QA/Meetings/20121112

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Contents

Attendees

  • tflink (87)
  • kparal (84)
  • Viking-Ice (34)
  • jreznik (26)
  • dan408_ (17)
  • zodbot (8)
  • mkrizek (7)
  • nirik (5)
  • herlo (4)
  • dlehman (4)
  • pschindl1 (4)
  • brunowolff (3)
  • Guest85807 (3)
  • jskladan (1)
  • jreznik_n9 (1)
  • akshayvyas (1)
  • satellit (1)

Agenda

  • Previous meeting follow-up
  • Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review
  • Open floor

Previous meeting follow-up

  • adamw to finally finish drafting revised partitioning criteria - was not yet done
  • adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback - this was done

Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review

  • Beta had been unfrozen until at least 2012-11-13
  • fedup status was still unknown

Mini blocker review

  • #872833 was accepted as a blocker per partitioning criteria
  • #873762 was accepted as a blocker per install completion criterion for Chinese
  • #875003 was rejected as a blocker due to not being severe enough

Open floor

N/A

IRC Log

kparal #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Nov 12 16:00:32 2012 UTC. The chair is kparal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
kparal #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
kparal #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:00
kparal #chair tflink 16:00
zodbot Current chairs: kparal tflink 16:00
kparal #topic roll call 16:00
* tflink is here 16:00
kparal hands up! 16:01
* mkrizek is here 16:01
kparal adamw has a vacation day, he's excused 16:01
* jskladan lurks 16:01
* akshayvyas is here 16:01
Viking-Ice here 16:02
* jreznik_n9 is semi ready 16:02
* nirik is lurking 16:02
kparal pschindl: don't quit on us! 16:02
* pschindl1 is here 16:03
* satellit listening 16:03
* tflink wonders if pschindl was cloned suddenly 16:03
dan408_ here 16:03
tflink  :-D 16:03
dan408_ 25% here 16:03
dan408_ building packages 16:03
Viking-Ice jreznik_n9, is that clone number 9 ? 16:04
kparal welcome everyone. let's start 16:04
dan408_ where is adamw? 16:04
* tflink assumes that it is his phone 16:04
kparal dan408_: vacation day in Canada 16:04
dan408_ ah veteran's day 16:04
dan408_ k 16:04
kparal #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:04
tflink dan408_: armistice day in canada, as far as I know 16:04
dan408_ same thing 16:04
kparal #info adamw to finally finish drafting revised partitioning criteria 16:04
dan408_ different name 16:05
tflink I don't believe this has been done 16:05
dan408_ nope 16:05
tflink lack of available time 16:05
kparal he's so lazy, let's fire him 16:05
kparal .fire adamw 16:05
zodbot adamw fires adamw 16:05
dan408_ no lets hire dan408 fulltime 16:05
dan408_ he'll file everything as blocker bugs 16:05
kparal ok, another one 16:06
kparal #info adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback 16:06
kparal this was done 16:06
tflink as far as I know, this is done 16:06
kparal #info adamw to push security criterion into 'production' after waiting a few more days for feedback -- done 16:06
kparal ok, that's the previous week 16:06
kparal #topic Fedora 18 Beta status / mini blocker review 16:07
kparal so, first of all, Beta has been unfrozen 16:07
kparal the next Beta Change Deadline seems to be 2012-11-13 16:08
dan408_ thank god 16:08
kparal which is tomorrow 16:08
dan408_ please push that back 16:08
kparal I thought it was unfrozen for two weeks? 16:08
kparal jreznik might know more 16:08
kparal anyway, we're not frozen at the moment 16:08
Viking-Ice hm I thought so also 16:08
jreznik kparal: fesco agreed to freeze tentative tmrw 16:08
kparal jreznik: so tomorrow you will decide whether to continue unfrozen or not? 16:09
jreznik slip for two weeks 16:09
jreznik kparal: in case of no objections, freeze is tmrw 16:09
tflink jreznik: so we need to voice concerns about re-freezing today, if we have any? 16:09
jreznik tflink: yep 16:09
tflink bah, I thought we had another week 16:09
kparal #info Beta was unfrozen, on 2012-11-13 there will be another Beta freeze if there are no objections 16:09
tflink jreznik: do you know of a fesco ticket off hand? 16:10
jreznik tflink: no, that was more - compromise - unfreeze for week but slip two weeks 16:10
nirik theres not one, feel free to file a new one... but please be specific. 16:10
jreznik tflink: file a ticket in case you think it's needed 16:10
jreznik I' 16:10
Viking-Ice was not a week to short time 16:10
Viking-Ice <sigh> 16:10
* tflink is still concerned about fedup 16:10
* Viking-Ice to 16:11
jreznik the only concern now is fedup and it's really hard to get any updates :((( 16:11
Guest85807 There was already updates backed up, so it was more than a week's worth of updates. 16:11
* jreznik is writing another mail to david as did not receive any input from will 16:11
tflink jreznik: yeah, I'm planning to poke for status on a few bugs today 16:11
