QA/Meetings/20120910

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Contents

Attendees

  • adamw (200)
  • tflink (194)
  • kparal (74)
  • jreznik (63)
  • nirik (9)
  • zodbot (8)
  • pjones (5)
  • jskladan (4)
  • cpuobsessed (3)
  • maxamillion (3)
  • brunowolff (2)
  • Cerlyn (2)
  • satellit (2)
  • pschindl (2)
  • nb (1)
  • aspratyush (1)
  • jah (1)

Agenda

  • Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review
  • Release criteria revision
  • Open floor

Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review

  • TC6 was out, very close to doing an RC1 but needed a new anaconda build

Blocker/NTH review

  • #855289 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #854471 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #854586 was rejected as a blocker as it only affects more advanced network configurations
  • #855285 was accepted as a blocker for breaking USB installation
  • #854962 was accepted as a blocker for breaking firstboot of installed live systems
  • #855481 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as errors in root password handling are obviously significant
  • #854818 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as Secure Boot support at Alpha is clearly useful to have
  • #855560 was rejected as a blocker as it appears simply to be caused by debugging being enabled in the kernel for Alpha
  • #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
  • #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
  • #855824 was rejected as a blocker due to limited impact: basic graphics mode will work in practice in most important contexts
  • #855784 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #852792 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #855465 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
  • #855470 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
  • #855510 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
  • #855477 was accepted as NTH for obvious visual impact

