From Fedora Project Wiki
Attendees
- adamw (139)
- tflink (90)
- Viking-Ice (44)
- jreznik (12)
- roshi (11)
- satellit_e (9)
- zodbot (7)
- halfline (7)
- bitlord (6)
- pwhalen (5)
- drago01_ (3)
- ignatenkobrain (2)
- brunowolff (1)
Agenda
- Previous meeting follow-up
- Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective
- Fedora 20 Beta planning
- Open floor
Previous meeting follow-up
- pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2 - this was likely done, by the time of the meeting had become irrelevant
- tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done - this was done, tim did some testing on RC4 AMIs
- tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI - not done, though the bug got fixed: we still needed to figure out where to file such bugs, as the cloud image kickstarts are not part of a Fedora package (yet?)
- tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta - proposal was posted
Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective
- Fedora 20 Alpha was signed off and planned for release the day after the meeting
- Common bugs entries need writing: adamw and roshi would work on it
- Looked like things were mostly in place for ARM and cloud image publication
Fedora 20 Beta planning
- tflink suggested that we should do some gnome-on-wayland testing
- First Beta blocker meeting would go ahead on Wednesday 09-25
- TC1 scheduled for 10-01 (next Tuesday), go/no-go for 10-24
Open floor
- We agreed we should look at ways to tie cloud SIG into validation testing more closely and verify their work
Action items
- tflink to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro
- adamw to get F20 common bugs page up and populated
- adamw to send the update criteria to 'production'
- adamw to check if any further criteria changes are needed to beta/final for arm/cloud
IRC Log
| tflink | #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting | 15:01 |
|---|---|---|
| zodbot | Meeting started Mon Sep 23 15:01:02 2013 UTC. The chair is tflink. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| zodbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. | 15:01 |
| tflink | #meetingname fedora-qa | 15:01 |
| zodbot | The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' | 15:01 |
| tflink | #topic Roll Call | 15:01 |
| tflink | #chair adamw | 15:01 |
| zodbot | Current chairs: adamw tflink | 15:01 |
| adamw | ahoyhoy | 15:01 |
| adamw | meeting thief | 15:01 |
| adamw | :P | 15:01 |
| * pwhalen is here | 15:01 | |
| tflink | if I would have known you were around, I would have waited :) | 15:01 |
| tflink | I can end the meeting so that you can start it, if that would make you feel better | 15:02 |
| roshi | is here | 15:04 |
| tflink | we'll be missing all the brno folks today | 15:04 |
| * roshi | 15:04 | |
| adamw | ah, public holiday? | 15:04 |
| adamw | tflink: no, fine by me | 15:04 |
| tflink | team building stuff | 15:04 |
| ignatenkobrain | hey | 15:05 |
| ignatenkobrain | what's meeting today ? | 15:05 |
| adamw | horrible creatures | 15:05 |
| adamw | terrible, terrible things that should never see the light of day | 15:06 |
| tflink | pretty much, yeah :) | 15:06 |
| * jreznik is here | 15:06 | |
| * adamw wonders if viking_ice is hiding in the woods near the team-building exercise in full viking war mode | 15:06 | |
| tflink | that brings strange visuals to mind | 15:07 |
| jreznik | no team building - this year only for devels and qa to make theirs life together better, nicer, sweeter :) | 15:07 |
| adamw | oh god, i hope somebody called 112 | 15:09 |
| * adamw imagines CNN crew arriving on scene | 15:09 | |
| adamw | "My god! Can somebody tell me what plane crashed here?" | 15:09 |
| adamw | "No plane crash. Only team building exercises." | 15:09 |
| tflink | reminds me of my old job when we had a kickball tournament | 15:10 |
| adamw | welp, let's see | 15:10 |
| jreznik | qa collided with devels | 15:10 |
| tflink | a couple of people ended up in the hospital | 15:10 |
| tflink | and that was the last time we were allowed to have a kickball tournament :) | 15:10 |
| adamw | they were the lucky ones? :) | 15:10 |
| * roshi must have always worked at the wrong place. They never tried to build a team... :p | 15:11 | |
