QA/Meetings/20120227

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (87)
  • j_dulaney (47)
  • kparal (19)
  • tflink (18)
  • jskladan (14)
  • rbergeron (14)
  • brunowolff (12)
  • zodbot (11)
  • nirik (6)
  • nb (3)
  • irejaul (3)
  • dgilmore (3)
  • aeperezt (1)
  • mkrizek (1)
  • Southern_Gentlem (1)
  • pschindl (1)

Agenda

  • Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep
  • Upcoming QA events
  • AutoQA update
  • Open floor

Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep

  • Common bugs for Alpha needs writing
  • livecd-tools update required to fix known bugs writing F17 images
  • re-opening of F17 repos is waiting on EC2 image compose
  • clear confusion over what images must be delivered when, we need to re-open Deliverables SOP idea

Upcoming QA events

  • First Test Day coming up in two weeks on 03-07

AutoQA update

  • rats_install output has been improved

Open floor

Action items

  • adamw to start common bugs page
  • adamw to poke bcl about livecd-tools updates for fixing bugs writing f17
  • brunowolff to ping release engineering about post-freeze update re-opening for f17
  • adamw to dig out the 'deliverables' ticket / action item and get it moving again

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:59
zodbot Meeting started Mon Feb 27 15:59:58 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:59
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:59
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:00
adamw #topic roll call 16:00
adamw call your rolls, people! 16:00
* nirik is lurking. 16:00
* kparal rolls 16:00
* pschindl is here 16:00
* mkrizek here 16:00
tflink ooh, what rolls can we choose from? 16:00
* adamw calls his roll bob 16:01
adamw before I eat it. 16:01
* jskladan wantz a roll with goat cheese and beef ham 16:01
tflink jskladan: beef ham? Isn't that an oxymoron? 16:01
adamw unless...it's a beefy miracle 16:01
tflink it all makes sense now ... 16:02
* brunowolff is lurking for the first 1/2 hour, then I have a work meeting. 16:02
* Southern_Gentlem sitting in my rocking chair with rollers (so i can rock and roll) 16:02
adamw hey everyone, let's keep talking nonsense about rolls for the first half hour 16:02
tflink so we can have an even longer meeting? 16:02
adamw and so bruno misses it 16:03
jskladan tflink: http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/215780949/Smoked_Beef_Ham.html 16:03
brunowolff Thta's better than being fired. 16:03
adamw with a name like Delicious Food Industries, how can you go wrong. 16:03
jskladan hehe 16:03
brunowolff From both work and QA. 16:04
tflink jskladan: huh, you learn something new every day 16:04
adamw at last! the meeting is useful! 16:04
adamw #chair jskladan 16:04
zodbot Current chairs: adamw jskladan 16:04
adamw .fire adamw 16:04
zodbot adamw fires adamw 16:04
adamw i'm outta here 16:04
jskladan ok, I call anarchy time! 16:05
adamw  :P 16:05
jskladan #topic previous meeting follow up 16:05
adamw aaaaaaand you fell right into the bear trap 16:05
adamw THERE IS NO PREVIOUS MEETING FOLLOW-UP 16:06
jskladan #info adamw is in denial about previous meeting! 16:06
jskladan moving on then :) 16:06
adamw heheh 16:06
adamw we had no action items from last week 16:06
adamw so i just left it out 16:06
jskladan #topic Fedora 17 Alpha wrap-up and Beta prep 16:07
jskladan IIRC F17 was declared gold on Feb 22 16:07
adamw soo, we signed off on alpha. i was probably drunk or something. 16:07
adamw also, my birthday 16:07
kparal that explains being drunk 16:08
tflink we signed off on your birthday? 16:08
adamw i think so? 16:08
kparal you're not sure? 16:08
tflink someone is spending a bit too much time with processes 16:08
adamw we definitely need to get common bugs done, cos this thing is riddled with them 16:08
j_dulaney Sorry I'm late 16:08
j_dulaney class ran over 16:08
jskladan #chair j_dulaney 16:08
zodbot Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan 16:08
j_dulaney What did I miss wrap-up wise? 16:09
adamw nothing 16:09
adamw so yeah, since we have that kernel slowdown bug, and sound not working, and the installer blowing up if you have any other distro installed... 16:09
tflink rolls 16:09
