From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- adamw (200)
- tflink (194)
- kparal (74)
- jreznik (63)
- nirik (9)
- zodbot (8)
- pjones (5)
- jskladan (4)
- cpuobsessed (3)
- maxamillion (3)
- brunowolff (2)
- Cerlyn (2)
- satellit (2)
- pschindl (2)
- nb (1)
- aspratyush (1)
- jah (1)
Agenda
- Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review
- Release criteria revision
- Open floor
Fedora 18 general status check / mini blocker review
- TC6 was out, very close to doing an RC1 but needed a new anaconda build
Blocker/NTH review
- #855289 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
- #854471 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
- #854586 was rejected as a blocker as it only affects more advanced network configurations
- #855285 was accepted as a blocker for breaking USB installation
- #854962 was accepted as a blocker for breaking firstboot of installed live systems
- #855481 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as errors in root password handling are obviously significant
- #854818 was rejected as a blocker as it didn't break any criteria but accepted as NTH as Secure Boot support at Alpha is clearly useful to have
- #855560 was rejected as a blocker as it appears simply to be caused by debugging being enabled in the kernel for Alpha
- #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
- #855646 was left undetermined as the group agreed the relevant criterion needed alteration; it would be revisited after the alteration was complete
- #855824 was rejected as a blocker due to limited impact: basic graphics mode will work in practice in most important contexts
- #855784 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
- #852792 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
- #855465 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
- #855470 was accepted as NTH for breaking the LXDE spin
- #855510 was left undetermined until further data could be obtained
- #855477 was accepted as NTH for obvious visual impact
Release criteria revision
- Topic was tabled due to time taken by the blocker/nth review
Open floor
N/A
Action items
- tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289
IRC Log
| adamw | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 15:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Sep 10 15:00:19 2012 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 15:00 |
| adamw | #meetingname fedora-qa | 15:00 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 15:00 |
| adamw | #topic roll call | 15:00 |
| adamw | morning folks, who's around to chase the f18 unicorn? | 15:00 |
| tflink | UNICORNS!!!! | 15:01 |
| * satellit listening | 15:01 | |
| * Cerlyn watches | 15:02 | |
| * brunowolff is lurking for about 20 minutes and then has to go to a work meeting. | 15:02 | |
| * pschindl is here | 15:02 | |
| jskladan | is it pony unicorn? | 15:02 |
| * jreznik is here to chase the snake | 15:03 | |
| kparal | ouch | 15:03 |
| * nirik is lurking | 15:03 | |
| Cerlyn | Perhaps those calling it a Spherical Cow have never seen a unicorn before | 15:03 |
| adamw | eeexcellent | 15:03 |
| tflink | jreznik: snake? I thought that we were talking about unicorns | 15:03 |
| brunowolff | jreznik picked a bad release to become the program manager! | 15:04 |
| tflink | adamw: channeling mr. burns are we? | 15:04 |
| * adamw pretends to wait for more people while actually making coffee | 15:04 | |
| adamw | i *always* channel mr burns | 15:04 |
| adamw | .fire tflink | 15:04 |
| zodbot | adamw fires tflink | 15:04 |
| jreznik | tflink: unicorn snake? | 15:05 |
| * nb is lurking | 15:06 | |
| tflink | jreznik: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3IBfde2A9L8/TIVUuLrUpRI/AAAAAAAADsQ/trjM02LXkkE/s1600/pony-magic.png ? | 15:06 |
| * maxamillion is here | 15:07 | |
| adamw | alrighty, maxamillion's here, we can start! | 15:07 |
| adamw | =) | 15:08 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 18 status check / mini blocker review | 15:08 |
| adamw | so i was kinda hoping we'd have an rc1 already by today, but no-one was around to do an anaconda build over the weekend | 15:08 |
| adamw | when we do get the new build, though, it should be in significantly better shape than tc6 | 15:09 |
| adamw | #chair tflink | 15:09 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw tflink | 15:09 |
| jreznik | adamw: ok, thanks for info | 15:09 |
| adamw | go/no-go is on thursday so we need to nail down testing on the next build fast to make sure we can hit the date (finally) | 15:09 |
| * cpuobsessed is sitting in the back corner | 15:09 | |
| adamw | that's pretty much it, any other general f18 thoughts? | 15:10 |
| jreznik | adamw: are anaconda guys working on a new build or poking is needed? | 15:10 |
| cpuobsessed | bug #845745 | 15:10 |
| adamw | jreznik: haven't checked in with them yet, i only just woke up | 15:11 |
| adamw | cpuobsessed: what about it? | 15:12 |
| cpuobsessed | narrowed the breakage between 3.5.0-0.rc0.git6 and git7; so maybe those of us with certain ATI GPUs can start testing again | 15:12 |
| adamw | okay... | 15:13 |
| adamw | alright, are we ready for the mini-blocker review? | 15:13 |
| maxamillion | adamw: fire away captain | 15:13 |
| kparal | will saying 'no' help? | 15:13 |
| adamw | fire? where?! where?! abandon shop! | 15:14 |
| adamw | kparal: absolutely not. | 15:14 |
| kparal | I thought so | 15:14 |