| tflink | not really, some of them needed physical therapy and took months to recover fully | 15:11 |
| jreznik | tflink: well, year ago we played football (our, european one) against some school trip guys and the amount of blood, when members of our team hit themselves... | 15:11 |
| adamw | welp, i guess we have enough people to roll through the agenda | 15:11 |
| adamw | #topic Previous meeting follow-up | 15:13 |
| adamw | "pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2" - well, one way or another we got past that | 15:13 |
| adamw | #info "pschindl to send out karma/testing request for not-yet-stable updates in RC2" - probably done, now stale | 15:13 |
| adamw | "tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done" - assume that was done too? | 15:13 |
| tflink | jreznik: so the moral of this story is nerds + sports == injury :) | 15:13 |
| tflink | yeah, I did some testing on the RC4 AMIs | 15:13 |
| adamw | #info "tflink to make sure some cloud testing is getting done" - done, tim did some testing on RC4 AMIs | 15:14 |
| adamw | "tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI" - so i presume that was done too? | 15:14 |
| tflink | yeah, we should probably make a new list of stuff that needs karma | 15:14 |
| tflink | adamw: nope, it got fixed without the blocker bug | 15:14 |
| tflink | never did figure out where to file that | 15:14 |
| jreznik | would be great to figure it out | 15:15 |
| tflink | it was fixed in the cloud ks | 15:15 |
| jreznik | (where to file such cases) | 15:15 |
| adamw | oh kay | 15:15 |
| adamw | #info "tflink to file blocker bug about DOA i386 AMI" - not done, though the bug got fixed: still need to figure out where to file such bugs | 15:15 |
| adamw | where does the cloud ks live? | 15:15 |
| adamw | is it part of spin-kickstarts? | 15:16 |
| tflink | good question | 15:16 |
| jreznik | as it went out of our radar a few times and there was no formal blocker decision... | 15:16 |
| tflink | looks like a separate repo | 15:16 |
| tflink | commit messages go out to cloud@ | 15:16 |
| jreznik | yep, it's not in spin-kickstarts | 15:16 |
| adamw | well, wherever it is, it probably needs to be packaged for self-hosting purposes... | 15:17 |
| tflink | https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/cloud-kickstarts.git | 15:17 |
| adamw | #action tflink to talk to releng about where to file bugs in the cloud .ks and whether it needs to be packaged in the distro | 15:17 |
| * satellit_e joined late | 15:18 | |
| adamw | "tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta" | 15:19 |
| adamw | i think you agreed to do that, right? | 15:19 |
| tflink | that happened, was waiting for some more +1s before moving to criteria wiki pages | 15:19 |
| adamw | it does leave us in the rather interesting position that we don't directly require the optical ISO to, er, boot at all in alpha | 15:19 |
| tflink | not unless it's properly sized | 15:20 |
| brunowolff | It's cheaper to test with USB drives. | 15:20 |
| adamw | tflink: true | 15:20 |
| tflink | who's going to burn alpha to a DL DVD or a BD-R, anyways | 15:20 |
| adamw | dl dvds aren't THAT hard to get a hold of, but yeah. | 15:21 |
| * satellit_e I still think we should issue 2 DVD's with different DE and basics so both were under DVD max size | 15:21 | |
| jreznik | and size is hard to get properly for alpha... | 15:21 |
| tflink | they're not hard to find but they're expensive | 15:21 |
| adamw | satellit: not really relevant to this discussion, though. it'd still be possible for one of them to go over. | 15:21 |
| tflink | not cost prohibitive, but I'd still question why anyone would do that with alpha | 15:21 |
| adamw | people do weird things | 15:22 |
| adamw | but hey | 15:22 |
| adamw | changes look good to me | 15:22 |
| adamw | i'd say fire away | 15:22 |
| adamw | #info "tflink to propose moving 'boot from optical media' criterion from alpha to beta" - proposal was posted: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2013-September/117799.html | 15:23 |
| adamw | any follow-up i'm missing, having been away? | 15:23 |
| tflink | not that I'm aware of, no | 15:24 |