Viking-Ice I would not be surprised if will took this as an two week unfreeze like the rest of us 16:11
jreznik tflink: I'm trying too, got some response 16:12
Guest85807 Since fedup is blocking things, I think updates will get through. 16:12
tflink Viking-Ice: there's plenty to be done, I doubt that anyone is sitting around for the week or two 16:12
tflink Guest85807: I think that jreznik was talking about status updates from the fedup devel(s) 16:12
Viking-Ice yup 16:12
jreznik the thing is more when is the last time to file the ticket so fesco could vote, nirik? 16:13
jreznik and I'll nag to get more input from fedup side :( 16:14
nirik jreznik: tomorrow morning sometime I guess? 16:14
* jreznik is really fed up from fedup communication 16:14
* kparal notes it is a great project name 16:14
kparal #info fedup status is still largely unknown 16:15
jreznik well, I'll try to get an update and in case there would be no way how to get fedup ready, I'll file the ticket to not freeze 16:15
kparal ok, thanks jreznik. anything else to the topic, or should we move to the mini-blocker review? 16:16
jreznik just the question is - what's the criteria we consider fedup not a problem... 16:17
tflink jreznik: you mean how done does fedup need to be before it doesn't block release from a QA perspective? 16:18
kparal jreznik: the criteria says: For each one of the release-blocking package sets ('minimal', and the package sets for each one of the release-blocking desktops), it must be possible to successfully complete an upgrade from a fully updated installation of the previous stable Fedora release with that package set installed, using any officially recommended upgrade mechanisms. The upgraded system must meet all release criteria. 16:18
* nirik notes that freeze also doesn't mean there are no blockers. 16:18
tflink the cli would need to work for F17 -> F18 upgrades in most situations, the initramfs used would need to be created by releng (less of a QA issue, though) 16:19
jreznik nirik: yep, definitely but we froze mostly because of fedup - if there's no change in fedup state... 16:19
dan408_ sorry wasn't paying attention 16:19
jreznik but still I'd prefer to continue with Beta 16:19
dan408_ are we pushing back the change deadline? 16:19
tflink AFAIK, releng won't take much of anything outside the initramfs being built in lorax. This will require a change to that code which I don't believe has been done 16:20
jreznik email written 16:20
kparal when I think about it, I think it should be sufficient to at least one of GUI/CLI method to work for Beta. but that would have to be discussed properly 16:20
jreznik tflink: I asked dgilmore last week and wwoods have not talk to him yet... 16:20
tflink kparal: GUI isn't going to be done for beta 16:21
kparal tflink: ah, ok 16:21
jreznik tflink: and then we have that blocker bug, our systemd guys do not know the part, I sent an email to lennart, but I don't see him online to ping... 16:21
dan408_ change deadline? anyone? 16:21
Viking-Ice fedup with and or cli/gui 16:21
nirik dan408_: nothing is changing right now. 16:21
dan408_ k 16:21
kparal jreznik: he has some weird irc nick, mezcalero or similar 16:22
jreznik kparal: I know 16:22
tflink jreznik: yeah, I was going to ask if anything was needed in the major blocker bug 16:22
jreznik so we need this bug sorted out + releng stuff should not be difficult, we just need wwoods be working with relengs... otherwise the blocker situation is not bad 16:23
tflink BTW, if you decide to test fedup, please read the testing wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA%3AFedora_18_Upgrade_Testing 16:23
jreznik (even looking on proposed ones) 16:23
tflink knowing that it isn't going to work right now 16:24
tflink not without system recovery, anyways 16:24
jreznik due to the unmount/sync bug, right 16:24
tflink yeah 16:24
tflink leads to a non-bootable upgraded system 16:25
tflink until the kernel and/or initramfs are redone 16:25
* tflink should probably detail instructions for that in the wiki page 16:25
Viking-Ice kparal, Lennart goes under poettering formaly known as mezcalero 16:26
tflink ok, are we ready for some blocker review, then? 16:27
kparal tflink: do you have your magic scripts ready? 16:27
jreznik Viking-Ice: chamaeleo :) 16:27
jreznik tflink: yep 16:27
tflink magic scripts? 16:28
* tflink really needs to update the blocker meeting SOP - another item for the TODO list :-/ 16:28
tflink #topic (874276) 'Reclaim space' button never goes active on guided space reclaim dialog when installing in German, French, possibly others (18.24, 18.26) 16:28
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=874276 16:28
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, VERIFIED 16:28
kparal should we skip verified bugs? 16:29
kparal it's already fixed anyway, and anaconda 18.28 is pending stable 16:29
tflink sorry, wasn't looking for that in the proposed blockers 16:29