| adamw | =) | 15:14 |
| maxamillion | kparal: was worth a shot ;) | 15:14 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 18 - mini blocker review | 15:14 |
| adamw | over to you, cap'n flink | 15:14 |
| adamw | (we're all captains on this ship. it's suffering from severe rank inflation.) | 15:14 |
| tflink | #info 12 Proposed Blockers | 15:14 |
| tflink | #info 11 Accepted Blockers | 15:14 |
| tflink | #info 5 Proposed NTH | 15:14 |
| tflink | #info 5 Accepted NTH | 15:14 |
| tflink | #topic (855289) Dri files are missing in lorax ( /usr/lib64/dri/foo-dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory ) | 15:15 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855289 | 15:15 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blockers, ON_QA | 15:15 |
| adamw | this is an icky one, viking is convinced this is causing a showstopper for him, but bcl isn't so sure this is the problem | 15:16 |
| adamw | no-one else seems to have chipped in yet | 15:16 |
| kparal | there is one more comment from Marcos | 15:17 |
| tflink | one other person chimed in, but it sounds like that might have been another instance of #854688 | 15:17 |
| adamw | yeah, if it doesn't happen when you use English, it's not this bug. | 15:18 |
| kparal | I think I haven't tested TC6 DVD over USB. so I can't really say it doesn't happen to me | 15:19 |
| tflink | sounds like we might need more information but it's already part of the next lorax build | 15:19 |
| adamw | i don't think the medium is relevant to the bug | 15:19 |
| jreznik | yep | 15:19 |
| adamw | graphics hardware conceivably could be, though | 15:19 |
| adamw | tflink: the question is whether we pull that lorax build or not | 15:19 |
| adamw | nothing else needs it - in fact this is the only change in it | 15:19 |
| jreznik | we can ask them to retest with latest lorac but as bcl is not sure it's cause by missing dri... but... | 15:20 |
| adamw | jreznik: the problem is you can't really 're-test with latest lorax' | 15:20 |
| adamw | well, not easily | 15:20 |
| adamw | you have to build your own install image | 15:20 |
| adamw | lorax is used in the image compose process | 15:20 |
| tflink | we could build a test image pretty easily to see if that fixes things | 15:20 |
| tflink | if viking hasn't done so already | 15:20 |
| adamw | maybe that'd be best | 15:21 |
| jreznik | adamw: in next tc/rc? | 15:21 |
| adamw | viking's usually pretty available so he should be able to test it quickly | 15:21 |
| jreznik | but of course, sooner better | 15:21 |
| tflink | #action tflink to build test image w/ new lorax to test #855289 | 15:21 |
| adamw | so punt on this till we have results from testing? | 15:21 |
| tflink | if this does indeed fix what viking was seeing - do we want to accept as a blocker | 15:21 |
| tflink | ? | 15:21 |
| tflink | punt is a better option than a conditional vote, I suppose | 15:22 |
| adamw | since we have another review on wednesday | 15:22 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing | 15:22 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 15:23 |
| jreznik | ack as we can't do anything before we have more data... | 15:23 |
| kparal | ack | 15:24 |
| adamw | ack | 15:24 |
| tflink | #agreed 855289 - It's not clear how widespread this problem is or whether the dri files will fix it - will revisit after more testing | 15:24 |
| tflink | #topic (854471) anaconda stop at the "Error checking storage configuration" | 15:24 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854471 | 15:24 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 15:24 |
| kparal | this is waiting for developer action. but I'm afraid storage.log is missing | 15:24 |
| adamw | yep :( | 15:25 |
| adamw | that's the most important log... | 15:25 |
| kparal | I tried to ping twu but he was already gone. we can put another needinfo there | 15:26 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available. | 15:26 |
| kparal | just 2 people reported that they saw this. it has probably very limited scope | 15:26 |
| kparal | ack | 15:26 |
| adamw | ack | 15:27 |
| jreznik | ack | 15:27 |
| tflink | #agreed 854471 - Still missing information needed to triage, not completely sure of cause. Will revisit when there is more information available. | 15:27 |
| tflink | #topic (854586) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Configure network dialogue isn't accessible in Anaconda | 15:27 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586 | 15:27 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA | 15:27 |
| * tflink needs to leave for a bit | 15:28 | |
| * adamw will carry on | 15:29 | |
| adamw | so, i think what's been clarified since last week is you likely need a wireless connection to hit this | 15:30 |
| adamw | oh...or maybe i've got that wrong | 15:31 |
| kparal | I don't think so. is this the bug where you hit configure and it crashes? no matter whether live or DVD? | 15:31 |
| kparal | then you can do it with wired networking as well | 15:31 |
| * jreznik does not understand the bug | 15:31 | |
| adamw | the reproducer is in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854586#c17 | 15:31 |
| adamw | kparal: i'm fairly sure i tested in the last meeting and it didn't crash for me: clicking the configure button resulted in nothing happening, but no crash | 15:32 |
| kparal | adamw: hmm, you may be right | 15:32 |