Release criteria revision

  • Topic was tabled due to time taken by the blocker/nth review

Open floor

N/A

Action items

  • tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289

IRC Log

adamw #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 15:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Sep 10 15:00:19 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
adamw #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
adamw #topic roll call 15:00
adamw morning folks, who's around to chase the f18 unicorn? 15:00
tflink UNICORNS!!!! 15:01
* satellit listening 15:01
* Cerlyn watches 15:02
* brunowolff is lurking for about 20 minutes and then has to go to a work meeting. 15:02
* pschindl is here 15:02
jskladan is it pony unicorn? 15:02
* jreznik is here to chase the snake 15:03
kparal ouch 15:03
* nirik is lurking 15:03
Cerlyn Perhaps those calling it a Spherical Cow have never seen a unicorn before 15:03
adamw eeexcellent 15:03
tflink jreznik: snake? I thought that we were talking about unicorns 15:03
brunowolff jreznik picked a bad release to become the program manager! 15:04
tflink adamw: channeling mr. burns are we? 15:04
* adamw pretends to wait for more people while actually making coffee 15:04
adamw i *always* channel mr burns 15:04
adamw .fire tflink 15:04
zodbot adamw fires tflink 15:04
jreznik tflink: unicorn snake? 15:05
* nb is lurking 15:06
tflink jreznik: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3IBfde2A9L8/TIVUuLrUpRI/AAAAAAAADsQ/trjM02LXkkE/s1600/pony-magic.png ? 15:06
* maxamillion is here 15:07
adamw alrighty, maxamillion's here, we can start! 15:07
adamw =) 15:08
adamw #topic Fedora 18 status check / mini blocker review 15:08
adamw so i was kinda hoping we'd have an rc1 already by today, but no-one was around to do an anaconda build over the weekend 15:08
adamw when we do get the new build, though, it should be in significantly better shape than tc6 15:09
adamw #chair tflink 15:09
zodbot Current chairs: adamw tflink 15:09
jreznik adamw: ok, thanks for info 15:09
adamw go/no-go is on thursday so we need to nail down testing on the next build fast to make sure we can hit the date (finally) 15:09
* cpuobsessed is sitting in the back corner 15:09
adamw that's pretty much it, any other general f18 thoughts? 15:10
jreznik adamw: are anaconda guys working on a new build or poking is needed? 15:10
cpuobsessed bug #845745 15:10
adamw jreznik: haven't checked in with them yet, i only just woke up 15:11
adamw cpuobsessed: what about it? 15:12
cpuobsessed narrowed the breakage between 3.5.0-0.rc0.git6 and git7; so maybe those of us with certain ATI GPUs can start testing again 15:12
adamw okay... 15:13
adamw alright, are we ready for the mini-blocker review? 15:13
maxamillion adamw: fire away captain 15:13
kparal will saying 'no' help? 15:13
adamw fire? where?! where?! abandon shop! 15:14
adamw kparal: absolutely not. 15:14
kparal I thought so 15:14
adamw =) 15:14
maxamillion kparal: was worth a shot ;) 15:14
adamw #topic Fedora 18 - mini blocker review 15:14
adamw over to you, cap'n flink 15:14
adamw (we're all captains on this ship. it's suffering from severe rank inflation.) 15:14
tflink #info 12 Proposed Blockers 15:14
tflink #info 11 Accepted Blockers 15:14
tflink #info 5 Proposed NTH 15:14
tflink #info 5 Accepted NTH 15:14
tflink #topic (855289) Dri files are missing in lorax ( /usr/lib64/dri/foo-dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory ) 15:15
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855289 15:15
tflink #info Proposed Blockers, ON_QA 15:15
adamw this is an icky one, viking is convinced this is causing a showstopper for him, but bcl isn't so sure this is the problem 15:16
adamw no-one else seems to have chipped in yet 15:16
kparal there is one more comment from Marcos 15:17
tflink one other person chimed in, but it sounds like that might have been another instance of #854688 15:17
adamw yeah, if it doesn't happen when you use English, it's not this bug. 15:18
kparal I think I haven't tested TC6 DVD over USB. so I can't really say it doesn't happen to me 15:19
tflink sounds like we might need more information but it's already part of the next lorax build 15:19
adamw i don't think the medium is relevant to the bug 15:19
jreznik yep 15:19
adamw graphics hardware conceivably could be, though 15:19
adamw tflink: the question is whether we pull that lorax build or not 15:19
adamw nothing else needs it - in fact this is the only change in it 15:19
jreznik we can ask them to retest with latest lorac but as bcl is not sure it's cause by missing dri... but... 15:20
adamw jreznik: the problem is you can't really 're-test with latest lorax' 15:20
adamw well, not easily 15:20
adamw you have to build your own install image 15:20
adamw lorax is used in the image compose process 15:20
tflink we could build a test image pretty easily to see if that fixes things 15:20