| tflink | the app installer thing that we were being volunteered for went away | 15:24 |
| drago01_ | testing "optical media" | 15:25 |
| drago01_ | is very easy to do with a vm | 15:25 |
| tflink | drago01_: not the same thing | 15:26 |
| adamw | drago01_: we've come across corner cases where the image hasn't worked right when written to an actual disc in the past, and it's something we always want to test explicitly | 15:26 |
| adamw | tflink: well i'm bringing that up later anyhow | 15:27 |
| drago01_ | ok | 15:27 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 20 Alpha final work and retrospective | 15:27 |
| adamw | #info Fedora 20 Alpha was approved and will go out tomorrow: nice job all | 15:27 |
| adamw | looks like i just get in the way, huh | 15:27 |
| adamw | so the obvious action item that we need to get done today is to get commonbugs up | 15:28 |
| adamw | #action adamw to get F20 common bugs page up and populated | 15:28 |
| adamw | if anyone wants to help write entries, please do | 15:28 |
| adamw | roshi: have you worked on commonbugs at all yet? | 15:28 |
| roshi | nope | 15:28 |
| roshi | or, if I have I didn't know it | 15:28 |
| adamw | roshi: maybe i'll rope you in to help with that | 15:28 |
| adamw | oh, you'd know it :P | 15:28 |
| roshi | haha | 15:28 |
| adamw | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F19_bugs | 15:28 |
| roshi | works for me | 15:28 |
| tflink | i created the skeleton page | 15:28 |
| adamw | tflink: thanks | 15:28 |
| tflink | but didn't actually write anything meaningful in it :) | 15:29 |
| adamw | so, anyone think of anything else we need to check in on before tomorrow? | 15:29 |
| tflink | not really | 15:29 |
| adamw | guess we might want to double check everything's lined up to publish the arm and cloud images | 15:31 |
| adamw | though it'd really be fpm or fpl stuff i think :P | 15:31 |
| tflink | yeah, it looked like the "first class cloud" stuff was done with websites last I checked | 15:31 |
| tflink | but agreed that it would be worth looking into | 15:31 |
| jreznik | website guys are working on the support, I expect it should be ok (trying to follow it up) | 15:31 |
| pwhalen | I'll write up the arm install instructions today, there is a place holder there that needs some edits | 15:33 |
| adamw | cool, thanks | 15:33 |
| jreznik | #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-websites/ticket/229 | 15:33 |
| adamw | #info looks like things are mostly in place for ARM and cloud image publication | 15:33 |
| pwhalen | adamw, if i come across something for common bugs, I'll also add to the page you mentioned | 15:34 |
| adamw | pwhalen: you should also mark it with the CommonBugs keyword and if you add it into the page, add the URL to Whiteboard | 15:34 |
| adamw | helps with tracking | 15:34 |
| pwhalen | adamw, okay, will do | 15:35 |
| adamw | this is explained in the comments to the commonbugs wiki source, which apparently no-one ever reads | 15:35 |
| pwhalen | :) | 15:35 |
| adamw | #info no-one can think of much else that needs doing for Alpha prep | 15:37 |
| adamw | #topic Fedora 20 Beta planning | 15:37 |
| * Viking-Ice is doing team building exercise | 15:38 | |
| adamw | anything anyone can think of going forward for beta that we should consider now? any lessons from alpha cycle - criteria changes we need to do, test cases that needs fixing/adding? | 15:38 |
| satellit_e | the test matrix needs work . spins particularly https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_20_Alpha_RC4_Desktop#Non_release-blocking_desktops:_x86_.2F_x86_64 | 15:38 |
| tflink | has anyone tried out gnome+wayland? | 15:38 |
| satellit_e | also The test page link needs to be prominently displayed on the install page : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Spins as it is critical for the spin release being done. "yes" in right collums being criteria. | 15:38 |
| tflink | the test case problem from alpha (updates.img) was fixed, IIRC | 15:39 |
| tflink | yeah, pschindl created a new updates.img | 15:39 |
| bitlord | tflink, I wanted to try ti because it shows up in gdm sessions, but later I heard gdm cannot start shell on wayland yet | 15:39 |