| adamw | i think this may be specific to live images which don't include nm-c-e | 15:32 |
| jreznik | then for live it's not a bad idea to depend on native DE network manager | 15:33 |
| jreznik | and disable network spoke | 15:33 |
| kparal | I still believe it's worth +1 blocker, even it fails just for wifi | 15:33 |
| kparal | or +1 nth at least | 15:33 |
| adamw | i'm kinda leaning nth not blocker | 15:33 |
| adamw | (we already took it as nth) | 15:33 |
| adamw | but i'd like to be clearer... | 15:33 |
| * jreznik is more nth too and with no network spoke in live anaconda solution | 15:33 | |
| adamw | the 'fix' for this in 18.6.6 is "require nm-connection-editor" | 15:34 |
| jreznik | not sure it makes sense to have live de nm configuration and then nm-c-e one, it's quite confusing but good for alpha I guess | 15:35 |
| adamw | propose we just leave it as nth since the fix is in 18.6.6 anyhow | 15:35 |
| jreznik | ok | 15:35 |
| kparal | fine with me | 15:35 |
| adamw | propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, this remains NTH and is rejectedblocker | 15:36 |
| adamw | er | 15:36 |
| adamw | propose #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker | 15:36 |
| jreznik | ack | 15:36 |
| kparal | ack | 15:36 |
| pschindl | ack | 15:36 |
| adamw | #agreed as this affects only more advanced network configuration in certain live environments, where it can be worked around by using the live environment's network configuration tools, #854586 remains NTH and is rejectedblocker | 15:37 |
| adamw | oh, foo, i don't have tflink's neat script-y thing | 15:37 |
| adamw | one sec, lemme see if i can find it | 15:37 |
| adamw | ha ha. | 15:38 |
| adamw | #topic (855285) "AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'addMacros' | 15:38 |
| adamw | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855285 | 15:38 |
| adamw | #info Proposed Blockers, MODIFIED | 15:38 |
| kparal | so what does this break? | 15:39 |
| adamw | per the description, "fix livecd-to-iso alpha network usb thumbdrives installs" | 15:40 |
| kparal | but we don't know whether it breaks dd too | 15:40 |
| adamw | yeah | 15:41 |
| * adamw is asking clumens | 15:41 | |
| * kparal watching | 15:41 | |
| adamw | clumens says "should affect all yum-based installs" | 15:42 |
| adamw | assuming 'yum-based install' means 'just about anything', sounds +1 blocker-y to me... | 15:43 |
| kparal | yep | 15:43 |
| tflink | yeah, isn't everything other than preupgrade yum-based? | 15:43 |
| adamw | who knows | 15:43 |
| adamw | hey, you're not here! | 15:43 |
| tflink | nope, not here | 15:43 |
| * jreznik does not see tflink | 15:44 | |
| adamw | propose #agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods" | 15:44 |
| adamw | tflink: do you have a hideous beard and shades? | 15:44 |
| kparal | ack | 15:45 |
| jreznik | any installation that uses yum to install packages, not live | 15:45 |
| tflink | adamw: I suppose hideous depends on personal taste, but no shades | 15:45 |
| tflink | why aren't we seeing this outside of USB, though? | 15:45 |
| tflink | if it affects all yum-based installs, shouldn't it be causing more problems for DVD and netinstall? | 15:46 |
| adamw | what i want to know is, why am i debating a figment of my imagination? | 15:46 |
| kparal | adamw: schizofrenia | 15:47 |
| tflink | it just bugs me that this is supposedly affecting only USB installs | 15:48 |
| tflink | unless I'm missing something, the scope of this should be much larger than litd or dd | 15:48 |
| adamw | the code is conditional | 15:48 |
| jreznik | tflink: if it's all yum based install and yum based means what clumens told at anaconda, yeah, it should have broader scope | 15:49 |
| adamw | http://www.fpaste.org/NC23/ | 15:49 |
| adamw | perhaps that 'if...else' is only fulfilled in a USB context | 15:49 |
| kparal | if not selinux, hmm | 15:49 |
| adamw | but i really don't want to waste too much time on it... | 15:50 |
| adamw | since it's in 18.6.6 anyhow | 15:50 |
| tflink | yeah, it just bugs me that something checking for readability of a fs would only work on USB | 15:50 |
| tflink | since RO media should still be read-able | 15:50 |
| adamw | clyde kunkel hit it too (dupe) | 15:51 |
| adamw | and clumens seemed happy to pull it | 15:51 |
| tflink | it's a typo fix, though and already in the next build. so like adam said, not worth debating much | 15:51 |
| tflink | ack | 15:51 |
| adamw | one more ack? | 15:53 |
| jreznik | you convinced me, ack | 15:54 |
| adamw | #agreed #855285 is accepted as a blocker per criterion "The installer must boot (if appropriate) and run on all primary architectures, with all system firmware types that are common on those architectures, from default live image, DVD, and boot.iso install media when written to an optical disc and when written to a USB stick with at least one of the officially supported methods" | 15:55 |
| adamw | are you taking back over, invisible man>? | 15:55 |
| tflink | either way | 15:55 |
| tflink | #topic (854962) Installed system messed up with live stuff | 15:55 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962 | 15:55 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, ON_QA | 15:55 |
| tflink | it sounds like the issue here is that live install replicates the livecd instead of doing a proper install? | 15:56 |
| tflink | ie, liveuser autologin, no firstboot, anaconda still present | 15:56 |