adamw i'll start off the common bugs page today, if anyone else wants to throw in some contributions that'd be great. 16:10
brunowolff Sound works at least sometimes as I am listening to music on F17 right now. 16:10
j_dulaney Sound not working = why I have not upgraded bare metal to F17 yet 16:10
* j_dulaney needs his Bach 16:10
adamw j_dulaney: it's incredibly easy to work around, you just cut a bit out of pulseaudio's config or install consolekit. 16:11
adamw but explaining that is of course why we need the common bugs page... 16:11
adamw we also need to make sure a livecd-tools update gets karma'ed and pushed for f16 and f15 asap 16:11
adamw i'll poke bcl about that today 16:11
adamw #action adamw to start common bugs page 16:12
j_dulaney adamw: Why does pulse still want consolekit in it's config? 16:12
adamw #action adamw to poke bcl about livecd-tools updates for fixing bugs writing f17 16:12
brunowolff I haven't seen the flood from updates-testing to f17 after goldness. Does releng need to get reminded it's OK for stable updates? 16:12
adamw j_dulaney: because no-one thought to take it out of there, and then when we did, we found PA doesn't compile any more, so we coldn't fix it quickly. 16:12
adamw brunowolff: probably, good point 16:12
j_dulaney Huh 16:12
adamw #action brunowolff to ping release engineering about post-freeze update re-opening for f17 16:13
nirik brunowolff: I was waiting until dgilmore finished testing the ec2 image 16:13
j_dulaney Isn't sound a final criteria? 16:13
nirik if thats done we can start anytime. 16:13
adamw fastest. action item. ever. 16:13
adamw j_dulaney: no, it's a beta one. 16:13
brunowolff OK. 16:13
adamw j_dulaney: happily, we just released alpha, so no problem. :P 16:13
j_dulaney Indeed 16:13
dgilmore ec2 still doesnt boot 16:14
dgilmore brunowolff: maybe we will get updates in the next couple of days 16:14
dgilmore or we will get updates and no ec2 images for alpha 16:14
brunowolff Do ec2 images need to be part of the goldness process? 16:15
adamw we didn't write that SOP yet, so we don't have a good answer. 16:15
adamw there's a 'deliverables' action item zinging around between qa and releng but it hasn't ever got much traction. 16:15
j_dulaney dgilmore: Where are ec2 images dumped? 16:16
brunowolff Otherwise when you push stuff from testing to stable it goes into a black hole. 16:16
adamw #info updates pushes are still not happening because we don't have an ec2 image yet 16:17
brunowolff One possible future state would be to use the empty updates repository to hold stuff on its way from testing to stable. 16:18
rbergeron all updates?? 16:19
adamw f17 updates. 16:19
rbergeron how do those two depend on each other (sorry, i'm less than brainy here) 16:19
brunowolff This would also handle dealing with stable not being rebuilt at the same times as the testing repo. 16:19
adamw rbergeron: if we started updates flowing again, what would dgilmore compose the ec2 images from? 16:19
rbergeron THIN AIR 16:19
rbergeron point taken 16:20
tflink that sounds a little hacky and aren't pre-releases configured to use updates, even though its empty? 16:20
j_dulaney brunowolff: How difficult would that be to impliment? 16:20
brunowolff I am not sure. 16:20
adamw tflink: that would be my concern - it's something we could change, but it involves several moving parts. 16:20
rbergeron what's the cutoff point for when we just say "sorry charlie" ? 16:20
adamw and has consequences up to release time, with the repo configuration question 16:20
adamw rbergeron: that depends on how you feel about charlie. 16:20
j_dulaney Poor Charlie 16:20
tflink he's gone off to the cloud ... 16:21
tflink on to a "better" place :) 16:21
j_dulaney We also have to worry about PXE 16:21
j_dulaney Or is it finally booitng? 16:21
tflink j_dulaney: for beta, no? 16:21
j_dulaney tflink: I think we skipped it for Alpha 16:22
j_dulaney Well, not skipped, per se 16:22
j_dulaney But, didn't require it to boot for Alpha 16:22
jskladan j_dulaney: it is booting, if you provide correct 'extra parameters', which is something i don't really like, but bcl tries to convince me that it's actually OK https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=787744 16:22
adamw right, it's not broken. we can document that. 16:23