tflink if viking hasn't done so already 15:20
adamw maybe that'd be best 15:21
jreznik adamw: in next tc/rc? 15:21
adamw viking's usually pretty available so he should be able to test it quickly 15:21
jreznik but of course, sooner better 15:21
tflink #action tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289 15:21
adamw so punt on this till we have results from testing? 15:21
tflink if this does indeed fix what viking was seeing - do we want to accept as a blocker 15:21
tflink  ? 15:21
tflink punt is a better option than a conditional vote, I suppose 15:22
adamw since we have another review on wednesday 15:22
tflink proposed #agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing 15:22
tflink ack/nak/patch? 15:23
jreznik ack as we can't do anything before we have more data... 15:23
kparal ack 15:24
adamw ack 15:24
tflink #agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing 15:24
tflink #topic (854471) anaconda stop at the "Error checking storage configuration" 15:24
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854471 15:24
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 15:24
kparal this is waiting for developer action. but I'm afraid storage.log is missing 15:24
adamw yep :( 15:25
adamw that's the most important log... 15:25
kparal I tried to ping twu but he was already gone. we can put another needinfo there 15:26
tflink proposed #agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available. 15:26
kparal just 2 people reported that they saw this. it has probably very limited scope 15:26
kparal ack 15:26
adamw ack 15:27
jreznik ack 15:27
tflink #agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available. 15:27
tflink #topic (854586) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Configure network dialogue isn't accessible in Anaconda 15:27
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586 15:27
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA 15:27
* tflink needs to leave for a bit 15:28
* adamw will carry on 15:29
adamw so, i think what's been clarified since last week is you likely need a wireless connection to hit this 15:30
adamw oh...or maybe i've got that wrong 15:31
kparal I don't think so. is this the bug where you hit configure and it crashes? no matter whether live or DVD? 15:31
kparal then you can do it with wired networking as well 15:31
* jreznik does not understand the bug 15:31
adamw the reproducer is in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586#c17 15:31
adamw kparal: i'm fairly sure i tested in the last meeting and it didn't crash for me: clicking the configure button resulted in nothing happening, but no crash 15:32
kparal adamw: hmm, you may be right 15:32
adamw i think this may be specific to live images which don't include nm-c-e 15:32
jreznik then for live it's not a bad idea to depend on native DE network manager 15:33
jreznik and disable network spoke 15:33
kparal I still believe it's worth +1 blocker, even it fails just for wifi 15:33
kparal or +1 nth at least 15:33
adamw i'm kinda leaning nth not blocker 15:33
adamw (we already took it as nth) 15:33
adamw but i'd like to be clearer... 15:33
* jreznik is more nth too and with no network spoke in live anaconda solution 15:33
adamw the 'fix' for this in 18.6.6 is "require nm-connection-editor" 15:34
jreznik not sure it makes sense to have live de nm configuration and then nm-c-e one, it's quite confusing but good for alpha I guess 15:35
adamw propose we just leave it as nth since the fix is in 18.6.6 anyhow 15:35
jreznik ok 15:35
kparal fine with me 15:35
adamw propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, this remains NTH and is rejectedblocker 15:36
adamw er 15:36
adamw propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker 15:36
jreznik ack 15:36
kparal ack 15:36
pschindl ack 15:36
adamw #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker 15:37
adamw oh, foo, i don't have tflink's neat script-y thing 15:37
adamw one sec, lemme see if i can find it 15:37
adamw ha ha. 15:38
adamw #topic (855285) "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'addMacros' 15:38
adamw #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855285 15:38
adamw #info Proposed Blockers, MODIFIED 15:38
kparal so what does this break? 15:39
adamw per the description, "fix livecd-to-iso alpha network usb thumbdrives installs" 15:40
kparal but we don't know whether it breaks dd too 15:40
adamw yeah 15:41
* adamw is asking clumens 15:41
* kparal watching 15:41
adamw clumens says "should affect all yum-based installs" 15:42
adamw assuming 'yum-based install' means 'just about anything', sounds +1 blocker-y to me... 15:43
kparal yep 15:43
tflink yeah, isn't everything other than preupgrade yum-based? 15:43
adamw who knows 15:43
adamw hey, you're not here! 15:43
tflink nope, not here 15:43
* jreznik does not see tflink 15:44