| * jreznik has to leave now... will be online later to track alpha readiness :) | 15:39 | |
| adamw | satellit: when you say 'needs work', you mean we need to do the testing? or the matrix itself is busted? | 15:40 |
| adamw | tflink: not yet, probably a good idea | 15:40 |
| tflink | bitlord: ok, I thought it was working for the most part | 15:40 |
| bitlord | tflink, it is possible to do it from terminal I think, but no command here, have it on another machine in IRC log from #gnome-shell @gimpnet | 15:40 |
| adamw | #info tflink suggests that we should do some gnome-on-wayland testing | 15:40 |
| satellit_e | the matrix is not very relevant for Soas,,, | 15:40 |
| satellit_e | http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Fedora_19-sugar_test_cases is list I did of f19 | 15:40 |
| satellit_e | for* | 15:41 |
| tflink | secureboot | 15:42 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, I actually was hoping for the venue for gnome+wayland would be Gnome-SIG product so it would not be disruptive to the general desktop product to prevent us having to relive the graphics driver disruption all over again but but hey RH Desktop team successfully shot that down | 15:42 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: it's only planned as a preview for F20 | 15:42 |
| adamw | satellit: oh right, and i never got around to fiddling it into the matrix :( maybe you should do it, heh | 15:42 |
| satellit_e | ok will do so if it is oK | 15:43 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: right, i think we just want to check it out so we know roughly where it's at and can answer questions | 15:43 |
| tflink | I just think it'll get a decent amount of attention if it mostly works and would be worth the time to poke at it and make sure it isn't completely busted | 15:43 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, as an desktop product even as a preview it would have to pass our test matrix | 15:43 |
| adamw | satellit: if you edit it into the template page i can have a look over and let you know if it looks ok to me if you want | 15:43 |
| satellit_e | ok will work on it thanks | 15:43 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i don't see it that way...it's explicitly listed as a preview in f20 | 15:43 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, irrelevant release blocking desktop | 15:44 |
| Viking-Ice | hence one of the reason for the Gnome SIG | 15:44 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: wayland isn't release blocking for f20, though | 15:44 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: the fact that it's a release-blocking desktop doesn't mean we require absolutely every bit of code it contains to work. | 15:44 |
| adamw | i don't think anyone besides you is working on the basis that gnome-on-wayland is release blocking for f20...:) | 15:44 |
| adamw | i certainly haven't been | 15:44 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, good for you | 15:45 |
| tflink | same here, I really doubt that it'll be ready for everyday usage for F20 | 15:45 |
| adamw | no-one else seems to be under that impression either from what i've seen | 15:45 |
| halfline | bitlord: indeed, i didn't get the start wayland from GDM code ready in time for feature freeze | 15:47 |
| halfline | it's sitting on a branch, but unfinished | 15:47 |
| adamw | so as things stand we're scheduled to go straight for a blocker meeting on wednesday | 15:47 |
| tflink | do we have any proposed blockers? | 15:47 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, well based on fesco dictating how they go about things I cannot see how no one does not see it that way | 15:47 |
| adamw | yeah | 15:47 |
| adamw | https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/20/beta/buglist | 15:47 |
| Viking-Ice | <sigh> Anaconda really always that much | 15:48 |