| jreznik | tflink: yep | 15:56 |
| adamw | i included a very thin blocker rationalization in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854962#c12 | 15:56 |
| adamw | you can vote +1 if it convinced you =) | 15:56 |
| tflink | I'm OK with blocker on this | 15:57 |
| tflink | +1 | 15:57 |
| jreznik | adamw: my understanding skills are not good enough to understand it :) but I agree, it's a blocker | 15:57 |
| jreznik | +1 | 15:57 |
| jreznik | it's fixed, just how do we want to pull firstboot into live system/installed live system? | 15:58 |
| adamw | jreznik: there is a special part of my brain labelled 'convoluted blocker justifications' | 15:58 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases (see Blocker_Bug_FAQ), a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user accoun | 15:58 |
| * jreznik tried to read it several time and gave up :) | 15:58 | |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account" | 15:58 |
| kparal | ack | 15:59 |
| adamw | ack | 15:59 |
| aspratyush | ack | 15:59 |
| tflink | #agreed 854962 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for live installs: "In most cases, a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode. The firstboot utility must be able to create a working user account" | 15:59 |
| tflink | #topic (855481) Root password is empty after install from live image without completing root pw spoke in anaconda | 15:59 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855481 | 15:59 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, POST | 15:59 |
| jreznik | tflink: for previous bug, how do we plan to ship firstboot in live? | 16:00 |
| tflink | jreznik: not sure I follow you - firstboot should be on the lives for install | 16:00 |
| adamw | jreznik: same way we always have, as a package on the live image? | 16:00 |
| adamw | jreznik: it's set up not to run when booting live | 16:00 |
| * satellit soas live starts firsboot.... | 16:01 | |
| adamw | so this is another one which the criteria don't really cover... | 16:02 |
| jreznik | tflink: it's not available on tc6 lives, so it's not runned after the bug is fixed... or should the other comps bug fix it? | 16:02 |
| adamw | we don't have a criterion saying 'root should have a password' :) | 16:02 |
| adamw | jreznik: probably the comps thing. you can't rely at all on any tc6 package set. | 16:02 |
| tflink | jreznik: I don't remember where the issue was, but it could be affected by the same thing that wasn't pulling in firstboot earlier | 16:03 |
| tflink | either spin-kickstarts or comps | 16:03 |
| jreznik | yep, just raising it as an issue | 16:03 |
| jreznik | I did not report bug because of tc6 breakage, to be aware only | 16:04 |
| jreznik | let's move on :) | 16:05 |
| adamw | so, what do we want to do with 855481? | 16:05 |
| adamw | it really hits no criteria afaict | 16:05 |
| adamw | we can make it nth | 16:05 |
| adamw | propose a criterion | 16:05 |
| adamw | or take it through the escape hatch | 16:05 |
| tflink | what did we do about root pw for non-live installs? | 16:06 |
| adamw | what do you mean? | 16:06 |
| tflink | didn't we take that as a blocker? | 16:07 |
| tflink | when you couldn't set root pw on the non-live installs (bringing in the root pw spoke) | 16:07 |
| adamw | because it made text installs inaccessible | 16:07 |
| adamw | this doesn't make anything inaccessible, rather the contrary :) | 16:08 |
| jreznik | adamw: :) | 16:08 |
| adamw | the result of this bug is a root account you can log into without entering a password | 16:08 |
| adamw | not a root account you can't log into | 16:08 |
| tflink | I could go either way on this one, to be honest | 16:08 |
| jreznik | yep, that's the difference | 16:08 |
| jreznik | it could be a huge security issue | 16:08 |
| tflink | probably more towards +1 NTH, -1 blocker though | 16:08 |
| adamw | i worry that i'm maybe overcontorting on this one | 16:08 |
| tflink | I can't see blocking release because root pw isn't set on lives | 16:09 |
| adamw | are we trapped so far inside the criteria that we're at a point where anyone else would look at it and say 'well OBVIOUSLY that should be a blocker'? | 16:09 |
| jreznik | we should have criteria for this and it should be blocker | 16:09 |
| tflink | release -> alpha release | 16:09 |
| jreznik | but now nth is good too | 16:09 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system | 16:10 |
| jreznik | adamw: I'd say anyone else would say it's a blocker :) not a good idea to not be aware that your system has no root password and it's accessible from everywhere | 16:10 |
| adamw | ack, for now | 16:10 |
| jreznik | ack | 16:10 |
| adamw | jreznik: yeah, that's what i'm worried about | 16:10 |
| * kparal reminds we don't have to have criteria to accept something as a blocker. criteria just helps in contentious issues | 16:10 | |
| adamw | kparal: well, it needs to hit the criteria or the escape clause | 16:11 |
| adamw | (the one under the criteria) | 16:11 |
| kparal | we have different opinions then | 16:11 |
| kparal | nevermind, ack | 16:12 |
| tflink | #agreed 855481 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - Does not violate any F18 alpha release criterion but a root password set during live install should go through to the installed system | 16:12 |