adamw propose #agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods" 15:44
adamw tflink: do you have a hideous beard and shades? 15:44
kparal ack 15:45
jreznik any installation that uses yum to install packages, not live 15:45
tflink adamw: I suppose hideous depends on personal taste, but no shades 15:45
tflink why aren't we seeing this outside of USB, though? 15:45
tflink if it affects all yum-based installs, shouldn't it be causing more problems for DVD and netinstall? 15:46
adamw what i want to know is, why am i debating a figment of my imagination? 15:46
kparal adamw: schizofrenia 15:47
tflink it just bugs me that this is supposedly affecting only USB installs 15:48
tflink unless I'm missing something, the scope of this should be much larger than litd or dd 15:48
adamw the code is conditional 15:48
jreznik tflink: if it's all yum based install and yum based means what clumens told at anaconda, yeah, it should have broader scope 15:49
adamw http://www.fpaste.org/NC23/ 15:49
adamw perhaps that 'if...else' is only fulfilled in a USB context 15:49
kparal if not selinux, hmm 15:49
adamw but i really don't want to waste too much time on it... 15:50
adamw since it's in 18.6.6 anyhow 15:50
tflink yeah, it just bugs me that something checking for readability of a fs would only work on USB 15:50
tflink since RO media should still be read-able 15:50
adamw clyde kunkel hit it too (dupe) 15:51
adamw and clumens seemed happy to pull it 15:51
tflink it's a typo fix, though and already in the next build. so like adam said, not worth debating much 15:51
tflink ack 15:51
adamw one more ack? 15:53
jreznik you convinced me, ack 15:54
adamw #agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods" 15:55
adamw are you taking back over, invisible man>? 15:55
tflink either way 15:55
tflink #topic (854962) Installed system messed up with live stuff 15:55
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962 15:55
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA 15:55
tflink it sounds like the issue here is that live install replicates the livecd instead of doing a proper install? 15:56
tflink ie, liveuser autologin, no firstboot, anaconda still present 15:56
jreznik tflink: yep 15:56
adamw i included a very thin blocker rationalization in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962#c12 15:56
adamw you can vote +1 if it convinced you =) 15:56
tflink I'm OK with blocker on this 15:57
tflink +1 15:57
jreznik adamw: my understanding skills are not good enough to understand it :) but I agree, it's a blocker 15:57
jreznik +1 15:57
jreznik it's fixed, just how do we want to pull firstboot into live system/installed live system? 15:58
adamw jreznik: there is a special part of my brain labelled 'convoluted blocker justifications' 15:58
tflink proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases (see Blocker_Bug_FAQ), a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user accoun 15:58
* jreznik tried to read it several time and gave up :) 15:58
tflink proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account" 15:58
kparal ack 15:59
adamw ack 15:59
aspratyush ack 15:59
tflink #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account" 15:59
tflink #topic (855481) Root password is empty after install from live image without completing root pw spoke in anaconda 15:59
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855481 15:59
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, POST 15:59
jreznik tflink: for previous bug, how do we plan to ship firstboot in live? 16:00
tflink jreznik: not sure I follow you - firstboot should be on the lives for install 16:00
adamw jreznik: same way we always have, as a package on the live image? 16:00
adamw jreznik: it's set up not to run when booting live 16:00
* satellit soas live starts firsboot.... 16:01
adamw so this is another one which the criteria don't really cover... 16:02
jreznik tflink: it's not available on tc6 lives, so it's not runned after the bug is fixed... or should the other comps bug fix it? 16:02
adamw we don't have a criterion saying 'root should have a password' :) 16:02
adamw jreznik: probably the comps thing. you can't rely at all on any tc6 package set. 16:02
tflink jreznik: I don't remember where the issue was, but it could be affected by the same thing that wasn't pulling in firstboot earlier 16:03
tflink either spin-kickstarts or comps 16:03
jreznik yep, just raising it as an issue 16:03
jreznik I did not report bug because of tc6 breakage, to be aware only 16:04
jreznik let's move on :) 16:05
adamw so, what do we want to do with 855481? 16:05
adamw it really hits no criteria afaict 16:05
adamw we can make it nth 16:05
adamw propose a criterion 16:05
adamw or take it through the escape hatch 16:05
tflink what did we do about root pw for non-live installs? 16:06
adamw what do you mean? 16:06
tflink didn't we take that as a blocker? 16:07