j_dulaney Okay 16:23
j_dulaney Still, a NTH to fix that would be great 16:24
rbergeron i don't feel that strongly about charlie. charlie would be nice to have though. /me sighs 16:24
adamw i think it already is fixed, just didn't make alpha. 16:24
j_dulaney adamw: PXE? 16:25
adamw rbergeron: seriously, i dunno the answer to that. isn't it more, er, your department? with either your current hat or your previous one? :) 16:25
adamw j_dulaney: the need for a kernel= parameter in certain boot types in general 16:25
adamw i remember seeing some chat in #anaconda to the effect that it's fixed 16:25
j_dulaney adamw: Ah 16:26
rbergeron ec2 shouldn't be a blocker. not when we don't have criteria, or testing beforehand 16:27
j_dulaney +1 16:27
rbergeron that said: since we aren't discovering this until the time when we need to post it, we should maybe start considering actually doing a test-compose-to-upload-to-ec2 in the future 16:27
rbergeron so that if that process is broken we don't find out ... in this meeting the day before release 16:27
adamw rbergeron: i don't see it as something which should have a criterion - we don't have a 'criterion' that the live image should work, a 'criterion' that the dvd image should work, etc 16:28
brunowolff Time to get fired from QA so I don't get fired from my paying job. See you next week. 16:28
adamw the deliverables aren't specified in the criteria, we should have probably a releng sop for them 16:28
adamw the criteria specify the functions that should work across all supported deliverables. but eh, i'm disappearing up my own process ass here, we can figure it out in post. 16:28
adamw .fire brunowolff 16:28
zodbot adamw fires brunowolff 16:28
j_dulaney .fire brunowolff 16:29
zodbot adamw fires brunowolff 16:29
aeperezt sorry late but here john 16:29
rbergeron there is criteria that things should boot - but do we block if, say, xfce doesn't boot, but gnome does? 16:29
j_dulaney LOL 16:29
nirik not currently. 16:29
nirik gnome and kde are the blocking desktops 16:29
rbergeron (i think, talking out my ass while i'm on the phone in a meeting) 16:29
j_dulaney multitasking much? 16:30
adamw rbergeron: the criteria use the phrase 'supported desktops', and there's a little bit in the preamble which states what those currently are by policy. 16:30
nb FWIW why should kde get special status over XFCE? 16:30
adamw (which is KDE and GNOME) 16:30
rbergeron right. so we could block final if ec2 doesn't boot, but ... not alpha? /me is just brainstorming, but i think we just need a decision here and i i think it's just "sorry charlie, no alpha" 16:30
nb me can see gnome, since it is default, butn ot kde 16:30
rbergeron nb: would you like to hold pandora's box so you can peer into it as deeply as possible? 16:31
adamw nb: it always has and so it continues to. it just is considered to be supported while the others aren't. that can always change, but the decision wouldn't come from us. 16:31
j_dulaney nb: Do we block on Fluxbox? 16:31
nirik nb: historical reasons. 16:31
j_dulaney nb: If you want to change that, poke the Board 16:31
nb ok 16:31
rbergeron dgilmore: can we not back out changes to last known working appliance-tools, rebuild it, and try that? 16:32
adamw anyway, it seems like the takeaway here is clearly that we're lacking policy/process for deliverables: what they are, and how hard we try to deliver the ones that aren't required at any point, when we stop trying, etc 16:33
adamw so we need to renew that ticket, wherever it is, and get that done 16:33
adamw #action adamw to dig out the 'deliverables' ticket / action item and get it moving again 16:34
j_dulaney How much of that is FeSCO, how much releng, and how much us? 16:34
adamw hand wavey! 16:34
adamw i think it's one of those things where it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. 16:34
j_dulaney Does that mean I can wave my hands and make it go awaY? 16:34
adamw if only. 16:35
adamw i think we'd best move on and keep discussing this elsewhere, it's getting a bit freeform 16:35
adamw #topic Upcoming QA events 16:35
adamw we get back into blocker reviews this week, so everyone set aside your friday... 16:36
j_dulaney Yay ... 16:36
tflink wheee! 16:37
j_dulaney What is todays date? 16:37