| tflink | #topic (854818) livecd-creator needs secure boot support | 16:12 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854818 | 16:12 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, MODIFIED | 16:12 |
| tflink | -1 blocker, unsure about NTH | 16:12 |
| tflink | this seems like a boarderline bad idea to be pulling in so late | 16:13 |
| kparal | -1 blocker +1 nth | 16:13 |
| tflink | but the traditional installers already support it | 16:13 |
| tflink | parity would be nice | 16:13 |
| kparal | we need to have it included rather sooner than later, so that it can be tested properly | 16:13 |
| kparal | btw, is some SB hardware out there yet? | 16:13 |
| jreznik | kparal: it's really hard to get one... but would be great to get some hw for you guys | 16:14 |
| kparal | if there is a possibility someone will test it in Fedora space, having it in Alpha would be nice | 16:14 |
| adamw | yeah, i think the benefit of having it testable in alpha is significant | 16:15 |
| tflink | good point | 16:15 |
| tflink | +1 NTH | 16:15 |
| jreznik | pjones: ping, would it be possible to get some sb enabled hw for fedora qa guys? | 16:15 |
| adamw | +1 | 16:15 |
| jreznik | yep I agree with you, +1 nth as I was the guy who said SB in alpha or not at all :) -1 blocker but +1 nth | 16:16 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha. | 16:17 |
| adamw | ack | 16:17 |
| kparal | jreznik: last time we counted, there were 6 of us in a 5-seat cubicle having 13 computers in total. one more computer is not a big deal :) | 16:17 |
| kparal | ack | 16:17 |
| pjones | jreznik: I don't have any way to get hardware other than just new development machines | 16:17 |
| pjones | (which I can't order so much as just show up sometimes) | 16:18 |
| adamw | the Brno Power Company's best customers | 16:18 |
| pjones | jreznik: though I think there are a couple of machines on the market they could /buy/ at this point | 16:18 |
| jreznik | or give a recommendation for hw for qa to obtain it? | 16:18 |
| jreznik | btw ack | 16:18 |
| tflink | #agreed 854818 - RejectedBlocker, AcceptedNTH - While the lack of SB functionality doesn't violate any F18 alpha release criteria, it is a feature of F18 and already present in the non-live installers. SB would be useful to have in alpha for testing and thus thus bug is accepted as NTH for F18 alpha. | 16:18 |
| tflink | #topic (855560) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC6) Very high CPU usage under KDE | 16:19 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855560 | 16:19 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 16:19 |
| tflink | I' | 16:19 |
| tflink | m not sure this is a blocker | 16:19 |
| kparal | I think this is just the debug kernel | 16:19 |
| kparal | I see it on all my machines | 16:20 |
| kparal | all video drivers | 16:20 |
| kparal | video performance is awful | 16:20 |
| kparal | but still usable | 16:20 |
| adamw | yeah, i'd like more info from the reporter but i'm inclined to -1. | 16:20 |
| pjones | jreznik: pretty much anything that claims it'll be able to run windows 8 /should/ have it, I /think/ | 16:20 |
| jreznik | -1 blocker | 16:20 |
| jreznik | pjones: ok, kparal do you think you could get some budget? or I can try to ask for some for you :) | 16:21 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker. | 16:21 |
| jreznik | ack | 16:21 |
| kparal | ack | 16:21 |
| * tflink has a machine that should be SB capable | 16:21 | |
| adamw | ack | 16:22 |
| pjones | (there is some discrepancy between being windows 8 logoed, which requires sb on by default, and being able to upgrade to windows 8 on the machine) | 16:22 |
| tflink | #agreed 855560 - RejectedBlocker - This seems to be caused by the debug kernel used until the beta release and thus, not much of a bug. If it turns out to be something other than the debug kernel, please re-propose as a blocker. | 16:22 |
| tflink | #topic (855644) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: no access to existing LVM/LUKS volumes | 16:22 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855644 | 16:22 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 16:22 |
| kparal | we still haven't adjusted Alpha requirements, as pschindl proposed. so we still require LVM and LUKS to work under Alpha | 16:23 |
| * kparal just reminds | 16:23 | |
| tflink | I didn't think that custom partitioning was planned much for alpha | 16:24 |
| adamw | yeah, i mentioned this is another proposed blocker | 16:24 |
| adamw | i think we should probably check with #anaconda if this is feasible | 16:25 |
| kparal | ah, and "existing Linux partitions" is in Alpha criteria too | 16:25 |
| adamw | kparal: frankly i'd rather we don't try to apply that criterion as it stands | 16:26 |
| adamw | it just isn't applicable to newUI | 16:26 |
| adamw | we need to decide where we want to draw the alpha and beta lines for newUI from scratch | 16:26 |
| kparal | ok. the only requirement I have is that anaconda doesn't confuse the user saying it can do something and then perform something completely different. but I don't think it needs to be able to do existing partitions and LVM/LUKS in Alpha | 16:27 |
| adamw | my instinct is also -1, but i'd like to be able to quantify it a bit more... | 16:28 |
| adamw | tflink? | 16:28 |
| tflink | pretty much what kparal said, doesn't need to be there but would be nice if it didn't appear as it should work instead of us saying "well, that isn't working for alpha" | 16:29 |