tflink when you couldn't set root pw on the non-live installs (bringing in the root pw spoke) 16:07
adamw because it made text installs inaccessible 16:07
adamw this doesn't make anything inaccessible, rather the contrary :) 16:08
jreznik adamw: :) 16:08
adamw the result of this bug is a root account you can log into without entering a password 16:08
adamw not a root account you can't log into 16:08
tflink I could go either way on this one, to be honest 16:08
jreznik yep, that's the difference 16:08
jreznik it could be a huge security issue 16:08
tflink probably more towards +1 NTH, -1 blocker though 16:08
adamw i worry that i'm maybe overcontorting on this one 16:08
tflink I can't see blocking release because root pw isn't set on lives 16:09
adamw are we trapped so far inside the criteria that we're at a point where anyone else would look at it and say 'well OBVIOUSLY that should be a blocker'? 16:09
jreznik we should have criteria for this and it should be blocker 16:09
tflink release -> alpha release 16:09
jreznik but now nth is good too 16:09
tflink proposed #agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system 16:10
jreznik adamw: I'd say anyone else would say it's a blocker :) not a good idea to not be aware that your system has no root password and it's accessible from everywhere 16:10
adamw ack, for now 16:10
jreznik ack 16:10
adamw jreznik: yeah, that's what i'm worried about 16:10
* kparal reminds we don't have to have criteria to accept something as a blocker. criteria just helps in contentious issues 16:10
adamw kparal: well, it needs to hit the criteria or the escape clause 16:11
adamw (the one under the criteria) 16:11
kparal we have different opinions then 16:11
kparal nevermind, ack 16:12
tflink #agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system 16:12
tflink #topic (854818) livecd-creator needs secure boot support 16:12
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854818 16:12
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, MODIFIED 16:12
tflink -1 blocker, unsure about NTH 16:12
tflink this seems like a boarderline bad idea to be pulling in so late 16:13
kparal -1 blocker +1 nth 16:13
tflink but the traditional installers already support it 16:13
tflink parity would be nice 16:13
kparal we need to have it included rather sooner than later, so that it can be tested properly 16:13
kparal btw, is some SB hardware out there yet? 16:13
jreznik kparal: it's really hard to get one... but would be great to get some hw for you guys 16:14
kparal if there is a possibility someone will test it in Fedora space, having it in Alpha would be nice 16:14
adamw yeah, i think the benefit of having it testable in alpha is significant 16:15
tflink good point 16:15
tflink +1 NTH 16:15
jreznik pjones: ping, would it be possible to get some sb enabled hw for fedora qa guys? 16:15
adamw +1 16:15
jreznik yep I agree with you, +1 nth as I was the guy who said SB in alpha or not at all :) -1 blocker but +1 nth 16:16
tflink proposed #agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha. 16:17
adamw ack 16:17
kparal jreznik: last time we counted, there were 6 of us in a 5-seat cubicle having 13 computers in total. one more computer is not a big deal :) 16:17
kparal ack 16:17
pjones jreznik: I don't have any way to get hardware other than just new development machines 16:17
pjones (which I can't order so much as just show up sometimes) 16:18
adamw the Brno Power Company's best customers 16:18
pjones jreznik: though I think there are a couple of machines on the market they could /buy/ at this point 16:18
jreznik or give a recommendation for hw for qa to obtain it? 16:18
jreznik btw ack 16:18
tflink #agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha. 16:18
tflink #topic (855560) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC6) Very high CPU usage under KDE 16:19
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855560 16:19
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 16:19
tflink I' 16:19
tflink m not sure this is a blocker 16:19
kparal I think this is just the debug kernel 16:19
kparal I see it on all my machines 16:20
kparal all video drivers 16:20
kparal video performance is awful 16:20
kparal but still usable 16:20
adamw yeah, i'd like more info from the reporter but i'm inclined to -1. 16:20
pjones jreznik: pretty much anything that claims it'll be able to run windows 8 /should/ have it, I /think/ 16:20
jreznik -1 blocker 16:20
jreznik pjones: ok, kparal do you think you could get some budget? or I can try to ask for some for you :) 16:21
tflink proposed #agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker. 16:21
jreznik ack 16:21
kparal ack 16:21
* tflink has a machine that should be SB capable 16:21
adamw ack 16:22
pjones (there is some discrepancy between being windows 8 logoed, which requires sb on by default, and being able to upgrade to windows 8 on the machine) 16:22