| * tflink changes current to beta | 15:48 | |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: i don't really see that anything written down anywhere says gnome-on-wayland would be release blocking. it's not absolutely explicitly specified in the criteria pages that it only applies to X, but then it doesn't state that it applies to all graphical servers either. | 15:48 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, well we are always changing the criteria anyway so let's adjusted the invevitable now | 15:49 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: we could explicitly specify it, i suppose, but there does have to be a common-sense line *somewhere* | 15:49 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, that line we move every release cycle even during the testing phase so... | 15:50 |
| adamw | or else i'd have to write stuff like 'on the default display server, so long as a keyboard is plugged in, and you have enough memory, and you're not remoting your desktop via RFC 1149...' | 15:50 |
| adamw | it's not really practical to encode EVERY goddamn assumption or you wind up writing eu food safety legislation :P | 15:51 |
| Viking-Ice | well hopefully I manage to kill the gnome tunnel vision in the project and we in QA start focusing strictly on the installer and the core/baseOS | 15:51 |
| adamw | that's really kind of a separate question | 15:51 |
| adamw | anyhow | 15:51 |
| adamw | sounds like blocker meeting on wed makes sense | 15:51 |
| adamw | #info first Beta blocker meeting will go ahead on Wednesday 09-25 | 15:51 |
| tflink | yeah, makes sense to have one - already have several proposed blockers | 15:52 |
| * adamw thinks any day you can work a reference to RFC 1149 into the conversation is a good day | 15:52 | |
| adamw | TC1 is scheduled for 10-01, next tuesday | 15:52 |
| * tflink makes mental note to avoid conversations with adamw | 15:52 | |
| adamw | certainly early enough | 15:52 |
| bitlord | halfline, ok, but would be nice to have somewhere in documentation how to test wayland on fedora (as technology preview, or how they call those things which aren't features ;-) | 15:53 |
| adamw | go/no-go is 10-24 | 15:53 |
| adamw | #info TC1 scheduled for 10-01 (next Tuesday), go/no-go for 10-24 | 15:53 |
| adamw | .fire tflink | 15:53 |
| zodbot | adamw fires tflink | 15:53 |
| adamw | insubordination! | 15:53 |
| halfline | bitlord: yea makes sense | 15:54 |
| bitlord | halfline, and probably "hide" it from gdm sessions, so people don't get confused when trying and it doesn't work, so no unneeded bugs reported | 15:54 |
| halfline | though i'm hoping to get a f20 update out that enables testing when it's ready | 15:54 |
| Viking-Ice | so any known criteria alteration we need to do before we start the beta process | 15:54 |
| bitlord | halfline, /me not a qa member, just do some testing sometimes ;-) | 15:55 |
| adamw | i need to put the update criteria change into production i guess | 15:55 |
| adamw | bitlord: that pretty much makes you a qa member :P | 15:55 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, as soon as yesterday | 15:55 |
| Viking-Ice | ;) | 15:55 |
| bitlord | adamw, hehe, thanks ;-) | 15:55 |
| adamw | #action adamw to send the update criteria to 'production' | 15:55 |
| tflink | adamw: you forgot to put the reason into the .fire :) | 15:55 |
| halfline | in retrospect the wayland session file probably shouldn't be in /usr/share/xsessions | 15:55 |
| adamw | .fire tflink again: nitpicking | 15:55 |
| zodbot | adamw fires tflink again: nitpicking | 15:56 |
| halfline | since it's not an X session, and since display managers need special handling to support it | 15:56 |
| adamw | halfline: yeah, there are tools/docs which assume anything there is a perfectly normal X session, i think. | 15:56 |
| adamw | any other criteria changes required? i can't think of any | 15:58 |
| * adamw should check if anything needs changing for arm/cloud | 15:58 | |
| tflink | requiring optical boot @ beta | 15:58 |
| tflink | but we already covered that | 15:58 |
| adamw | #action adamw to check if any further criteria changes are needed to beta/final for arm/cloud | 15:58 |
| adamw | tflink: it already *does*, the only necessary change is to the 'explanatory text' | 15:58 |
| adamw | but that's not critical | 15:58 |
| halfline | adamw: okay i got gnome release-team approval to change that before 3.10 today | 16:00 |
| adamw | cool | 16:01 |
| adamw | okay then, we're over time, so a quick: | 16:01 |
| adamw | #topic Open floor | 16:01 |