| tflink | sounds like we have some criteria proposals to do/finish, though | 16:30 |
| adamw | yeah | 16:31 |
| adamw | sounds like we're trending -1 but not convinced of ourselves :) | 16:31 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified | 16:33 |
| kparal | it anaconda says "sorry can't do that" it's OK. if it erases the whole disk instead, it not OK | 16:33 |
| kparal | ack | 16:33 |
| adamw | ack | 16:33 |
| jreznik | ack | 16:33 |
| tflink | #agreed 855644 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified | 16:33 |
| tflink | #topic (855646) F18 KDE Live (alpha TC5) Anaconda custom partition setup: missing volume/device identification | 16:34 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855646 | 16:34 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 16:34 |
| tflink | pretty much the same as the last bug, I think | 16:35 |
| jreznik | yep | 16:35 |
| kparal | agree | 16:35 |
| adamw | yeah, though i'm more clearly -1 on this one... | 16:36 |
| tflink | #agreed 855646 - While this does qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. | 16:36 |
| tflink | yay for recycling! | 16:36 |
| adamw | belay that | 16:36 |
| adamw | it's not so clearly a violation of the criteria as the last one | 16:36 |
| adamw | i'd say s/does/may/ | 16:36 |
| tflink | #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. | 16:37 |
| adamw | alrighty | 16:37 |
| tflink | or we could just reject it, I suppose | 16:37 |
| adamw | meh, we can do it again wed | 16:38 |
| adamw | when there'll be more people | 16:38 |
| tflink | but I'm not clear on how the UI would work if there is no consistency in /dev/ names | 16:38 |
| tflink | k, works for me | 16:38 |
| adamw | it could at least filter out the device you're installing from | 16:38 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 16:38 |
| adamw | which it ought to do anyhow | 16:38 |
| adamw | er, you did #agreed | 16:38 |
| adamw | not propose #agreed | 16:38 |
| adamw | so we have two agreements now | 16:38 |
| tflink | oh, whoops | 16:39 |
| tflink | #undo | 16:39 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x2d902490> | 16:39 |
| tflink | #undo | 16:39 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x29e3e250> | 16:39 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. | 16:39 |
| adamw | ack | 16:40 |
| kparal | ack | 16:40 |
| jah | moi | 16:40 |
| adamw | vous? | 16:40 |
| tflink | #agreed 855646 - While this may qualify as a blocker according to the F18 alpha release criterion as written at this time, we feel that the blocker criteria should be modified to better reflect what is reasonable to expect from anaconda and this should not be an alpha blocker. Will re-visit once appliciable criteria have been voted on and modified. | 16:41 |
| tflink | #topic (855824) vesa driver is not used on Live | 16:41 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855824 | 16:41 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 16:41 |
| adamw | so i suspect what's going on here is that xdriver= isn't being honored | 16:42 |
| tflink | this might end up being a beta blocker | 16:42 |
| adamw | but nomodeset is | 16:42 |
| adamw | in practice nomodeset will ensure vesa is used on just about any bit of real hardware | 16:42 |
| adamw | so i'm -1/-1 | 16:42 |
| tflink | are there docs that need to be updated, then? | 16:43 |
| adamw | we can fiddle with the graphics in a KVM in enough other ways that the menu entry being broken isn't a real problem | 16:43 |
| adamw | docs? | 16:43 |
| tflink | test cases for booting into vesa | 16:43 |
| kparal | should we just move this to F18Beta? | 16:44 |
| adamw | tflink: no, the test case is correct | 16:44 |
| kparal | adamw: well it could mention the VM case | 16:44 |
| adamw | brb, call of nature | 16:44 |
| adamw | nah, i wouldn't want to change the test fase | 16:44 |
| adamw | case | 16:44 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - 'nomodeset' should be working in place of vesa and when booting into a vm, the device type can be changed as an easy workaround in place of booting w/ vesa driver. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha | 16:44 |
| adamw | the test case is correct and the menu entry *ought* to work in KVMs | 16:45 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 16:45 |
| adamw | nack | 16:45 |
| adamw | the fact that it doesn't is a genuine bug | 16:45 |
| adamw | i just don't think it's an important one | 16:45 |
| tflink | ok | 16:45 |
| adamw | tflink: the menu entry in question passes the parameters 'nomodeset xdriver=vesa' | 16:45 |
| adamw | i think the bug here is that nothing's honoring the 'xdriver=vesa' part of that | 16:45 |
| adamw | but in practice, on almost everything except a KVM, the 'nomodeset' part, these days, will result in the vesa driver being used anyway | 16:46 |
| jreznik | seems like it works on real hw | 16:46 |
| kparal | so should I re-propose this for later milestones or not? | 16:46 |
| adamw | Back In The Day it wouldn't have done, as the native drivers still had UMS code. but nowadays, for all common hardware, the drivers don't have UMS code, so when 'nomodeset' is passed, X winds up falling back to vesa | 16:46 |
| adamw | kparal: up to you. i'd vote -1 at any point, assuming my understanding above is correct, but that's just one vote :) | 16:46 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha | 16:47 |