tflink #agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker. 16:22
tflink #topic (855644) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: no access to existing LVM/LUKS volumes 16:22
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855644 16:22
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 16:22
kparal we still haven't adjusted Alpha requirements, as pschindl proposed. so we still require LVM and LUKS to work under Alpha 16:23
* kparal just reminds 16:23
tflink I didn't think that custom partitioning was planned much for alpha 16:24
adamw yeah, i mentioned this is another proposed blocker 16:24
adamw i think we should probably check with #anaconda if this is feasible 16:25
kparal ah, and "existing Linux partitions" is in Alpha criteria too 16:25
adamw kparal: frankly i'd rather we don't try to apply that criterion as it stands 16:26
adamw it just isn't applicable to newUI 16:26
adamw we need to decide where we want to draw the alpha and beta lines for newUI from scratch 16:26
kparal ok. the only requirement I have is that anaconda doesn't confuse the user saying it can do something and then perform something completely different. but I don't think it needs to be able to do existing partitions and LVM/LUKS in Alpha 16:27
adamw my instinct is also -1, but i'd like to be able to quantify it a bit more... 16:28
adamw tflink? 16:28
tflink pretty much what kparal said, doesn't need to be there but would be nice if it didn't appear as it should work instead of us saying "well, that isn't working for alpha" 16:29
tflink sounds like we have some criteria proposals to do/finish, though 16:30
adamw yeah 16:31
adamw sounds like we're trending -1 but not convinced of ourselves :) 16:31
tflink proposed #agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified 16:33
kparal it anaconda says "sorry can't do that" it's OK. if it erases the whole disk instead, it not OK 16:33
kparal ack 16:33
adamw ack 16:33
jreznik ack 16:33
tflink #agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified 16:33
tflink #topic (855646) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: missing volume/device identification 16:34
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855646 16:34
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 16:34
tflink pretty much the same as the last bug, I think 16:35
jreznik yep 16:35
kparal agree 16:35
adamw yeah, though i'm more clearly -1 on this one... 16:36
tflink #agreed 855646 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. 16:36
tflink yay for recycling! 16:36
adamw belay that 16:36
adamw it's not so clearly a violation of the criteria as the last one 16:36
adamw i'd say s/does/may/ 16:36
tflink #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. 16:37
adamw alrighty 16:37
tflink or we could just reject it, I suppose 16:37
adamw meh, we can do it again wed 16:38
adamw when there'll be more people 16:38
tflink but I'm not clear on how the UI would work if there is no consistency in /dev/ names 16:38
tflink k, works for me 16:38
adamw it could at least filter out the device you're installing from 16:38
tflink ack/nak/patch? 16:38
adamw which it ought to do anyhow 16:38
adamw er, you did #agreed 16:38
adamw not propose #agreed 16:38
adamw so we have two agreements now 16:38
tflink oh, whoops 16:39
tflink #undo 16:39
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x2d902490> 16:39
tflink #undo 16:39
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x29e3e250> 16:39
tflink proposed #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. 16:39
adamw ack 16:40
kparal ack 16:40
jah moi 16:40
adamw vous? 16:40
tflink #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. 16:41
tflink #topic (855824) vesa driver is not used on Live 16:41
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855824 16:41
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 16:41
adamw so i suspect what's going on here is that xdriver= isn't being honored 16:42
tflink this might end up being a beta blocker 16:42
adamw but nomodeset is 16:42
adamw in practice nomodeset will ensure vesa is used on just about any bit of real hardware 16:42
adamw so i'm -1/-1 16:42
tflink are there docs that need to be updated, then? 16:43
adamw we can fiddle with the graphics in a KVM in enough other ways that the menu entry being broken isn't a real problem 16:43
adamw docs? 16:43
tflink test cases for booting into vesa 16:43
kparal should we just move this to F18Beta? 16:44
adamw tflink: no, the test case is correct 16:44
kparal adamw: well it could mention the VM case 16:44
adamw brb, call of nature 16:44
adamw nah, i wouldn't want to change the test fase 16:44
adamw case 16:44
tflink proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - 'nomodeset' should be working in place of vesa and when booting into a vm, the device type can be changed as an easy workaround in place of booting w/ vesa driver. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha 16:44
