31
jlaska | we can continue over in #fedora-qa and on the list Aug 24 13:31
nanonyme | Right. Thanks. Aug 24 13:31
jlaska | thanks everyone for your time! Aug 24 13:31
adamw | nanonyme: you can always ask airlied directly if you find him active, he doesn't bite :) Aug 24 13:31
jlaska | #endmeeting Aug 24 13:31
--- | zodbot has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule Aug 24 13:31
zodbot | Meeting ended Mon Aug 24 17:31:56 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . Aug 24 13:31
zodbot | Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-24/fedora-meeting.2009-08-24-15.59.html Aug 24 13:31
zodbot | Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-24/fedora-meeting.2009-08-24-15.59.txt Aug 24 13:31
zodbot | Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-24/fedora-meeting.2009-08-24-15.59.log.html Aug 24 13:32
* | nirik looks over the new meetbot output for any bugs. Aug 24 13:37
--- | stickster_food is now known as stickster Aug 24 13:39
sdziallas | lmacken: sorry, I'm more around now... well, we could put liveusb-creator testing in the test case for creating the usb key. Aug 24 13:39
* | nirik notes that the txt meetbot link should be much cleaner now to post to mailing lists. Aug 24 13:40

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