adamw we also have 'Pre-Beta Acceptance Test Plan' on the schedule for two days from now, which seems a) early and b) redundant since rats is now firing daily 16:37
adamw 02-27 16:37
j_dulaney First test day is a week from Thursday 16:37
adamw yup, indeed 16:38
j_dulaney In fact 16:38
adamw okay, so it seems like when we got the schedule modified to bump TC1 earlier, 'acceptance test plan' got moved a week earlier instead of being removed 16:38
adamw rbergeron: the idea was to drop the 'acceptance test plan' points entirely (replace them with TCs), not bump them a week forward 16:38
j_dulaney #info First test day is a week from Thursday; it is 03/07 16:38
adamw alrighty, so yeah, blocker review this friday, first TC next week, first test day also next week. 16:40
adamw i think that's all 16:41
adamw #topic AutoQA update 16:41
adamw #chair tflink 16:41
zodbot Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan tflink 16:41
adamw #chair kparal 16:41
zodbot Current chairs: adamw j_dulaney jskladan kparal tflink 16:41
kparal I have some small update 16:41
adamw take it away, folks. just remember to bring it back before the due date 16:41
kparal first of all I'd like to remind everyone that we're now testing anaconda installation automatically every day 16:41
kparal link is here: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/resultsdb/frontend/search?type=Testcase&terms=rats_install 16:42
kparal there were some complaints about log messages, so I tried to improve that 16:42
kparal at the end of the result log you can now see last 10 lines parsed from serial console output: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/f17-i386.html 16:42
kparal and someone asked last time whether we can add 'newlines' to the following log: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/stage2.log 16:43
j_dulaney Might be a useful feature, that 16:43
adamw yeah, that'd be good. 16:43
irejaul hi 16:43
kparal in short: we can't, because newt is drawing on serial console using escape characters 16:43
kparal so at least I filtered it using 'strings' command: http://autoqa-stg.fedoraproject.org/results/27117-autotest/qa06.qa.fedoraproject.org/rats_install/results/stage2.log_filtered 16:44
kparal so now we should be able to debug potential problems quicker 16:44
irejaul I m Rejaul, Fedora Ambassador Bangldesh 16:45
kparal #info rats_install output has been improved 16:45
kparal that's all I have for today 16:45
irejaul i want to become a mentor of APAC Bangldesh 16:45
j_dulaney kparal: BTW, I was the one asking for newlines 16:46
adamw irejaul: can you please ask in the correct channel? we're in the middle of a QA meeting...sorry 16:46
tflink irejaul: I think you might have the wrong channel or time 16:46
j_dulaney kparal: Much more readable 16:46
j_dulaney kparal: Thanks 16:46
adamw tflink: anything to add for autoqa? 16:49
tflink adamw: nope 16:49
j_dulaney kparal: 16:50
kparal adamw: nope, that's all 16:50
j_dulaney Instead of replacing the author name in tests, just add a maintainer line 16:50
adamw okely dokely 16:50
adamw #topic open floor 16:50
j_dulaney Have both author and maintainer 16:50
adamw i hope everyone enjoyed this exciting and enthralling meeting 16:50
adamw now you can make it even better with your pearls of wisdom! 16:51
j_dulaney adamw: We have wisdom? 16:51
* j_dulaney did not know of this 16:51
kparal j_dulaney: the author credits are still available in all the source files 16:52
j_dulaney kparal: True 16:52
tflink kparal: where is the contact info used, anyways? 16:52
kparal nowhere. it's for our needs only 16:53
kparal let's discuss in #fedora-qa 16:53
tflink works for me 16:54
j_dulaney .fire himself 16:54
zodbot adamw fires himself 16:54
kparal  :) 16:55
tflink hrm, he seems to have disappeared 16:55
adamw holiday! 16:55
* j_dulaney wants to go back to the house, stir up the fire place (which has been going for two days now), sit in front of it and watch anime 16:57
j_dulaney Alas, I've class this afternoon 16:58
jskladan j_dulaney: come on, you have fireplace, and you're going to watch dragon ball? :) 16:58
jskladan ok, I'll do what I wanted to do for a long time now :)) 16:59
jskladan #endmeeting 16:59

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