adamw the test case is correct and the menu entry *ought* to work in KVMs 16:45
tflink ack/nak/patch? 16:45
adamw nack 16:45
adamw the fact that it doesn't is a genuine bug 16:45
adamw i just don't think it's an important one 16:45
tflink ok 16:45
adamw tflink: the menu entry in question passes the parameters 'nomodeset xdriver=vesa' 16:45
adamw i think the bug here is that nothing's honoring the 'xdriver=vesa' part of that 16:45
adamw but in practice, on almost everything except a KVM, the 'nomodeset' part, these days, will result in the vesa driver being used anyway 16:46
jreznik seems like it works on real hw 16:46
kparal so should I re-propose this for later milestones or not? 16:46
adamw Back In The Day it wouldn't have done, as the native drivers still had UMS code. but nowadays, for all common hardware, the drivers don't have UMS code, so when 'nomodeset' is passed, X winds up falling back to vesa 16:46
adamw kparal: up to you. i'd vote -1 at any point, assuming my understanding above is correct, but that's just one vote :) 16:46
tflink proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha 16:47
kparal ack 16:47
jreznik ack 16:47
tflink #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha 16:49
tflink #topic (855784) packagekit waits for authentication 16:49
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855784 16:49
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, NEW 16:49
kparal this will require multiple people to re-verify 16:49
kparal it works for jreznik in a clean installation. I have upgraded system (since TC4 or so) and it doesn't 16:50
tflink yeah, sounds like a punt for now while waiting for more testing/workarounds/verification 16:50
jreznik yep, clean installation of live + latest packagekit = works for me 16:50
kparal jreznik: how do you install Live when it fails to boot on missing initrd? 16:51
jreznik kparal: it works in kvm 16:51
tflink proposed #agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit. 16:51
kparal jreznik: interesting 16:52
adamw this is a kind of follow-on from https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854209 ? 16:53
adamw ack, anyhow 16:53
kparal adamw: yes 16:53
tflink any other ack/nak/patch? 16:53
jreznik adamw: that's different but it could be related to policy kit selinux one 16:54
jreznik as it's tc4 updated... 16:54
kparal ack 16:54
tflink #agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit. 16:55
tflink OK, that's all of the proposed blockers 16:55
tflink any objections to skipping the accepted blockers and just doing the proposed NTHs? 16:55
kparal +1 16:55
adamw +1 16:56
tflink OK, 2 +1s -> objections -> time to go through all of the accepted blockers :-P 16:56
* tflink is joking 16:56
tflink #topic (852792) [Configure] button in network spoke doesn't work (nm-c-e fails to run) 16:56
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852792 16:56
tflink #info Proposed NTH, ASSIGNED 16:56
tflink wow, going back and forth between the blocker page mockups and the currently active page is really jarring 16:58
adamw well, this seems confused as hell. 17:00
tflink it sounds to me like c#12 might be a different bug 17:01
adamw yeah 17:02
adamw i think i might be able to test this out locally 17:02
adamw and provide better info to re-vote later 17:03
tflink but I'm OK with the original bug being NTH, assuming that I understand what's going on 17:03
tflink works for me 17:03
adamw if this is truly why the 'configure' button in liveinst does nothing in the GNOME spin, then yeah, probably +1 17:03
tflink proposed #agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested 17:04
tflink this is only lives? 17:04
tflink nvm, just potentially related 17:04
tflink ack/nak/patch? 17:04
adamw ack 17:05
tflink looks like we may have lost almost everyone else 17:06
adamw how could they possibly leave when we're having so much fun?! 17:06
* jreznik is still here 17:06
adamw i'd like to get at least the next two proposed nth accepted 17:06
adamw they're pretty important for non-blocking spins 17:06
* tflink plays jeopordy music in the bkground 17:06
tflink time's up 17:07
tflink #agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested 17:07
tflink #topic (855465) osmo depends on libsyncml, which currently cannot be installed (f18/rawhide) 17:07
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855465 17:07
tflink #info Proposed NTH, ON_QA 17:07
tflink +1 NTH 17:08
jreznik +1 nth, fixed, karma +1 from me 17:08
adamw +1 17:08
kparal +1 nth 17:08
adamw simples! 17:08
tflink proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. 17:09
tflink ack/nak/patch? 17:09
adamw ack 17:10
jreznik ack 17:10
kparal ack 17:10
tflink #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. 17:10