tflink #undo 16:30
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tflink #topic (872833) ValueError: Cannot remove non-leaf device 'fedora' 16:30
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=872833 16:30
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, ASSIGNED 16:30
kparal so, there is a problem with creating LVs in existing VGs in custom mode 16:32
tflink this looks like a tb when trying to reuse a partition? 16:32
tflink kparal: not sure that the first reporter was trying to do that 16:32
kparal I'm referring to comment 21 16:32
tflink yeah, I think that's different from the original reporter 16:33
kparal dlehman: discussing 872833 16:33
kparal I see 16:34
* dlehman wonders if all reproducers involve adding a mountpoint with no size spec 16:34
kparal comment 19 is a really simple reproducer 16:34
Viking-Ice hmm should not 868505 be a proposed blocker as well? 16:35
kparal it could be related to having empty size spec 16:35
kparal so, this bug seems pretty easy to hit 16:36
dlehman yes, it's triggered by empty size spec 16:36
kparal and it seems to violate " Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing " 16:36
kparal or " Creating, destroying and assigning mount points to partitions of any specified size using most commonly-used filesystem types " 16:36
Viking-Ice yup 16:36
kparal not providing a size is not strictly invalid operation 16:37
kparal so if this is the real cause, I think this should be a Beta blocker 16:38
tflink proposed #agreed 872833 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 beta release criterion: "The installer's custom partitioning mode must be capable of the following ... Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing" 16:38
tflink I really dislike the formatting of the new partitioning release criterion 16:38
tflink but that's a small concern, I suppose 16:39
dlehman there are two pieces: 1) magic handling of empty size spec is broken and 2) error handling in the path where #1 manifests is not completely correct 16:39
kparal dlehman: do you agree this should be fixed for Beta? 16:40
dlehman yes, absolutely 16:40
kparal tflink: hey, and you can vote too, the fact that you handle the voting system doesn't mean you don't have a vote :) 16:40
kparal ack 16:40
* kparal pokes everyone around 16:41
tflink kparal: I know, I do vote. I just tend not to when everyone seems to be going the same direction 16:41
Viking-Ice ack 16:41
pschindl1 ack 16:42
tflink #agreed 872833 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 beta release criterion: "The installer's custom partitioning mode must be capable of the following ... Rejecting obviously invalid operations without crashing" 16:42
tflink #topic (873762) [zh_CN] [zh_TW] installer hangs in Installation Summary when keyboard spoke clicked 16:42
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=873762 16:42
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, POST 16:42
tflink how many languages does this affect? 16:44
kparal two variations of chinese 16:45
kparal since the translation coverage is high, it's reasonable to assume we have lots of Chinese users 16:45
kparal it can affect other languages too, we just don't know about it 16:46
tflink yeah, that was what I was wondering about 16:46
tflink but I suspect that both chinese variants are almost enough to block 16:46
tflink at the very least, I'm +1 NTH 16:46
Viking-Ice +1 blocker 16:46
tflink any other votes? 16:47
kparal since it is a showstopper, I think +1 blocker is more appropriate 16:47
Viking-Ice yeah and kinda affects the major of the population off the planet  :) 16:48
Guest85807 +1 blocker 16:48
Viking-Ice mean on the planet 16:48
kparal Guest85807: maybe you can rename to your FAS name, so that you're a bit less anonymous? :) 16:48
kparal thanks 16:48
brunowolff I forgot to authenticate and didn't nptice I had gotten changed to a guest 16:49
* kparal pokes jskladan pschindl1 mkrizek 16:49
mkrizek +1 blocker 16:49
pschindl1 +1 blocker 16:50
tflink proposed #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "In most cases (see Blocker_Bug_FAQ), a system installed according to any of the above criteria must boot to the 'firstboot' utility on the first boot after installation, without unintended user intervention, unless the user explicitly chooses to boot in non-graphical mode ..." 16:50
tflink ack/nak/patch? 16:51
Viking-Ice ack 16:51
pschindl1 ack 16:51
mkrizek ack 16:51
kparal hmm, the installer actually hangs. is this the best criterion? 16:51
tflink patch? 16:51
tflink it hangs during install, right? 16:52
tflink oh, I might have misread this 16:52
kparal tflink: I think it hangs on the hub screen 16:52
kparal so maybe " The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces " 16:52
tflink yeah, I was reading "installation summary" as the screen when pkgs etc. are being installed 16:52
Viking-Ice comment 4 it hangs 16:52