| Viking-Ice | so the cloud testing for beta is it solid this time or will we be experiencing those hickups as we did during alpha | 16:01 |
| adamw | any other business? | 16:01 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: depends on if we do the testing, I imagine | 16:02 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: well i asked earlier if there was anything we needed to change based on arm/cloud experiences for alpha and no-one had any suggestions... | 16:02 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, well it's up to the cloud community to do the testing | 16:02 |
| tflink | in theory, yes | 16:02 |
| tflink | in practice, though? | 16:02 |
| Viking-Ice | yes | 16:02 |
| tflink | I don't remember them ever helping out with testing unless someone specifically asked for it on cloud@ | 16:03 |
| Viking-Ice | sub community in general should do their testing | 16:03 |
| tflink | s/ever/ever helping out with much/ | 16:03 |
| tflink | sure, but you also used the "s word" | 16:03 |
| adamw | well, maybe we need a better process for pulling them into testing | 16:03 |
| Viking-Ice | and I thought robin was working on granting access to people | 16:03 |
| tflink | I really don't think access was the problem | 16:04 |
| tflink | at full price, an hour with a micro instance is USD 0.20 | 16:04 |
| adamw | tflink: your substitution skills suck | 16:04 |
| tflink | s/0.20/0.02 | 16:04 |
| adamw | tflink: plus the barrier of 'i have to give amazon my visa card so i can test this thing?' | 16:04 |
| tflink | adamw: or I'm just lazy :) | 16:04 |
| tflink | true, I already have it set up for other things | 16:05 |
| Viking-Ice | why on earth did we approve something to be release blocking while it has a prize tag on it <sigh> | 16:05 |
| tflink | amazon isn't the only way to test for criterion violation | 16:05 |
| tflink | it's just the easiest | 16:05 |
| tflink | the way that the crition is worded, it just needs to work with xen | 16:06 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, dont we already have virtualsation criteria that covers xen ( as well as kvm ) | 16:06 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: there is a separate cloud requrement | 16:06 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, is that due to adamw "Recommending kvm" | 16:06 |
| tflink | unrelated | 16:07 |
| tflink | xen DomO is not a release blocking issue | 16:07 |
| Viking-Ice | we should just have one criteria that covers "all virtual" | 16:07 |
| tflink | no, we shouldn't | 16:07 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: then we're on the hook for vbox, which we don't want to be. | 16:07 |
| adamw | and we want to support only domU for xen, but both host and guest for KVM. | 16:07 |
| tflink | vbox, vmware, hyperv ... | 16:07 |
| adamw | er, 'block on', not 'support'. | 16:08 |
| Viking-Ice | adamw, arent we playing that game with amazon | 16:08 |
| adamw | playing what game? | 16:08 |
| tflink | the most common virtualization for cloud is kvm and xen | 16:08 |
| Viking-Ice | the support | 16:08 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: EC2 is xen. | 16:08 |
| tflink | so is rackspace | 16:08 |
| Viking-Ice | and so our virtualsation should cover xen/kvm | 16:08 |
| adamw | we agreed EC2 would be a 'blocking platform' for f20 cloud stuff because, basically, the world and their mom runs stuff in ec2 | 16:09 |
| Viking-Ice | and infra should set up host internally to test that stuff | 16:09 |
| adamw | it's kind of a practical choice | 16:09 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: it does | 16:09 |
| Viking-Ice | not really far from it actually practical for rhel I suppose | 16:09 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: and they are. it's just that it'd be nice to check everything works as intended in the exact amazon ec2 configuration so you can just click the AMI or whatever and be done | 16:09 |
| adamw | that's one of the main goals of the whole 'first class cloud' thing | 16:09 |
| Viking-Ice | I dont mind first class cloud thing as we host and test it privately as in our infrastructure on a fedora host | 16:10 |
| tflink | bring it up with fesco | 16:10 |