| kparal | ack | 16:47 |
| jreznik | ack | 16:47 |
| tflink | #agreed 855824 - RejectedBlocker - While there is a bug here, it only affects VMs. Since using 'nomodeset' is a possible workaround for either bare metal or VMs and when booting into a VM, the device type can be changed - there are easy workarounds in place of booting w/ vesa driver specified. Since this isn't a direct violation of F18 alpha release criteria and there are easy workarounds - rejected as blocker for F18 alpha | 16:49 |
| tflink | #topic (855784) packagekit waits for authentication | 16:49 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855784 | 16:49 |
| tflink | #info Proposed Blocker, NEW | 16:49 |
| kparal | this will require multiple people to re-verify | 16:49 |
| kparal | it works for jreznik in a clean installation. I have upgraded system (since TC4 or so) and it doesn't | 16:50 |
| tflink | yeah, sounds like a punt for now while waiting for more testing/workarounds/verification | 16:50 |
| jreznik | yep, clean installation of live + latest packagekit = works for me | 16:50 |
| kparal | jreznik: how do you install Live when it fails to boot on missing initrd? | 16:51 |
| jreznik | kparal: it works in kvm | 16:51 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit. | 16:51 |
| kparal | jreznik: interesting | 16:52 |
| adamw | this is a kind of follow-on from https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=854209 ? | 16:53 |
| adamw | ack, anyhow | 16:53 |
| kparal | adamw: yes | 16:53 |
| tflink | any other ack/nak/patch? | 16:53 |
| jreznik | adamw: that's different but it could be related to policy kit selinux one | 16:54 |
| jreznik | as it's tc4 updated... | 16:54 |
| kparal | ack | 16:54 |
| tflink | #agreed 855784 - This may not affect new installs and may have other workarounds. Needs more testing and/or reproduction before making a decision on blocker status for F18 alpha - will revisit. | 16:55 |
| tflink | OK, that's all of the proposed blockers | 16:55 |
| tflink | any objections to skipping the accepted blockers and just doing the proposed NTHs? | 16:55 |
| kparal | +1 | 16:55 |
| adamw | +1 | 16:56 |
| tflink | OK, 2 +1s -> objections -> time to go through all of the accepted blockers :-P | 16:56 |
| * tflink is joking | 16:56 | |
| tflink | #topic (852792) [Configure] button in network spoke doesn't work (nm-c-e fails to run) | 16:56 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=852792 | 16:56 |
| tflink | #info Proposed NTH, ASSIGNED | 16:56 |
| tflink | wow, going back and forth between the blocker page mockups and the currently active page is really jarring | 16:58 |
| adamw | well, this seems confused as hell. | 17:00 |
| tflink | it sounds to me like c#12 might be a different bug | 17:01 |
| adamw | yeah | 17:02 |
| adamw | i think i might be able to test this out locally | 17:02 |
| adamw | and provide better info to re-vote later | 17:03 |
| tflink | but I'm OK with the original bug being NTH, assuming that I understand what's going on | 17:03 |
| tflink | works for me | 17:03 |
| adamw | if this is truly why the 'configure' button in liveinst does nothing in the GNOME spin, then yeah, probably +1 | 17:03 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested | 17:04 |
| tflink | this is only lives? | 17:04 |
| tflink | nvm, just potentially related | 17:04 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 17:04 |
| adamw | ack | 17:05 |
| tflink | looks like we may have lost almost everyone else | 17:06 |
| adamw | how could they possibly leave when we're having so much fun?! | 17:06 |
| * jreznik is still here | 17:06 | |
| adamw | i'd like to get at least the next two proposed nth accepted | 17:06 |
| adamw | they're pretty important for non-blocking spins | 17:06 |
| * tflink plays jeopordy music in the bkground | 17:06 | |
| tflink | time's up | 17:07 |
| tflink | #agreed 852792 - There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in the bug about what exactly is going on here - will revisit once the issue is clarified and re-tested | 17:07 |
| tflink | #topic (855465) osmo depends on libsyncml, which currently cannot be installed (f18/rawhide) | 17:07 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855465 | 17:07 |
| tflink | #info Proposed NTH, ON_QA | 17:07 |
| tflink | +1 NTH | 17:08 |
| jreznik | +1 nth, fixed, karma +1 from me | 17:08 |
| adamw | +1 | 17:08 |
| kparal | +1 nth | 17:08 |
| adamw | simples! | 17:08 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. | 17:09 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 17:09 |
| adamw | ack | 17:10 |
| jreznik | ack | 17:10 |
| kparal | ack | 17:10 |
| tflink | #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents creation of LXDE spin which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. | 17:10 |
| tflink | #topic (855470) lxdm should ship a systemd preset to ensure it's enabled after install | 17:10 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855470 | 17:10 |
| tflink | #info Proposed NTH, NEW | 17:10 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of LXDE spin after installation from livecd which becomes NTH as LXDE is a secondary DE. | 17:10 |
| tflink | er, that's not quite right | 17:11 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855465 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. | 17:12 |