tflink proposed #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces" 16:53
kparal ack 16:53
Viking-Ice ack 16:53
mkrizek ack 16:54
tflink yeah, I was reading "installation summary" as the screen when pkgs etc. a 16:54
tflink wow, I missed 16:54
tflink #agreed 873762 - AcceptedBlocker - Violates the following F18 alpha release criterion for Chinese users (zh_cn, zh_tw) - "The installer must be able to complete an installation using the text, graphical and VNC installation interfaces" 16:54
tflink sorry, getting pulled into a discussion about fedup 16:55
tflink #topic (875003) after setting invalid installation source, "closest mirror" is broken 16:55
tflink #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=875003 16:55
tflink #info Proposed Blocker, anaconda, NEW 16:55
Viking-Ice +1 nth 16:55
Viking-Ice kparal, this does just affect those that type invalid repo right 16:56
Viking-Ice btw which criteria is this supposed to affect 16:57
kparal Viking-Ice: yes, you have to provide invalid repo to cause this bug 16:57
Viking-Ice if people arent going to be paying attention during the blocker bug meeting we can just as well stop it now 16:57
kparal but afterwards, reverting to closest mirror breaks package selection 16:57
kparal comment 9 says how to fix it, I didn't know 16:58
Viking-Ice so there is a workaround 16:58
kparal there is always a workaround, don't provide invalid repos :) 16:58
Viking-Ice  ;) 16:59
tflink I'm not sure about blocker, though 16:59
Viking-Ice I'm +1 nth 16:59
tflink if you mistype the repo, you could restart the installation 16:59
tflink even if there was no workaround 16:59
Viking-Ice yup 16:59
kparal tflink: actually I think if you mistype the repo and then correct it, it works 16:59
kparal tflink: it's broken just for the "revert to closest mirror" use case 16:59
kparal from what I understand from comment 9 17:00
Viking-Ice which criteria is this supposed to affect? 17:00
kparal so I'm also more inclined to just +1 nth now 17:00
tflink then -1 blocker, +0.5 NTH 17:00
mkrizek -1 blocker 17:00
kparal Viking-Ice: well I assumed almost any, like " The installer must be able to use at least one of the HTTP or FTP remote package source options " 17:00
Viking-Ice yeah but none of them mentioned closest mirror has to work 17:01
brunowolff -1 blocker 17:01
kparal Viking-Ice: no, it's not exactly written out that way 17:01
kparal let's vote on NTH as well 17:01
tflink I'm not so sure about NTH, now that I think about it harder 17:01
Viking-Ice there is the risk factor 17:02
tflink the workaround is OK, worst case, you need to reboot and restart the install 17:02
Viking-Ice yeah 17:02
tflink but assuming that one reads the release notes/commonbugs, you'd be able to figure out that you need to fix the typo 17:02
kparal well, that workaround applies for many bugs accepted as nth, even as blockers. but I understand the concerns, it's late in the cycle 17:03
brunowolff I don't think I'd want to take an update with just a fix for this, but don't feel so strongly about having a fix for this pulled in with some other blocker fix. 17:03
tflink any other thoughts? 17:04
tflink I'm slightly -1 NTH on this 17:04
Viking-Ice yeah changing to -1 nth 17:04
tflink I think that the odds of getting a user on beta who is using a custom repo location, types it wrong and doesn't read the docs is not so bad 17:04
tflink not so likely, rather 17:04
mkrizek I am for -1 NTH as well 17:05
kparal alright 17:05
kparal tflink: oh, should I be doing the secretary? 17:05
tflink proposed #agreed 875003 - RejectedBlocker, RejectedNTH - While an annoyance, this does not seem to be likely or severe enough to justify blocker or NTH status. A relatively painless workaround exists. 17:06
tflink kparal: if you'd like, sure. otherwise, I'll do it after the meeting 17:06
* herlo asks how long this meeting is planned to go on. Usually FAmSCo meets here at this time. 17:06
kparal herlo: ouch, sorry 17:06
tflink herlo: sorry, we can wrap up 17:07
kparal let's finish the voting and move to #fedora-qa 17:07
kparal ack 17:07
Viking-Ice or just move to QA ( as I always say ) 17:07
Viking-Ice ack 17:07
tflink ack/nak/patch? 17:07
mkrizek ack 17:07
herlo well, do you guys normally go on this long? Or are we bumping up against each other? 17:07
* herlo is happy to move to another room if necessary 17:07
tflink #agreed 875003 - RejectedBlocker, RejectedNTH - While an annoyance, this does not seem to be likely or severe enough to justify blocker or NTH status. A relatively painless workaround exists. 17:07
tflink herlo: depends on the time of year and if we're trying to reveiw blocker bugs or not 17:07
kparal herlo: normally we go longer, but we had 2 hours before summer time ended 17:07
kparal ok, let's move to #fedora-qa 17:08
herlo kparal: okay, thanks. We'll discuss in our meeting to move to another room as well. 17:08
kparal #endmeeting 17:08

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