tflink #topic (855470) lxdm should ship a systemd preset to ensure it's enabled after install 17:10
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855470 17:10
tflink #info Proposed NTH, NEW 17:10
tflink proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of LXDE spin after installation from livecd which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. 17:10
tflink er, that's not quite right 17:11
tflink proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. 17:12
tflink damnation, I did it again 17:12
tflink proposed #agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. 17:12
tflink third time's the charm, I suppose 17:12
tflink or the hazards of recycling 17:13
kparal can I ack now? 17:13
kparal is it safe? 17:13
tflink it's never safe ... 17:13
* tflink looks around, all paranoid 17:13
adamw ack 17:13
jreznik ack 17:13
kparal ack 17:13
tflink #agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. 17:14
tflink #topic (855510) TC5: Cannot get past "Booting in ...... in 0 seconds" screen on iMac 2011 (booting from USB) 17:14
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855510 17:14
tflink #info Proposed NTH, NEW 17:14
tflink does this qualify for alpha? 17:14
tflink either way, needs more info 17:15
tflink USB creation method, mostly 17:15
kparal we can test Mac Mini if it helps 17:15
adamw TC5 was before some EFI fixes 17:15
adamw anyway, yeah, needslotsofinfo 17:16
kparal let's give action item to jskladan, he has the Mac on his desk ;-) 17:16
tflink proposed #agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful. 17:17
* kparal loves proposing action items for other people 17:17
jskladan kparal: i se what you did there :) 17:17
tflink #action kparal to propose action item to get jskladan to do kparal's work for him 17:17
kparal jskladan: you want to play with the Mac anyway, I know you 17:17
jskladan aaaaw, that's true :) 17:18
kparal he accepted! 17:18
tflink anyhow, any ack/nak/patch so we can be done with this meeting? 17:18
kparal ack 17:18
tflink #undo 17:18
zodbot Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x36c49850> 17:18
jskladan patch: for 30% of his salary ;) 17:19
jreznik ack 17:19
tflink #agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful. 17:19
tflink last proposed NTH ... 17:19
tflink #topic (855477) Many icons missing when running anaconda within a live Xfce image 17:19
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855477 17:19
tflink #info Proposed NTH, NEW 17:19
tflink +1 NTH 17:20
kparal nice pictures 17:20
kparal +1 nth 17:20
jreznik it's just cosmetic ;) 17:20
tflink proposed #agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker. 17:20
tflink ack/nak/patch? 17:21
adamw fwiw this may be an xfce bug not anaconda 17:21
adamw note all the missing icons in the xfce tray 17:21
adamw but hey, i'd be +1 nth either way 17:21
nirik huh. 17:21
nirik I didn't see any of that on the last nightly I tried. 17:21
kparal ack 17:21
* nirik can test again with todays. Recent ones had gdm in them 17:21
tflink other ack/nak/patch? 17:22
adamw nirik: yeah, it may depend on exactly waht comps i got 17:22
* tflink reaches for the spiky 2x4 of timely voting "encouragement" 17:23
nirik ack 17:23
tflink #agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker. 17:24
tflink OK, that would be all of the proposed blockers and NTH on my list 17:24
tflink and since we seem to have lost most interest, I do believe that we're done with the "mini" blocker review 17:24
jreznik "mini" :) 17:24
adamw whew 17:25
adamw thanks tflink 17:25
adamw i propose we just end this meeting here, since we've lost a lot of people 17:25
adamw i don't see any value in discussing criteria changes with this few bodies 17:25
adamw let's do this just in case.... 17:26
tflink agreed 17:26
* kparal sees corpses all around... 17:26
adamw #info release criteria topic is postponed due to length of previous segment and lack of people 17:26
adamw #topic open floor 17:26
adamw anyone for open floor? 17:26
* jreznik is corpse now... 17:26
* tflink will have a new draft of the blocker tracking page to send out (hopefully) soon 17:26
tflink looks lots different from the previous versions 17:27
jreznik what bits we currently miss for rc? 17:27
adamw jreznik: a new anaconda build is all really 17:28
adamw though we might need to do something about partitioning 17:28
* adamw sets fuse for 3 mins 17:30
nirik adamw: I see icons fine in todays nightly xfce... 17:31
nirik so might have been some comps issue or something. 17:31
adamw do nightlies use updates-testing? 17:31
nirik no 17:33
adamw probably comps then yeah. 17:33
adamw we'll see what tc7/rc1 spits out. 17:33
* nirik nods 17:33
adamw okay! 17:36
adamw let's get back to something vaguely resembling work 17:36
adamw thanks for coming all 17:36
adamw #endmeeting 17:36

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