| tflink | damnation, I did it again | 17:12 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. | 17:12 |
| tflink | third time's the charm, I suppose | 17:12 |
| tflink | or the hazards of recycling | 17:13 |
| kparal | can I ack now? | 17:13 |
| kparal | is it safe? | 17:13 |
| tflink | it's never safe ... | 17:13 |
| * tflink looks around, all paranoid | 17:13 | |
| adamw | ack | 17:13 |
| jreznik | ack | 17:13 |
| kparal | ack | 17:13 |
| tflink | #agreed 855470 - AcceptedNTH - Prevents booting of graphical DM for LXDE spin after installation from livecd - since violations of F18 release criteria for secondary DEs are NTH by definition. | 17:14 |
| tflink | #topic (855510) TC5: Cannot get past "Booting in ...... in 0 seconds" screen on iMac 2011 (booting from USB) | 17:14 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855510 | 17:14 |
| tflink | #info Proposed NTH, NEW | 17:14 |
| tflink | does this qualify for alpha? | 17:14 |
| tflink | either way, needs more info | 17:15 |
| tflink | USB creation method, mostly | 17:15 |
| kparal | we can test Mac Mini if it helps | 17:15 |
| adamw | TC5 was before some EFI fixes | 17:15 |
| adamw | anyway, yeah, needslotsofinfo | 17:16 |
| kparal | let's give action item to jskladan, he has the Mac on his desk ;-) | 17:16 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful. | 17:17 |
| * kparal loves proposing action items for other people | 17:17 | |
| jskladan | kparal: i se what you did there :) | 17:17 |
| tflink | #action kparal to propose action item to get jskladan to do kparal's work for him | 17:17 |
| kparal | jskladan: you want to play with the Mac anyway, I know you | 17:17 |
| jskladan | aaaaw, that's true :) | 17:18 |
| kparal | he accepted! | 17:18 |
| tflink | anyhow, any ack/nak/patch so we can be done with this meeting? | 17:18 |
| kparal | ack | 17:18 |
| tflink | #undo | 17:18 |
| zodbot | Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x36c49850> | 17:18 |
| jskladan | patch: for 30% of his salary ;) | 17:19 |
| jreznik | ack | 17:19 |
| tflink | #agreed 855510 - This needs much more information before making a decision on NTH - method used for creating the USB stick for one. There have also been EFI related fixes since TC5, retesting with a >= TC6 would also be helpful. | 17:19 |
| tflink | last proposed NTH ... | 17:19 |
| tflink | #topic (855477) Many icons missing when running anaconda within a live Xfce image | 17:19 |
| tflink | #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=855477 | 17:19 |
| tflink | #info Proposed NTH, NEW | 17:19 |
| tflink | +1 NTH | 17:20 |
| kparal | nice pictures | 17:20 |
| kparal | +1 nth | 17:20 |
| jreznik | it's just cosmetic ;) | 17:20 |
| tflink | proposed #agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker. | 17:20 |
| tflink | ack/nak/patch? | 17:21 |
| adamw | fwiw this may be an xfce bug not anaconda | 17:21 |
| adamw | note all the missing icons in the xfce tray | 17:21 |
| adamw | but hey, i'd be +1 nth either way | 17:21 |
| nirik | huh. | 17:21 |
| nirik | I didn't see any of that on the last nightly I tried. | 17:21 |
| kparal | ack | 17:21 |
| * nirik can test again with todays. Recent ones had gdm in them | 17:21 | |
| tflink | other ack/nak/patch? | 17:22 |
| adamw | nirik: yeah, it may depend on exactly waht comps i got | 17:22 |
| * tflink reaches for the spiky 2x4 of timely voting "encouragement" | 17:23 | |
| nirik | ack | 17:23 |
| tflink | #agreed 855477 - AcceptedNTH - While the installer is still usable in XFCE, it looks terrible and looks broken. XFCE is a non-primary DE and thus, this is not a blocker. | 17:24 |
| tflink | OK, that would be all of the proposed blockers and NTH on my list | 17:24 |
| tflink | and since we seem to have lost most interest, I do believe that we're done with the "mini" blocker review | 17:24 |
| jreznik | "mini" :) | 17:24 |
| adamw | whew | 17:25 |
| adamw | thanks tflink | 17:25 |
| adamw | i propose we just end this meeting here, since we've lost a lot of people | 17:25 |
| adamw | i don't see any value in discussing criteria changes with this few bodies | 17:25 |
| adamw | let's do this just in case.... | 17:26 |
| tflink | agreed | 17:26 |
| * kparal sees corpses all around... | 17:26 | |
| adamw | #info release criteria topic is postponed due to length of previous segment and lack of people | 17:26 |
| adamw | #topic open floor | 17:26 |
| adamw | anyone for open floor? | 17:26 |
| * jreznik is corpse now... | 17:26 | |
| * tflink will have a new draft of the blocker tracking page to send out (hopefully) soon | 17:26 | |
| tflink | looks lots different from the previous versions | 17:27 |
| jreznik | what bits we currently miss for rc? | 17:27 |
| adamw | jreznik: a new anaconda build is all really | 17:28 |
| adamw | though we might need to do something about partitioning | 17:28 |
| * adamw sets fuse for 3 mins | 17:30 | |
| nirik | adamw: I see icons fine in todays nightly xfce... | 17:31 |
| nirik | so might have been some comps issue or something. | 17:31 |
| adamw | do nightlies use updates-testing? | 17:31 |
| nirik | no | 17:33 |
| adamw | probably comps then yeah. | 17:33 |
| adamw | we'll see what tc7/rc1 spits out. | 17:33 |
| * nirik nods | 17:33 | |
| adamw | okay! | 17:36 |
| adamw | let's get back to something vaguely resembling work | 17:36 |
| adamw | thanks for coming all | 17:36 |
| adamw | #endmeeting | 17:36 |
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