| Viking-Ice | lol no thank you sure | 16:11 |
| Viking-Ice | mean sir | 16:11 |
| tflink | that's where the first class cloud stuff came from | 16:11 |
| tflink | well, the feature process | 16:11 |
| Viking-Ice | ah I see that explains it | 16:11 |
| tflink | it is a feature for f20, IIRC | 16:12 |
| adamw | Viking-Ice: it's kind of a 'map is not the territory' thing | 16:12 |
| Viking-Ice | bottom line gnome sig is also result from fesco decision making | 16:12 |
| adamw | what we're trying to ensure is 'you can just click a button and up pops f20 in ec2' | 16:12 |
| adamw | the only way you can really test that reliably is *to test it in ec2* | 16:12 |
| adamw | we can never guarantee that we have a perfect internal copy of ec2 or something | 16:12 |
| Viking-Ice | which brings us back to what the cloud sig should be doing | 16:12 |
| tflink | and using the s-word again | 16:13 |
| Viking-Ice | but making it release blocking is arguably questionable | 16:13 |
| adamw | like i said, perhaps the thing we should be aiming for is to have a more robust process for getting the cloud sig involved in validation testing | 16:13 |
| adamw | did we do anything specific down that line for alpha? or just trust that they'd follow along? | 16:13 |
| Viking-Ice | well we did ping them ( and them being matt ) | 16:13 |
| tflink | they said they did testing, and we believed it until I found the x32 image to be DOA | 16:14 |
| tflink | we can try pestering them on cloud@ more | 16:14 |
| Viking-Ice | in the end of the day this is their "product" and their responsibility and if it fails to shine on amazon then it's their fault | 16:15 |
| Viking-Ice | to be blunt | 16:15 |
| tflink | sure but we still look bad | 16:15 |
| Viking-Ice | no they look bad | 16:15 |
| Viking-Ice | the only time we look bad as a project is when we have "defaults" that look bad | 16:16 |
| adamw | anyhow | 16:16 |
| tflink | because your average ec2 user isn't going to say "fedora sucks on the cloud, they can't test this stuff" | 16:16 |
| adamw | we're 16 minutes over at this point | 16:16 |
| adamw | i think we got the juice out | 16:16 |
| tflink | probably not, but we're getting into flamewar territory :) | 16:16 |
| tflink | yep | 16:16 |
| adamw | #info we should look at ways to tie cloud SIG into validation testing more closely and verify their work | 16:16 |
| adamw | were they actually filing bogus entries in the matrices? or were they just saying 'yeah sure, we tested that'? | 16:17 |
| tflink | the latter | 16:17 |
| Viking-Ice | well we see who get's the blame when Gnome removes the middle mouse click paste Fedora or Gnome ( default or not ) | 16:17 |
| tflink | i didn't think that was on purpose, was it? | 16:17 |
| adamw | it was on purpose, yeah. just a little premature. | 16:18 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, it's going to be | 16:18 |
| adamw | but i'd say it'd be gnome that gets the blame :P | 16:18 |
| adamw | buty we're definitely off topic now | 16:18 |
| * adamw sets quantum fuse | 16:18 | |
| tflink | I'd ask why they removed it, but I know better | 16:18 |
| Viking-Ice | tflink, I spent 1 and half our watching the designer and developers arguing before I gave up. it felt like watching highlander 2 all over again and literally knew I those minutes of my life I would not get back so yeah one know better | 16:19 |
| adamw | tflink: i think the idea is to use middle-click for something shinier and more modern, but my eyes kinda glazed over at some point. | 16:20 |
| tflink | Viking-Ice: yeah, that sounds like what I expected | 16:20 |
| * roshi didn't even know his scroll wheel button *ever* did anything useful | 16:21 | |
| Viking-Ice | and you have been using linux for how long again? | 16:21 |
| roshi | how did I not know this? It's useful | 16:21 |
| adamw | roshi: wait, you didn't know that? | 16:21 |
| roshi | well - I try to not use a mouse if I can help it | 16:21 |
| adamw | .fire roshi insufficient geekiness | 16:21 |
| zodbot | adamw fires roshi insufficient geekiness | 16:21 |
| roshi | and there it is! | 16:22 |
| adamw | alright, thanks for coming folks | 16:22 |
| adamw | #endmeeting | 16:22 |
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